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  1. #1
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    New pivot placement....

    I'd love to get a good demo on a Ventana but can't anytime soon - so I'm left only to pester others in espace.

    Looking at the pivot placement on the new Ventanas has me concerned that it is nearing the realm of a high single pivot, albeit, "not so high" single pivot. Anyone out there who can comment? I like the feel of a super plush low single pivot and have no desire in giving that up for "pedaling efficiency".

    Anyone notice a loss of suspension compliance under hard pedaling with the new design, compared to the prior design?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    I'd love to get a good demo on a Ventana but can't anytime soon - so I'm left only to pester others in espace.

    Looking at the pivot placement on the new Ventanas has me concerned that it is nearing the realm of a high single pivot, albeit, "not so high" single pivot. Anyone out there who can comment? I like the feel of a super plush low single pivot and have no desire in giving that up for "pedaling efficiency".

    Anyone notice a loss of suspension compliance under hard pedaling with the new design, compared to the prior design?

    Thanks.
    From someone who had an X-5 and now owns a 2012 El Ciclon.

    I don't feel any difference in the suspension under hard pedaling. But I do notice a difference under "regular" pedaling where the pedal bob is a lot less.

    Hopefully Myke and others will pipe up as well. He gets this stuff on a more technical level than I do since he has a new Chucho and he's ridden a bunch of the older Ventana suspension designs.
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  3. #3
    fai
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    I have come straight off an 09 El Ciclon onto a 2012 frame. I also was riding an El Terremoto. I swopped the forks,wheels, bar and stem from the Terremoto onto the new frame. This of course is only my opinion. I am using the frame in the 150mm travel setting. It is a totally different ride to the earlier frames, it rolls faster, is plush and climbs over techy stuff really well. I have used it on certain rides that I find very hard that contain a couple of climbs I have never been able to get up without stopping at sketchy bits on the steep rooty rocky bits. I have been able to clear them on this bike, admittedly I am now using a 10 speed cassette with a 36 but you still need a frame that keeps rolling easily while pedeling over that stuff. I like a frame with a smooth comfortable ride as I am not a racer so comfort is an important part of my set up. I think the ride will not disappoint you. I ride with the shock set on 0 only using the propedal on road climbs. I hope you can get a test ride soon.
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  4. #4
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    I will say that the 'feel' of the bike is a bit different. One thing I notice is in this scenario: You're going up a climb. There's rocks and roots to get up and over. On the older frames you could feel the suspension compress when you rolled onto the ledge you're trying to get up and over. Then as you came over the top of the ledge the suspension would come up in travel, then settle back into the travel a bit.
    The newer bike stays higher in it's travel. It seems as though it gives slightly less on the ledge overall, still smooth enough initially to get up and over, then once you're on top of it it stays higher in the travel. Making it really easy to get on the gas and build a pedal stroke or two of momentum before hitting the next ledge. The old bike had a hard time with that initial pedal stroke being a bit mushy.

    So the new bike is not as outright plush feeling climbing, it is very much punchier getting up an dover the techy parts.
    If that makes any sense at all....
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  5. #5
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    Thanks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Internal14 View Post
    I will say that the 'feel' of the bike is a bit different. One thing I notice is in this scenario: You're going up a climb. There's rocks and roots to get up and over. On the older frames you could feel the suspension compress when you rolled onto the ledge you're trying to get up and over. Then as you came over the top of the ledge the suspension would come up in travel, then settle back into the travel a bit.
    The newer bike stays higher in it's travel. It seems as though it gives slightly less on the ledge overall, still smooth enough initially to get up and over, then once you're on top of it it stays higher in the travel. Making it really easy to get on the gas and build a pedal stroke or two of momentum before hitting the next ledge. The old bike had a hard time with that initial pedal stroke being a bit mushy.

    So the new bike is not as outright plush feeling climbing, it is very much punchier getting up an dover the techy parts.
    If that makes any sense at all....
    Yep.... more like a high, forward single pivot Clearly though the pivot is still quite low so I'm pretty sure it would pedal more like my Lenz than my old SC Bullit.

    If I recall correctly you had the Chucho? That's the Ventana I'd like to get (but am trying to get a test first). How's the bike working out since your last post?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Yep.... more like a high, forward single pivot
    If it is more like a high, forward pivot, the high-pivot characteristics are incredibly subtle--I can guarantee you it won't pedal at all like your bullit. I spent 9 years on the Ventana Chamuco, another high-pivot bike, and the new Ciclon doesn't display any of the bad climbing-over-rough-terrain characteristics that I'd gotten used to on the Chamook. (I appreciate lots of things about the high single pivot, but climbing in rocky terrain isn't its strong suit.)

    The new design stays supple when climbing hard on rocky steeps or lunging up ledges, and I don't feel any suspension/chain tension interference. It just doesn't wallow as much as the other low-pivot Ventanas I've owned (Bruja gen 1, Bruja gen 2, El Salt), so it climbs better. Not sure why, but it does seem to pedal and roll faster over choppy terrain.

  7. #7
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    All the negative suspension traits of the past generation that have been mentioned here, can easily be erased with a properly set up CCDB. I'm not in denial either as I've already picked my new frame's color.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    All the negative suspension traits of the past generation that have been mentioned here, can easily be erased with a properly set up CCDB. I'm not in denial either as I've already picked my new frame's color.
    Is it the yellow you had? I like the yellow.

    Speaking of which, you should have it spec'd with the DBair. I'm really looking forward to that shock coming out.
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  9. #9
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    this talk of wallowing sounds like more to do with rate curve and shock characteristics than it does about pivot location
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek View Post
    this talk of wallowing sounds like more to do with rate curve and shock characteristics than it does about pivot location
    You can run a bed spring on _dw link bikes and they still ride great - has to be the bike's fault.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    Is it the yellow you had? I like the yellow.

    Speaking of which, you should have it spec'd with the DBair. I'm really looking forward to that shock coming out.
    Air suspension is not my thing. Besides, I'm more than manly enough to carry around a coil shock and fork, dropper post...and that boat anchor of a stem I got from you.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New pivot placement....-sedona046.jpg  

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