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  1. #1
    Team Chilidog!
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    Thinking of new brakes for El Tigre..

    I have Maguar Martas from 2003 that I'm thinking of moving to the steel hardtail (so I can get rid of the Juicys, don't like 'em). So, I was thinking of replacing 'em with possibly Hope M4s (I run a 7in rotor in front, 6" in the rear), so I'm curious to what you would suggest for those who run either M4s or other types on their El Ciclons or X-5s. This would be for XC as well as some light DH use.

    I have a Lyrik coil in the front. Not sure if that affects brake choice at all. Being able to modulate the brakes and levers is definitely key as I have too much scar tissue in my right hand to squeeze too hard. Thanks!
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  2. #2
    Ultra Ventanaphile
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    Ventana+Lyrik+M4=Love....
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    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  3. #3
    Team Fearless Descender
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    I must say that for one, I love the HOPEís. Iíve got HOPEís on three bikes. Miniís on my wifeís Santa Cruz Superlite. They are the fist generation of the Mini and have been very good. Took some dialing in (this was several years ago now Ė time flys), as they were noisy at first. 160mm in back, 180mm? in front. On my El Salt, M4ís front and back. 160mm in back, 200mm in front (maybe too big actually). These have been flawless. On my Terremoto, HOPE Motoís, 203mm front and back (too big in back for sure, but I was going for the ďblingĒ) with ventilated rotors. Here again, flawless.

    I do everything, except building wheels, on all of my Mtn, and road bikes, so I appreciate the beauty of these brakes and the ease of working on them. Iíve recently worked on a friends YETI 575 with Hayes brakes (installing Goodridge hoses), re-bleeding. Very nice brake, but not quite HOPEís. I know you like the nice stuff on your El Tigre, so Iím sure youíd appreciate the HOPEís.

    Anyway, my vote is for the M4's.
    .
    "...when your ride is nearly over, it seems to have lasted but an instant..."


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  4. #4
    Bodhisattva
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    Hopes are the next best thing to Formulas
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  5. #5
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    Hopes are the next best thing to Formulas
    What he said. I'd suggest a hard look.
    I figure the odds be fifty-fifty.

  6. #6
    T , V , & K Rider
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    Heard excellent stuff about the Formulas.............however , I've been very pleased with the Hope M4's ! TIG.

  7. #7
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    Another vote for the Formula's. Oro K18, K24, and Puro should all fit you prupose. K24 and Puro will give a bit more adjustability. All should offer enough power.

  8. #8
    Bodhisattva
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    Ventanarama has been a Hope die-hard for years.

    He just replaced his M4s with Formula ONES and isn't looking back. Told me the ONES blow away the m4s and he downsized from M4 8"/7" rotors to Formula 7"/6" and says they are still more powerful.

    I have Formula Biancos on the Terremoto, Formula K24s on the Sultan and Hope Mono Minis on the SS. My minis will be up for sale shortly.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  9. #9
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    I run the Avid BB7 7"F/6"R on the Ciclon............perfect power and simplicity. No bling status...... But then again the only time I use my brakes is to slow down for slower riders I run up on...........

  10. #10
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    Formula K-24s.

    End of story.

    D.

  11. #11
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    Hm. Maggie Louise FRs on my X-5--no bling but damn great brakes. I have the Hope mini-monos on my Moots... good, but not great.

  12. #12
    011100000110111101101111
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    love the formula k24s. i would def get them again. and again. and again.
    maybe i'd spring for the new offerings.. like the One.

    lever feel is
    they look
    CS is

    Stripes, I have the k24s on my t'moto 7"/8", so you can try em out if u want to organize a Skeggs or Stanford urban ride.

  13. #13
    Team Chilidog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by unfluid one
    love the formula k24s. i would def get them again. and again. and again.
    maybe i'd spring for the new offerings.. like the One.

    lever feel is
    they look
    CS is

    Stripes, I have the k24s on my t'moto 7"/8", so you can try em out if u want to organize a Skeggs or Stanford urban ride.
    I'll be at Saratoga Gap at 2pm leading a slow ride if you can make it. I'd love to check 'em out.
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  14. #14
    Team Chilidog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by P Fradale
    Hm. Maggie Louise FRs on my X-5--no bling but damn great brakes. I have the Hope mini-monos on my Moots... good, but not great.
    I've heard mixed things about the minis. I don't think they'll give me the stopping power I want.

    I like my Magura Martas, but they don't seem to give me the braking power I want, so they're going on my hardtail (an On-One 456).
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  15. #15
    Team Chilidog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Rock
    Formula K-24s.

    End of story.

    D.
    D., since I trust you , I do, but I still have to question everything.. I'm looking at comparing the M4s and K-24s. And what's the difference between the M4s and mono M4s and the K-24s and the Puros? The descriptions aren't really clear, nor are the websites (mebbe I'm just tired).

    Seriously, here are my considerations I need to look at for both:
    - Stopping power (K-24s seem to be the top here)
    - Adjustability (I need a short reach)?
    - Modulation?
    - Frequency to bleed?
    - Easieness of bleed process?
    - Pads wearing frequency (I hope that made sense)? Best recommended pad for each?
    - Squeakiness (this is why Shimanos aren't on the list, ugh)?
    - Warping of rotors? Overheating issues?
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  16. #16
    011100000110111101101111
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes
    I'll be at Saratoga Gap at 2pm leading a slow ride if you can make it. I'd love to check 'em out.
    what day?
    I'm in santa cruz (wine tasting.. not riding unfortunately) on saturday, and doing a demo ride at waterdog on sunday.

  17. #17
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes
    - Squeakiness (this is why Shimanos aren't on the list, ugh)?
    hey..I run only shimanos

    but yeah I agree...that you have to pay attention to caliper alignment to get them completely silent.... mine make noise mostly when wet...or when I ride the brakes too much

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by unfluid one
    what day?
    I'm in santa cruz (wine tasting.. not riding unfortunately) on saturday, and doing a demo ride at waterdog on sunday.
    Sunday. I'm leaning towards the K-24s right now. What type of adapter would I need with the 7in rotors and Lyrik?
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  19. #19
    ajr
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    Magura Louise gets my vote.

  20. #20
    Team Chilidog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajr
    Magura Louise gets my vote.
    As much as I like my Martas, they have to be bled more than I'd like, and this is even witht the goodrich metal braided lines.

    - Stopping power
    - Adjustability (I need a short reach)?
    - Modulation?
    - Frequency to bleed?
    - Easieness of bleed process?
    - Pads wearing frequency (I hope that made sense)? Best recommended pad?
    - Squeakiness?
    - Warping of rotors? Overheating issues?
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  21. #21
    011100000110111101101111
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes
    Sunday. I'm leaning towards the K-24s right now. What type of adapter would I need with the 7in rotors and Lyrik?
    best to ask the formula boys (they respond to emails quick), or larry / chad.
    i'm sure someone else can respond from this forum though.

    i have the louise BATs on my hardtail... absolutely love their CS, but think they're ugly lookin, and to get the top end power, you have to squeeze a bit further after the pad contact.
    I like my brakes to hit the power quicker (k24). but ppl like different things from their brakes.
    Their lever movement is buttery though! fluffy and smooth! like rolling on abec 7 bearings

  22. #22
    Shot Down in Flames...
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes
    D., since I trust you , I do, but I still have to question everything.. I'm looking at comparing the M4s and K-24s. And what's the difference between the M4s and
    mono M4s and the K-24s and the Puros? The descriptions aren't really clear, nor are the websites (mebbe I'm just tired).

    Seriously, here are my considerations I need to look at for both:
    - Stopping power (K-24s seem to be the top here) Ridiculous strongest brake I've ever tried.
    - Adjustability (I need a short reach)? Easy peasy
    - Modulation? Fantastic
    - Frequency to bleed? I've had my 1st set for almost 2 years and never had to bleed them.
    - Easieness of bleed process? Easy, it's the same process/fittings as the Avid Juicy
    - Pads wearing frequency (I hope that made sense)? Best recommended pad for each? I like the organics.
    - Squeakiness (this is why Shimanos aren't on the list, ugh)? Dead quiet
    - Warping of rotors? Overheating issues? none for me.


    YMMV,
    D

  23. #23
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by unfluid one
    best to ask the formula boys (they respond to emails quick), or larry / chad.
    i'm sure someone else can respond from this forum though.

    i have the louise BATs on my hardtail... absolutely love their CS, but think they're ugly lookin, and to get the top end power, you have to squeeze a bit further after the pad contact.
    I like my brakes to hit the power quicker (k24). but ppl like different things from their brakes.
    Their lever movement is buttery though! fluffy and soft!
    Formula makes the appropriate postmount adaptors for Lyrik. Just specify what size & which fork when you order. It's a no-brainer.

    Stripes, if stopping power is what you crave then think about spending a few extra bucks for the Formula Biancos which have the more aggressive sintered pads and the (at least to me) better lever.

    I own both Biancos & K24s and have essentially turned my K24s into Biancos by replacing the pads & levers. The difference in pad compound is noticeable and I highly doubt you'd require more than 7"f/6"r

    I was a Magura Cultster for a number of years but I don't think their newer offerings stand toe-to-toe with Formula.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  24. #24
    Team Chilidog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Rock
    - Stopping power (K-24s seem to be the top here) Ridiculous strongest brake I've ever tried.
    - Adjustability (I need a short reach)? Easy peasy
    - Modulation? Fantastic
    - Frequency to bleed? I've had my 1st set for almost 2 years and never had to bleed them.
    - Easieness of bleed process? Easy, it's the same process/fittings as the Avid Juicy
    - Pads wearing frequency (I hope that made sense)? Best recommended pad for each? I like the organics.
    - Squeakiness (this is why Shimanos aren't on the list, ugh)? Dead quiet
    - Warping of rotors? Overheating issues? none for me.


    YMMV,
    D
    Which bike are you running them on? I'm not sure if I need an adapter to run this on a 7" front/6" rear with a Lyrik on the front.
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  25. #25
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes
    Which bike are you running them on? I'm not sure if I need an adapter to run this on a 7" front/6" rear with a Lyrik on the front.
    Yes you do.
    Here's mine.
    I posted a reply below for more detail.



    Life....the original terminal illness

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