Enduro needle bearings and my Ciclon
I recently bought some endro needle bearings for my carbon nomad and new ciclon after reading on the santa cruz forum about how much they improved the small bump compliance with the air shocks on the nomads. Well after several test rides on both bikes, I would say that the needle bearing on the nomad hardly made a diffrence. The ciclon however was more plush than before. I actually had to add some air to firm up the shock and add 1 click more rebound after I installed the needle bearing on it. Small bump was great before, but now feels just that much better. I only installed a needle bearing on the upper link/shock for the ciclon as recommended by Real world cycles. They said it was not needed on the lower mount since it hardly rotates at all. The stock du bushing and adapters had alot of drag, I needed a tool to even get it to rotate. The needle bearing spins like butter. Pretty cheap upgrade so i gave it a shot and I'm happy with the results. You'll need a bushing remover/needle bearing installer along with a vise to get the job done. I only spent 30 minutes to do 2 bikes, it's a simple job.
Last edited by fuenstock; 11-10-2011 at 07:56 PM.
Good to hear. I'd been meaning to buy one of these for my Ciclon, and this pretty much cinches it.
Yes, this is on my 2012 ciclon. I bought the shock needle bearing from RWC, heres a link
Originally Posted by Stripes
RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS
It's the same kit you would use for the santa cruz nomad version2 and newer that fits the ciclon. It was the 2185 needle bearing kit, no shims needed. You only need one needle bearing for the upper shock to link. I also bought the tool to remove the shock du bushing and press in the needle bearing from a member here who sells them on ebay. I think his name here is Mountainbiker4life. You'll need that tool and a vise, or just have your shop do it for you. the tool alone cost a little over $40.
Im running a fox rp23 shock. Im petty sure your monarch would take the same size needle bearing, but you might want to talk to RWC just to make sure.
Originally Posted by Stripes
The one's you want for Ventana is the 2220. Better to be a hair oversized than a hair undersized.
Although I don't think this would have added to your issues.
Did you do top and bottom?
I'm assuming you used the same bolt correct? I haven't heard anyone complain of lateral flex while using this set up in the past. Maybe it was just more active than what you're used to? Maybe that made the bike feel like it was 'flexing' because it was gliding though the travel with much more ease?
Dunno. I'm curious.
I've used them in the past, although not on the new gen. 2 Chucho yet. I just got burnt because of the higher maintenance required and fast they 'pitted' out.
I've been curious to try them out on the new bike because I'm also running the Monarch and feel that it's small bump climate is not on par with Fox and was wondering if the difference of the needle bearings might be enough to take that edge off a bit.
www.velocitybicycles.comWhere customers become friends, not simply a dollar sign.
I put one on my Ciclon last week, and definitely didn't feel any extra flex. What I did feel is a dramatic loss of friction, which allows the shock to run much more freely into its travel. I had to add quite a bit of air, however, to make up for the reduced friction "damping."
Whether or not that's a good thing might depend on whether you like your compression damping as it is, or whether your shock has real compression adjustments to compensate. For me, so far kind of a mixed bag overall with the rp23, but I'm still figuring out whether or not to just leave the propedal on 1 full time.
Last edited by albeant; 11-27-2011 at 08:31 AM.
I installed the same 2185 kit on my Ciiclon and have zero flex or any type of play. Do you know if your lbs installed it with the + or - tollerance sleeve? Maybe they used a sleeve with to much play. I don't fell any flex in the rear, it feels just as stiff as the stock shock spacers did.
I will agree with you that it may not be for every one. My first ride with the enduro bearings, it just felt like it was bobbing like crazy. It toke some time to get it to feel right. I had to add air and mess with rebound, but it feels much better now than my first ride on the needle bearings. Small bump is def better than stock, but it also bobs more so it's a trade off. If your more xc, long rides with long hills you might want to keep the stock setup. More all mountain type riders might prefer the added plushness of the needle bearing.
Sounds fishy to me. The amount of lateral load carried across the shock is secondary to that across the down tube and the seat-stay yoke. Sure your shop didn't just leave something loose?
Since when did Need have anything to do with this?
Just for general info, I used the 2185 kit with the "+" tolerance sleeve. Fit is perfect, with no discernable play.
I'd also be surprised that some bushing play could cause significant frame flex...
Stripes, your description of the rear end having a mind of its own is familair to me - it sounds like you needed more rebound damping, not less (now that the stock bushes arent adding their own 'rebound damping' and you added air to the shock which on its own would warrant more damping).
older El Ciclons
This thread got me interested in trying out the needle bearing kit, so I contacted Chris at RWC, since I have a 2009 EC and there was not any information on which to use. I assumed all the posts above were in reference to the 2012s.
Here is the meat and potatoes of his reply:
"The very latest Ventana frames have rocker arms that curve in toward the shock
and use our NBKRWC2220 kit. However, the 2009 models have a very wide span
(54.2mm). Our longest kit is 43.74mm, which would require 5mm of shims on
each side. That's a bit excessive. Knowing that there are a lot of Ventana
owners out there that would benefit from a kit specific to this upper rocker
mount, part number NBKRWC5420 is next in line for production. That means we
should have one in about 2 months. Sorry we don't have one already..."
I hope this helps.
I've got some more time now on my needle bearings on the 2012 ciclon and i'm still liking the performance. I was unsure about them at first and had to completely reset my suspension. For me it almost felt like the needle bearings added more travel to the suspension. The 150mm setting almost felt to active for me and to close the my nomads suspension feel. The needle bearings made the ciclon bob more than I liked at 150mm unless I ran high air pressure. I moved the ciclon to the 140mm setting to add some more seperation between my nomad and ciclon. So for me the sweet spot has been the 140mm setting in the rear with propedal on firmest setting and 150mm upfront. This lets me stand and mash the pedals like a hard tail and still feel supple when needed. The biggest improvement for me with the needle bearings is that anoying trail chatter when at full speed. The needle bearings do make it eaiser to bottom out the suspension. Im running about 15% sag at 140mm which gives me a very good pedal platform, but because of the needle bearings it doesn't feel harsh at all. I would explain it as having the stiff pedaling of the 140mm setting while at the same time feeling the plushness of the 150mm setting. The biggest problem for me is probably that at 140mm travel with 15% sag I have bottomed out the shock hard a couple times. If I run any more than 15% sag the suspension gets to harsh for my liking. Overall Im happy with them, but I would agree that some might not like them. I think the suspension was also harder to get to feel right with the needle bearing than it was with the stock du bushing.
Last edited by fuenstock; 01-01-2012 at 01:06 PM.
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