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  1. #1
    GMM
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    Ciclon Demo Impressions & Question

    Hi everyone: I'm in the market for a new trail bike, and just got a chance to demo an El Ciclon. I actually got to demo the bike back-to-back with another bike I am considering, which is the Ibis Mojo. Fortunately, I was able to ride both on a familiar trail for me with a mix of semi-technical climbs and downhills, as well as fast single track.

    I rode the Mojo first and will say that it climbed incredibly well. In fact, it's the best climbing bike I have ever ridden (this is my second time demo'ing the Mojo). But since this isn't an Ibis thread, I will keep it brief and say I think ithe Mojo climbs better than it descends. Not that it descends poorly.

    I will preface my Ciclon impressions with the caveat that I didn't feel particularly engergic today, and I haven't ridden in a couple of weeks due to other obligations. With that disclaimer, the Ciclon definately felt sluggish on the climbs. I probably climbed fire roads for 40 minutes before I hit any downhill, and by the time I completed the first portion of my ride, I pretty much had decided I wouldn't want this bike. My current ride is a Titus RX100, and even when I'm tired it doesn't move nearly as slow. Of course, it is an XC bike.

    Then I hit the downhill with the Ciclon Are you kidding me? I didn't realize they made bikes that descend this well. I was faster the first time on this bike than I have ever been on my trusty RX. I couldn't wipe the damn grin off my face and wasn't even feeling well. The bike has an incredible mix of nimbleness and stability. How does Sherwood do that? The bike even felt flickable. How's that? It felt sluggish uphill. I even hit a couple of jumps and the bike just felt so balanced. BTW, I normally don't hit jumps.

    So now I have a real dilema. This bike is so much damn fun, but I'm not sure I can lug it around on the uphills. I do like to climb. Although I will say, I cleared a technical climb that have made only twice before out of maybe 40 tries. So it does excel on the technical stuff.

    I know my climbing style doesn't favor the frame design. I'm definately a masher, and like to stand fairly regularly. This bike clearly favors "sit and spin" climbers. I don't think this old dog can learn new tricks there. So...finally getting to my question...the bike was set-up with a standard Fox float shock. It was really bouncy when I stood up. Will the RP23 eliminate the majority of the pedal induced bob? Again, my background is stiff Titus suspension, which I know has its drawbacks. I am willing to give up some efficiency, but I definately couldn't live with the standard fox. Hopefully, someone will tell me the RP23 will make a big difference. Also, the bike was set-up with Nevegals 2.3 front and back. I would definately put a quicker tire and probably a 2.1 in the rear.

    Anyway that's my initial impression. I have the bike another week. So will see how things go as I spend more time on it.

  2. #2
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    yep...RP23 with high level of propedal will likely give you a bit more of what you look for....

    as you said..also tire choice plays a role...Nevs have great traction but roll slow...

  3. #3
    the train keeps rollin
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    RP23 set to PP1, and Adjustable front travel, Ciclon climbs very well.
    beaver hunt

  4. #4
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    Ciclon and Mojo

    Oh man, the RP23 with Propedal transforms the Ciclon for guys who mash. You ought to try that out. I used to ride that way since i started on a HT and never rode with anyone who tought me anything and I didn't know about mtbr back then. Since then, I have learned to spin (well, maybe not a super-smooth spin) and I find it hard to stand up and mash now. I feel it sucks up too much energy anyway so I don't try.

    The Mojo feels a lot more XCish to me and though I do not own a Ciclon (have owned Ventanas) there is no way the Mojo bike would be in the running as a primary bike if the Ciclon was in the pool. For one, the stiffness difference is just too much. Second, the Ventanas look like works of art to me and the Mojo looks like a morphed Ant

    Overall, I like the Mojo ride over small bumps and medium hits but in the technical and fast/rough trails, it doesn't feel as composed. So when things get rough and fast, I'd rather have a Ciclon. The leverage ratio does make it more squishy-feeling (for some' others like that) on steep climbs but like I said, the Propedal completely changes that.

  5. #5
    Bodhisattva
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    You're on the Ventana board so you'll get pro-Ventana answers.

    Sounds like you're looking for more platform on the climbs & hard to say if the RP23 will make a huge difference because you didn't state what shock & valving were on the demo Ciclon. But, in general, the RP23 appeals to more riders because of its adjustability although I still highly recommend a custom shock tune by Push which really brings the shock to life.

    Those Nevegals are extremely slow rolling & sluggish. Don't underestimate how much tires contribute to the overall feel.

    In the end, you are right that the Mojo is more XC & Ciclon more aggressive trailbike. And, in my experience, Ventanas don't fare well for those who like to stand & mash because there is an initial high leverage force in the rear, although this can be greatly reduced with a good shock tune.

    In the end, it boils down to what you are looking for. I rode a Racer-X for years and have steadily graduated to heavier & more aggressive trailbikes. I suffer the climbs but enjoy the downs.

  6. #6
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    hard to say if the RP23 will make a huge difference because you didn't state what shock & valving were on the demo Ciclon.
    squeaky... the OP said "the bike was set-up with a standard Fox float shock"

    so the RP23 could help

  7. #7
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    squeaky... the OP said "the bike was set-up with a standard Fox float shock"

    so the RP23 could help
    "could"

    Don't forget, a standard Float also has propedal. The issue is set-up.

    Fox offers different valving for all their OEM shocks. And then there are the individual adjustments.

    From my point of view, I could care less whether I have a Float or RP23. I NEVER adjust the propedal settings. But my shock has to be properly tuned.

  8. #8
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    "could"

    Don't forget, a standard Float also has propedal. The issue is set-up.

    Fox offers different valving for all their OEM shocks. And then there are the individual adjustments.

    From my point of view, I could care less whether I have a Float or RP23. I NEVER adjust the propedal settings. But my shock has to be properly tuned.
    I see your point...however with the RP23 on does have a bit more control over the propedal behavior at the same "propedal tune" (the bars on the shock)

    also the on/off lever is a great advantage....

  9. #9
    GMM
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    Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It's helpful.

    I rode the Ciclon again today, and climbing definately felt better. I know the Nevegal 2.3's are boat anchors. Maybe I should try to swap out before my final ride. I spent more time spinning and that definately helped as well. Also, I forgot to mention yesterday, that the demo is set-up with a Pike 454. I am used to my Fox 100X (interia valve). So adjusting the compression on the Pike certainly helped when standing. I wanted to try and see if I could sprint for 50 - 100 yards, and dialing that compression made a big difference. I know this isn't a sprinting bike, but I wanted to try.

    I guess I need to decide if I am really ready to make the change to an AM bike. If I am, I don't think I need to demo anything else. This bike continued to amaze today on rocky and fast single track. It's just a joy to descend on. Now I know what people mean when they say quality of travel is more important than quantity. I would swear this bike has 2" more travel than my RX 100 if I didn't know better.

  10. #10
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMM
    Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It's helpful.

    I rode the Ciclon again today, and climbing definately felt better. I know the Nevegal 2.3's are boat anchors. Maybe I should try to swap out before my final ride. I spent more time spinning and that definately helped as well. Also, I forgot to mention yesterday, that the demo is set-up with a Pike 454. I am used to my Fox 100X (interia valve). So adjusting the compression on the Pike certainly helped when standing. I wanted to try and see if I could sprint for 50 - 100 yards, and dialing that compression made a big difference. I know this isn't a sprinting bike, but I wanted to try.

    I guess I need to decide if I am really ready to make the change to an AM bike. If I am, I don't think I need to demo anything else. This bike continued to amaze today on rocky and fast single track. It's just a joy to descend on. Now I know what people mean when they say quality of travel is more important than quantity. I would swear this bike has 2" more travel than my RX 100 if I didn't know better.
    Set up is the biggest issue standing in your way of making a decision. I have an EL Ciclon with HV RP23 and Talas 32......I race XC with this bike in 120mm mode up front and PP2 setting out back.......perfect handling bike. I very seldom have to drop the front down to 100mm. On recreational rides I typically use the front fork in 140mm mode.

    If you're a masher I'm not sure any FS bike will see no-bob. I think if you really wanted to change your ridding style you would adapt to the Ciclon perfectly. I'm a sit-n-spin type of guy and the Cilcon meets my needs. I've ridden a Ti RX100 but my friends bike was set up with way too much front fork so it didn't handle that great.

    I don't think their is any one perfect bike.....because we all have different types of riding on any typical day. Heck, I could be on my favorite XC trail just doing the training thing and decide I want to take a couple of jumps the AM/FR guys/gals built.....bam done. But then again, I use to jump my first generation Sugar....with its 2.5 inches of rear wheel travel.

  11. #11
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    I think a lot of it was the tires. The Nevegals are very slow rolling and if you put the ProPedal on with some faster rolling tires, the bike will climb much easier.

    In my opinion, the Mojo is purely a cross country bike. It is going to climb better than the Ciclon, but set up correctly, the Ciclon should climb like a champ. Adjusting to a bike that is 5" with a 140mm fork does take some time. After you get used to it...you won't want to get on anything else.

  12. #12
    Unfit Norwegian
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    Great thread! Imagine how a thread like this (asking about a Mojo) would turn out over in the Turner forum!

  13. #13
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    Well, there are a lot more members there (and consequently more "colorful" ones too) and there is a much higher frequency of visitors and trolls too. Things are going to get a bit more heated but even with the heated discussions and entertainment threads, there is a lot of good information shared over there.

    Even DW himself lately got into a debate over there. I bet you he isn't coming here or hitting the Intense forums much. It has always been calm and quiet here but make no mistake- we have zealots here as well and some know who they are- they just rarely get a chance to show their zeal

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed
    Great thread! Imagine how a thread like this (asking about a Mojo) would turn out over in the Turner forum!

    Where the arguments came about the Mojo on the Turner forum was people calling it an "AM" bike. On this thread, it was labeled as a XC bike, which a much more accurate review.

  15. #15
    Unfit Norwegian
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    I know. I love the Turner Forum. It just attracts a lot of trolls and flamebaiters. And man, do they ever get flamed.

  16. #16
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    They sure do. It's like moths to the fire/flame and very entertaining sometimes.

    GMM- there are just a really small handful of bikes that are this good. Once you own one, you will probably have it for a while. Set up the shock/fork correctly and it you will not feel the need to "upgrade" because these isn't much higher to go.

  17. #17
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed
    I know. I love the Turner Forum. It just attracts a lot of trolls and flamebaiters. And man, do they ever get flamed.
    should we invited CRAZY FRED here to BRING THE PAIN ?

    This forum is very civilized. Even FoShizzle behaves on occasion.

  18. #18
    Unfit Norwegian
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    I thought he pulled a "goodbye Passion" on everyone. Or rather a "Goodbye Turner Forum".

  19. #19
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    Well, he said some pretty bad things to people via PM that went way beyond threatening them so then he was shredded a bit on the forum and eventually warned by the mods as well. Hopefully he has learned some self-restraint and not to take things here so seriously. The guys will have a short life with all the stress he self-induces.

    Someone post a few pics of the Ciclon again...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Well, he said some pretty bad things to people via PM that went way beyond threatening them so then he was shredded a bit on the forum and eventually warned by the mods as well. Hopefully he has learned some self-restraint and not to take things here so seriously. The guys will have a short life with all the stress he self-induces.

    Someone post a few pics of the Ciclon again...
    You mean mtbr doesn't control your life???

    Oh yeah...Ciclon pics....



    They even play nice w/Turners


  21. #21
    Paper or plastic?
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    I rode with GMM (actually we ride together most Sundays). Let's just say that GMM climbs fast. So, having a bike that slows him down a tiny bit ain't gonna change the fact that he'll still be waiting for my sorry butt up the hill anyhow.

    I'll say this though: yesterday, he went down the rocky trails maybe faster than usual, but for sure his bike was way more stable than the RX through the rocky bits. As for the climbing, he was still way faster than me with the big Nevi and coil fork and all. My gut feeling is that if he built the Ciclon with lighter wheels (WTB Laserdisc on the demo bike), fork and tires, he'd probably get the Ciclon below 30# and have a nice light trail bike.

    As for the shock. I went from a RP3 to an RP23 on my bike, and the difference was amazing. The propedal actually works as intended. I can only imagine going from a Float to an RP23.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  22. #22
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    Creek crossings just make a trail twice as nice. Great pictures. Yeah, mtbr controls my life too much. I'm logging off and trying hard to not come back till tomorrow. Let's see if that works.

  23. #23
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Creek crossings just make a trail twice as nice. Great pictures. Yeah, mtbr controls my life too much. I'm logging off and trying hard to not come back till tomorrow. Let's see if that works.
    I'll give it less than an hour.

    Hey, there's something cool you should check out on the Light forum !

  24. #24
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    Okay, you're not allowed to lure and bait, Squeaky

    That's it- I'm not even checking my email. The addiction must end.

  25. #25
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Okay, you're not allowed to lure and bait, Squeaky

    That's it- I'm not even checking my email. The addiction must end.
    I give it 10 more minutes and he's back

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