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  1. #76
    JmZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by redranger
    With all the changes coming and being in the market for a new ride next year, will the trade in program apply to the new models, designs, or whatever the word may be. Thanks
    Just asked that question this week straight from the source. The old Marble Peak frame I've got is worth a discount on the new frames.

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  2. #77
    ventanakaz
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    Optimized

    how about some Parallel Links.
    i need to ride more. building jumps takes to much time...my other hobby is kicking the crap outta my home built mook jong.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1962
    how about some Parallel Links.
    Turning off the suspension while pedaling is pretty far from optimal. Really, selling them with diet pills would get better results.

  4. #79
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    I really have no idea what these changes mean as far as benefits. Anyone care to take take them line by line and walk me through why I would upgrade from my El Rey? I'll buy you a beer.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killrop
    I really have no idea what these changes mean as far as benefits. Anyone care to take take them line by line and walk me through why I would upgrade from my El Rey? I'll buy you a beer.
    Line by line, feel free to add to what I think:
    - Tapered head tubes: aligned with the rest of the industry
    - 30.9mm seat tubes: aligned with the rest of the inudstry
    - Pressfit 30 BB: Not sure I like this one. From what I know, that would mean changing out any X-type cranksets. I'd like confirmation on this one.
    - Rear 142mm thru-axle: while good, another expensive change (rear hub). I have no idea who makes the hubs in this size. Haven't researched it yet. Probably Hadley, but not sure about anyone else.
    - New rockers: probably necessary with the new suspension design. Other than that, no idea.
    - Optimized pivot position: This is probably the biggest change to the bike as it affects suspension behavoir.. I'd like to hear rider feedback on this one.
    - Lower BB height: Good thing. A lower BB height makes the bike feel more stable.
    - Slacker seat angles: Good thing, better stability for riding downhill (please confirm, but this is my minimal understanding).
    - Shorter chainstays: Good thing, makes the bike feel more maneuverable/flickable.
    - Longer/lower top tubes: For me, the longer TT isn't necessarily a good thing, but for the bigger bikes it's a good thing. But I'm sure semi-custom TT is still an option Lower: good, increased standover height.
    - Lighter weight: no explanation necessary
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  6. #81
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes
    - Rear 142mm thru-axle: while good, another expensive change (rear hub). I have no idea who makes the hubs in this size. Haven't researched it yet. Probably Hadley, but not sure about anyone else.
    Hubs like the Hope Pro 2 can be directly converted to 142mm with spacers...others will probably follow

    Hubs should not be a problem going forward, since it seems 142mm is catching on....

  7. #82
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    PRESS FIT 30 has several adapters available that allow for Standard cranks (X-type).
    Rear 142, the dropouts will be replaceable, ie, you can buy standard 10mm and upgrade to 142 later, if your keen on running you current wheels.

    Edit: Corrected to Press Fit, not BB30. Still Adapters available to run X-types.
    Last edited by Ciclistagonzo; 02-09-2011 at 03:21 PM.
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  8. #83
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    Doesn't a 150mm hub give you a symetrical wheel? If so shouldn't that be the standard width hub and not be just for downhill?

  9. #84
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    New stickers?

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero
    New stickers?

    Hey now, let's take this step by step. We can't go leaping on to the next-lasted designs just to keep pace with fashion. Function is the core, stick to the core principles man! Straight-font has proven itself time and again as to most efficient path to structural soundness, curvy fonts are just frill and frippery. Eschew the bendy bendy, rejoice in the straight, the strong, the stiff! The proud.




    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    BB30 has several adapters available that allow for Standard cranks (X-type).
    Rear 142, the dropouts will be replaceable, ie, you can buy standard 10mm and upgrade to 142 later, if your keen on running you current wheels.
    Yeah, you're not helping me here I have nothing to do but PT for the next few months and drool over the new designs and read ride reports.
    MTB4Her.com: mountain bike site for women, by women

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes
    Yeah, you're not helping me here
    Just trying to help you out! ...
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  13. #88
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    +1. Only problem is the chainline and q factor would get messed up. A 150 rear means a wider BB, not a problem on a DH bike but could be an issue on xc bikes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff in Bend
    Doesn't a 150mm hub give you a symetrical wheel? If so shouldn't that be the standard width hub and not be just for downhill?

  14. #89
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    I see a conflict with shorter stays and slacker seat angles. If you shorten the stays you 'should' need a steeper seat angle, unless it as a bend to it or intersects the downtube in front of the BB.

    I imagine the longer TT is because he will be using a slacker seat angle. Also, Reach and Stack measurements are much more telling of proper fit vs Tob Tube length. TT measurements don't account for ST angle which obviously changes the cockpit fit. Hopefully SG will start using them on his geo charts.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue
    I see a conflict with shorter stays and slacker seat angles. If you shorten the stays you 'should' need a steeper seat angle, unless it as a bend to it or intersects the downtube in front of the BB.

    I imagine the longer TT is because he will be using a slacker seat angle. Also, Reach and Stack measurements are much more telling of proper fit vs Tob Tube length. TT measurements don't account for ST angle which obviously changes the cockpit fit. Hopefully SG will start using them on his geo charts.

    I agree that they should be included, and that R&S are better measurements of fit...

    when the rider is standing on the bike.

    Sitting, the TT/SA number comes back into play. That is why you see R&S numbers published for more aggressive disciplines, such as FR/DH, as they tend to ride bikes more out of the saddle than in.

  16. #91
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    Yep. R&S also has a place in XC fit because your proper seated fit relationship is first to the BB/pedals. Slacker SA = more fore positioning of saddle shortening TT. For me, whenever I set up a bike that is going to be pedaled up and down the rasied saddle position always has the exact same relationship with the BB regardless of SA.

  17. #92
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue
    I see a conflict with shorter stays and slacker seat angles. If you shorten the stays you 'should' need a steeper seat angle, unless it as a bend to it or intersects the downtube in front of the BB.

    I imagine the longer TT is because he will be using a slacker seat angle. Also, Reach and Stack measurements are much more telling of proper fit vs Tob Tube length. TT measurements don't account for ST angle which obviously changes the cockpit fit. Hopefully SG will start using them on his geo charts.
    Somebody has been drinking to much of the Turner Kool-Aid Reach and Stack is just one way to determine how a frame will fit. It's not the be-all end-all to frame fitment.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    Somebody has been drinking to much of the Turner Kool-Aid Reach and Stack is just one way to determine how a frame will fit. It's not the be-all end-all to frame fitment.
    Not sure what this has to do with Turner. Please derail this thread even more by explaining what you mean?

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue
    Not sure what this has to do with Turner. Please derail this thread even more by explaining what you mean?
    I derailed it the same way you did by trying to guess WHY Sherwood is going with longer top tubes. Just looking at Stack and Reach will not yield a proper frame fitment is what I stated. Unless you designed the frame it's just arm engineering.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    I derailed it the same way you did by trying to guess WHY Sherwood is going with longer top tubes. Just looking at Stack and Reach will not yield a proper frame fitment is what I stated. Unless you designed the frame it's just arm engineering.
    Forums are for this type of thing; throwing out ideas, discussing, heaven forbid even 'guessing', etc. I don't think I said anything negative about Ventana, ever for that matter. You should find another tree to bark up.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue
    Forums are for this type of thing; throwing out ideas, discussing, heaven forbid even 'guessing', etc. I don't think I said anything negative about Ventana, ever for that matter. You should find another tree to bark up.
    read my post, I didn't say you said anything bad about Ventana. I know you use to own a Ventana and now ride a 5 Spot. I clearly stated Reach and Stack in not the be-all or end-all to frame fitment. What about how head tube angle effects Reach? What about Saddle to Handle height? Just a couple of fitment variables.

    I'm not barking just pointing out your statement is not complete.......Like most on this sit I have an opinion.

  22. #97
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    I read it. You jumped up my @ss for suggesting SG use R&S and suggesting that it's a more important fitment measurement than TT. Which I think it is. Then you said something about drinking Turner coolaid. We can go back and forth on who's right or wrong but let's just move on. No hard feelings

  23. #98
    T , V , & K Rider
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    Raw option.......I like them buff chicks ! TIG.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIGMAN
    Raw option.......I like them buff chicks ! TIG.
    PFFFFT!!! LOL! Great, time to clean Diet Pepsi off my Monitors!
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  25. #100
    ventanakaz
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    i couldn't take it anymore so i had to find out for myself. i was hoping they would revamp the la bruja but i kinda knew from what i was told before. the sales aren't there for the freeride and downhill frames. but for you XC and AM guys you lucky b*sturds the new changes look great, Can't wait till the end of march to see the improvements they look to be great. i wasn't sure about the pressfit BB and never heard about them but now after the talk i think it will be a great idea and lighter. no more threads to strip out. the bad thing the changes will not be interchangeable with the old stuff so no upgrading your last years and older frames. the great thing is tradein or sell your old ventanas to get the sweet new stuff. so i guess i'll have to stay with my la bruja and can't get one with the new changes. you other guys are lucky.
    i need to ride more. building jumps takes to much time...my other hobby is kicking the crap outta my home built mook jong.

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