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  1. #1
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    So why didn't you just buy a Kona or a Turner ?

    Seeing that they are the same ?

    http://www.singletrackworld.com/foru...4531&t=3534531

    thats why I come over here.....

  2. #2
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    yeah..tough crowd at STW....

  3. #3
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    You can run but you can't hide Justa!

  4. #4
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    I guess no one there really understands how similar designs can be made to feel different. Neither of the three tunes or tests their bikes to ride the same. They optimize for different test trails and riding types.

    Meanwhile, I'm sure every single one of them has chosen a car that was similar to ones made by other manufacturers, in the same class, and with likely similar suspensions, because it rode better.

    BMW uses struts on almost everything it makes.

  5. #5
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    Sounds like Foxy Boy has his balls in a knot...he probably rides a "S" bike

  6. #6
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    hadge - wot you doing on here

    get over there ---------> to the Yeti forum

  7. #7
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    I read that as well Justa, maybe your reply should have read


    'Because gentlemen it's NOT a Ventana' Nuff said.

    Went riding with Alan round Llandegla on Saturday, bloody hell he climbs like a whippet!

    and now i've sold my Big Hit, a new X5 should be on it's way.


    can't wait.

  8. #8
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    I'm everywhere The only one of the "Boutique" bikes I've not ridden (owned) is the Ventana but I can comment with some experience about the Yeti 575 (current), Intense 5.5, Turner 5 Spot and Santa Cruz Blur as I've owned them all and ridden them for many many a mile. From what I can see there are a lot of similarities in the Ventana and the Turner but I'd love to try one long term to see how it really compares. For my type of riding - fast XC stuff the Yeti is proving a superb bike but of the others the Turner runs it extremely close, as doe's the Intense. The Blur is way behind but it all comes down to geometry and it's too XC for me. The suspension works superbly which is why I had the Intense next and that has a more "relaxed" front end and feels like it's on rails at times. But the 5.5 doesn't suit our British weather which is why I bought the Turner and had them both at the same time. I built the Turner up more "burly" as it had a DHX Coil with ti spring and FOX Van 32 forks but it felt so plush it was amazing. But - it came in at over 30lb and I wanted a lighter bike and when Yeti brought out the new 08 575 I plumbed for one of those.

    I'm hoping the 575 has all the best "all-weather" capability of the Turner plus the "excitement" that the Intense gave when ridden hard. So far it has so I'm very happy. Whether the Ventana also has those qualities I couldn't say but I certainly wouldn't say no to owning one and they certainly aren't a posh Kona.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by vortexracing
    I read that as well Justa, maybe your reply should have read


    'Because gentlemen it's NOT a Ventana' Nuff said.

    Went riding with Alan round Llandegla on Saturday, bloody hell he climbs like a whippet!

    and now i've sold my Big Hit, a new X5 should be on it's way.


    can't wait.
    Pics when it arrives !!!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by justa
    Seeing that they are the same ?

    http://www.singletrackworld.com/foru...4531&t=3534531

    thats why I come over here.....
    No quad bearings, custom fabrication, or bushings...

  11. #11
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    simplest reason of all. because if I had bought another bike I would still have wanted a ventana. I would never stop thinking about a ventana and would end up getting one someday anyway. so rather than waste money on a bike I didn't really want in the first place, I just bit the bullet on the extra expense and got what I really wanted.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihatemywife
    simplest reason of all. because if I had bought another bike I would still have wanted a ventana. I would never stop thinking about a ventana and would end up getting one someday anyway. so rather than waste money on a bike I didn't really want in the first place, I just bit the bullet on the extra expense and got what I really wanted.
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  13. #13
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    Ventana has full suspension tandems, duh.

  14. #14
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    I owned a Turner, and "borrowed" two Konas long enough to make up my mind. No disrespect to DT, but Sherwood knows WTF he's doing.

    I own 4 Ventanas and had a Sherwood designed Psycle Werks before. You either get it or you don't.


    D.

  15. #15
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    Because they make the Fuego.
    Because it fits.

    Because it's a bike that I'll be able to grow into (not size, ability) for quite a while.

    Because - I wanted it.

    I've ridden a variety of 'other' duallies. From cheap Diamondback's, Specialized's, Rocky's, Jamis and a few others. Even the Santa Cruz I had for a day - they were all close... but I didn't want close - I wanted the right one.

    JmZ
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by justa
    Seeing that they are the same ?
    That link was funny.

    I owned two Turners, but wanted a 29er hardtail, and a 29er that actually fit me without resulting in a too short a seattube. Ventana fit the bill perfectly. The craftsmanship of the frame was just icing on the cake. Turner makes great bikes, but they don't fit me and my shorter TT requirement. And I'm not running a mile of seatpost on my bikes. (edit: Ventana 29ers fit me better, 26ers are a tossup between Tuner and Ventana)

    Oddly, I have been looking for a 6" travel frame, and looked at a number of choices: Knolly, Turner, Transition . . . but I still find that the Ventanas fit me best. But who knows, I will probably settle for the El Bastardo. I wonder if Sherwood could do one up with Terremoto tubing

    Kona: Great coffee, not so great bikes.
    Last edited by Random Drivel; 03-27-2008 at 05:58 AM.

  17. #17
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    This isn't really an interesting thread per se, but some interesting comments were brought up about shorter TT length with the Ventana bikes - is that because y'all (Random Drivel & stripes) had custom geo built? Comparing it to the Spot the TT length looks about the same to me...

  18. #18
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    Speaking of top tubes. I neglected to mention one of the main reasons I own Ventanas, custom geometry. My 17" HTs have 24" TTs and my 18" Salty has 23.7". Try finding that on stock geometry.


    D.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristatos
    some interesting comments were brought up about shorter TT length with the Ventana bikes - is that because y'all (Random Drivel & stripes) had custom geo built? Comparing it to the Spot the TT length looks about the same to me...
    I had the XL Sultan with a TT of 25.5"; In comparison the 22" El Padrino sports a 24.5" TT. Numbers for the El Rey are similar. This is standard geo, not custom. But I think it is more of a 29er sizing issue-- DT went with a longer TT on the Sultan for a number of reasons. 26ers between the two brands on the other hand, are pretty close.

    Comparing the top tubes on the RFX and the Terremoto they are pretty close, as are the TT's on the Spot to the Ciclon. I should have made that distinction on my original post, so I'll fix that. But still, the Terrremoto (for example) fits me better than does the RFX. On paper, anyway. Only about a half inch difference on TT lengths.

    Both companies make great bikes, and frankly, someone looking for a high quality frame wouldn't go wrong buying either brand.
    Last edited by Random Drivel; 04-12-2008 at 11:49 PM.

  20. #20
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    Thanks Random - I was looking at the Terremoto and RFX so your comments help put that into perspective. It makes sense too what you wrote about the Sultan, I know a buddy who I used to race with that has a Sultan and he's always a little more comfortable on a longer TT bike as I am. I am thinking about a Terremoto ro something like it down the road and I am thinking I can get it set up right w/out needing custom geo - but I haven't thrown a leg over one yet...

  21. #21
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    That Turner owner really has an unusual way to run his cables. I know toilets flush in different directions in Australia, and you drive on the left side of the road in some countries, but is cable routing another one of those reversed cultural exports?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr
    That Turner owner really has an unusual way to run his cables. I know toilets flush in different directions in Australia, and you drive on the left side of the road in some countries, but is cable routing another one of those reversed cultural exports?

    you mean the "moto" style brakes?

  23. #23
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    So I could use my camera as an excuse at the top of climbs...Here is one of me catching my breath.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Rock
    I owned a Turner, and "borrowed" two Konas long enough to make up my mind. No disrespect to DT, but Sherwood knows WTF he's doing.

    I own 4 Ventanas and had a Sherwood designed Psycle Werks before. You either get it or you don't.


    D.
    Do the Ventana's ride like the PsycleWerks? I had a Wild Hare for awhile. Just curious.

    Dave

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightySchmoePong
    Do the Ventana's ride like the PsycleWerks? I had a Wild Hare for awhile. Just curious.

    Dave
    Not really. But I've never ridden a Fuego, which is what would be the closest to the WH. The Hare was the best climbing FS bike I have ever ridden. The Turner Burner I owned rode more like the Hare, both a little sluggish in the tight stuff. At least I didn't smack my pedals all the time on the PW like I did on the Burner. The PW was a fast bike.

    The Salty compared to the PW is superior in every other way. Much stiffer laterally. The PW wanted to wallow mid stroke, not the case with the Ventana.

    D.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    you mean the "moto" style brakes?
    I may end up switching to moto, cannot stop grabbing the left brake . . . .

  27. #27
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    now that i think about it...I DID buy a Kona a couple weeks ago... to compliment the Ventanas

    (already swapped half the parts on it )

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cmadrigal/2315484234/" title="My new commuter: 2008 Kona Dew Plus by cmadrigal, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/2315484234_23c7551db8_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="My new commuter: 2008 Kona Dew Plus" /></a>

  28. #28
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    Thats funny. I'm actually driving 5 hours tomorrow morning (have I mentioned I'm an idiot?) to buy a Kona jake the snake. If theres really no difference after all maybe I'll sell the X-5.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihatemywife
    Thats funny. I'm actually driving 5 hours tomorrow morning (have I mentioned I'm an idiot?) to buy a Kona jake the snake. If theres really no difference after all maybe I'll sell the X-5.

  30. #30
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    [QUOTE=crisillo]now that i think about it...I DID buy a Kona a couple weeks ago... to compliment the Ventanas

    (already swapped half the parts on it )
    [QUOTE]


    That's a familiar justification...

    Why (at the time) do you need a Sixth Bike? - Wife
    Do you want me to ride one of the Ventanas and have it stolen? - Me
    Okay, but no more...- Wife. - Please note the "at the time" at this point.
    (Only the frame is original!)
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  31. #31
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    Wink oops

    Quote Originally Posted by ihatemywife
    Thats funny. I'm actually driving 5 hours tomorrow morning (have I mentioned I'm an idiot?) to buy a Kona jake the snake. If theres really no difference after all maybe I'll sell the X-5.
    I hope you called first, the owner of the shop you should be going to is in Moab so you'll be dealing with lackeys.

  32. #32
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    Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by D-Rock
    Not really. But I've never ridden a Fuego, which is what would be the closest to the WH. The Hare was the best climbing FS bike I have ever ridden. The Turner Burner I owned rode more like the Hare, both a little sluggish in the tight stuff. At least I didn't smack my pedals all the time on the PW like I did on the Burner. The PW was a fast bike.

    The Salty compared to the PW is superior in every other way. Much stiffer laterally. The PW wanted to wallow mid stroke, not the case with the Ventana.

    D.
    I thought the PW was the worst climbing bike I ever owned. Absolutely wretched. It would squat under power on steel climbs and would absolutely suck the energy out of me. I sold it after 9 months and got a Trek Fuel (much better climbing bike). The lateral stiffness on the PW was sub-par as well. I did like the high BB as you mentioned though; going to the Fuel was quite a shock through the rocks w/ all the pedal strikes.

    After breaking my fuel frame a couple of times I went to a Turner XCE and haven't looked back since.

    It's amazing how different peoples opinions about the same frame can be.

    I'm going to have to get myself a Ventana one day; I've been close to pulling the trigger a few times. Beautiful frames.

    Dave

  33. #33
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    That's funny because most everyone who rode the PW and even the guy who bought it from me commented on how well it climbed.


    D.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    now that i think about it...I DID buy a Kona a couple weeks ago... to compliment the Ventanas

    (already swapped half the parts on it )

    That's a familiar justification...

    Why (at the time) do you need a Sixth Bike? - Wife
    Do you want me to ride one of the Ventanas and have it stolen? - Me
    Okay, but no more...- Wife. - Please note the "at the time" at this point.
    (Only the frame is original!)
    Exactly!

  35. #35
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    This thread reminds me why I rarely, if ever, go near STW anymore. Perhaps a sweeping statement, but it really is full of inbred turnip heads (no pun intended to Inbred bikes)

    As a Brit I much prefer MTBR
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  36. #36
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    Because Ventanas ride and hold up well over time.

    Will most likely replace the busted X5 with the El-Ray if/when the family finances are back in tune.

  37. #37
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    So I have a question, why do people let other people buy konas if they aren't that great? That pisses me off.

    I could have gotten a cannondale or iron horse like I wanted. Stuck with an SS kona blast '07 now. It already needs to be trued.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by UmbrousSoul
    So I have a question, why do people let other people buy konas if they aren't that great? That pisses me off.

    I could have gotten a cannondale or iron horse like I wanted. Stuck with an SS kona blast '07 now. It already needs to be trued.
    kona's are not necessarily bad bikes for the price.... but the quality is no comparable to a Ventana

  39. #39
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    I think Konas are good bikes for the price and I'd happily ride one. But I'm also happy to pay the extra for a Ventana. Of course there are always diminishing returns when buying high end products (as with everything you buy), but having said that my X5 is turning out to be great value for money. I've been riding it as my only mtb since 2004 and it hasn't missed a beat. Still looks, and more importantly, rides like new. I would probably have gone through several cheaper bikes in the same time frame.
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  40. #40
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    I would have been very happy with a Turner (I had an RFX, it was a great bike). I would put Turner and Ventana in the same league performance-wise, with the slight differences in geometry and suspension application from what I have ridden for both (the bulk of both lines).

    No way is Kona even in the same league. Their suspension may look similar, but is much less plush, the frames are flexier, heavier, geometry rides "higher" and doesn't handle as well. If Ventana and Turner are, say 9.5 on a scale of 10 of what a mountain bike is capable of, I would rate Kona a 5. Seriously, I don't understand why they are so popular: plain-jane frame, nothing special about the design or application, and with a mediocre parts spec. And, our shop sells Kona: people ask for them all the time. I guess they have "street cred". I was on a CoilAir from the shop before I got my RFX, and these bikes were not even in the same ballpark.

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