Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,085

    El Rey/29er -- 4" versus 5" (again)

    I have read up on the 4" versus 5" 29er threads I can find.. I am 230lbs (6'5) and live in Utah. So all sorts of terrain... Also trying to make the big switch to exclusively 29ers...

    Locally there is tons of fairly mellow single track. This is what I ride 2-3 times a week in the season but not where it's "at" for me... I mostly rode my hardtail 26er all year last year on this stuff and had a blast and did fine. I don't mind keeping it real with a hardtail on this. I have a new 29er hard tail single speed that I'm building super light that I figure should be fun for this stuff... But I will still probably drag out the full suspension here and there... I ride mostly hard XC...

    But I will be taking a couple trips to Southern Utah and ride out in the Uintas (local mountain range about 45 minutes from Salt Lake City) where there are gnarly trails and rocks and good technical terrain that full suspension goes a long way. In the past I've usually borrowed or rented a 5" 26er bike for this and loved it...

    It is tough because I'm making the switch from a hardtail exclusively, finally. I rode a 26er SC Blur LT 5.5" travel when I was in Moab and it was awesome. Heavy as hell but didn't feel too bad at all in my opinion and I liked it a lot on some of the harder trails. I liked the deepness of the 5" suspension.

    What I am trying to figure out now is whether I should do 4" or 5" with a the new 29er mostly because of my size/weight. I don't do or plan to do big drops or anything. But was having a blast on some of the more technical trails with 1.5 and even 2' drops.

    I keep reading "4 inch 29er is like 5" 26 inch" and trying to get to the bottom of this. The problem is also the lack of 5" available bikes. There is the funky Turner conversion or the Ventana option or Lenz. Not interested in the Intense right now mostly because they F'd up the angles with the 5.5 model (at least for someone my height). The 4" is perfect for me, but in 5" travel I'd probably take a Ventana or Turner first. Right now I get deals on Ventana and Turner that would also make me lean that way. I like the idea of the Ventana and being able to switch. 4" would probably also be fine though most of the time. But it seems like some people don't like the handling/bob of the 5"? Is it that big a deal - sounds like it?

    El Rey back in 4 inch mode.
    Ventana El Rey 4" vs. 5"

    ________________________________________________


    Also, trying to figure out the fork situation. Would prefer to do it once and do it right. I was talking with White Brothers and they say "with your weight, the 5" will be awesome" and what they recommended. I don't think there is anything wrong or I'll mind say a 5" front with a 4" back? Or is 4" front/balanced definitely a better setup? Pretty sure I'll end up with the White Brothers for this bike. I think I might try the new Fox on the Gary Fisher single speed for town but like the robustness and size/girth of White Brothers for this...


    Any thoughts appreciated!
    Last edited by dieselcruiserhead; 02-05-2008 at 10:39 PM.

  2. #2
    Captain Underpants
    Reputation: Random Drivel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,300
    I ran the WB 135 on a Sultan (4" back) and it worked just fine. Nice fork with super small bump compliance. I'm sure it would be fine on a 4" El Rey. A one inch difference is not a big deal--most hardtails have a 3" difference with no issues. However, the deal breaker would be how the bike would handle with the HTA running effectively 1 degree slacker.

    If it were me, I'd do the El Rey with a 100mm Fox or the Lenz Lunchbox with the WB 135.

    Good luck with whatever you decide!

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,085
    Both the Turner and the El Rey have pretty steep HT angles, 71 degrees for the Turner, 71.5 for the El Rey, which in 26" world is super cross country. The El Rey has a lightly steeper seat angle at 74 degrees versus 73 and the head tube is 71.5 versus 71. I think the 5" front would balance out really well especially on the El Rey. On the Turner it would drop the seat angle a little more. This might be a good thing with the long-ass chainstays of these bikes. I don't mind a slack steering angle at all, in fact I prefer it.

    Between the two bikes it comes to this: I like the color and price of the Turner more. It is slightly cheaper because of the quad bearing, shock upgrade, and color change I'll have to do with the Ventana. I like the uniqueness of Ventana a little more (except all my friends ride them) and I like the beefyness and steeper seat angle specifically slightly more. But I'd probably also pay the extra $150 to get it in a similar color to the candy blue Turner I dislike the odd shock size of the Turner but don't care too much about it as long as it works and will be functional and beefy in 4" mode. I have seen some crazy pics of guys doing big drops with their Turners. But I doubt they are as big/weigh as much...

    So this thread (4" versus 5") is sort of like the definitive answer for me. 4" with the Turner is a PITA and requires a weird shock unless I go almost 4.5" with the Push rockers. With the Ventana it is fairly easy and a no brainer. But I am looking at quite a bit more...

    Or I can scrap them both and go Lenz. I would be down with this but currently do not have much set up with them and am interested in resale value possibly in the future a couple years down. So this might sway me towards a Ventana or Turner as well....

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    69
    Just a FYI the El Rey comes standard with the quad bearing spec. Probably doesn't help you out but figure I'd put it out there. I have an El Rey being built by Larry right now, it will be using the Fox F29 fork and a RP-23 shock.

  5. #5
    Neg reppers r my biatches
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinfan
    Just a FYI the El Rey comes standard with the quad bearing spec. Probably doesn't help you out but figure I'd put it out there. I have an El Rey being built by Larry right now, it will be using the Fox F29 fork and a RP-23 shock.
    nice.....ask larry about his thought on getting a large canister sleeve for the RP23. I would....

  6. #6
    Captain Underpants
    Reputation: Random Drivel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,300
    The other thing to consider: both the El Rey and Lunchbox/Behemoth have similar length top tubes for a given frame size. The Sultan runs a bit longer-somewhere between 1/2 to 1" (going from memory). It may not seem like much, but it was a deal breaker for me (even with a shortie stem). Of course, it may not be an issue for you.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,085
    Thanks guys and sorry I double posted to get a couple more opinions over the 29er section...
    4" versus 5" 29er full suspension

    I like the short stem idea - doesn't bother me too much. I think I'd maybe prefer the slacker head angles of the Lenz bikes though, I dunno... Good to know the El Rey is stock quad bearing...

  8. #8
    Powered by ice cream.
    Reputation: Enel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,251
    Quote Originally Posted by Random Drivel
    If it were me, I'd do the El Rey with a 100mm Fox or the Lenz Lunchbox with the WB 135.
    I agree. I have an El Cappy with WB 100mm fork (with through axle ). It rides better in the 4" travel rear setting.

    I also have a Lenz Lunchbox with WB 135 that I prefer in any situation more technical than point and shoot XC riding. For flying along singletrack at max HR, it is not the bike. For cruising technical terrain, it is a smile inducer.

    The difference in travel in only an inch, and not that significant, but the ride is entirely different. One bike wants to hit every little bump/jump on the trail (Lenz), and one just wants to smoothly shred through corners (Ventana)

    4" or 5" of travel on 29" wheels feels the same as on 26" wheels for the most part. I have not found any magic there.

    For your purposes, considering your resale desirability, and bro deals, you should probably (I hate to say this here) get the Sultan. It is cheaper, probably rides similar to the Ventana, and the resale market would be hotter for you since many people will blindly buy anything Turner produces . Many folks have used it with a longer fork happily. Don't worry about the travel thing until you have tried it. I doubt it will be an issue. There is nothing you can do on a 5" bike you can't do on a 4" bike. The feel is just different.

    If you want the funnest bike IMO, get the Lenz Behemoth or Lunchbox.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,085
    LOL on the Turner comment That said I think I'm leaning that direction too.. Nice to hear from someone who has both

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: wilks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,353
    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    nice.....ask larry about his thought on getting a large canister sleeve for the RP23. I would....
    I think all 08 RP23's come with HV sleeves now - mine did at least and i didn't ask for one when I ordered it. To the OP I just got a 4" El Capitan and I have a 5.5 Turner 26er - The Turner feels slightly deeper / plusher but I need to fiddle with set up more. I think you should look into how BB height and head tube angles are affected when changing rockers on Sultans and El Reys too. Ultimately though I bet both bikes would serve you very well in 4 or 5" mode - so get what fits best - top tube, standover etc. etc.....

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •