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  1. #1
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    A new Ventana coming into the fold..

    El Tigre III is a done project (minus switching out the top gear for a 36T after this next project is done), and given it's an X-6 and at 34 lbs, it's not really a ride all the time type of bike. Especially in NorCal, where 80% of our riding is fine for XC.

    So I'm building up an El Salt, with either 110mm or 120mm travel (depending on what Sherwood says tomorrow). I'm going the opposite direction of El Tigre III--trying for as light as I can afford and won't feel like a compromise to me.

    For those who own El Saltamontes, any suggestions for someone getting one? I'm sure it's going to be a different ride with short legs, and the build at around 25-26lbs.
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  2. #2
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    nice... is it a stock frame? or a custom?...would be cool to have the stock bb height with the 110 or 120mm fork...

  3. #3
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    I've been riding an El Salt for quite a while, and have some ideas about how I'd tweak it, for SoCal xc riding at least. First, I've settled on a 120mm fork (w/ some kind of travel reduction for steep climbing) on the El Salt, but the downside is that the bb gets pretty high with the taller fork. That, and the 100mm out back can get a bit gun shy at speed.

    So here's what I'd order up: custom geo to keep the stock bb height and seat tube angle with a 120mm fork and 2.3" tires, with the frame designed around a 2.25"-stroke shock to net 115mm travel instead of the stock 100mm. I'd be trying to keep the bike light and agile while extending its abilities in fast, rocky lines.

    Or maybe it's just time the Salty got redesigned w/ new rockers for 120mm front and rear, oh, and a tapered head tube. That'd be perfect.

  4. #4
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    I would not run the Salty with more than 110mm of travel unless you have it designed around a specific a2c dimension. I think Sherwood will agree. I had a Salty with a talas but kept it at 120 for general riding......it was okay but not perfect.
    Last edited by mtnbiker4life; 11-03-2010 at 10:02 PM.

  5. #5
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    After talking to Sherwood, I'm going to run the bike as a 110mm front and rear. Other than that, it should be the standard 16" geo. I am getting the front and rear both painted white with emerald sparkles, so it will be nice with green accents.

    For NorCal XC riding, we really don't need a lot of travel here. The good news is running a 110mm fork rakes out the HA to 69.5 or 69 with the 110mm rear, so that should feel just fine for here. I did think that 70.5 HA would be too steep for me too, which is why I talked to Sherwood about tweaking the geo for me. The setup will be similar to Ciclistagonzo's as far the 110mm front and rear.

    Sherwood recommended to run the bike with the same travel front and rear. After riding El Tigre with 160mm front and 140mm rear before, I would agree with him. El Tigre is now being run 160mm front and rear and feels much better balanced.

    For the rides a lot of travel, and that's reserved for the big bike (El Tigre) for those needs. The goal is to have very little overlap between the bikes, so I was leaning towards the 110mm anyway, but 100mm never felt right to me, even when they were the common fork everyone was running back in the day. *grabs cane*

    The rest of the build is here, and it should figure around ~25 lbs. I could make it lighter, but this should be fine for me.

    F32 120mm RLC lowered to 110mm, with 15mm TA
    Chris King Green headset
    70mm Stem initially
    Race Face Atlas Green 28" handlebar
    Oury Lock Ons grips, Black with Green ends
    XT 9 Speed shifters
    Formula Oro K24 6" Rear, 7" Front, Dirty Dog dragons
    Specialized Saddle Lithia 143 White
    Gravity Dropper Turbo
    Race Face Deus SL 175 with 36/22T and Gamut white bashguard
    Chris King BB
    Shimano SLX 667 2 Speed front derailleur
    XTR Mid Cage, not Shadow, rear derailleur
    SRAM 990 Green rear cassette
    SRAM PC-991 Cross Step, w/gold link
    Time Z pedals
    Wheels Stan's 355 Black rims with Green King hubs and 14/15 DT swiss spokes
    Tires are Maxxis Aspen 2.25 front and Maxxis Aspen 2.1 rear
    Last edited by Stripes; 10-18-2010 at 02:03 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by albeant
    , with the frame designed around a 2.25"-stroke shock to net 115mm travel instead of the stock 100mm. I'd be trying to keep the bike light and agile while extending its abilities in fast, rocky lines.

    :
    Go see my posting on the current last page of the Setup thread. I have the 2.25" stroke shock, but you do not get 115mm. The falling rate at the end of the rocker stroke nets you the 110mm that Anne (Stripes) is talking about. I run my Pike at 110 as well, 115mm for DH/Chunkier and love it. It's interesting that it's all of an extra .25 stroke and a whopping 10mm more travel, not much but it does change the characteristics of the bike. Longer legged, and plusher. WAY more settled in rocks. Climbs just fine, but I do need to weight the front more than before. I have HUGE 2.35" Nevegals front and rear and it's just a fun bike to ride.

    It's about time Anne copied me....
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes
    After talking to Sherwood, I'm going to run the bike as a 110mm front and rear. Other than that, it should be the standard 16" geo. I am getting the front and rear both painted white with emerald sparkles, so it will be nice with green accents.

    For NorCal XC riding, we really don't need a lot of travel here. The good news is running a 110mm fork rakes out the HA to 69.5 or 69 with the 110mm rear, so that should feel just fine for here. I did think that 70.5 HA would be too steep for me too, which is why I talked to Sherwood about tweaking the geo for me. The setup will be similar to Ciclistagonzo's as far the 110mm front and rear.

    Sherwood recommended to run the bike with the same travel front and rear. After riding El Tigre with 160mm front and 140mm rear before, I would agree with him. El Tigre is now being run 160mm front and rear and feels much better balanced.

    For the rides a lot of travel, and that's reserved for the big bike (El Tigre) for those needs. The goal is to have very little overlap between the bikes, so I was leaning towards the 110mm anyway, but 100mm never felt right to me, even when they were the common fork everyone was running back in the day. *grabs cane*

    The rest of the build is here, and it should figure around ~25 lbs. I could make it lighter, but this should be fine for me.

    F32 120mm RLC lowered to 110mm, with 15mm TA
    Chris King Green headset
    70mm Stem initially
    Race Face Atlas Green 28" handlebar
    Oury Lock Ons grips, Black with Green ends
    XT 9 Speed shifters
    Formula Oro K24 6" Rear, 7" Front, Dirty Dog dragons
    Specialized Saddle Lithia 143 White
    Gravity Dropper Turbo
    Race Face Deus SL 175 with 36/22T and Gamut white bashguard
    Chris King BB
    Shimano SLX 667 2 Speed front derailleur
    XTR Mid Cage, not Shadow, rear derailleur
    SRAM 990 Green rear cassette
    SRAM PC-991 Cross Step, w/gold link
    Time Z pedals
    Wheels Stan's 355 Black rims with Green King hubs and 14/15 DT swiss spokes
    Tires are Maxxis Aspen 2.25 front and Maxxis Aspen 2.1 rear

    Looks like a solid build. Another fork option would be the new RS SID 15mm maxle. Another color that would look great with green is Battleship Gray So you're running a 2x9......those ratios are not very XC friendly. But my legs are tooth picks

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    Looks like a solid build. Another fork option would be the new RS SID 15mm maxle. Another color that would look great with green is Battleship Gray So you're running a 2x9......those ratios are not very XC friendly. But my legs are tooth picks
    I have a feeling that my XC build is going to be more of a 34-22 and my AM bike is going to end up being 36-22, but we'll see how I like the 36 ring on my XC bike. I'm running an 11-34 in the back. Would you change the front rings to make the gearing more XC friendly?

    Thanks for the fork recommendation, but I'm pretty happy with a Fox fork.

    My legs aren't toothpicks, but the layers of fat around them need to go away
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  9. #9
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    Slightly slacker HA will help settle that bike down a bit and it will be fantastic as long as the BB stays where it is or just a teeny bit lower if you really want it to rail around corners. I think you have it nailed...even the color.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Slightly slacker HA will help settle that bike down a bit and it will be fantastic as long as the BB stays where it is or just a teeny bit lower if you really want it to rail around corners. I think you have it nailed...even the color.
    Heh, thanks As soon as pictures are available, I'll post 'em. The build is pretty stock other than the longer stroke shock and possibly the HA a bit. I have no idea how long it'll take, but I'm getting the Cuervo ready to ship back in exchange.

    I'm currently getting the parts together (some off the Cuervo, which I'm not keeping since I hurt my back this summer.. just seemed like a bad idea after that). As soon as build gets started, I'm going to see if Passion Trail Bikes will take pictures during the build.

    I'm really stoked about this. I can't quite carve the long singletrack on a 160mm bike the way you can on a shorter travel bike.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes
    I have a feeling that my XC build is going to be more of a 34-22 and my AM bike is going to end up being 36-22, but we'll see how I like the 36 ring on my XC bike. I'm running an 11-34 in the back. Would you change the front rings to make the gearing more XC friendly?

    Thanks for the fork recommendation, but I'm pretty happy with a Fox fork.

    My legs aren't toothpicks, but the layers of fat around them need to go away
    I rode a 1x9 for a year with a 32T 11/34 cassette.....that covered 90% of the trails I ride but some super steep stuff was a bike-n-hike. I felt most XC trails were better with the 32T verses the 36T but then again I like to spin not mash.

    So is this frame a 2011 with all the freshening up or is it a 2010? If so what are the new things for 2011?

  12. #12
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Go see my posting on the current last page of the Setup thread. I have the 2.25" stroke shock, but you do not get 115mm. The falling rate at the end of the rocker stroke nets you the 110mm that Anne (Stripes) is talking about. I run my Pike at 110 as well, 115mm for DH/Chunkier and love it. It's interesting that it's all of an extra .25 stroke and a whopping 10mm more travel, not much but it does change the characteristics of the bike. Longer legged, and plusher. WAY more settled in rocks. Climbs just fine, but I do need to weight the front more than before. I have HUGE 2.35" Nevegals front and rear and it's just a fun bike to ride.

    It's about time Anne copied me....
    and no risk of contact with the seat tube?

    I once asked Sherwood about it and he said that would be the only thing to watch out for.. I haven't tried it yet.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    and no risk of contact with the seat tube?

    I once asked Sherwood about it and he said that would be the only thing to watch out for.. I haven't tried it yet.
    Nope, no contact, and I have the older style seatstay, that doesn't have the machined out notch. I recently went on a ride where I knocked the rubber O-ring off the shaft and no contact. I have an '08 frame so keep that in mind.

    One way to check is to take a wooden stick, I used a 1"x 3/4" by 10" piece of wood. Measure out 7 7/8" and drill out 6mm holes. That's the extended length, then drill a hole 2.3" lower from the top hole. If that fits up with out contact, your good. You get a 0.05" (1mm) safety cushion! (Note tongue in cheek comment there)

    -A
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  14. #14
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    Can someone expound on Sherwood's philosophy/recommendation for matching the travel front and rear?
    Thanks!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgerat
    Can someone expound on Sherwood's philosophy/recommendation for matching the travel front and rear?
    Thanks!
    That's above my pay grade. It's best to call Sherwood directly. I am sure he would spend the time to explain his design philosophy.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgerat
    Can someone expound on Sherwood's philosophy/recommendation for matching the travel front and rear?
    Thanks!
    From what I understand and from experiences running El Tigre with 160mm front an 140mm rear is a more balanced ride.

    Sherwood has experimented with different travel front and rear, so he would be best to tell you.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Go see my posting on the current last page of the Setup thread. I have the 2.25" stroke shock, but you do not get 115mm. The falling rate at the end of the rocker stroke nets you the 110mm that Anne (Stripes) is talking about. I run my Pike at 110 as well, 115mm for DH/Chunkier and love it. It's interesting that it's all of an extra .25 stroke and a whopping 10mm more travel, not much but it does change the characteristics of the bike. Longer legged, and plusher. WAY more settled in rocks. Climbs just fine, but I do need to weight the front more than before. I have HUGE 2.35" Nevegals front and rear and it's just a fun bike to ride.

    It's about time Anne copied me....
    Very cool--thanks for the info. The 2.25" stroke should get the sagged bb down a tad too. I'm going to look into this for sure!

  18. #18
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Nope, no contact, and I have the older style seatstay, that doesn't have the machined out notch. I recently went on a ride where I knocked the rubber O-ring off the shaft and no contact. I have an '08 frame so keep that in mind.

    One way to check is to take a wooden stick, I used a 1"x 3/4" by 10" piece of wood. Measure out 7 7/8" and drill out 6mm holes. That's the extended length, then drill a hole 2.3" lower from the top hole. If that fits up with out contact, your good. You get a 0.05" (1mm) safety cushion! (Note tongue in cheek comment there)

    -A
    Thanks, A..... I have an RP23 that I use sometimes on the TM, so I might give it a try...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes
    From what I understand and from experiences running El Tigre with 160mm front an 140mm rear is a more balanced ride.

    Sherwood has experimented with different travel front and rear, so he would be best to tell you.
    So is this frame a 2010 or 2011? What are the changes for 2011?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    So is this frame a 2010 or 2011? What are the changes for 2011?
    Dude, asked and ignored!


    If it's built in 2010, it's a 2010, if it's built after January 3rd, it's a 2011.
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Dude, asked and ignored!


    If it's built in 2010, it's a 2010, if it's built after January 3rd, it's a 2011.
    Yep, everyone dances around the tough issues.......I'm here to ask the questions no one wants to ask. All these years I didn't know the product year dividing line was so absolute. For example, my 650B frame was ordered Dec 2009 but delivered in 2010 with all the 2010 upgrades........is it a 2009 or a 2010. I guess I am just caught up in all the 2011 product hysteria.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    Yep, everyone dances around the tough issues.......I'm here to ask the questions no one wants to ask. All these years I didn't know the product year dividing line was so absolute. For example, my 650B frame was ordered Dec 2009 but delivered in 2010 with all the 2010 upgrades........is it a 2009 or a 2010. I guess I am just caught up in all the 2011 product hysteria.
    Have no idea, and I don't tend to follow the annual hype for builds unless there' something wrong with the current years.

    Here's what I'll tell you after getting off the phone with Teresa this afternoon:
    El Saltamontes 16" frame with level 2 customization:
    - Lighter tubing
    - Quad bearings
    - 69 degree head angle, built around an F120RLC lowered to 110mm
    - 110mm rear travel with a 7.87 x 2.25 shock
    Gloss white paint with emerald sparkles, front and rear triangle

    Frame's due to arrive sometime in mid-November.
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  23. #23
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    Color change to grinch green, tubes are being mitered
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes
    Color change to grinch green, tubes are being mitered
    With blue Chris King hubs, headset and BB? Or Pewter King hubs, headset and BB
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A new Ventana coming into the fold..-img_0615xsml.jpg  


  25. #25
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    Well, the BB is black, but I think I'm going with gold accents. The blue does look nice. I need to call the shop and figure out colors.
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