El Rey ?
I have read so much about the El Rey needing a laid back post to get the right feel. Explain this to me as I put one on my El Rey and was 1.5 inches behind the pedal when doing a plumb bob test. I'm even thinking this was what caused my recent knee issue. I had two easy rides with the laid back post before the knee acted up. Many ride before on the El Rey and no knee issue. I put a straight post back on and plumb bob says I'm much closer to where I should be. Not saying this caused thew knee issue but it makes you wonder a little. I'm just curious if the laid back deal is something started on the Internet because one liked it or if it really improves the El Rey rider position.
That really is completely individual. The "plumb bob test" is nothing more than a guideline either, at best.
I tried it both ways and prefer sit on top.
It is personal preference.
Originally Posted by buddhak
Agreed with out a custom fit bike you are just going to get close vs dead nuts on.
Also what is the correct geometry for a 29er supposed to be? I think that the 26" wheels have a bit more mtb history behind them for one to build around. Think that the 29ers are still experimental in a way. That being said I have 2.
saddle seatback is independant of wheel size.
If you know what your saddle nose to BB setback measurement is(what has been efficient for you in the past) then you should put the saddle in the position that makes that measurement happen, regardless if it's a layback, or straight post.
First thing I set on a bike I'm test riding/borrowing/new ride to me, is the Saddle height, then the saddle setback. Then you worry about reach and drop. But you first have to get your but planted in your sweet spot first.
www.velocitybicycles.comWhere customers become friends, not simply a dollar sign.
its a stupid test....as are most generalizations (other than all Homers are aholes). i use a setback cuz i dont want an XL frame but the (stock) L frame is a tad shorter than a i like in terms of toptube....thats it. I tried it, like it enough and heck, may have liked a straight post as much or perhaps even more....but the setback works so it stays.
You really don't want you knee behind the center of the pad of your foot by over an inch, correct?
Well,,, it really depends on your personal biomechanics really.
I used to do the KOPS method and I find that being about 3/4" behind is better for me on both the Roadie and the MTB. I produce a smoother spin and WAY more power, but that's just me. So I say use it as a guide not law.
"Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."
i have NO clue....everybody is different so generalizations can do harm. I have had major reconstructive foot surgery, so dont care about ghey roadie rules, dont check sag just go by what feels good in suspension when on the trail, and put the saddle where it feels right regardless of what bend in my knees is per yet another ghey roadie-inspired rule.
I'm just trying to prevent the knee issue from coming back. I feel like I need too be between a laid back and straight. I used Thompson's so might look at a different brand with a shorter off set.
people with long femur might still be KOPS with a setback post...and also a matter of taste..i also like my knee to be a little bit "behind KOPS"
Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
Why worry about the seat setback........just take the seat off and ride....post holin' boyz
But seriously I had the same fit issue when I got my Padrino and El Ciclon.....fitted them with setback posts.....then started to get the same knee issue. Then I went with a straight post and focused on what Myke stated.....correct saddle height then for/aft position of the saddle.....then drop. I'm styling now. The only things that are different from my past bikes is seat angle and top tube length. I was sold on the GF Gensis geometry.....for no other reason than the bike fit. Being 6'3" I'm outside the bell curve.
Here is an interesting article/rant from Keith Bontrager regarding KOPS
I miss the days when Keith Bontrager would make the rounds at bay area bike shops for his evening rants about the industry.
My theory on it is to address some of the top tube length issues of different 29ers. The Sultan for example has about 3/4" more top tube, this is trimmed out with the steeper seat tube angle of the El Rey. So a swept back seat post would increase this and allow you to run a shorter stem and generally ride the bike farther back. The Sultan supposedly "climbs better" by a hair according to posts here by Homers and the swept back post could compensate for some of that by putting the weight over those long-ass rear chain stays... It was my plan to most likely run a swept back post and a ~90mm stem if I ended up with an El Rey.
I removed one medium spacer under the stem. I happened to call Eric at White Brothers as the break oil (20 hours) needs replacing. I wanted to know which brand of oil they use, Torco Grade 7. While I had him on the phone I asked a couple questions about the Fluid 110. Remember I'm a fat dude and was running 100 psi on the air leg and 50 psi in the compression leg. He suggested I remove all the air in the compression side and add half my weight in psi to the air spring. I liked the fork before and now I like it even more. He stated you can go as high as 275psi in the air spring. If I remember the manual does not suggest this high of a psi. So if anyone needs it that high I would double check thatI heard Eric correctly.
So lower stem and different fork setting and the bike rocked! No need to mess with the seat post straight worked fine.
Last edited by Cycle64; 02-14-2008 at 07:51 PM.
For me the plumb bob test had me waaaaaay to far forward. The only reason I did the plumb bob test in the first place was because the fit just didn't seem right (to me). In addition, I was running a longer stem than I wanted and had the seat back on the rails to get the reach I was accustomed to. I have a custom Curtlo that is dead nuts as far as fit goes. Putting on the setback made the Ventana fit more like my Curtlo which is what I was looking for.
Anyway, the setback post put me in the "text book" correct position as far as measuring with a plumb bob goes (not that I really give sh!t about the plumb bob), but what I cared about most is that the post and the shorter stem made the Ventana fit me like a glove while at the same time gave the bike a major boost in the handling department.
a low saddle can aggrivate the knee as well.....
Grand claims demand grand proof.
...another thought...the plum bob test is a good rule of thumb for bio mechanics [asuming you are getting proper extension as well]. Your set up should be based on BB/pedal location first - if you are "too far forward" after you fit yourself to the BB/pedal - I'd say your TT/stem is/are too short.....but alas - most production frames "tend" to be built this way....the basis for this fit philosophy is for generating max power.
Grand claims demand grand proof.
On a road bike, when you are hammering on the flats, in the saddle. Think Criterium.
Originally Posted by HardTail29er
Less important on a mountain bike, though the principle obviously applies.
mtnbiker4life beat me to the KB reference. KOPS became gospel back in the day when the FitKit was the hot tool du jour. We used it at Orinda Spoke and Pedal quite a bit. it worked, sorta mostly, but there were always a few riders that KOPS did not work for.
The cleat aligning tool was fun though.
Last edited by Random Drivel; 02-16-2008 at 05:11 AM.
How to fit on a road bike
1. 1" at least between crotch and top tube
2. view of front hub must be hidden by handle bar when sitting on bike
3. short torso?, just use a shorter stem!
Past comments about my mountain bike setup
1. that's weird, why do you run so much post?
2. riser bars? what are you, a wannabe downhiller?
3. why do you slide your seat back so much?
Rides on my expensive Madone were becoming painful. My time is precious and my age increasing. No time or desire for chronic injuries. I see people every day who are limited by chronic pain. My cousin suggested a Serotta and while window shopping I stumbled upon their forum.
Uh...everything I knew about bike fit was wrong. And....I know very little about bike fit. My ignorance was not damaging in the past because of youth and mountain biking not requiring a static position. I learned the local l(bs) obviously knew nothing about proper fit
So off I went to a Serotta fit tech and $250 later I was almost in heaven. I am now with my custom Lynskey.
Now one of the shop owners who laughed at me when I told him about being fitted has a professional fitter come in to his shop periodically.
Do you need a professional fit for mountain biking? I doubt it, unless you're a hardcore racer or have persistent pain and/or have had significant lower extremity trauma.
Going back to the straight post made things much better. Well until I decided I wanted to learn how to fly the other night. Hopefully this will be a short healing adventure.
Little information I have come across. While my angle of attack may have been most of the reason for my crash. I did end up burping the Rampage mounted on a Flow. Since this was only the 4th ride (Flow/Rampage) I was a little concerned. After talking with the people at Stan's about this. They suggested running the Flow rim strip with the yellow tape for aggressive and/or heavy riders. They said the Rampage was a fine tire to run tubeless. So I have ordered the strips and a new set of Rampages. If it happens again I'll reconsider running tubeless or run a tubeless ready tire. To old to crash because of a component issue.