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  1. #1
    spr
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    New changes to the 2011 Ventana frame

    What do you know about that?

    You can see it here

    http://ventanausa.com/

    Thx

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by spr
    What do you know about that?

    You can see it here

    http://ventanausa.com/

    Thx
    The fact that changes are coming is old news but what are those changes is the great mystery.

  3. #3
    ventanakaz
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    hummm. relax head angle. more tire clearance. lower bb. longer wheelbase. cross my fingers and hope
    i need to ride more. building jumps takes to much time...my other hobby is kicking the crap outta my home built mook jong.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1962
    hummm. relax head angle. more tire clearance. lower bb. longer wheelbase. cross my fingers and hope
    You can get most of those with a semi custom upcharge. Something new would be tapered head tube, larger seat post diameter, and ??????? If the changes tickle my fancy then I will through down the $$$$$$ for a new rig.

  5. #5
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    New Color

    What is that color is on that Ventana frame on the revised website? It looks like a light blue color. It's not candy blue is it?

  6. #6
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    As Ventana will introduce, as I read it, a new model range, then I believe in major changes and not only revising excisting models. A major change could be new rear suspension design, new colors, geometry or tube diameters does not require model change

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faapaa
    As Ventana will introduce, as I read it, a new model range, then I believe in major changes and not only revising excisting models. A major change could be new rear suspension design, new colors, geometry or tube diameters does not require model change
    Geometry, colors and tube diameters are something you can get now by paying a semi-custom upcharge. But a new suspension design would be interesting but as others have stated this is a tried and true design. If I had to guess it would be rocker design or leverage ratio or maybe even pivot design change.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    If the changes tickle my fancy then I will through down the $$$$$$ for a new rig.
    Hope you've been saving your pennies!


    I'd tell you, but I like my nuts, and T would come strip them off of me with nail clippers if I spill the beans.
    www.velocitybicycles.comWhere customers become friends, not simply a dollar sign.

  9. #9
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    Spilling the beans might not be a bad idea as folks out there considering new frames might hold off for a new Ventana... if they knew what was coming.

    DW link? Split Pivot? even a true horst?

    that and a tapered headtube would be sweet!
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Giant
    Spilling the beans might not be a bad idea as folks out there considering new frames might hold off for a new Ventana... if they knew what was coming.

    DW link? Split Pivot? even a true horst?

    that and a tapered headtube would be sweet!
    Just look at all the foaming at the cursor the new 2011 Turner 5-Spot has created since the bike show.......folks have been selling off their 2010's all for a few changes head angle, BB Height, Tapered Headtube and color......most of which can be had any day of the week with a semicustom Ventana. I think these changes are big.......It has to be since most of the channels have been silent.....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    Just look at all the foaming at the cursor the new 2011 Turner 5-Spot has created since the bike show.......folks have been selling off their 2010's all for a few changes head angle, BB Height, Tapered Headtube and color......most of which can be had any day of the week with a semicustom Ventana. I think these changes are big.......It has to be since most of the channels have been silent.....
    And dude, you match their frothing at the cursor all by yourself.

    EVERYBODY relax! I've posted this before, NO new suspension design, sticking to the tried and true.But refinements throughout the existing line and throughout the different parts of the frame design.

    I applaud the enthusiasm , but it's never been Ventana's MO to do wholesale changes, alway tried and true designs and refinements that benefit the ride experience, not change for change sake.

    The test mule is being flogged, +'s and -'s are being evaluated and we are all going to have to wait until late winter/early spring to find out what it's going to look like!

    Now, this channel is going back to silence, since I have a bunch of new toys to play with that have nothing to do with bikes...R/C stuff is just as addicting as bike stuff and the perfect cure for winter/raining for the umpteenth time in a row blues!
    Last edited by Ciclistagonzo; 12-29-2010 at 10:53 AM.
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  12. #12
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    Can't wait to see what they come out with!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    ... NO new suspension design, sticking to the tried and true.But refinements throughout the existing line and throughout the different parts of the frame design.

    ... but it's never been Ventana's MO to do wholesale changes, alway tried and true designs and refinements that benefit the ride experience, not change for change sake.

    ...
    that's exactly why i love the big V
    XC legs,
    DH balls...

  14. #14
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    bump

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero
    bump
    fer what?

    The details will be given late February early March if all goes accordingly to plan.
    www.velocitybicycles.comWhere customers become friends, not simply a dollar sign.

  16. #16
    post-ride specialist
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    I'm still wondering what "new changes" means.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    I'm still wondering what "new changes" means.
    New changes are different than old changes, don't ask any questions about that.

    Internal...sorry, I had though we'd be getting the straight jive as of the turn of the year, with products available in the spring.

    I suppose it doesn't really matter a whole lot to me!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero
    New changes are different than old changes, don't ask any questions about that.

    Internal...sorry, I had though we'd be getting the straight jive as of the turn of the year, with products available in the spring.

    I suppose it doesn't really matter a whole lot to me!
    I was told January 3rd. I would like to add another guess to what's new......142mm x 12mm rear swingarm format.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    I'm still wondering what "new changes" means.

    Me too........this is almost as mysterious as Foshizzle not posting anymore ! I hope they' re not related ! TIG.
    " A way to a deep freedom " - Tarja

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIGMAN
    .this is almost as mysterious as Foshizzle not posting anymore ! TIG.
    Sadly Fo's OCD has jumped him off the deep end, involving throttle twisting, smoke, spent fossil fuels and such. I fear we have lost him for good.....

    A moment of silence for Fo, please......................

    OK! good enough Party on!
    .
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internal14
    fer what?

    The details will be given late February early March if all goes accordingly to plan.

    Cool, my birthday is March 7th.
    .
    "...when your ride is nearly over, it seems to have lasted but an instant..."


    Stuff

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rootsandrocks
    What is that color is on that Ventana frame on the revised website? It looks like a light blue color. It's not candy blue is it?
    The colour looks a lot like Baby Blue. Very similar to the colour used on the Ventana team bikes a couple of years ago. Always been a fan of it. Very nice.

  23. #23
    ventanakaz
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    dual link

    so i just looked at the ventana websight and it said redesigned for 2011. i've always liked the active design of the suspension but didn't like the brake jack. it didn't bug me when i was doing XC and i didn't notice it to much till i started doing strictly the downhill and jumping thing after a buddy of mine died on the trail years ago. it's not good when your going down a rocky trail like dog bone at northstar for the first time, of course your not going to blast down not knowing the line so while going slow and draging your brakes to learn the line so you can go faster the next time, Your shock extends making it steeper than what it really is but if u let go of the brakes it's all good. so in this redesign of 2011 it should be a dual link like the canfield brothers design...i hope.
    i need to ride more. building jumps takes to much time...my other hobby is kicking the crap outta my home built mook jong.

  24. #24
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    jack?

    both of my Ventanas, an '01 La Bruja & a '10 Terremoto squat under braking. what model do you have? since all the models have the same design, i'm thinking you are confusing stiffening w/ jacking. and i don't mean that how it sounds
    breezy shade

  25. #25
    ventanakaz
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    eight frames

    don't get me wrong i love ventana and think they blow away many others in performance, Had eight different frames starting with the marble peak FS then upgraded to the next also had the custom thing done so i'm a loyal customer been to ventana like six or more times, my latest rig is the La bruja. as for squatting under braking the canfield brothers jedi frame squats when you brake. the ventana doesn't squat or sink into it's travel when you brake. the shock extends under braking forces, of course i don't feel it under brake neck speed because the rocks and bumps over come the forces but they are there. try braking on a downhill road and right when you hit both brakes look down at the rear shock it extends. you can do this on a level road too, just pedal up to speed then hit your brakes.
    i need to ride more. building jumps takes to much time...my other hobby is kicking the crap outta my home built mook jong.

  26. #26
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    temptation... strong... must... resist...
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    temptation... strong... must... resist...
    F@ck that - let her rip!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1962
    don't get me wrong i love ventana and think they blow away many others in performance, Had eight different frames starting with the marble peak FS then upgraded to the next also had the custom thing done so i'm a loyal customer been to ventana like six or more times, my latest rig is the La bruja. as for squatting under braking the canfield brothers jedi frame squats when you brake. the ventana doesn't squat or sink into it's travel when you brake. the shock extends under braking forces, of course i don't feel it under brake neck speed because the rocks and bumps over come the forces but they are there. try braking on a downhill road and right when you hit both brakes look down at the rear shock it extends. you can do this on a level road too, just pedal up to speed then hit your brakes.
    Do you have a telescoping suspension fork mounted to your bike? If so, that could be causing your issues and I suggest you remove it.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr
    Do you have a telescoping suspension fork mounted to your bike? If so, that could be causing your issues and I suggest you remove it.
    Good suggstion!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1962
    try braking on a downhill road and right when you hit both brakes look down at the rear shock it extends. you can do this on a level road too, just pedal up to speed then hit your brakes.
    Another way to avoid extension of the shock when you hit both brakes is to make sure you stand still when you brake. Then the shock most likely won't move at all!

  30. #30
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    April Fool's?

  31. #31
    tl1
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    Why bother then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    EVERYBODY relax! I've posted this before, NO new suspension design, sticking to the tried and true.But refinements throughout the existing line and throughout the different parts of the frame design.
    I've been really impressed with the Pivot suspension that retains Ventana-like lateral stiffness with some new level of pedaling efficiency. OK, Ventanas are welded in the USA and have the best customer service and customer relations in the business, that's something for sure. But is it enough?

  32. #32
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    I really don't think Ventana can afford not to do "anything" with the suspension design. I still have my X-5, and i don't think I will ever sell that bike, but i got my Mojo HD a couple of months ago and to tell the truth; that bike is in a different league.

    For Venatanas sake i really hope Sherwood has something substantial up his sleeve.

  33. #33
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    Since their complete suspension model line are to be upgraded, I don't think we're talking about small refinements. I believe Sherwoods hidden card will show Split Pivot. Itīs the most obvious suspension upgrade and still holding on to Ventanas philosophi.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faapaa
    Since their complete suspension model line are to be upgraded, I don't think we're talking about small refinements. I believe Sherwoods hidden card will show Split Pivot. Itīs the most obvious suspension upgrade and still holding on to Ventanas philosophi.
    The reason why their entire line up is effected is they use a lot of similiar parts so it makes sense to make the changes across the entire product line. I think it's been stated here by someone very close to HQs that the changes are not "wholesale" meaning suspension design. If I were to guess I would say the changes would be:

    Rocker redesign (looks more than function)
    A move away from the 27.2 seat post
    Tapered ZS head tube
    A move away from cartridge bearing pivots back to journal bearings
    Maybe some tube shaping
    92mm press fit BB (a la Pivot Cycles)
    142mm x 12mm Thru Axle rear swingarm on Ciclon and TM

    Aaron and Myke just confirm my list with a 1 or a 0


    .

  35. #35
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    Could'nt many of those upgrades be listed as options ā la 1,5" HT ?, it has to be something more innovative. I canīt remember they have announced changes in that way before, and a complete design line on sale.
    The current Ventana design works very well, the only design-issues I could think about is suspension locking under braking (which is most noticeble with long travel and/or large discs), and the falling rate on longer travel.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faapaa
    Could'nt many of those upgrades be listed as options ā la 1,5" HT ?, it has to be something more innovative. I canīt remember they have announced changes in that way before, and a complete design line on sale.
    The current Ventana design works very well, the only design-issues I could think about is suspension locking under braking (which is most noticeble with long travel and/or large discs), and the falling rate on longer travel.
    As stated in this thread and another by a mtbr member with close ties to Ventana HQ's it's not a suspension design change. Now if it ends up being a suspension design change then it would be disingenuous of said individual which ultimately would taint this persons good word. I tend to believe this mtbr member.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    Rocker redesign (looks more than function)
    A move away from the 27.2 seat post
    Tapered ZS head tube
    A move away from cartridge bearing pivots back to journal bearings
    Maybe some tube shaping
    92mm press fit BB (a la Pivot Cycles)
    142mm x 12mm Thru Axle rear swingarm on Ciclon and TM
    These are all great improvements but they add little in the way of improved function. I think a move to horst link would be the best, most seamless move for V's suspension, oh and shorter stays on the 29ers. It wouldn't be too difficult to implement and all of the custom frame options would be uneffected by it. I have a feeling this or any other linkage changes won't be made though. I just dont see SG paying a licensing fee to anyone or going through the RND for a new design. Hope I'm wrong.

  38. #38
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    29er hardtail

    I wonder if something made similar to the Fostickel geometry would be available with the big V head badge....seems to be the trend ( Canfield , Banshee, etc. ) ! TIG.

  39. #39
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    I don't yet own a Ventana, but it's one of the bikes I truly "lust" for. I hope they make meaningful changes, but I'm not sure wholesale new suspension is necessary.
    whatever...

  40. #40
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    I'll guess:

    Tapered HT
    30.9 or 31.6 ST's

    Everything else, classic Ventana.

  41. #41
    post-ride specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    ...
    Aaron and Myke just confirm my list with a 1 or a 0

    I'm neither of those, but I'm not above snarky interjection:

    Rocker redesign (looks more than function): Eh. There was a time this was an issue for me, back when I was running an air can and was bending shock bolts & spacers right and left. I thought, then, that the rockers should taper inward, al la Turner and others, to allow a shorter bolt. Then I thought, hey, bolts are way cheaper (off the shelf) than replacing the whole damn rocker. My prediction: I don't know. I don't think they'll change the shape just for cosmetics. Any change will come from a change in philosophy regarding rate curve.

    A move away from the 27.2 seat post: Pfft yeah. V must be the last MTB manufacturer out there that still uses that spec. I mean, even road bikes don't use that any more (other than on their budget lines). My prediction: almost a sure bet we'll see 30.9 or 31.8.

    Tapered ZS head tube: Straight 1-1/8 is done for, road and MTB. But I hope not tapered, that would be a shame too. I'd like to see it go 44mm straight-up. Give me C.C. AngleSet, or give me another brand's frame that accepts an AngleSet. (Actually this is a hope, I'd like to see the longevity & robustness of the AngleSet proven.) My prediction: it's almost a sure bet we'll see a new standard HS size. But what will be the standard and what will be the up-charge? Conservative-ism will probably give us "E2" (1.5->1-1/8) as standard, 44mm and 1.5 as up-charge options.

    A move away from cartridge bearing pivots back to journal bearings: Yeah, this would be cool. Would bear the loads better, blah, blah, blah. They could even save some weight. Reality is they would need more maintenance. This would be a tough sell, marketing-wise. My prediction: cartridge bearings will still rule the roost in V-land.

    Maybe some tube shaping: It's a great engineering way to get similar stiffness out of less material, and we did get to the cricket-bat down-tube, what, 5 years ago. My prediction: yeah, probably. The tubes are getting cheaper, and marketing pressures and all. Ride-wise this would likely have little impact, but oh-the internet (sub)storm. Remember the "dog-humping" talk of the Nomad back when it first cracked the straight-tube norm?

    92mm press fit BB (a la Pivot Cycles): Eh. Probably not. But even if they do, so what? BB-widths don't sell bikes, curvy tubes do.

    142mm x 12mm Thru Axle rear swingarm on Ciclon and TM: Yeah, another idea who's time has come. Or should I say, skewers on MTBs is an idea who's time has passed. My prediction: yeah, probably.



    Last edited by icegeek; 01-31-2011 at 09:39 PM.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  42. #42
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    snippets of a never-sent letter to Sherwood

    OK, so I riffed on MB4L's list a little, I'll add to it with some snippets from a letter to Sherwood I tapped-out one night a couple months ago, but never got around to sending because I could see that it was leading to spec-ing a fully custom bike (that I couldn't afford)...

    Give us a 6.5" T-moto. The extra 0.2" over current doesn't mean squat, but you're keeping up with a market that's gone from 6 to 6.5 or 7". Most importantly, push the shock stroke out to at least 2.5". Down with high-leverage ratios.

    Oh, and give us back the X-brace design. Stand-over clearance, frame stiffness and shock-stroke space gain in the balance.

    Did I mention AngleSet? Go for 44mm straight as standard.

    Geometry tweaked around a modern 180mm fork. Oh, and I'm not getting any shorter, but my stems sure are. I run a 50mm now, compared with that 120mm I put on my first X5. Think a little longer in the top tube but a slightly steeper head angle to keep the front wheel out front far enough for steeps-stability, but still have some technical agility.

    Open up some clearance for fatter tires in the rear. And go through-axle on the swing arm for sure. A pinch-clamp design is great. That Maxle-thing is silly.

    Make the ISCG tabs work with a HammerSchmidt out of the box. I don't use one, but it's the principle.

    Run the hoses & cables down the bottom tube, rather than along the top. It really does work well. Oh, and please, no more cable stops. Solid housing is the only way to roll. The saddle-style hose guides that use zip ties work great.

    Finally, up the hardware spec. 5mm hex minimum. Or better yet, go Torx. Those 4mm bolts just make me wonder when I'll have to drill them out.







    ...Now I'm getting little verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves. Let me give you a topic: Ventana is neither a window, nor a contemporary mountain bike.
    Last edited by icegeek; 01-31-2011 at 11:23 PM.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovin
    I'll guess:

    Tapered HT
    30.9 or 31.6 ST's

    Everything else, classic Ventana.

    Yeah, most likely.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  44. #44
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    This just in. Check website front page for the answers to your questions/musings,guys.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scubble
    This just in. Check website front page for the answers to your questions/musings,guys.

    Nice


  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    Nice


    I can hardly wait to see the "To-Done" List. I wonder if they are taking pre-orders


    .

  47. #47
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    Holy cow Sherwood. I'd better start saving my pennies. I guess my two Ventanas' will be considered "classic"?

    Great to see the "list". ALL things (not sure about the BB?) I want. No wonder SG has been so quite lately... he's been busy!

    Ole!
    .
    "...when your ride is nearly over, it seems to have lasted but an instant..."


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  48. #48
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    Finally!

    But what does Optimized pivot position mean? I guess it is a longshot to hope it means a new suspension design...?

  49. #49
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    Drat , I may have to replace my 05 La Bruja with a a new V ! TIG.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    I can hardly wait to see the "To-Done" List. I wonder if they are taking pre-orders


    .
    Will some of these changes work on previous models. Like will the shorter swing arm if changed on the El Rey. Work also on a 08 frame.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

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