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  1. #1
    T , V , & K Rider
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    Creaking Problem with the Bruja !

    Yes, I'm using a Chris King headset ( for a couple years now) but not sure if this is it or not yet ! It seems to be coming from the front ( headset & fork ) and when I rock the bike back and forth I can get it to creak ! I readjusted the Headset which wasn't noticably loose to begin with but the creak is still present ! Checked all the pivots and they are all snug and no play ! The Lyrik fork shows no noticable slop where the the stanchions meet the lowers either ! Any ideas for diagnosing the problem are appreciated.......... I'll probably check the CK headset again soon and see if this is it ! Thanks ! TIG.

  2. #2
    Proud lame eBiker
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    How old of a headset is it?

    Pull the fork and look at the crown race. If it, or the top cap, have signs of a good amount of wear, it's time to knock out the cups and send them to King and get it taken care of. Also look at the steerer tube interface of the top cap, excess wear here is common.

    I had a many-year-old headset that constantly creaked. I put in a new mylar washer under the first headset pacer and it still creaked. Cleaned and greased the top cap and crown race which helped a little. Finally sucked it up and pulled the cups, which were still pressed very snug into the headtube, and sent to King. Got new bearings, top cap, and crown race for all of $15.
    Then of course in the mean time I bought a Hope headset, then another for my other bike, then one more for that other bike of mine, so I sold off my Kings and have been happily creak free.
    I know the new headset I got back doesn't creak as I installed it on a buddies bike and his bike is nice and quiet.
    www.velocitybicycles.comWhere customers become friends, not simply a dollar sign.

  3. #3
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internal14
    How old of a headset is it?

    Pull the fork and look at the crown race. If it, or the top cap, have signs of a good amount of wear, it's time to knock out the cups and send them to King and get it taken care of. Also look at the steerer tube interface of the top cap, excess wear here is common.
    Make sure you don't over tighten the bearing preload...........this will fail any headset prematurely.......any bearing for that matter.

  4. #4
    T , V , & K Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internal14
    How old of a headset is it?

    Pull the fork and look at the crown race. If it, or the top cap, have signs of a good amount of wear, it's time to knock out the cups and send them to King and get it taken care of. Also look at the steerer tube interface of the top cap, excess wear here is common.

    I had a many-year-old headset that constantly creaked. I put in a new mylar washer under the first headset pacer and it still creaked. Cleaned and greased the top cap and crown race which helped a little. Finally sucked it up and pulled the cups, which were still pressed very snug into the headtube, and sent to King. Got new bearings, top cap, and crown race for all of $15.
    Then of course in the mean time I bought a Hope headset, then another for my other bike, then one more for that other bike of mine, so I sold off my Kings and have been happily creak free.
    I know the new headset I got back doesn't creak as I installed it on a buddies bike and his bike is nice and quiet.

    The CK headset has been installed for about 2 years ! Yeah thanks......I'll check for these wear signs , clean & grease , torque to about 8 to 10 in. lbs. ( I think CK claims not to exceed 15 in. lbs ) the cap bolt into the star-fangled nut , and see what happens ! " If " it turns out to be the CK headset that is creaking I may give a Hope a try or maybe one of the CaneCreek headsets ! TIG.

  5. #5
    Homer's problem child
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIGMAN
    Yes, I'm using a Chris King headset ( for a couple years now) but not sure if this is it or not yet ! It seems to be coming from the front ( headset & fork ) and when I rock the bike back and forth I can get it to creak ! I readjusted the Headset which wasn't noticably loose to begin with but the creak is still present ! Checked all the pivots and they are all snug and no play ! The Lyrik fork shows no noticable slop where the the stanchions meet the lowers either ! Any ideas for diagnosing the problem are appreciated.......... I'll probably check the CK headset again soon and see if this is it ! Thanks ! TIG.
    It's probably your Lyrik and your King. My Lyrik is creaking like crazy at the crown stanction interface. I run a FSA 1.5 headset and my Lyrik is also a 1.5. I don't really care though, it's nothing structural. As soon as winter hits and I'm in full on ski mode I'll see about warranty, I have some other issues with my Lyrik (leaky seals after 7 months of riding is weak) too but it's still ridable.

    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  6. #6
    Bodhisattva
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    Sounds like you've localized the problem to the headset.

    Kings creek with stiff long travel forks. It happened to me, many of my friends, and has been well chronicled on MTBR. You can probably get it to go away by cleaning, greasing, retorquing but in all liklihood it'll come back. I can very faint creaking with my 1.5 FSA Orbit pro and 1.5 Lyrik but it doesn't bother me.

  7. #7
    T , V , & K Rider
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    Yeah I've read about peeps having problems with creaking CK headsets but now I'm wondering if it is the crown stanchion interface of the Lyrik that is creaking because I never had this issue with my Fox 36's with the same King headset ? Like mentioned if its not a safety issue I'll keep riding until the the weather turns to crap and then deal with it ! Man...........I may have to listen to Beastro more about fork recommendations ! Actually I really dig the fork and its worth getting fixed if its the problem ! TIG.

  8. #8
    The Rowdy Scotsman
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    I had a King that creaked like my grandpa's knees... so I popped the cups, slapped some bearing grease on them, re-installed and then made sure not to over tighten the headset.

    Not sure which of these did the trick, but the creaking noise is gone.
    Thought I'd share... for what it's worth.

  9. #9
    not so super...
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    get a Cane Creek 110. If you still have a squeak it's probably the Lyrik crown.
    Nothing to see here.

  10. #10
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    get a Cane Creek 110. If you still have a squeak it's probably the Lyrik crown.
    I'd recommend the CC110 if it weren't for the inadequate warranty.

  11. #11
    not so super...
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I'd recommend the CC110 if it weren't for the inadequate warranty.
    yea, that is a slight shortcoming of the product.
    Nothing to see here.

  12. #12
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIGMAN
    Yeah I've read about peeps having problems with creaking CK headsets but now I'm wondering if it is the crown stanchion interface of the Lyrik that is creaking because I never had this issue with my Fox 36's with the same King headset ? Like mentioned if its not a safety issue I'll keep riding until the the weather turns to crap and then deal with it ! Man...........I may have to listen to Beastro more about fork recommendations ! Actually I really dig the fork and its worth getting fixed if its the problem ! TIG.
    If in deed it's the steer tube/crown/upper tube press fit.......stop using it asap....from an engineering stand point that joint has failed. I had a similiar failure to a 2000 SID XC which was when I stopped buying RS products. They were really reluctant to warranty the upper assembly.....but hopefully now SRAM owns them.....they're better with product liability issues.

  13. #13
    Homer's problem child
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    If in deed it's the steer tube/crown/upper tube press fit.......stop using it asap....from an engineering stand point that joint has failed. I had a similiar failure to a 2000 SID XC which was when I stopped buying RS products. They were really reluctant to warranty the upper assembly.....but hopefully now SRAM owns them.....they're better with product liability issues.
    Are you a lawyer or an engineer? I'm a mech. engineer and have done/seen numberous studies on press fit interfaces and tolerances and how it effects the strength of the joint. A creaky crown just means part tolerances were off during manufacture or the joint has opened up a little after use, it would take a fairly large amount of slop to significantly efect the strength of the cryo-fit joint, much more than a "creak" would indicate from my experience anyway. I think I'll push my luck a little. If I get worried I'l ultrasonically inspect my crown/steerer interface and see if it truely is anything to worry about.

    RS most likely isn't warrantying forks because they are afraid of failure, it's more of a customer satisfaction thing, which they seem to care a lot about since SRAM bought them from what I've seen.

    Thanks for the input though.

    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  14. #14
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    Are you a lawyer or an engineer? I'm a mech. engineer and have done/seen numberous studies on press fit interfaces and tolerances and how it effects the strength of the joint. A creaky crown just means part tolerances were off during manufacture or the joint has opened up a little after use, it would take a fairly large amount of slop to significantly efect the strength of the cryo-fit joint, much more than a "creak" would indicate from my experience anyway. I think I'll push my luck a little. If I get worried I'l ultrasonically inspect my crown/steerer interface and see if it truely is anything to worry about.

    RS most likely isn't warrantying forks because they are afraid of failure, it's more of a customer satisfaction thing, which they seem to care a lot about since SRAM bought them from what I've seen.

    Thanks for the input though.

    B
    I'm a mechanical engineer........and I like my front teeth. I had a college buddy that was the test engineer before SRAM bought them......he busted his eye socket in Santa Cruz testing the 98 SIDs cyro-tit joints. I wasn't privie to the data but trust me if your fork creaks don't ride it...send it in.

  15. #15
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    Are you a lawyer or an engineer? I'm a mech. engineer and have done/seen numberous studies on press fit interfaces and tolerances and how it effects the strength of the joint. A creaky crown just means part tolerances were off during manufacture or the joint has opened up a little after use, it would take a fairly large amount of slop to significantly efect the strength of the cryo-fit joint, much more than a "creak" would indicate from my experience anyway. I think I'll push my luck a little. If I get worried I'l ultrasonically inspect my crown/steerer interface and see if it truely is anything to worry about.

    Thanks for the input though.
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    I'm a mechanical engineer........and I like my front teeth. I had a college buddy that was the test engineer before SRAM bought them......he busted his eye socket in Santa Cruz testing the 98 SIDs cyro-tit joints. I wasn't privie to the data but trust me if your fork creaks don't ride it...send it in.
    [SIZE="7"]GEEK FIGHT !!!!![/SIZE]

    [SIZE="5"]Gentlemen, start your protractors !
    [/SIZE]

  16. #16
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    I'm a mechanical engineer........and I like my front teeth. I had a college buddy that was the test engineer before SRAM bought them......he busted his eye socket in Santa Cruz testing the 98 SIDs cyro-tit joints. I wasn't privie to the data but trust me if your fork creaks don't ride it...send it in.
    my dad can beat up your dad

    by the way, King headsets suck ass...that is my professional opinion...seriously, they do. Have had issues with 2 and I am never getting one again. Not on long travel forks but on single speeds, where torque is constantly high, especially given my python arms

    Cane Creek Solos are great though

  17. #17
    T , V , & K Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    my dad can beat up your dad

    by the way, King headsets suck ass...that is my professional opinion...seriously, they do. Have had issues with 2 and I am never getting one again. Not on long travel forks but on single speeds, where torque is constantly high, especially given my python arms

    Cane Creek Solos are great though

    Hmmm........maybe but rumor has it that gold CK headsets don't creak but all the other colors do ! Actually , I hope it is the headset rather than the Lyrik fork that is creaking or maybe it's something else altogether ! I plan on checking out the Bruja today to see if I can figure out what to throw in a busy street intersection or the neighbor's dumpster ! Looks like its going to be a busy winter of upgrading , PUSHing , and warranty work to get my Ventanas in shape for next spring ! Oh thats right you live in Californication and can ride year round ! TIG.

  18. #18
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    [SIZE="7"]GEEK FIGHT !!!!![/SIZE]

    [SIZE="5"]Gentlemen, start your protractors !
    [/SIZE]
    No pissing contest here.......just a difference of opinions. My Ventana is better than your Ventana..........because it's Army Green

  19. #19
    Ultra Ventanaphile
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    Now, now Vince, I understand your worry but I think you may be over reacting just a bit.
    Bortis is most likey correct it's not structural, yet. You're comparing a failure you experienced, NEARLY A DECADE ago with today's product. It's just not the same.

    2000 Sid = 2.7lbs 28mm Stanchion - Ultralight Race fork vs. A 2007 5.1lbs 36mm Stanchion AM/Freeride Fork.
    Back in 2000 RS had SERIOUS QC issues, today, it's not even the same company.

    Cryofit parts creak, it's the nature of two dissimilar metals interacting, It's hardly a reason to say the joint has failed though. Trust me, In my line of business we have lots of press fit and dissimilar pipe joints. They all make some sort of noise or another, it doesn't mean the joint is about to give up the ghost. Would I keep an eye on it? Yes. if it started clicking or making a more pronounced clunk, Then I'd quit riding it. That's an indication the joint has failed and the two pieces of moving independantly. Now, get your crap together to go riding and meet me at Rockville tomorrow a.m.!

    -A
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  20. #20
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Now, now Vince, I understand your worry but I think you may be over reacting just a bit.
    Bortis is most likey correct it's not structural, yet. You're comparing a failure you experienced, NEARLY A DECADE ago with today's product. It's just not the same.

    2000 Sid = 2.7lbs 28mm Stanchion - Ultralight Race fork vs. A 2007 5.1lbs 36mm Stanchion AM/Freeride Fork.
    Back in 2000 RS had SERIOUS QC issues, today, it's not even the same company.

    Cryofit parts creak, it's the nature of two dissimilar metals interacting, It's hardly a reason to say the joint has failed though. Trust me, In my line of business we have lots of press fit and dissimilar pipe joints. They all make some sort of noise or another, it doesn't mean the joint is about to give up the ghost. Would I keep an eye on it? Yes. if it started clicking or making a more pronounced clunk, Then I'd quit riding it. That's an indication the joint has failed and the two pieces of moving independantly. Now, get your crap together to go riding and meet me at Rockville tomorrow a.m.!

    -A

    I realize the my example was in the olden days of front forks. But you bring up a great point.....creaking of something static is (IMHO) very much different then something that's dynamic in nature........even more so......a front fork on a bike bombing down a trail at 20+ mph. I'm a convervative person by nature......and would stop using it but others may not subscrib to that point of view.

    Don't come cryng to me when you do a face plant due to a broken fork......I don't want to here it.....

    I wish I could ride tomorrow..... I have daddy duty.....so the most I can do is go to the gym and spin. I look forward to the day I will have an excuse to buy a tandem.......I guess I could duct tape him to my bob trailer.

  21. #21
    Homer's problem child
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    [SIZE="7"]GEEK FIGHT !!!!![/SIZE]

    [SIZE="5"]Gentlemen, start your protractors !
    [/SIZE]
    These days it's all lasers. Who uses protracters anymore? I mean..............
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  22. #22
    Ultra Ventanaphile
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    Ahh dad duty. THAT will be me, Tuesday thru Friday while my wife is away at a conference!

    Oh and if you think my "pipes" are static...hehehe, I can show you a pipe or two that'll scare the begeezus out of ya.

    -Aaron

    PS (edit): I have no worries about my fork. Mine doesn't creak and neither does my King.
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  23. #23
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Ahh dad duty. THAT will be me, Tuesday thru Friday while my wife is away at a conference!

    Oh and if you think my "pipes" are static...hehehe, I can show you a pipe or two that'll scare the begeezus out of ya.

    -Aaron

    PS (edit): I have no worries about my fork. Mine doesn't creak and neither does my King.
    Keep your pipe in you pants their pal BTW, My bushing tool is almost out of production.....will send you a picture off line......should start selling them soon.

    You never did post those pictures of the GB ride.

  24. #24
    T , V , & K Rider
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    I checked for signs of unusual wear, cleaned , regreased, and adjusted the CK headset to spec and the creak is still there ! This is really p#ssing me off ! I may swap out the Lyrik with a Fox 36 ( I have access to one ) to see & make sure its the Lyrik that is creaking ! I'm taking mtnbiker4life's advice if it turns out that the Lyrik is creaking and sending it to RS asap since I can ride my nice quiet Capitan anyway until its fixed ! TIG.

  25. #25
    CEO Product Failure
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    Still on topic but a slightly different angle, most times on my bike when it creaks its either the Thomson stem--their pinch bolts when dry creak like a sunuvagun or the bike is about to break. The stem is an easy fix, just liberally apply grease and wipe the excess. A busted bike? Well that's taking some 3, 4, 5 weeks now.

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