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  1. #1
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    PLZ Help Sizing a new El Salt

    Moving to El Salt 4"'er from a SM Titus RX. Eff head tube of M El Salt is super close to the Small RX... (within .3 cm) my inseam is 29. The Med Salt seems better... (closer) to what I would be comfortable with, but I am concerned about stand-over... I am 5'6.5 without mtb shoes... geometry really pust me in the middle if a 16" and 18" El Salt... Any advice would be REALLY appreciated... TIA

  2. #2
    Homey don't play that!
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    I usually size a bike by top tube length. What's the top tube length on the Titus?

    You should give Sherwood a call he's about your size.
    [SIZE="2"]Old age and treachery will always win over youth and exuberance. [/SIZE]

  3. #3
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    You will love that bike but definitely discuss sizing with Sherwood. Going semi-custom is also an option if you want more standover (the medium's TT with the small's ST).

  4. #4
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    Im basicly the same height and I find most medium frames fit me better. I have pretty much given up on standover clearance and go for the top tube lenght. After looking at the spec's for the El Salt I would probably look at a 18" over the 16". El Cic I would probably spring for the 17". If I had a few extra dollars I would ask Sherwood if he could make a 16" frame with a longer top tube.
    I usually like a roomier top tube than what most small frames have, 22 1/4-22 1/5" long. Most smalls offer a 22" top tube but drop the seat and its like 21" or smaller.
    Pearl & Paiste, weapons of mass percussion

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    You will love that bike but definitely discuss sizing with Sherwood. Going semi-custom is also an option if you want more standover (the medium's TT with the small's ST).
    Seriously consider a semi-custom! That's what I did- a large frame with medium-sized seat tube for better standover height. I was always between a medium and large size. It's really great to be able to get the frame that fits you - something you can do easily with Ventana.

  6. #6
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    Titus RX = Stand Over 28.61 center TT to ground. Eff.TT = 22.70
    El Salt 16 = Stand Over 28.8 center TT to ground. Eff TT = 22.27
    El Salt 18 = Stand Over 29.90 center TT to ground. Eff. TT = 23.00

    On the RX I used a 100mm stem and a non-set back seatpost.

    I agree Eff. TT is most important, and this is why I am leaning towards the 18. The RX was very good for me size wise. The 29.9 S.O. is cutting it close, but it's not measured just in front of the BB though (where I would think it's most important).

    What is optimal stem length for El Salt? I doubt that if I went to the 16" and did a 110mm stem it would make much of a differrence... but, I aslo want to keep the rig "flickable"... quick... will the extra 10mm have an effect???

    Does anyone know the standover of an 18" as measured just in front of the BB? (or am I absolutely wrong in thinking this may be what matters more when considering standover???

    Thanks for your input... I hope I don't have to go the custom build way... but... TIA!

  7. #7
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    Measuring Inseam

    In order to better discuss standover with Sherwood, have someone help you determine your inseam the correct, classic way it is done for bike fit. You can't do it precisely enough by yourself.

    You need a book with a rigid spine or piece of wood either about .5"- .75" wide. Standing in bare feet against a wall the partner slides the book between your legs and up against the underside of your pelvic bone. It should be pressed firmly against the bone, otherwise a 3/8" or more inaccuracy can result. The helper marks the wall if possible, useful for comparisons to wearing shoes.

    I was required to measure this way for a manufacturer once. Initially I was discussing my standover using a sloppier version of this technique and did it by myself. As a result the builder was saying the frame size I wanted (due to TT length) was too close to safely work due to the standover being too high. Using this approach outlined above I found I was @.75" longer inseam difference! I may be the idiot at the far end of the bell-shaped curve, but it drove the point home since I have short legs and standover is always a pivotal issue. I ended up getting the stock X5 which solved all standover matters. I could even fit the next size up with plenty of S.O. I set it up as a purely XC ride and like it alot.

    I suggest you you provide Sherwood with this information and tell him how it was derived. There are also techniques for measuring torso and reach. Perhaps Sherwood has a document to cover it. Colorado Cyclist may also. Just to derive the measurements, not derive a frame size. There is also Wrench Science. I believe they have a sheet and are also a Ventana dealer. I hope this is of some assistance. I bought too many frames that were too short based on standover clearance.

    Anybody else have have home measurement suggestions or resources?
    WYATT

  8. #8
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    If you're coming off an RX and intend your new ride to be more trailbike-ish, I'd go medium. We are pretty similar in stature and I had a small '04 El Salt that was really just too small. I bought the frame directly from Ventana and had it built with a 90mm stem by Wrench Science. I'm not sure how they decided on the 90mm stem, but for that size frame, I was just too cramped. I bought an HH125 last year with the 22.5 TT and honestly, it's still a little small for the type of riding I do in NorCal. For the type of riding I like, I'd prefer a slightly longer TT with shorter stem. Next bike I buy will have close to a 23", if not exactly a 23" TT.

    Where will you be riding? East Coast riding might be slightly better suited to a shorter TT/longer stem combo than West Coast riding is.

  9. #9
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    It might be worth your time and money to get fitted correctly before making the purchase. It's not a nice feeling to lay down hard earned cash only to find out the frame doesn't fit you or your riding style.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by strat819
    Moving to El Salt 4"'er from a SM Titus RX. Eff head tube of M El Salt is super close to the Small RX... (within .3 cm) my inseam is 29. The Med Salt seems better... (closer) to what I would be comfortable with, but I am concerned about stand-over... I am 5'6.5 without mtb shoes... geometry really pust me in the middle if a 16" and 18" El Salt... Any advice would be REALLY appreciated... TIA
    I basically went throught the same process a few months ago when I moved from a small SC Superlight to a medium El Salt. I am 5'7" tall without shoes, but honestly, so much depends on how long your legs are, trunk is, arm length, etc. I ended up going to the Competitive Cylcist (www.competitivecylcist.com) fit calculator to get my measurements. As others have said, have a buddy measure you...it's too hard to do accurately by yourself. This worked well for me.

    I always felt a bit cramped on the Superlight, but going to a medium in the Salt was a bit scary, since if I screwed up, it would be an expensive mistake. However, going with the medium was absolutely the right thing to do. With the Superlight I seemed to ride "on top of" the bike, where with the Salt, I'm riding "in the bike". I've got long arms for my height, and I'm running a 110mm stem. The bike is plenty responsive. I ride a good bit of AM, and the Salty is a very stable set-up for me in the medium frame in all aspects of riding- climbs better than what I thought it would, descends wayyyy better than any other bike I've been on and I handle ledges and drops with 10X more confidence than I ever have.

    Overall, though I think you are right to think about TT as more important than other measurements. I have a 30.5" inseam (measured the way they do it on Competitive Cyclist), and I have no problems with the standover on the medium Salt....and I am running a 120mm fork and 2.25" tires. So I don't think this will be a big issue for you on the medium unless you have an inseam shorter than say about 29.5".

    Anyway, switching to a Ventana was the best move I ever made. You will not be disappointed. Good luck and let us know what you decided....and when you get 'er built, post some pix!
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

  11. #11
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    Thanks... time for a phone call to CA...

    Fantastic advice and I will call the factory.... Thank you all very much!

  12. #12
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    BTW: Standover isn't really that big a deal. I mean: How often do you really stand with both feet on the ground with your bike between your legs?

    That said: the 16"/18"semi custom option might just be a good idea if you are concerned about standover.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed
    BTW: Standover isn't really that big a deal. I mean: How often do you really stand with both feet on the ground with your bike between your legs?
    I guess it depends how/where you ride. Personally, I'm in a situation where I appreciate every bit of standover I have (in my semi-custom Salty). Usually, it's when I have to bail on a steep, rocky, technical climb. If you don't have these types of climbs, or if you always make them, than standover probably wouldn't be very important to you. But in my case, more standover has meant the difference between an uneventful dismount and a very painful incident enough times that it was more than worth the upcharge for semi-custom!

  14. #14
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    Go 18".

    You can easily take 1 cm off your stem length and rotate bars back etc with sweep angles etc..
    Also to get the same seat angle you need to go straight seatpost which will close up the frame again.
    I made the mistake of going to to small frame on my 20" Salty 23.9"TT and ended up more on the bike than in the bike compared to my LG Titus MLII 24.3"TT!
    I really regret not getting the 22" now!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by agoura_biker
    I guess it depends how/where you ride.
    Of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by agoura_biker
    Usually, it's when I have to bail on a steep, rocky, technical climb. If you don't have these types of climbs, or if you always make them, than standover probably wouldn't be very important to you.
    I bail on at least as many climbs as most guys, since I'm in really bad shape. However, I find that I still dismount with one foot first into tha ground, with the other still clipped in. Maybe it's just me. Anyway: More room between your parts and the top tube can never be a bad thing.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by agoura_biker
    I guess it depends how/where you ride.
    Of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by agoura_biker
    Usually, it's when I have to bail on a steep, rocky, technical climb. If you don't have these types of climbs, or if you always make them, than standover probably wouldn't be very important to you.
    I bail on at least as many climbs as most guys, since I'm in really bad shape. However, I find that I still dismount with one foot first into tha ground, with the other still clipped in. Maybe it's just me. Anyway: More room between your parts and the top tube can never be a bad thing.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by agoura_biker
    I guess it depends how/where you ride.
    Of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by agoura_biker
    Usually, it's when I have to bail on a steep, rocky, technical climb. If you don't have these types of climbs, or if you always make them, than standover probably wouldn't be very important to you.
    I bail on at least as many climbs as most guys, since I'm in really bad shape. However, I find that I still dismount with one foot first into tha ground, with the other still clipped in. Maybe it's just me. Anyway: More room between your parts and the top tube can never be a bad thing.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by agoura_biker
    I guess it depends how/where you ride.
    Of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by agoura_biker
    Usually, it's when I have to bail on a steep, rocky, technical climb. If you don't have these types of climbs, or if you always make them, than standover probably wouldn't be very important to you.
    I bail on at least as many climbs as most guys, since I'm in really bad shape. However, I find that I still dismount with one foot first into tha ground, with the other still clipped in. Maybe it's just me. Anyway: More room between your parts and the top tube can never be a bad thing.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed
    I bail on at least as many climbs as most guys, since I'm in really bad shape. However, I find that I still dismount with one foot first into tha ground, with the other still clipped in. Maybe it's just me. Anyway: More room between your parts and the top tube can never be a bad thing.
    It wasn't just your comment earlier, but others have also said they thought standover wasn't that important. So I've been thinking about that a bit as I've been riding. Maybe some of us are just a bit more risk-averse than others! But the times I've really been happy to have some extra clearance have mostly been on rocky, uneven terrain - like when you go to put your foot down but the ground is a foot lower than you expected! Or you stall out and your bike rolls back over a rocky slope for a few feet before you can find your footing. By far, most of the time I have to bail there's no drama - but the few times when things don't go as expected, it's nice to have some leeway!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by strat819
    Moving to El Salt 4"'er from a SM Titus RX. Eff head tube of M El Salt is super close to the Small RX... (within .3 cm) my inseam is 29. The Med Salt seems better... (closer) to what I would be comfortable with, but I am concerned about stand-over... I am 5'6.5 without mtb shoes... geometry really pust me in the middle if a 16" and 18" El Salt... Any advice would be REALLY appreciated... TIA
    I am 5' 6" tall with average arm and leg length for my size. I ride a stock medium Salty set up as follows:


    • 5" travel front and rear
    • 90 mm stem
    • Race Face Next Carbon 1" riser bar
    • Straight Thomson seat post
    • 175 mm crank arms

    I find the top tube length to be a tad long, but still very comfortable. I do wish I had more standover clearance. When I do an "emergency dismount" the tube is tucked up pretty solidly into my tender regions. Some of the other posters to this thread suggested a semi-custom medium Salty with better standover height. If I had to do it all over again, I would most likely go that route myself.

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