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  1. #1
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    Thoughts on a full coil El Tigre and other changes

    Today was my first ride on El Tigre (X-5 with El Ciclon jig) with DHX Coil (Push'd of course), and with the Lyrik U-turn. First thing I noticed: the bike is heavy , but I have no idea what the new weight is. I still can't put it on my roof but that's more due to broken wrist recovery than anything else.

    Second thing I noticed: dang, the rear shock is as plush as the front. This was on the initial downhill .5 mile section, and it was still handling well. However, it didn't feel as rough as going down with the RP23 (Push'd also).

    I did think that I would feel the different on the climbs, being sluggish with the coil and snappy with the air. Matter of fact, it was the complete opposite! I was able to climb better because the rear wheel was far more responsive and able to roll over uphills at will. The only thing holding it back was the rider (no surprise there).

    Weight turned out to be a moot point. It doesn't matter what the weight of the bike is (except that dang rotational part), but having a plush ride definitely makes it more enjoyable.

    Turning is improved, but I don't think that's related to the shocks, more related to the new handlebar with more sweep. I also added ergo grips and replaced my dead X9s with a set of X0s (good for reduced range of motion in bad wrist anyway).

    Why I didn't go with the CCDB: I'm not really great with tuning my shocks, and I didn't feel like farting around with it. I'm very happy with my choice, and I can't wait to try it on a downhill ride.

    I do need to do some fine tuning with the Lyrik. Even though the rebound is on full fast, it still takes a while to return to full extension. Not sure what else I need to mess with (I usually run the fork at 145, but will lower it to 130 on extended climbs and raise it to 165 on steeper stuff).

    Specs:
    El Tigre 13" frame
    Color: blue superdust
    Fork: Black Lyrik U-turn (2007)
    Shock: 7.87 x 2in Push'd DHX coil (2008)
    Wheels: 321 Mavic, double gage with Chris King hubs
    Headset: Chris King Nothreadset (2003)
    Stem: 90mm, 5 degree rise Thompson
    Handlebar: Full On Handlebar, black, 1.5 inch rise, 28in width
    Grips: small hand Ergos
    Drivetrain: X.0 shifters and rear derailleur, LX front derailleur, 12-34 SRAM rear cassette
    Crankset: Race Face Atlas, 36/24, Gamut chain guard
    Brakes: Magura Martas (2003)
    Pedals: Shimano PD-M647
    Tires: Kenda Nevagals
    Seatpost: Gravity Dropper 3in/1in
    Saddle: Women's Specialized saddle



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  2. #2
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes
    I do need to do some fine tuning with the Lyrik. Even though the rebound is on full fast, it still takes a while to return to full extension. Not sure what else I need to mess with (I usually run the fork at 145, but will lower it to 130 on extended climbs and raise it to 165 on steeper stuff).
    Bike's looking good Stripes

    Your Lyrik should feel wicked fast with the rebound wide open. I run mine at about 75% open. Maybe do an oil change up front.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Bike's looking good Stripes

    Your Lyrik should feel wicked fast with the rebound wide open. I run mine at about 75% open. Maybe do an oil change up front.
    Thanks Squeaky. Any particular oil or weight you recommend?
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  4. #4
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    Looks great...welcome to the full coil Ventana greatness.

  5. #5
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes
    Thanks Squeaky. Any particular oil or weight you recommend?
    Honestly, I don't know. Push handles that for me.
    I'd check the RockShox website and use whatever they recommend

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Honestly, I don't know. Push handles that for me.
    I'd check the RockShox website and use whatever they recommend
    I'm pretty sure the only oil Darren uses is Torco RFF 7.5wt.
    Astigmatic Visionary

  7. #7
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    I'm pretty sure the only oil Darren uses is Torco RFF 7.5wt.
    Depends on the application. They use 5,7,10,15 & 20. (doesn't come in 7.5)

    Off the top of my head I don't know what they use in a lyrik and I don't know if they use different fluids for rider weights, intended purpose, etc.

  8. #8
    Homer's problem child
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Depends on the application. They use 5,7,10,15 & 20. (doesn't come in 7.5)

    Off the top of my head I don't know what they use in a lyrik and I don't know if they use different fluids for rider weights, intended purpose, etc.
    RS Mission Control spec for oil in the Lyrik is:

    Right Leg (Damper): 112 cc's +/- 3 cc of [SIZE="5"]5 WT OIL[/SIZE] in the damper, 15 cc's of [SIZE="5"]15 WT OIL[/SIZE] in the leg.

    Left Leg (Spring): 15 cc's of 15 WT OIL in the leg.

    Just for reference, 1 cc = 1 ml, lots of manuals use both units to confuse some people.

    Any more questions I'd be happy to try to help.

    The Lyrik is one of the easiest forks to re-build, as RS's have always been, but I was suprised how simple the Mission Control damper assembly is. Espeically when I pulled apart a Z1 Light for a similar re-build right after it.

    B
    Last edited by Bortis Yelltzen; 11-26-2007 at 05:22 PM.
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  9. #9
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    The Lyrik is one of the easiest forks to re-build, as RS's have always been, but I was suprised how simple the Motion Control damper assembly is.
    I think you meant mission control

  10. #10
    Homer's problem child
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I think you meant mission control
    I meant to say what you said I meant to say.

    Above post edited.

    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  11. #11
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Looks as good as it rides......I bet

    One thing I noticed when changing from an 1990 Yamaha FZ600 to a Honda CBR 1000rr.......is it took me some time to actually build up the skills to ride the bike to the level it was designed to be ridden....There is a big difference between 74.5 HP @10750 rpm and 178 HP @ 12000 rpm.......thus I am sure it will take you time to actually push this set up to it's limits.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    One thing I noticed when changing from an 1990 Yamaha FZ600 to a Honda CBR 1000rr.......is it took me some time to actually build up the skills to ride the bike to the level it was designed to be ridden....There is a big difference between 74.5 HP @10750 rpm and 178 HP @ 12000 rpm.......thus I am sure it will take you time to actually push this set up to it's limits.
    Oh yeah, it'll definitely take a while before I have the skills and confidence to ride it at the level it can take.

    The coil is night and day difference with the air shocks. I'm really surprised, and very very happy with it. I can't wait to ride it on more technical trails.
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  13. #13
    No known cure
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes
    Oh yeah, it'll definitely take a while before I have the skills and confidence to ride it at the level it can take.

    The coil is night and day difference with the air shocks. I'm really surprised, and very very happy with it. I can't wait to ride it on more technical trails.
    Are you using the stock spring weight? I found that with the Push service, I could drop down quite a bit. I weigh 185 with gear and water, and went from the stock 650#'s the bike was shipped with, to 450#'s, without noticing any bottoming. I don't huck, but do search out fast D'ville type terrain.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    Are you using the stock spring weight? I found that with the Push service, I could drop down quite a bit. I weigh 185 with gear and water, and went from the stock 650#'s the bike was shipped with, to 450#'s, without noticing any bottoming. I don't huck, but do search out fast D'ville type terrain.
    The DHX Coil is Push'd, but the Lyrik is not as there is no Push service for it.

    The Lyrik what I'm having problems with as far as return rate.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes
    The DHX Coil is Push'd, but the Lyrik is not as there is no Push service for it.

    The Lyrik what I'm having problems with as far as return rate.

    I was suggesting you may want to experiment with the rear shock's spring weight. Push's platform valving seems to help hold the shock up, allowing the use of a lighter spring. YMMV of course.

    I've never owned a RS product so I can't comment on the Lyrik. Sorry.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  16. #16
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    I was suggesting you may want to experiment with the rear shock's spring weight. Push's platform valving seems to help hold the shock up, allowing the use of a lighter spring. YMMV of course.

    I've never owned a RS product so I can't comment on the Lyrik. Sorry.
    Glad that you were able to drop your spring rate, but the Push tune really doesn't affect preload.

    In fact, Terremoto's rate falls at end-stroke and the increased through-travel of the Push'd DHX resulted in me feeling bottom more often compared to the stock DHX and I went up 50lbs on my spring.

    I don't know what happens on the X-5 or other models.

  17. #17
    Team Chilidog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    Any more questions I'd be happy to try to help.

    The Lyrik is one of the easiest forks to re-build, as RS's have always been, but I was suprised how simple the Mission Control damper assembly is. Espeically when I pulled apart a Z1 Light for a similar re-build right after it.

    B
    Thanks B

    El Tigre is at the LBS now, with their local shock specialist (a friend of mine), and it's going to have the oil replaced for me by Thursday. He did say that it feels like the compression's set correctly, but it shouldn't feel that way full fast.

    I'll let you know what changes he makes. Thanks for the suggestion
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  18. #18
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    Ride Report

    Dang, it's like someone added an 3 inches of suspension from my bike. I didn't realize how hard you have to hit an air shock to make it activate. The RP23 made El Tigre feel like a hardtail, where the Coil Lyrik/DHX Coil combo made riding everything easy.

    Given that air shock compress exponentially and coil compress linearly, doesn't that mean you actually don't use all the travel in the air shocks? No wonder why people are going with 6, 7, 8 inches of travel. On a coil, 5 feels perfect for me because I'm actually using the suspension.

    Every bump that used to be very jarring (even when the air shocks were setup really plush) is just something the bike rolls right over. This is something my wrists really appreciate.

    And, of course, a pic

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