Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 51 to 65 of 65
  1. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Rebel66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    67
    Both frames look BADASS! If I can ever pull myself away from my El Com hardtails the El Rey will be my first choice for suspention.

  2. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: slowrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,691
    Specific to Slowrider, 2010 15" Ciclon shows 29.4" SO, with 2" tires. 2011 15" Ciclon is 28.9" SO with 2.3" tires! on paper it's an improvement of a 1/2" and if you ran 2.3 tires on the 2010, it would be closer to 3/4" improvement. And the 2010 HAD the straight tube!


    Ventana may have gained standover but look where they measured it from, looks too close to the seat tube to be a usefull number; look again at the top of the top tube and imagine a straight tube, using one would gain even more clearence. I'm 5'6" with a 27 1/2" inseam which is why it matters, not to mention I still don't like the look nor do I see a structural benifit so it seems to me to be an astetic element that misses it's mark. I, with my short legs could understand a dip in the top tube to gain clearence but the arch seems to have little benifit. I have high hopes for the suspension mods though.

  3. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    76

    New Design

    From the initial Ciclon drawings, I too am not a fan. The good news is that Sherwood will happily build you a frame using the old design at what appears to be the historical trade in pricing.

    If your willing to part with extra $, there's always the opportunity to modify the old design to incorporate some of the newer improvements (tapered headtube, etc).

  4. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zonoskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    912
    You mean with the toptube like this? You'd have a lower standover height, but where do you put a drink bottle?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ventana Website is updated!-el-rey-2011-geometry3.gif  


  5. #55
    Ultra Ventanaphile
    Reputation: Ciclistagonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    3,137
    Quote Originally Posted by slowrider
    Specific to Slowrider, 2010 15" Ciclon shows 29.4" SO, with 2" tires. 2011 15" Ciclon is 28.9" SO with 2.3" tires! on paper it's an improvement of a 1/2" and if you ran 2.3 tires on the 2010, it would be closer to 3/4" improvement. And the 2010 HAD the straight tube!


    Ventana may have gained standover but look where they measured it from, looks too close to the seat tube to be a usefull number; look again at the top of the top tube and imagine a straight tube, using one would gain even more clearence. I'm 5'6" with a 27 1/2" inseam which is why it matters, not to mention I still don't like the look nor do I see a structural benifit so it seems to me to be an astetic element that misses it's mark. I, with my short legs could understand a dip in the top tube to gain clearence but the arch seems to have little benifit. I have high hopes for the suspension mods though.

    I appreciate your concern, especially with a 27 1/2" inseam. Custom is an option because, as the saying goes.... you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time...
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  6. #56
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
    Reputation: mtnbiker4life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    I appreciate your concern, especially with a 27 1/2" inseam. Custom is an option because, as the saying goes.... you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time...
    I agree. This thread is starting to sound like a typical thread in the Turner forum.....design by committee.

  7. #57
    Not dead yet, just playin
    Reputation: ohpossum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    910
    I'll miss the machined one piece BB+Lower-Shock-Mount. That was one of the things that caught my eye way back when I was looking for a new frame. I'm sure the "new" BB (as seen in the racing Fuego) is lighter and just as strong, but not nearly as sexy..

    op
    www.msmtb.org - Mississippi Mountain Biking

  8. #58
    T , V , & K Rider
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    2,339
    Meh , this info means nothing to me until we actually see the finished product ( frame in the raw) ! Hope to read some ride reviews from Sea Otter and see some built up new Ventana pictures.......please ! TIG.
    Last edited by TIGMAN; 04-08-2011 at 05:03 PM.

  9. #59
    Axe
    Axe is offline
    Custom User Title
    Reputation: Axe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,550
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    ...design by committee.
    Otherwise known as customer feedback.

  10. #60
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
    Reputation: mtnbiker4life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Axe
    Otherwise known as customer feedback.
    If I changed my designs based on every customer's needs, wants or whines.......I would have triple digit revision letters and it would be a paperwork nightmare. I think Sherwood meets the customer needs by offering a custom program where Turner can't because they do not have onsite mfg.

  11. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation: slowrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,691

    On my back

    I dont use bottles, I've seen one bottle mount on 13.5" frames without the camel hump.
    Quote Originally Posted by zonoskar
    You mean with the toptube like this? You'd have a lower standover height, but where do you put a drink bottle?

  12. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation: slowrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,691

    I could go custom

    But it would be interesting to find out what was gained by arching the top tube, if it's a simple visual element then I don't understand why you wouldn't use a cheaper, better looking, lower standover straight tube over an expensively hydroformed, standover compromising arched tube. If you gain 30% strength over a straight tube I'd understand using the arched tube if Ventana top tubes were famous for being weak but I don't believe thats an issue. It's just a drawing. maybe it'll look right in person. So how long before the test rides comence?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    I appreciate your concern, especially with a 27 1/2" inseam. Custom is an option because, as the saying goes.... you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time...

  13. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: slowrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,691

    Not quite what I'm thinking

    Take the drawing of the new El Rey, hold a straight edge at the up of the welds on both ends of the top tube. You'll notice that in the area that a short persons junk will be sitting while straddling the bike that allmost the entire arched tube will be above the theoretical straight tub tube. In other words keep the new frames point of weld using a straight top tube. Like I said I'll reserve full judgement until Ive demoed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by zonoskar
    Standover is reduced with the toptube like Sherwood designed it. If you'd have a straight TT, you'd get something like this (don't mind my paint skills). It looks better IMHO, but with a larger standover height. I left the pointer to the original standover height in the picture.

  14. #64
    CEO Product Failure
    Reputation: bingemtbr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    710
    Looks familiar...


  15. #65
    Ultra Ventanaphile
    Reputation: Ciclistagonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    3,137
    Quote Originally Posted by slowrider
    Take the drawing of the new El Rey, hold a straight edge at the up of the welds on both ends of the top tube. You'll notice that in the area that a short persons junk will be sitting while straddling the bike that allmost the entire arched tube will be above the theoretical straight tub tube. In other words keep the new frames point of weld using a straight top tube. Like I said I'll reserve full judgement until Ive demoed it.
    AH! I get what you're saying... But, Can't do that as the bottom of the tube would get in the way of the upper shock pivot. SOOO drawing Zo made is closer to realistic.

    The arc in the TT is what allows the lower placerment of the TT along the Seat tube.

    -A
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •