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  1. #51
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    I have a CCDB coil. I can dial out any bob, but with just a touch of inch worming on hardpack its perfect for all around trail riding, super d and enduro racing.

    I can't notice any difference in the brake jack dept. And that's from riding and racing six inch frames for 15 years. First was a single pivot / linkage 1998 Rocky Mountain DH TO. Then three FSR Titus Quasi Motos and two Ciclons.

    The only major breakthrough has been in shock technology. Ill never forget when I got my Vanilla RC back from push in '05 or maybe it was 04.

    I've never really rode a DW bike outside a parking lot. The sensation was that of riding on the bike, not in the bike.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I've never really rode a DW bike outside a parking lot. The sensation was that of riding on the bike, not in the bike.
    Definitely in it - maybe it's my setup giving that feeling though. Low stack up front, 33% sag, Fox 36@160. Climbs like a scalded goat on crack and rails the DH with telepathic precision

    DW link comparison?-lance-ant-killer-web.jpg

    DW link comparison?-lance-waterfall.jpg

    DW link comparison?-secret-roll.jpg

    DW link comparison?-wall-ride.jpg

    DW link comparison?-hahn.jpg

    Need to qualify my e-riding commentary with something.

  3. #53
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    Looking at those pics, I was thinking you are near me (well not right now, I'm in Iceland) I thought Hurkey? Art Smith? And then I saw the last pic. The DW I rode was a Ibis HD i tried in the parking lot at Ashland while waiting for start timesd It accelerated like a mother but if it were mine I'd need a lot more sag. Also, I can't be the only one who has jumped on someone's bike, even another Ciclon and wondered "Wtf?? How can he ride with this set up." Not that I know anything. Lol.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Looking at those pics, I was thinking you are near me (well not right now, I'm in Iceland) I thought Hurkey? Art Smith? And then I saw the last pic. The DW I rode was a Ibis HD and it accelerated like a mother but if it were mine I'd need a lot more sag. Also, I can't be the only one who has jumped on someone's bike, even another Ciclon and wondered "Wtf?? How can he ride with this set up." Not that I know anything. Lol.
    I'm the Palm Springs desert area and those are my local trails (hurkey, art, hahn, goats, etc). The overhead shot is the waterfall on National trail at south mountain. Aren't you near big bear or somewhere over that way?

    DW does need to be setup right to feel best and it takes some rides to get used to the feel of it on the most techy climbs. I've always enjoyed a little more sag, a low compression tune with medium rebound. Yep, I get where you're coming from - lots of imagination is needed when trying someone else bike out.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue View Post
    Chuck, pedal kickback or feedback is when you're pedaling over an obstacle or feature and the rear wheel wants to stop or reverse the pedals. It's usually due to chain growth when the suspension compresses. The older VPP designs suffered pretty badly from this. The DW Link on my Spot has minimal to no pedal kickback or feedback. To ever feel it you would need to be in the granny ring and very deep in the travel while hitting an object just the right way.
    Maybe consider 3 other bikes along with that Anthem: new Turner Flux, Santa Cruz Solo and Ventana Alpino. All are 650b.
    Thanks loads for the description of pedal feedback. This has happened to me a few times when test riding and it makes going up some technical climbs very challenging. I just never knew what was happening or what it was called. As far as checking out the Flux, Solo and Alpino I would only replace the Bastardo with a carbon frame bike. So that excludes the Alpino and Flux and I don't personally care for Santa Cruz. I just feel Santa Cruz charge way to much for their products. What I really want is Yeti to come out with a 4" travel 27.5' FS travel bike but I think I will be waiting a long time for that bike to come out. Thanks again.

  6. #56
    El CicloPath!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    The Ibis and the Pivot accelerate very quickly because the DW link stiffens up in the top of the stroke, which is what makes it accelerate nicely. The Pivots stiffen up even more than the Ibis, which gives them a really harsh feeling.

    The acceleration the first thing I noticed about it, and I absolutely love the fact it takes no time to get it up to speed. The Ventanas did not accelerate well, no matter which version. I was constantly changing out tires to try to fix that, and it didn't matter: the bike did not accelerate. The Ventanas were great at speed, but for slow speed or coming out of a stop, they didn't perform the way I wanted.



    This. You really have to spend a few rides tinkering with the Ibis to get it to feel right. Mine feels somewhat right with 30% sag and a large volume reducer on the CTD. I'm sure it'll feel much better once I get a Monarch Plus in it though.
    I agree. My DW fluxes accelerated great. But overall, i still like the ride of the Ciclon better.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fachiro1 View Post
    I agree. My DW fluxes accelerated great. But overall, i still like the ride of the Ciclon better.
    Can't really compare a 100m travel Flux to an El Ciclon. Different animals.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post

    But around a parking lot, the DW link doesn't really feel like anything. It doesn't justify the experience because it's not as active as the single pivot.
    That's exactly what I felt about my Flux. Though it was shorter in travel, it had a very solid feeling on the flats and riding fireroads. Though it didnt feel as plush as the Ciclon when it got rocky, it did pedal like a champ.

    With the Ciclon, all I have to do is look down at the rockers and they'll be moving with jst about every pedal stroke. But I never felt like it's bobbng like a pogo stick. I just did a 2000 foot fire road climb with a few rocky sections, and I spent soe time looking at the rockers/shock, suspension. I try to do most of my climbing when I can in the middle ring, which is a 32. My largest cog is a 34. This fireroad has an average grade af 15% with a max of about 35%, so I try to do most of the climbing with the 32/34, but when I get tired out, I will go to the granny, which is a 22. What I observed was that in the 32/34 or 22/34, with a semi smooth natural cadence, I was getting very little bob. It woyld move over the rocks and dips, but one the flat or hardpack areas, it didn't bob as I imagined it would. Now, if I deliberately bounce up and down, then , yeah, it would pogo a bit.

    Downhill, it just soaks up just about everything, including a few 2-3 foot drops and a few jumps. I'm sorry but at my age and weight, I won't attempt anything that would potentially hospitalize me! The rear always feels solid.

    What I really find impressive is the LACK of noise when riding. Both up and down, the suspension is quiest and the shadow der. also works as designed.

  9. #59
    El CicloPath!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue View Post
    Can't really compare a 100m travel Flux to an El Ciclon. Different animals.

    Sure we can, I own/owned both so I can compare the suspension designs. We are comparing suspension designs.

  10. #60
    El CicloPath!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    Of course it's not going to feel plush like your Ciclon! You're talking 100mm travel vs 140/150mm, like LncNuvue said. I would agree with him that you're not making an fair comparison.



    You're also riding the Path edition right? That's really different geo than standard Ventana geos. One of the things I really did not like about the 2nd gen Ciclon was the slacker seat tube angle--it put my legs at a weird angle, and I just could not get comfortable on that bike, no matter how much I tried. Slacking out the head angle didn't help, because it was the seat tube angle and long reach (even despite it's being shortened 10mm for me), it was still too much forward lean for me.

    But if you have the Path edition, it has a lot more slack head angle and more steeper seat tube angle, and that allows you to get over the front end better on climbs.

    If you did most of your climbs in a gear lower than 30T, I'm sure you'd feel very differently. The best gearing for the Ventana for me was the 30T single ring and the 11-36 cassette (I would have preferred more gears in the back at the time, but I wasn't going to invest in XX1 or a general lee cassette mod).



    The Ventanas ALWAYS felt great downhill. Never an issue with how they eat up bumps. The X-5 felt better to me than the 2nd gen Ciclon on the DH. It was just solid and could plow easily. It was corners were the X-5 didn't shine as well as the 2nd gen Ciclon for me. The Ibis has no problems eating up the same bumps as the Ventanas though, but it just takes longer to get the rear dialed in.

    I hear you on taking unnecessary risks, but if you're afraid of getting hospitalized, don't mountain bike. Even the easiest ride could put you in the hospital. Just a fact of riding.

    Both my Ventana and Mojo HD are quiet when riding. Never an issue with either bike.

    LOL Anne!! I've been there! I think I'm a lot old than you younguns....two dislocated shoulders, a few concusions and a fractured humerus......those late 90's were crazy for me! I rode a Foes Slammer at the time and just let it fly!

    The Path Ciclon geo really is neat. It does climb well. The only limiting factor for me is that I had to go with a heavier wheelset. Oh, and the extra body weight!

    I know its not ideal to compare the Ciclon and the Flux bike to bike as their design, features, travel etc..are different. My intention was to comment on the suspension design from my own experiences, not to compare the bikes head to head. I think that if I had as El Salt or a 5-spot, and compared the bikes accordingly, my feelings would probably be the same. The DW is not as plush but is a better climber. The Ciclon is stiffer in the rear laterally (from my own experience).

    Both bikes are awesome. The main reasons why I went form the Flux to the Ciclon was the geometry and I wanted more travel.

    But I love Dave Turner's bikes. Oh yeah......I did have an RFX back in the late 90's. That was an awesome bike as well.

    I'm a huge fan of Sherwood and company as well. I like that the bike is made in house, it displays great craftmanship, and it has a kind of classic design aura about it, as opposed to the cutting edge modern physics of the Turner and DW, the Ibis Mojo even moreso.

    DW link comparison?-img_4402_zps7674a74a.jpg
    This is the Path Ciclon.


    I really liked the Flux. It was super solid as well. I think the Spot would be a great ride as well.
    DW link comparison?-img_3536.jpg

  11. #61
    El CicloPath!!!!!!!
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    The pic didnt show... here it is:

    DW link comparison?-img_4402_zps7674a74a.jpg



    hmmm pic not showingup

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