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  1. #1
    Captain Underpants
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    Need input on El Padrino sizing and other questions

    I’m currently shopping for a frame to replace my On-One Inbred, and have been giving the El Padrino some serious thought. I really like the designe, construction and finish of the frame, but I have a couple of sizing questions that need to be resolved before I feel comfortable pulling the trigger. I’ll be calling Sherwood and getting his input, but thought I could ask other El Com/El Pad owners as well. I have also spent a considerable amount of time wading through posts gleaning information.

    Sizing and current setup: I’m 6’2”, sizing inseam is about 35”. I have been riding a 21” frame with about 7-1/2” (190mm) of seat post showing. Bike has 72/23 deg HT/ST angles, a 100mm 15deg riser stem, (but I need to run it a tad shorter)180mm cranks. I run the saddle almost all the way forward to get proper pedaling position, though if I ran a shorter stem I’d move it back a cm. The effective steeper STA is not a problem for me, and seems to help on standing climbs. (Pictures below).

    Questions:

    1. Based on my calculations, I would go with a 22” frame. Correct? I like the 24.5” TT, as I anything over that would be too long for me

    2. Besides lengthening the effective TT (for some people), what effect does running a slightly steeper STA have? The Inbred has a 73 deg STA, so the El Padrino is not far off.

    3. Does the 70.5 degree HT angle slow the steering down at all? I’m guessing not.

    4. While I’d run it with a Reba at 80mm, anyone running the Reba or new Fox at 100mm and have anything to say about the handling with a longer fork?

    5. How does the bike handle? Impressions?

    6. How compliant is the ride?

    Thanks in advance for your input.

    CJ
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  2. #2
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    I'm an inch shorter than you. I rode a friend's medium Inbred and loved it. I have a lot of time on a 20" El Comandante and love it as well. Most would say the ETT is too short for me, but I love it.

    You should be fine seeing where you run your seat. The ride is much less complaint than the inbred, but it feels like a rocket.

    I run a 100mm fork and love the steering, probably my favorite part of the bike. I don't know if it is the stiffness around the head tube area or the slack head angle, but it is so precise and predictable compared to the steel hardtails I've ridden. Hard to explain, but the handling is confidence inspiring. The more techy the better it compares to the steel bikes.

    It's the best handling hardtail I've ever been on. Never burns me in the rough stuff. I personally would like the chainstays to be a little (1/2") shorter as the front end feels a little heavy compared to bikes like the Inbred or Niner EMD. This is mainly mental on my part because I don't really notice it much on the trail, but can sense the difference in the street when riding other bikes back to back. I'm sure Sherwood has his reasons, and maybe the long stays contribute to the brilliant handling.

    For seated geared climbing, the longer stays might be of benefit, for standing climbing, you tend to spin out a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  3. #3
    Captain Underpants
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    Thanks for the info. I figure the frame will be a little stiffer than the Inbred, but I'm willing to trade stiffness for handling precision on the trail. I don't find the Inbred all that compliant anyway, compared to other steel frames I have ridden. Still a great bike for the money.

    Glad to hear the bike steers very predictably, and that it does well in the tecchy stuff. Exactly what I am looking for. I'm considering the new Fox fork for the bike, would be a good combination (we'll see what Sherwood says)

    I too am not a fan of long GF style top tubes, I think they make it difficult to achieve optimum position on the bike (at least for some riders) and they can affect handling and proper stem selection as well.

    Thanks again.

    CJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    I'm an inch shorter than you. I rode a friend's medium Inbred and loved it. I have a lot of time on a 20" El Comandante and love it as well. Most would say the ETT is too short for me, but I love it.

    You should be fine seeing where you run your seat. The ride is much less complaint than the inbred, but it feels like a rocket.

    I run a 100mm fork and love the steering, probably my favorite part of the bike. I don't know if it is the stiffness around the head tube area or the slack head angle, but it is so precise and predictable compared to the steel hardtails I've ridden. Hard to explain, but the handling is confidence inspiring. The more techy the better it compares to the steel bikes.

    It's the best handling hardtail I've ever been on. Never burns me in the rough stuff. I personally would like the chainstays to be a little (1/2") shorter as the front end feels a little heavy compared to bikes like the Inbred or Niner EMD. This is mainly mental on my part because I don't really notice it much on the trail, but can sense the difference in the street when riding other bikes back to back. I'm sure Sherwood has his reasons, and maybe the long stays contribute to the brilliant handling.

    For seated geared climbing, the longer stays might be of benefit, for standing climbing, you tend to spin out a bit.

  4. #4
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    El Padrino

    I'm 6'3" / 35" inseam with looong arms.....and ride a 22" with 120mm stem. I would like a longer top tube.....knowing now I should have ordered a 22" with a 25.5" long top tube. I'm a big fan of the GF long top tube and short stem....but spent four years riding a GF Sugar. I run my bike rigid (Bontrager Switchblade). The bike handles very well for an aluminum frame.....the hardtail it replaced was Ti....which is night & day different than aluminum. If I were to use a front suspension fork I would try the new Fox.

    I would definitely call Sherwood before pulling the trigger
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  5. #5
    Captain Underpants
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    I'm 6'3" / 35" inseam with looong arms.....and ride a 22" with 120mm stem. I would like a longer top tube.....knowing now I should have ordered a 22" with a 25.5" long top tube. I'm a big fan of the GF long top tube and short stem....but spent four years riding a GF Sugar. I run my bike rigid (Bontrager Switchblade). The bike handles very well for an aluminum frame.....the hardtail it replaced was Ti....which is night & day different than aluminum. If I were to use a front suspension fork I would try the new Fox.

    I would definitely call Sherwood before pulling the trigger
    Sweet looking bike!

    I talked to Sherwood today and will be ordering a 22" in the glimmer dust from Larry. Sherwood was very helpful, and anwered all my questions, including the harebrained ones. I am thinking of the new Fox, will run it at 80mm, just wondering how the addtional offest will affect the handling. It should make it quicker, but by how much? Hoping Ventanarama can help me with that question. Prob not a quick as the Inbred with its 72deg HTA, but that is fine with me. If I do go with the Fox, I have to order new brakes (Fox is postmount) and will prob go 180/160 XT's--I like the way they modulate, and since I have dropped a bunch of weight the Louise FR's that I have are overkill.

  6. #6
    moe.
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    ... and if we just ... Tomorrow my El Padrino will be built.

    I have a 20" and I am 6' 0" tall. I was going to order a 22" but Sherwood talked me out of it. I will start with 100mm stem. I rum a 90mm stem on my large Sultan but I think that top tube is slightly less than an inch longer (Padrino 23.8" TT and Sultan 24.5"). I will be running a Fox and am excited about the increased offset on it. I will probably start running the Fox at 100mm to try it out before going to the recommended 80 mm. There is an excellent explanation on a Speedgoat blog of why the increased offset (compared to the Reba) will be an improvement on frames with decreasing HAs. See Sqeaky's post in this thread: Increased fork offset & impact on handling The F29 on my Sultan is amazing. I thought the Reba was a good fork but the fox is plush, stiff and handles great.

    The build I have will be full 08 XT with Salsa promoto carbon bars, Thomson Stem, King HS, Easton EC90 seatpost. WTB Silverado saddle, Crossmax29 wheels and Crossmark tires. I will be happy if its under 25 lbs. My Sultan comes in at 27 lbs but I have a lot of XTR on it.
    "These people take a dump thatís a bigger difference than the a 5 Spot and a Blur LTc." DT

  7. #7
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    FWIW, I have ridden my Comandante with a WB Through axle fork (43mm offset I think), and a Reba (38mm) and noticed no difference in handling.

    I also have found that I like running a 70mm stem for my 6'1" self. Seems crazy, but I am digging the smaller cockpit (until I hit the bars with my knees spinning out on a climb). I started around 100 and slowly went shorter, and keep liking it. I also run a 50mm stem on my FS 29" bike with 24"ETT and have zero problems climbing the steepest of steeps.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  8. #8
    Captain Underpants
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    The more I read about the Fox, the more it seems like it is the fork for me. Sounds like the additional offset will not be an issue, in fact I would think it would be ideal with a HT angle of 70.5.

    And I'm def going to go with the new XT's, unless Larry can McGuyver me a Postmount Louise caliper--Looks like BTI has them for $100, but those new XTs look durn sexy

    I have been riding the Sultan with a 70mm stem and have become a big beleiver in smaller cockpits. No more stretched out feeeling, and having the bars a bit closer on climbs is s bonus for me. I'll start with a 100mm stem, but will probably end up with a 70, according to my stem length calcuator anyway. For a proper fit on my Sultan, looks like I need a 50.

    Sultan at 27? Wow! Mine weighs close to 30 (with no XTR)

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