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  1. #1
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    Just how big Ventana is?

    Just out of curiosity.

    How many frames does Ventana produce each year?

    I mean, it's a boutique brand but how big is it compared to others? Turner and such.
    Former Homer...Ventana convert: extreme poseur!

  2. #2
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    interesting question...I'd like to know too.... I'd expect they would be similar to Nicolai (about 2000 a year).... but I could could be badly mistaken...so better to know from somebody with some authority on the matter

  3. #3
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    That'd be = 38 bikes a week avg. and I highly doubt that. Would be interesting to know, but what do you know of other companies productions? I'd more guess along maybe 20 a week would be a lot if it's all in house.

    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    interesting question...I'd like to know too.... I'd expect they would be similar to Nicolai (about 2000 a year).... but I could could be badly mistaken...so better to know from somebody with some authority on the matter
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  4. #4
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    well..the nicolai data I heard it from the horse's mouth when I visited Nicolai with Whafe a couple weeks ago.... we also saw the actual production schedule...it was pretty packed...

    I have no idea on Ventana.... Nicolai only builds "ordered bikes" and doesn't have any "frame stock", I have read here that Ventana does have raw triangles in stock and they are painted as orders come in (or something of the sort) on the std. sizes.... so I suppose they could reach those numbers...

    I'm curious too

  5. #5
    Proud lame eBiker
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    800-1200units/year.....would be a pretty good guestimate.

    I'm sure you could call Teresa on Monday and she'll tell ya.

    Maybe we should start a betting pool, and the one closest to the actual numbers get a free der. hanger or something. mmmmm maybe a headbadge?

    Ventana should hire me for promo stuff like this and run it through the website!








    this post was done with tongue firmly planted in cheek. ;-p
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  6. #6
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    Cove builds 4,000 frames a year I was told. Which seems an aweful lot.
    Former Homer...Ventana convert: extreme poseur!

  7. #7
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    This is something I have wondered before as well...

    I once read that they only make about 500 frames a year, but that was a few years back. I am going to guess about 800 now. What does the winner get?

    Todd

  8. #8
    Proud lame eBiker
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    Quote Originally Posted by uinta
    What does the winner get?

    Todd

    I dunno but I can tell you this....I aint betting because I'll win, and then have to give whatever it is back. Happened already with a Comandante!
    www.velocitybicycles.comWhere customers become friends, not simply a dollar sign.

  9. #9
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    Yeah, htat was a sad story. I mean you acted like a gentleman but....



    man, a commandante!
    Former Homer...Ventana convert: extreme poseur!

  10. #10
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    Screw being a "gentleman"!
    I would've kept it!

    Previous years 500 would have been the high, this year it's over 700. But no where near the 2000 posted before.

    In camparo Turner puts out over 2000 frames, and Ellspuke is near or above that as well.
    But both of those brands are mass produced frames. Sorry homers, but when you outsource ALL the construction of the frame it's no longer a boutique brand.
    It's just a boutique "Marketed" frame.

    -A
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Screw being a "gentleman"!
    I would've kept it!

    Previous years 500 would have been the high, this year it's over 700. But no where near the 2000 posted before.

    In camparo Turner puts out over 2000 frames, and Ellspuke is near or above that as well.
    But both of those brands are mass produced frames. Sorry homers, but when you outsource ALL the construction of the frame it's no longer a boutique brand.
    It's just a boutique "Marketed" frame.

    -A
    I'm not a Homer, but as far as I know, Turners were always outsourced. Didn't Ventana make the first Turner frames? Just because the welders work for a different company, that disqualifies the brand from being a boutique brand? In my mind, it was a small company that made special bikes. Maybe Turner and Ellsbag are approaching Giant and Specialized numbers (I doubt it).
    Don

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    In camparo Turner puts out over 2000 frames, and Ellspuke is near or above that as well.
    But both of those brands are mass produced frames. Sorry homers, but when you outsource ALL the construction of the frame it's no longer a boutique brand.
    It's just a boutique "Marketed" frame.

    -A
    I would hardly call 2000 frames, mass produced. What is your definition of "boutique"? Small numbers? Hand built? Made in the USA? Far too expensive? Is there an actual definition of 'boutique brand'.

    We all no DT puts alot of thought and pride into his frames, and he has an amazing (small) staff on hand. All bikes have great QC and hand inspected. There are not too many companies around that you can call and talk to "the man" himself for a good length of time. His customer service is second to none. He posts on this site all the time. He rides with the Homers (thats dedication, can you imagine hanging with that group for a long weekend?). He even posted a 'Happy Thanksgiving' post in the Turner Forum.

    Your remarks above just sound stupid and elitist; right on par with alot of the Homers. They are both great companies. I currently own a Turner and a Giant and love riding both of them. I would love to own a Ventana some day, and a Knolly, and more Turners. They are all money well spent, and you can't go wrong if you know what you want.

    Ride On.

    TG

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR
    Far too expensive? Is there an actual definition of 'boutique brand'.



    TG
    I don't believe anybody has ever come out and made a definitive one. So barring a definitive description or definition it becomes a matter of opinion. So...IMHO "Boutique Brands" should include only those companies where the owner actually builds the frames.
    Jeff Jone, Sycip, Curtlo, Willets etc. etc. they all go to work and SMELL the metal being welded, feel the heat of it, hear the metal being mitered etc. etc daily. They are actually involved in making the frames.

    No where did I say anything negative about Turner's bikes, his designs nor his CS, but none of those items nor any of the "merits" that you listed in your middle paragraph have ANYTHING to do with the actual production of the frames.
    Turner does not produce frames, he designs, then markets them. He is no different than say Niner Bikes, no different than even some of the "Big" companies. How, you ask? He designs the frames, and then negotiates his terms with an outside source for the construction of his frames.

    And the next time you attack some one personally, by saying they are elitist, you may want to check further, since in my stable I have Ventana's, Schwinn, KHS, Jamis, Raleigh and even a Specialized. Hardly a one brand elitist.

    At any rate, got out and enjoy your bike(s) that's the whole point of the sport anyway.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    No where did I say anything negative about Turner's bikes, his designs nor his CS, but none of those items nor any of the "merits" that you listed in your middle paragraph have ANYTHING to do with the actual production of the frames.
    I'd say that the designer has quite a lot to do with the production.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    I don't believe anybody has ever come out and made a definitive one. So barring a definitive description or definition it becomes a matter of opinion. So...IMHO "Boutique Brands" should include only those companies where the owner actually builds the frames.
    Jeff Jone, Sycip, Curtlo, Willets etc. etc. they all go to work and SMELL the metal being welded, feel the heat of it, hear the metal being mitered etc. etc daily. They are actually involved in making the frames.
    .
    Fair enough, sounds good!

    It was not a personal attack, sorry if I came across that way. I just said it "sounds" elitist, did not say you are an elitist.

    TG

  16. #16
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    Just to make things clear. I know nobody said it and I'm not pointing fingers. You will never hear a bad word about Dave Turner at Ventana. Dave is very respected and liked by the entire staff.

    Is there an actual definition of 'boutique brand'? I donno. Never really liked the word "boutique". Sounds to,...you know. I'd call Ventana a "custom frame maker".
    Old age and treachery will always win over youth and exuberance.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauliemon
    Is there an actual definition of 'boutique brand'? I donno. Never really liked the word "boutique". Sounds to,...you know. I'd call Ventana a "custom frame maker".
    Word up! Ventana is larger then life. I'm digging my El Ciclon.....it's the cat's meow.

  18. #18
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    I also was curious about how many frames ventana makes. The relatively few frames produced + the level of quality of each one coupled with the low-key personalized feel of each purchase defines the botique label in my eyes. I think its admirable the way ventana keeps it real, when in all actuality they could easily sell out and seemingy make more frames/money. Sometimes I wonder why they dont.

    TP

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauliemon
    Just to make things clear. I know nobody said it and I'm not pointing fingers. You will never hear a bad word about Dave Turner at Ventana. Dave is very respected and liked by the entire staff.

    Is there an actual definition of 'boutique brand'? I donno. Never really liked the word "boutique". Sounds to,...you know. I'd call Ventana a "custom frame maker".

    No doubt.........boutique does sound rather well you know ! No other FS frames I've owned have felt as solid under my 230 lb geared up weight as the Ventanas and that's the main reason I like them and sold all my lame wimpy previous junk ! The fact that Sherwood is personally involved with the actual fabrication process is very commendable ! TIG.
    Last edited by TIGMAN; 11-26-2007 at 06:50 AM.

  20. #20
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    boutique sounds very ghey so yeah, turners might be boutique.

    and who gives a flying "F" how many are made. My only request is that when my next Ventana is made that Sherwood keep Pauliemon whey the hell away from it since a dry hump is not what I consider semi-custom.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    boutique sounds very ghey so yeah, turners might be boutique.

    and who gives a flying "F" how many are made. My only request is that when my next Ventana is made that Sherwood keep Pauliemon whey the hell away from it since a dry hump is not what I consider semi-custom.
    That's right sweetheart, dry hump is full custom. Your next bike we're farming out to Motiv.
    Old age and treachery will always win over youth and exuberance.

  22. #22
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    You are correct Sherwood made the first of the tuner burner typess and word is he might do more turners in the future FWIW. But then again how much can one person weld in a day and keep it up to standards...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown_Teeth
    You are correct Sherwood made the first of the tuner burner typess and word is he might do more turners in the future FWIW. But then again how much can one person weld in a day and keep it up to standards...
    What are you saying here?
    Former Homer...Ventana convert: extreme poseur!

  24. #24
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    Yo F'izzle, what ever happened to that Ventana you had lined up to buy, you know the one with big kids wheels, FS? Are you gona finally join us up on the big kids table ? Oh and yeah, damn you can tell your wife returned from her "beauty spa" vacation - poor you Just divorce her, let her keep everything but the bikes and you'll be much happier

    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    boutique sounds very ghey so yeah, turners might be boutique.

    and who gives a flying "F" how many are made. My only request is that when my next Ventana is made that Sherwood keep Pauliemon whey the hell away from it since a dry hump is not what I consider semi-custom.
    Last edited by LyNx; 11-28-2007 at 04:38 AM.
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  25. #25
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Yo F'izzle, what ever happened to that Ventana you had lined up to buy, you know the one with big kids wheels, FS? Are you gona finally join us up on the big kids table ? Oh and yeah, damn you can tell your wife returned from her "beauty spa" vacation - poor you Just divorce her, let her keep everything but the bikes and you'll be much happier

    It's almost there according to my last chat with "The Fo"
    however he already has a "big wheeled" Fomandante..

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Jeff Jone, Sycip, Curtlo, Willets etc. etc. they all go to work and SMELL the metal being welded, feel the heat of it, hear the metal being mitered etc. etc daily.
    Oohhhhhhhhhhhhhh............

    I love when you talk sexy

    I need to go take a cold shower.

  27. #27
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    They are buddies and have recently talked about some co-production to keep quality up. Nothing definative yet.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown_Teeth
    They are buddies and have recently talked about some co-production to keep quality up. Nothing definative yet.
    Mmmmmm..... Custom or semi-custom Turners welded by Sherwood (or one of his minions). Be still my beating heart.

    Oh well. Though you sound informed about this, and I'd love to see it, I'm still reading about it on the Internets. I'll have to take the "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude on this one.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    however he [Fo] already has a "big wheeled" Fomandante..
    ...and rides it like a man.
    .
    "...when your ride is nearly over, it seems to have lasted but an instant..."


    Stuff

  30. #30
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    Sherwood has "minions"? Jeez...how big do ya hafta be to have minions? I mean, is he a made man? Can he have you whack'd? Whadabowd the gobbagoo, any good?

    Seriously, someone supposedly "in-the-know" is trying to get me to believe that Sherwood has a brother named "forrest" who works at Turner. I'm guillible enough to post that on MTBR for laughs but really...Sherwood and Forrest??? Is this the real reason those UK riders love Ventana?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr
    Sherwood has "minions"? Jeez...how big do ya hafta be to have minions? I mean, is he a made man? Can he have you whack'd? Whadabowd the gobbagoo, any good?
    From the Oxford American Dictionary Widget on my Mac:
    "minion" - A follower or underling of a powerful person, esp. a servile or unimportant one.

    Yep. I think the term fits.

  32. #32
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    Ventana Feature Story

    Mystery Solved: "Ventana is now nearing production of 1000 frames a year -- not bad at all for a five-person operation." Quote from Competitive Cyclist story on Ventana (quite interesting with good pictures of the inside scene) located here http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...ll+Access+Tour

  33. #33
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    very cool writeup from Competitive Cyclist. I have been around a shop environment several times and own my own shop where we build custom vehicles as a hobby but just barely teetering the brink of professional quality. All of the little details in that article are absolutely critical and very cool stuff. At the end of the day, with about 230 real work days a year, minus however many they are away for Sea Otter, Interbike, etc, they have to be producing at least 5 frames a day. Which is simply unreal... The article only makes me that much more happy. A long time ago when I realized how sort of cheesy it was to put a company sticker on your car or something like that, as if you identified yourself with that "brand" I decided stickers of places and other relevant causes only. For example I ski Rossi skis nearly exclusively (they rule), and have been for probably 10+ years. But no way in hell I would put a Rossi sticker on my car. Only confirmed a few more times now that their headquarters have been in two towns I've lived in (by accident). But damn straight I would put a Ventana sticker on my car... In a heartbeat...
    Last edited by dieselcruiserhead; 07-03-2008 at 04:32 AM.

  34. #34
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    This surprises me, the numbers produced I mean, but for the perception of the number of models in the Ventana range I would have thought more numbers would have been produced a year, how does Sherwood survive the man is a magican, and good on him and long live Ventana's!

    Im a Turner man [proud Homer] but Ive always respected and liked the Ventana way, the quality, welds and paint, but yo dudes are safe I'm also loyal me stick with DT hes been good to me, and his bikes rock for me enough said though if Ventana did a steel HT SS 29er it would be on m list since Turner are FS only!

    I don't know what defines, custom or boutique anymore Im not sure it matters as long as its about the quality of the relationship with the brand and the people behind it, thats why I'l never ride no Speccy or Trek yoodles so whos elitist ?
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  35. #35
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    And the answer is....

    Hey,
    Of course the respectable Mr. Gibson has better things to do than sit and read internet forums about bicycles, however the question of how many frames are made remains unanswered. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person in Australia to have even heard of Ventana, let alone be so fortunate as to to own one. At such times I get lonely and sad. Then I cry real tears of real pain and call in anger to my God, who replies "I don't know how many Ventanas are made annually, Sherwood won't tell me either."

    Won't you tell us, Mr. Gibson? Pleeeeeaaaase?

    p.s. I promise not to write any more kiss-ass emails telling you how much your bikes rip if you do this one little favour...
    Quote Originally Posted by dowst
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  36. #36
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfatadder
    Hey,
    Of course the respectable Mr. Gibson has better things to do than sit and read internet forums about bicycles, however the question of how many frames are made remains unanswered.
    chexem posted it above:
    "Ventana is now nearing production of 1000 frames a year"

  37. #37
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    Thanks Crisillo

    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    chexem posted it above:
    "Ventana is now nearing production of 1000 frames a year"
    Thanks! Strangley the post by chexem didn't come up.... but now it has, below yours! That Competitive Cyclist review is fantastic, answered all my questions. Great stuff! Sherwood should charge more for his work
    Quote Originally Posted by dowst
    Next time you want to post worthless, stupid sh*t like this, go here:

    www.pinkbike.com

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfatadder
    Thanks! Strangley the post by chexem didn't come up.... but now it has, below yours! That Competitive Cyclist review is fantastic, answered all my questions. Great stuff! Sherwood should charge more for his work
    no prob!

    ah.. probably the way you have the thread displayed (I use linear mode), you can choose it on the top right....

  39. #39
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    Wow, Crisillo the miracle worker.

    Bingo! My threads are working properly! I struggle being computer (and bike) illiterate, amongst other things.
    Quote Originally Posted by dowst
    Next time you want to post worthless, stupid sh*t like this, go here:

    www.pinkbike.com

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfatadder
    Bingo! My threads are working properly! I struggle being computer (and bike) illiterate, amongst other things.
    we all learn a bit at a time... No worries...glad I could help out ..

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