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  1. #1
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    New Ciclon vs. DW 5 Spot - ???

    I've been riding a 4.5" Salty for the past 5 years and am now (almost) ready to change (or add) a 5" trail bike to the stable. Although I've been torturing myself over the past 3 years relative to upgrading to a Ciclon (which I thought was inevitable), I am now throughly confused based upon the new frame and speaking with several Spot owners.

    I own also own a Padrino, and have owned an RFX which I didn't care for. Does any have seat time on both the new Ciclon and the DW Spot ? If so, I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts relative to their comparison.



    Thx.

  2. #2
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    I have to say I have only owned a marble peak and demoed an el capitan(at south mtn in phoenix for several days) I would say that South MTN is one of the premier places to test a susp. bike as it is full of lots of chunky trails to climb, hurl and lunge up and lots of ripping chunky trails to bash and plow down. Great place to see how efficient your bike pedals.

    It's almost unfair to compare the two bikes, the 5 spot is an example of the current, modern (better pedaling) trend of bikes with dw link/mini link/etc. Whereas the ventana(although pretty) and other faux bikes, still require you to run a heavily damped rear shock with some sort of propedal mechanism for climbing steep chunky stuff. Otherwise, you pogostick like a gypsee at 2 for one sale at the local brothel. Its unfortunate that ventana doesn't update their bikes to be more competitive with the rest of the market(for pedaling purposes only). Swoopy top tubes and asymetrical chainstays aren't going to cut it.
    Last edited by freebiker; 10-27-2012 at 09:50 PM. Reason: your face

  3. #3
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    Like the above poster, I don't have direct seat time to compare. I also think South Mountain has a great place to ride too.

    However, I feel like I need to defend the ciclon. I have a 2012 and LOVE it. I had a 2004 and a 2007 x5 before the ciclon. There is no comparison between the old and new rear suspension feel. I have had rp23s on all three frames. I can barely tell if the pro pedal is turned off when climbing on the ciclon. It climbs better with less rider induced compression than the old design. Descending is also much improved. Overall, the ciclon rides better than I could have imagined.

    Hopefully, someone does have seat time on both. But, I suspect properly set up, you could be very happy with either.

  4. #4
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    I own a 2012 ciclon and a dw link ibis hd that I ran @ 140mm before converting it to 160mm. I've never ridden a 5spot. The new ciclon blows my old x5 out of the water in every way. Better descender, better climber, better geo.
    The new ciclon compared to my Ibis hd @140 is only slightly less efficient on climbs, and just about the same if you can keep the ciclon in the middle ring. It's probably due to weight, but I always seem to be less tired at the end of the day after riding the ciclon vs my hd 140. My ciclon is 27lbs and the hd is 30lbs.
    My hd is better on the all mountain type rougher trails, but for my normal rides I prefer the ciclon. It's one of the funniest bikes I've ridden, it want's you to pump and pop every little feature and zip around corners probably due to the low bottom bracket and short chainstays. It's just a fun bike.
    I always try to demo before buying a frame, but thats pretty hard to do with ventana unless you can find someone local who ones one. What ever you choose will be an upgrade from your old salty.
    Another thing to consider is Ventana has great customer service, and they offer 30% discount on a new frame if you have an old ventana for trade in. That 30% off the new frame could possibly be more than what you would be able to sell your old frame for, making getting a new ventana much cheaper than the 5spot.

  5. #5
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    I'd like to try the new Ventana stuff

    But I've seen no demos this year.
    In the past I test rode my freinds Salty (great on the DH for a 4" bike but bobbed alot on the climbs no matter what adjustments I made to the suspension. El Rey (somehow better in every way than the Salty) and an El Ciclon (weak climber bomber on the down). I liked my 03 5 Spot better across the board except that it wasn't as plush on the small stuff. I'm currently on a roll testing 275s but it seams unlikeley that I'll get a shot at the Zeus unless they have a demo at the shop in small I can throw a leg over after driving 5 hours for the opportunity.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker View Post
    I have to say I have only owned a marble peak and demoed an el capitan(at south mtn in phoenix for several days) I would say that South MTN is one of the premier places to test a susp. bike as it is full of lots of chunky trails to climb, hurl and lunge up and lots of ripping chunky trails to bash and plow down. Great place to see how efficient your bike pedals.

    It's almost unfair to compare the two bikes, the 5 spot is an example of the current, modern (better pedaling) trend of bikes with dw link/mini link/etc. Whereas the ventana(although pretty) and other faux bikes, still require you to run a heavily damped rear shock with some sort of propedal mechanism for climbing steep chunky stuff. Otherwise, you pogostick like a gypsee at 2 for one sale at the local brothel. Its unfortunate that ventana doesn't update their bikes to be more competitive with the rest of the market(for pedaling purposes only). Swoopy top tubes and asymetrical chainstays aren't going to cut it.
    Have not ridden a Ventana but have spent lots of time on both HL bikes and dw bikes (currently have a 5-spot). My 5-spot is a great bike and one that I really like. However, from a suspension point of view, it is not orders of magnitude better than a HL bike or even a proper single pivot bike for that matter. In fact, they actually feel very similar and can be tuned to give pretty similar rides, up and down.

  7. #7
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    Both are great bike choices. The rear braking is going to be the only real difference. The Ventana will have some brake jack. The turner rear brake will rub the rotor while riding.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by saidrick View Post
    The turner rear brake will rub the rotor while riding.
    Please explain? is it rotor size or rear pm design?

    .

  9. #9
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    My buddy bought a brand new 5 spot( xl). Put hopes on the brakes with a 6 inch rear rotor.
    The brakes have rubbed since day one. I think it's post mount design issue.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by saidrick View Post
    My buddy bought a brand new 5 spot( xl). Put hopes on the brakes with a 6 inch rear rotor.
    The brakes have rubbed since day one. I think it's post mount design issue.
    I have a 2011 5spot which I have used with 2 different brake sets, neither one of the brake setups had any issues with rubbing. It's either a warped rotor or bad brake install

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mailloux View Post
    I have a 2011 5spot which I have used with 2 different brake sets, neither one of the brake setups had any issues with rubbing. It's either a warped rotor or bad brake install
    Ditto on my 2010 Spot.

  12. #12
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    I own a DW link 5-spot and have owned TNT and HL spots in the past. The TNT spot is pretty close to the Ciclon in design.

    I agree with the poster above on the DW link. It's not better than the HL or TNT design (IMO), just different and skewed towards climbing efficiency. The faux bars seem to do a better job of soaking up chunk. The DW-link Spot does have a bit more lateral stiffness over the older designs however. I'm not sure if this translates to the Ciclon or not.

    You probably can't lose with either, but if you're an efficiency nut, you might like the DW Spot (beware, there is a little pedal feedback in the granny on climbs), if you're a rock garden junkie, you might like the Ciclon.

    The Spot does not have rotor rub issues. That sounds like a set up issue to me. My brakes have been lined up since day one. No issues, and if there were, DT would likely make it right.

  13. #13
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    I had a new gen Ciclon' for 6 months and just made the switch to the new 5 Spot. The Spot is a faster more efficient pedaling bike and overal just feels more planted. The Ciclon is a sweet, solid riding bike, but I'm really diggin the new spot for all around trail use.
    It's Better To Die On Your Feet Than To Live On Your Knees. (Emiliano Zapata)

  14. #14
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    skewed toward climbing efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by k1creeker View Post
    I own a DW link 5-spot and have owned TNT and HL spots in the past. The TNT spot is pretty close to the Ciclon in design.

    I agree with the poster above on the DW link. It's not better than the HL or TNT design (IMO), just different and skewed towards climbing efficiency. The faux bars seem to do a better job of soaking up chunk. The DW-link Spot does have a bit more lateral stiffness over the older designs however. I'm not sure if this translates to the Ciclon or not.

    You probably can't lose with either, but if you're an efficiency nut, you might like the DW Spot (beware, there is a little pedal feedback in the granny on climbs), if you're a rock garden junkie, you might like the Ciclon.

    The Spot does not have rotor rub issues. That sounds like a set up issue to me. My brakes have been lined up since day one. No issues, and if there were, DT would likely make it right.
    No rotor rub here on several different dw turner mobiles. A bike designed for shocks with low comp. dampening and no needed platform doodads makes for a bike that is at least one.five magnitudes better than the alternative. These turnerbikes do the opposite of wallowing w/o propedal, they stinkbug up ready to slay the next piece of chunk or pothole.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1creeker View Post
    I own a DW link 5-spot and have owned TNT and HL spots in the past. The TNT spot is pretty close to the Ciclon in design.

    I agree with the poster above on the DW link. It's not better than the HL or TNT design (IMO), just different and skewed towards climbing efficiency. The faux bars seem to do a better job of soaking up chunk. The DW-link Spot does have a bit more lateral stiffness over the older designs however. I'm not sure if this translates to the Ciclon or not.

    You probably can't lose with either, but if you're an efficiency nut, you might like the DW Spot (beware, there is a little pedal feedback in the granny on climbs), if you're a rock garden junkie, you might like the Ciclon.

    The Spot does not have rotor rub issues. That sounds like a set up issue to me. My brakes have been lined up since day one. No issues, and if there were, DT would likely make it right.
    Agree, I have no issue with rotor rub or any brake issues with my Spot. I would say that for a HL or SP bike, get the shock Pushed. Makes a huge difference and makes the PP very useful and gives a similar ride to a dw linked bike. Of course, I will soon have my shocked pushed and am interested to see how that effect the ride....

  16. #16
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    Ciclon vs 5 Spot

    What was "wrong" with the Ciclon that made you switch to the 5 Spot? How's the 5 Spot interms of descending rocky & rooty trails?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezryder View Post
    What was "wrong" with the Ciclon that made you switch to the 5 Spot? How's the 5 Spot interms of descending rocky & rooty trails?
    Can't speak to the Ciclon question, but can to the 5 Spot descending abilities.

    The Spot with the stock Fox RP23, handles large hits pretty well, I've never felt a harsh bottom out even when taking it on some bike park DH terrain. The Spot's weakness, in my opinion is with medium sized hits in quick succession. Bombing root fields, the rear end feels like it's anticipating the next climb by trying to stay "efficient". It rides high in it's travel, more so than the older Horst link design. It's not harsh, its just not plush, if you're used to a decent DH bike feel.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1creeker View Post
    The Spot's weakness, in my opinion is with medium sized hits in quick succession. Bombing root fields, the rear end feels like it's anticipating the next climb by trying to stay "efficient". It rides high in it's travel, more so than the older Horst link design. It's not harsh, its just not plush, if you're used to a decent DH bike feel.
    In my experience anyway, this description constrasts sharply with the new Ciclon. Like Sherwood, I leave my Ciclon in the 150mm-travel setting all the time (running it with a Talas 36 now), and the bike is ridiculously plush in chunky terrain. The Ciclon really likes to get into its travel, remaining plush from the sag point all the way down, and the suspension moves freely over everything. (I'd just note that with the stock HV air can, the RP23 is probably too linear if you're hitting any drops. The Fox shims provide an easy means of tuning bottom-out, however.)

    Despite its DH prowess, however, it's still weirdly nimble, even "overforked" with the 36. Along with the frame's stiffness, the 16.7" chainstays seem to play a role here (that .3 inches makes a big difference and may be the best reason for holding onto the 26" wheel, at least in the rear).

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