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  1. #1
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    Is a 25lb El Rey possible?

    I want to build an El Rey but really need it in the 25 lb range. Any idea what a large El Rey with all XX and Easton Carbon Wheels would weigh?

  2. #2
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    Yes. i built a Turner Sultan at about 24.74 on Competitive Cyclists Kit Calculator

  3. #3
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    No, not a rideable bike at least. I have seen RDO build-ups with all real parts and ultra *****in Easton wheels that weigh 25lbs. I would think you could build a 27lb bike, maybe.

  4. #4
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    25 lbs MIGHT be possible, but extremely difficult. I weighed my 17in 2012 El Rey at a hair over 26 lbs. That wasn't 100% complete, as I still have to get the cables and housings on there. The build is with an aluminum Lefty Max, full XTR Trail 2x10, and I9 wheels with Crest rims (already had them.) So another pound+ would take some work...and money.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    Out of curiosity, why does it need to be 25 lbs? Does 26 or even 26.5 or 27 lbs make it not ridable?

    I have a very ridable and heavy El Ciclón at 32 lbs. Pedalability means much more than weight.
    Well my main ride is at about 21lbs. My buddy's Giant FS 29er is under 25lbs.
    If I build a 29er FS I just want one at or around 25.

    It looks like if I go full XX and Easton Wheels tubeless with Rocket Rons it is going to be close.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killrop View Post
    Well my main ride is at about 21lbs. My buddy's Giant FS 29er is under 25lbs.
    If I build a 29er FS I just want one at or around 25.

    It looks like if I go full XX and Easton Wheels tubeless with Rocket Rons it is going to be close.
    Ventana full suspension bikes and weight weenies don't mix; The solid frame will more than make up for the extra weight if you ride aggressively. Don't compare your buddy's Giant frame to a Ventana frame, they're not even in the same league. It sounds like you have the means to buy nice parts, don't worry about a couple extra pounds of frame weight on the V compared to a carbon flexo disposable frame.

    Trek had a demo day here last weekend and I chose to ride a Remedy 9.8, carbon , super light weight for a 6" travel bike and it doesn't hold a candle to my "old" design Ventana Elchucho (32lbs). I could feel the weight difference on smooth climbs but in tech and especially descending it felt like riding in an economy car on a bad rode, defiantly not worth the $5,500 price tag. I did like the new xt brakes on it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff in Bend View Post
    Ventana full suspension bikes and weight weenies don't mix; The solid frame will more than make up for the extra weight if you ride aggressively. Don't compare your buddy's Giant frame to a Ventana frame, they're not even in the same league. It sounds like you have the means to buy nice parts, don't worry about a couple extra pounds of frame weight on the V compared to a carbon flexo disposable frame.

    Trek had a demo day here last weekend and I chose to ride a Remedy 9.8, carbon , super light weight for a 6" travel bike and it doesn't hold a candle to my "old" design Ventana Elchucho (32lbs). I could feel the weight difference on smooth climbs but in tech and especially descending it felt like riding in an economy car on a bad rode, defiantly not worth the $5,500 price tag. I did like the new xt brakes on it.
    Well I'm already sold on the Ventana robustness (is that a word?). I had an '08 El Rey and sold it last spring to fund a new one. I agree that the stiffness will make up some of that weight difference. However the old El Rey was about 28 lbs. It wasn't a problem for me because that was a trail bike. This new one I am contemplating using as a race bike. Which is why I was hoping to get it at 25 lbs or so. A guy can dream right? I was wondering if anyone was able to get it in that range.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killrop View Post
    Well I'm already sold on the Ventana robustness (is that a word?). I had an '08 El Rey and sold it last spring to fund a new one. I agree that the stiffness will make up some of that weight difference. However the old El Rey was about 28 lbs. It wasn't a problem for me because that was a trail bike. This new one I am contemplating using as a race bike. Which is why I was hoping to get it at 25 lbs or so. A guy can dream right? I was wondering if anyone was able to get it in that range.
    Hey KR, yeah you can dream!

    Just keep in mind that a large El Rey is probably right around 7.5 lbs so you need to make up the weight compared to the anthems 5.XX somewhere, and full XX and Carbon wheels are definately where it's at. Maybe go with the Sid XX world cup? I bet a 25/26# El Rey will fly on any course.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff in Bend View Post
    Ventana full suspension bikes and weight weenies don't mix; The solid frame will more than make up for the extra weight if you ride aggressively.
    It might not be the lightest bike on the block, but it doesn't have to be the heaviest either.

    I've got a 24 pound El Fuego (same frame as the Salty from a while back), and a 27 and change pound Ciclon. Nothing stupidly light, but not heavy by any means.

    I'll take a little weight penalty on the frames, they track nicely and inspire confidence. I've ended up killing a wheel or two trying to keep up with someone riding terrain (ok jumping) on a 3" travel bike. The bike was fine, but the lightweight wheels didn't like it.
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  10. #10
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    Two words: Speed Holes.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  11. #11
    Getaway Cycle Center
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    2012 20inch elrey with basic build.......28.5lbs
    wtb speeddisc with deore hubs
    nevegals
    rock shock 100mm reba
    sram x9 2x10

    with light wheels, more thomson, and beter choice of tires, lighter crank & cassette,
    i bet it would be easily well under 27lbs,

  12. #12
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    A friend of mine has a 2010 Specialized Pitch comp thats 33 pounds. During a race he used a new carbon Epic (25 pounds) for a lap. Went from 48min to 43min which is really impressive. At the same time dropping 1-2 pounds within the same frame would likely only make a difference of 30 seconds roughly.

    I still understand the desire to mess with a bike. My xxl El Capitan is 30 pounds which isn't bad for being such a large trail bike with stout components but part of me wants to get it into the 28lb range.

  13. #13
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    Care to put a little science in that calculation?
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  14. #14
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    Here's a 26.74 lb El Rey. 17in. XTR Trail 2x10. I9-Crest wheels. Alum Lefty Max spaced to 120mm right now. Like I said, 25lbs might be possible, but difficult, expensive, and the build may not end up being that great a match to the frame.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Is a 25lb El Rey possible?-img_1153-copy.jpg  


  15. #15
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    Wow. Well done on the build. I gotta say it looks lighter in the photo. This may be the first time I've ever said on MTBR that someone's claimed bike weight is higher than I would expect.

  16. #16
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    I would think science could explain parts of the time difference. The rest is mental which is still important. When you step onto a light race bike you will push yourself more.

    My friend in the race did the second lap on the Epic expert. There are always going to be too many variables. Maybe if you stuck a power tap hub on each bike you could compare rider output to time. That may still ignore drivetrain and suspension loss though since the hub would only measure watts at the rear wheel.

    Since modeling gets so complex it seems easier to do a loop on each bike and compare times. Some of the speed increase will be mental but is that really a bad thing? I'm switching to 180mm cranks (6'6" tall) and while I have read many studies showing crank length will not increase my power output my goal is fit, comfort. In the end I may be faster not due to any mechanical advantage but a mental one. Or maybe Ill be slower, I don't really care I just want to ride.

  17. #17
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    Real weight weenies weigh their bike to the thousandth of a lb....for instance my old skool La Bruja weighs in at 35.978 lbs ! If it weighed a bit over or an even 36 lbs I'd be pi$$ed...as you can see I'm very concerned about this so it doesn't hinder my performance ! TIG.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek View Post
    Two words: Speed Holes.

    So much love this. ALWAYS gets a laugh from me. Reminds me of the late 80's / early 90's, when people were drilling holes in things, thinking they knew more than the designers that designed the parts. Always an epic fail about to happen.
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  19. #19
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    The new El Rey frame is not lighter then the old one? My El Rey (the one I bought from killrop) is 12 Kg, should be 26.5 lbs right? I don't really see mayor weight savings, but some places to gain weight on my bike:

    - wheels. The Hope pro2/Crest rims are about 1680g, there are wheelsets out there of around 1400g. savings 200-300g.
    - Handlebars. My Syntace is around 190g. Savings: 90g
    - Shifters/Deraileurs: I have Shimano XT shifters, SLX front/ durace rear. Maybe I could gain 30-50g here.
    - Forks: Carbon Lefty would be 100-200g lighter.
    - Pedals could be lighter
    - Brakes could be lighter (not a lot).

    So this would add to around 600g of saving, bringing the total to around 11.4 Kg = 25.1 lbs. If you swap tires and use latex in stead of innertubes, this could be even more, but I don't like latex and don't want to compromise on the tires.


  20. #20
    Getaway Cycle Center
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    i used to race a 24 lbs jamis xcr 4in fs steep head tube in rocky north nj.......last 1/3 of my class.

    switched to a 31 lbs 6 inch FS slack Ht banshee rune and moved up to mid 1/3 of the class.

    Same Fitness Level.

    The technical sections got so easy that i few over them and moved up by more then a few seconds......more like 20% faster.

    Now the el rey at 28.5 lbs. This bike rides everything thatbthe 6 inch bike does but feels faster due to the fast rolling 29er wheel. I have not raced it but i think similar results......maybe a few seconds faster....i dont know.....

  21. #21
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    Here she is....

    Let the fun begin!

    " width="549">

  22. #22
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    Nice color. So you finnaly bit the bullet and ordered one? Are you going to try to get it around 25lbs? and how?

    About the XX cranks, they fit fine on my old El Rey, but with minimal clearance.



    That's about 2-3mm.
    Last edited by zonoskar; 12-27-2011 at 09:43 AM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwitte View Post
    Here's a 26.74 lb El Rey. 17in. XTR Trail 2x10. I9-Crest wheels. Alum Lefty Max spaced to 120mm right now. Like I said, 25lbs might be possible, but difficult, expensive, and the build may not end up being that great a match to the frame.
    That all black frame looks killer!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough View Post
    Wow. Well done on the build. I gotta say it looks lighter in the photo. This may be the first time I've ever said on MTBR that someone's claimed bike weight is higher than I would expect.
    I think the matte black has you visually fooled to think carbon fiber........

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonoskar View Post
    Nice color. So you finnaly bit the bullet and ordered one? Are you going to try to get it around 25lbs? and how?

    About the XX cranks, they fit fine on my old El Rey, but with minimal clearance.



    That's about 2-3mm.
    Well the dude with the black El Rey was at 26.74. Going XX will drop about 400g from XTR. The seat I plan to use will be almost another 100g. The stem and grips I can drop probably another 60g. Those Maxis tires are at least 100g heavier than the Rocket Rons I will use. Each. So that is 760g or so less than 26.74. Or about 25.25 lbs. Give or take a few grams.

    I will be happy if I can get it under 26.

    Those cranks are close. I think I may get Q164

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killrop View Post
    I will be happy if I can get it under 26.

    Those cranks are close. I think I may get Q164
    They never touched the frame on my bike and I never hit the rear stays with my ankle, so I'm fine with the minimal clearance. How much does your frame weigh?

  27. #27
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    What are people paying for the new Ventana frames? Did Sherwood up the price from the straight tubed stuff?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45ronin View Post
    What are people paying for the new Ventana frames? Did Sherwood up the price from the straight tubed stuff?
    Prices are unchanged from the previous models.

  29. #29
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    So I have found out for myself. A 25 lb El Rey is possible. Well, a 25lb-ish anyway.

    El Rey (19 inch)
    Fox Fork
    XX Cranks BB30 Press Fit
    XX Shifters
    XX Cass
    XX Derailleurs
    Ritchey Stem
    King Headset
    Truvativ World Cup bars
    Easton Carbon Post EA90
    WTB Silverado seat
    Avid Elixer CR Brakes
    ECI Racer grips
    Eggbeater Pedals SL
    I9/Arch wheels

    As it sits the bike weighs 26 lbs 7 ounces. I have a EA90 seatpost, ti bolt kits, Ti spindle and Rocket Ron tires en route. This will be a savings of about 10 oz. Putting me around 25 lb. 13 oz. If I step up and get the Enve wheels I have been eying, but don't have the stones to get, I would drop another 290g. Putting the El Rey at 25 lbs-3 OZ.

    Here is almost the finished product. Waiting on the parts listed and a rear brake cable. The one I had wasn't long enough to fish through the frame.
    Sorry for the crappy pic. High quality photos to come...

    I have not had a chance to test it out yet. Well, I rode it around the block. Not much of a test.


  30. #30
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    Its hard to find any good pics of the new bikes. Here you go!




  31. #31
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    Wow, that's beautiful. Even with the bendy top tube. Love the color.

  32. #32
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    Killrop that really is a very nice bike. Have been able to ride it at all to give us a report?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by discodave View Post
    Killrop that really is a very nice bike. Have been able to ride it at all to give us a report?
    Unfortunately NO. Its 15 degrees out and there is probably a good 5 inches of snow outside.
    As soon as I get a couple trail rides I will be sure to compare it to the old El Rey in great detail.

    This pic captures the true color of the bike. I had some White Balance issues on the last group and didn't do that good a job fixing it.

    Last edited by Killrop; 02-12-2012 at 04:34 PM.

  34. #34
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    I have a 2010 El Rey semi custom with only one row of bearings and a El Padrino BB shell. Built with XX, FOX RLC and Hope IIs with Stans Alpha rims its 26lbs with fairly heavy Time pedals. With DT 240 hubs Stans Olympic rims, Thomson Masterlight stem, seat post, ultra light seat, no thru-axle you might be able to get close. But I don't think it would be worth it.

  35. #35
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    OP, you realize 1-2 lbs isn't go to make a difference, unless it's rotating weight? I used to be a weight weenie, I built up a 24lb Motolite, then I added weight to make the bike an everyday bike. Bikes for a scale are ghey.
    beaver hunt

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdrifter View Post
    OP, you realize 1-2 lbs isn't go to make a difference, unless it's rotating weight? I used to be a weight weenie, I built up a 24lb Motolite, then I added weight to make the bike an everyday bike. Bikes for a scale are ghey.
    There isn't any part of this build that is a weak link. I would never sacrifice durability for weight savings. Its arguable if 1-2 pounds will make a difference. I do know one thing. If given the choice of a 25 lb bike or a 27 I know which I chose.

  37. #37
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwitte View Post
    Here's a 26.74 lb El Rey. 17in. XTR Trail 2x10. I9-Crest wheels. Alum Lefty Max spaced to 120mm right now. Like I said, 25lbs might be possible, but difficult, expensive, and the build may not end up being that great a match to the frame.
    wow, sweet build yo

  38. #38
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    UPDATE: Enve wheels are shipping Monday. I will install and update the final weigh in. Should come in around 25 1/2 lbs. And BTW I am not a WW. I would have never ordered Chris King hubs if I was...or a 7.2 lb frame for that matter.

  39. #39
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    nice bike

    Very nice build!!

    Any news? Pics with new Wheels?

    Do you have a Pic from Frame on scale? Thanks!!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killrop View Post
    UPDATE: Enve wheels are shipping Monday. I will install and update the final weigh in. Should come in around 25 1/2 lbs. And BTW I am not a WW. I would have never ordered Chris King hubs if I was...or a 7.2 lb frame for that matter.
    When are you going to post pics of the El Rey with the carbon wheels. Been waiting patiently.

  41. #41
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    I'm getting close to being in the 25's with my 19" El Rey. I'm doing a rim swap (Flow's being replaced with carbon) next week and replacing my tires with Rocket Ron's. The specs say 640g will come off the bike which weighs 26'12" right now. After riding this bike though, I'm a believer that a few pounds makes little difference in thus amazing frame. It's just fun to see how light you can go and still be a solid build.
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  42. #42
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    I had Rocket Rons on mine up until a couple weeks ago. I was washing out constantly. Plus the push sand. Very loose feeling in the deep stuff. We have a lot of that here in Michigan. I switched back to the Racing Ralphs. Much better and only about 30g per pair heavier than R. Rons.

  43. #43
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    This bike looks beautiful!

    Maybe go with a lighter weight flat handlebar and flip your stem for a positive rise?
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  44. #44
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    I'm officially giving up the game at 25 pounds and 11 ounces. That is what the El Rey stands at today after mounting my new Nancy Carbon Rim/Industry Nine wheelset. That weight is ready to ride. No silly weight weenie shortcuts in the interest of making a certain number. I am completely stoked by my bike. I'd take more pics but it is dark and we got dumped on last night with over a foot of snow.

    Build Spec:

    2012 19" El Rey with 142x12 rear
    2013 Fox F29 CTD 100mm 15mm thru fork
    Chris King Inset Headset and Bottom Bracket
    Industry Nine XC/Light Bicycle wide 29er carbon rims/Bontrager rim strips
    Schwalbe Rocket Ron 2.25 Pacestar EVO front/Racing Ralph 2.25 Pacestar EVO rear
    XTR M985 2x10 40/28 cranks
    XTR M980 triggers
    XTR M980 Front mech
    XTR M98x Shadow+ Rear mech
    XTR M980 chain
    XTR M980 11-36 cassette
    Hope Tech X2 Special Edition brakes w/braided lines w/matchmakers/Hope floating rotors 183/160mm
    ENVE 100mm stem
    ENVE flat handlebar
    EDGE 30.9 setback seatpost
    Terry FLX carbon rail seat
    ESI Chunky grips
    XTR M980 pedals
    K-Edge Garmin mount
    Jagwire silver braided housing

    All that adds up to 25 pounds and 11 ounces.
    Last edited by hogprint; 12-21-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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  45. #45
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  46. #46
    Jeffro
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwitte View Post
    Here's a 26.74 lb El Rey. 17in. XTR Trail 2x10. I9-Crest wheels. Alum Lefty Max spaced to 120mm right now. Like I said, 25lbs might be possible, but difficult, expensive, and the build may not end up being that great a match to the frame.
    That is one hell've nice looking bike.

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