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  1. #26
    ventanakaz
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    eight frames

    don't get me wrong i love ventana and think they blow away many others in performance, Had eight different frames starting with the marble peak FS then upgraded to the next also had the custom thing done so i'm a loyal customer been to ventana like six or more times, my latest rig is the La bruja. as for squatting under braking the canfield brothers jedi frame squats when you brake. the ventana doesn't squat or sink into it's travel when you brake. the shock extends under braking forces, of course i don't feel it under brake neck speed because the rocks and bumps over come the forces but they are there. try braking on a downhill road and right when you hit both brakes look down at the rear shock it extends. you can do this on a level road too, just pedal up to speed then hit your brakes.
    i need to ride more. building jumps takes to much time...my other hobby is kicking the crap outta my home built mook jong.

  2. #27
    post-ride specialist
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    temptation... strong... must... resist...
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    temptation... strong... must... resist...
    F@ck that - let her rip!

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1962
    don't get me wrong i love ventana and think they blow away many others in performance, Had eight different frames starting with the marble peak FS then upgraded to the next also had the custom thing done so i'm a loyal customer been to ventana like six or more times, my latest rig is the La bruja. as for squatting under braking the canfield brothers jedi frame squats when you brake. the ventana doesn't squat or sink into it's travel when you brake. the shock extends under braking forces, of course i don't feel it under brake neck speed because the rocks and bumps over come the forces but they are there. try braking on a downhill road and right when you hit both brakes look down at the rear shock it extends. you can do this on a level road too, just pedal up to speed then hit your brakes.
    Do you have a telescoping suspension fork mounted to your bike? If so, that could be causing your issues and I suggest you remove it.

  5. #30
    Bigger is better!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr
    Do you have a telescoping suspension fork mounted to your bike? If so, that could be causing your issues and I suggest you remove it.
    Good suggstion!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1962
    try braking on a downhill road and right when you hit both brakes look down at the rear shock it extends. you can do this on a level road too, just pedal up to speed then hit your brakes.
    Another way to avoid extension of the shock when you hit both brakes is to make sure you stand still when you brake. Then the shock most likely won't move at all!

  6. #31
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    April Fool's?

  7. #32
    tl1
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    Why bother then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    EVERYBODY relax! I've posted this before, NO new suspension design, sticking to the tried and true.But refinements throughout the existing line and throughout the different parts of the frame design.
    I've been really impressed with the Pivot suspension that retains Ventana-like lateral stiffness with some new level of pedaling efficiency. OK, Ventanas are welded in the USA and have the best customer service and customer relations in the business, that's something for sure. But is it enough?

  8. #33
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    I really don't think Ventana can afford not to do "anything" with the suspension design. I still have my X-5, and i don't think I will ever sell that bike, but i got my Mojo HD a couple of months ago and to tell the truth; that bike is in a different league.

    For Venatanas sake i really hope Sherwood has something substantial up his sleeve.

  9. #34
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    Since their complete suspension model line are to be upgraded, I don't think we're talking about small refinements. I believe Sherwoods hidden card will show Split Pivot. Itīs the most obvious suspension upgrade and still holding on to Ventanas philosophi.

  10. #35
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faapaa
    Since their complete suspension model line are to be upgraded, I don't think we're talking about small refinements. I believe Sherwoods hidden card will show Split Pivot. Itīs the most obvious suspension upgrade and still holding on to Ventanas philosophi.
    The reason why their entire line up is effected is they use a lot of similiar parts so it makes sense to make the changes across the entire product line. I think it's been stated here by someone very close to HQs that the changes are not "wholesale" meaning suspension design. If I were to guess I would say the changes would be:

    Rocker redesign (looks more than function)
    A move away from the 27.2 seat post
    Tapered ZS head tube
    A move away from cartridge bearing pivots back to journal bearings
    Maybe some tube shaping
    92mm press fit BB (a la Pivot Cycles)
    142mm x 12mm Thru Axle rear swingarm on Ciclon and TM

    Aaron and Myke just confirm my list with a 1 or a 0


    .

  11. #36
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    Could'nt many of those upgrades be listed as options ā la 1,5" HT ?, it has to be something more innovative. I canīt remember they have announced changes in that way before, and a complete design line on sale.
    The current Ventana design works very well, the only design-issues I could think about is suspension locking under braking (which is most noticeble with long travel and/or large discs), and the falling rate on longer travel.

  12. #37
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faapaa
    Could'nt many of those upgrades be listed as options ā la 1,5" HT ?, it has to be something more innovative. I canīt remember they have announced changes in that way before, and a complete design line on sale.
    The current Ventana design works very well, the only design-issues I could think about is suspension locking under braking (which is most noticeble with long travel and/or large discs), and the falling rate on longer travel.
    As stated in this thread and another by a mtbr member with close ties to Ventana HQ's it's not a suspension design change. Now if it ends up being a suspension design change then it would be disingenuous of said individual which ultimately would taint this persons good word. I tend to believe this mtbr member.

  13. #38
    destination unknown
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    Rocker redesign (looks more than function)
    A move away from the 27.2 seat post
    Tapered ZS head tube
    A move away from cartridge bearing pivots back to journal bearings
    Maybe some tube shaping
    92mm press fit BB (a la Pivot Cycles)
    142mm x 12mm Thru Axle rear swingarm on Ciclon and TM
    These are all great improvements but they add little in the way of improved function. I think a move to horst link would be the best, most seamless move for V's suspension, oh and shorter stays on the 29ers. It wouldn't be too difficult to implement and all of the custom frame options would be uneffected by it. I have a feeling this or any other linkage changes won't be made though. I just dont see SG paying a licensing fee to anyone or going through the RND for a new design. Hope I'm wrong.

  14. #39
    T , V , & K Rider
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    29er hardtail

    I wonder if something made similar to the Fostickel geometry would be available with the big V head badge....seems to be the trend ( Canfield , Banshee, etc. ) ! TIG.

  15. #40
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    I don't yet own a Ventana, but it's one of the bikes I truly "lust" for. I hope they make meaningful changes, but I'm not sure wholesale new suspension is necessary.
    whatever...

  16. #41
    Team Chilidog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by steadite
    I don't yet own a Ventana, but it's one of the bikes I truly "lust" for. I hope they make meaningful changes, but I'm not sure wholesale new suspension is necessary.
    Given how Sherwood is, it'll be interesting to see. I doubt it's a wholesale suspension change, given the sources here, and I doubt it'll be another rocker design change (the 140mm and 160mm are much better than their predecessors), but probably something with the tubing, bearings, overall geo, etc. Note this is only my guess, I have no insider info.

    The reason El Ciclón exists is because people kept wanting a bike that was the El Salt, but with 5" of travel and with no X-brace. I'm sure whatever Sherwood and the team are doing, they're testing it thoroughly and keeping their customers in mind. I love my Ventanas, and found that having the semi-custom ability is HUGE for me picking a bike. I'd love to see what they do next, since they seem to accomodate every wheel size out there.
    MTB4Her.com: mountain bike site for women, by women

  17. #42
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    I'll guess:

    Tapered HT
    30.9 or 31.6 ST's

    Everything else, classic Ventana.

  18. #43
    post-ride specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    ...
    Aaron and Myke just confirm my list with a 1 or a 0

    I'm neither of those, but I'm not above snarky interjection:

    Rocker redesign (looks more than function): Eh. There was a time this was an issue for me, back when I was running an air can and was bending shock bolts & spacers right and left. I thought, then, that the rockers should taper inward, al la Turner and others, to allow a shorter bolt. Then I thought, hey, bolts are way cheaper (off the shelf) than replacing the whole damn rocker. My prediction: I don't know. I don't think they'll change the shape just for cosmetics. Any change will come from a change in philosophy regarding rate curve.

    A move away from the 27.2 seat post: Pfft yeah. V must be the last MTB manufacturer out there that still uses that spec. I mean, even road bikes don't use that any more (other than on their budget lines). My prediction: almost a sure bet we'll see 30.9 or 31.8.

    Tapered ZS head tube: Straight 1-1/8 is done for, road and MTB. But I hope not tapered, that would be a shame too. I'd like to see it go 44mm straight-up. Give me C.C. AngleSet, or give me another brand's frame that accepts an AngleSet. (Actually this is a hope, I'd like to see the longevity & robustness of the AngleSet proven.) My prediction: it's almost a sure bet we'll see a new standard HS size. But what will be the standard and what will be the up-charge? Conservative-ism will probably give us "E2" (1.5->1-1/8) as standard, 44mm and 1.5 as up-charge options.

    A move away from cartridge bearing pivots back to journal bearings: Yeah, this would be cool. Would bear the loads better, blah, blah, blah. They could even save some weight. Reality is they would need more maintenance. This would be a tough sell, marketing-wise. My prediction: cartridge bearings will still rule the roost in V-land.

    Maybe some tube shaping: It's a great engineering way to get similar stiffness out of less material, and we did get to the cricket-bat down-tube, what, 5 years ago. My prediction: yeah, probably. The tubes are getting cheaper, and marketing pressures and all. Ride-wise this would likely have little impact, but oh-the internet (sub)storm. Remember the "dog-humping" talk of the Nomad back when it first cracked the straight-tube norm?

    92mm press fit BB (a la Pivot Cycles): Eh. Probably not. But even if they do, so what? BB-widths don't sell bikes, curvy tubes do.

    142mm x 12mm Thru Axle rear swingarm on Ciclon and TM: Yeah, another idea who's time has come. Or should I say, skewers on MTBs is an idea who's time has passed. My prediction: yeah, probably.



    Last edited by icegeek; 01-31-2011 at 09:39 PM.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  19. #44
    post-ride specialist
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    snippets of a never-sent letter to Sherwood

    OK, so I riffed on MB4L's list a little, I'll add to it with some snippets from a letter to Sherwood I tapped-out one night a couple months ago, but never got around to sending because I could see that it was leading to spec-ing a fully custom bike (that I couldn't afford)...

    Give us a 6.5" T-moto. The extra 0.2" over current doesn't mean squat, but you're keeping up with a market that's gone from 6 to 6.5 or 7". Most importantly, push the shock stroke out to at least 2.5". Down with high-leverage ratios.

    Oh, and give us back the X-brace design. Stand-over clearance, frame stiffness and shock-stroke space gain in the balance.

    Did I mention AngleSet? Go for 44mm straight as standard.

    Geometry tweaked around a modern 180mm fork. Oh, and I'm not getting any shorter, but my stems sure are. I run a 50mm now, compared with that 120mm I put on my first X5. Think a little longer in the top tube but a slightly steeper head angle to keep the front wheel out front far enough for steeps-stability, but still have some technical agility.

    Open up some clearance for fatter tires in the rear. And go through-axle on the swing arm for sure. A pinch-clamp design is great. That Maxle-thing is silly.

    Make the ISCG tabs work with a HammerSchmidt out of the box. I don't use one, but it's the principle.

    Run the hoses & cables down the bottom tube, rather than along the top. It really does work well. Oh, and please, no more cable stops. Solid housing is the only way to roll. The saddle-style hose guides that use zip ties work great.

    Finally, up the hardware spec. 5mm hex minimum. Or better yet, go Torx. Those 4mm bolts just make me wonder when I'll have to drill them out.







    ...Now I'm getting little verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves. Let me give you a topic: Ventana is neither a window, nor a contemporary mountain bike.
    Last edited by icegeek; 01-31-2011 at 11:23 PM.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  20. #45
    post-ride specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovin
    I'll guess:

    Tapered HT
    30.9 or 31.6 ST's

    Everything else, classic Ventana.

    Yeah, most likely.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  21. #46
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    This just in. Check website front page for the answers to your questions/musings,guys.

  22. #47
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scubble
    This just in. Check website front page for the answers to your questions/musings,guys.

    Nice


  23. #48
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    Nice


    I can hardly wait to see the "To-Done" List. I wonder if they are taking pre-orders


    .

  24. #49
    Team Fearless Descender
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    Holy cow Sherwood. I'd better start saving my pennies. I guess my two Ventanas' will be considered "classic"?

    Great to see the "list". ALL things (not sure about the BB?) I want. No wonder SG has been so quite lately... he's been busy!

    Ole!
    .
    "...when your ride is nearly over, it seems to have lasted but an instant..."


    Stuff

  25. #50
    Bigger is better!
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    Finally!

    But what does Optimized pivot position mean? I guess it is a longshot to hope it means a new suspension design...?

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