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  1. #1
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    Walmart in Moab?

    I ahve a love/hate relationship with Walmart. I would hate to see Moab lose it's uniqueness. http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_8725600

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    I have the same feeling about Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by wookie
    I ahve a love/hate relationship with Walmart. I would hate to see Moab lose it's uniqueness. http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_8725600
    but that doesn't mean I don't shop there occasionally. In a location like Moab, it's feast or famine for the local businesses. Some just don't do enough volume in the winter to make it and I imagine their inventories dwindle. With a mega-funded Walmart there (hope it doesn't go in on the north side!) the locals could stop having to make the trip to Grand Junction for locally unavailable stuff. Weighing the convenience factor against the hit the small business would take competing against Walmart is always an ongoing debate but with gas over $3 I bet the permanent population there would welcome Walmart. Plus it would bring in jobs.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  3. #3
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    Mal-Wart

    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    but that doesn't mean I don't shop there occasionally. In a location like Moab, it's feast or famine for the local businesses. Some just don't do enough volume in the winter to make it and I imagine their inventories dwindle. With a mega-funded Walmart there (hope it doesn't go in on the north side!) the locals could stop having to make the trip to Grand Junction for locally unavailable stuff. Weighing the convenience factor against the hit the small business would take competing against Walmart is always an ongoing debate but with gas over $3 I bet the permanent population there would welcome Walmart. Plus it would bring in jobs.
    I think the majority of people would prefer that Walmart just go away, but the city is over a barrel on it. San Juan has already said it would gladly approve one just over the line, which would cause even more sprawl down that way, and the city gets all the negative impact with none of the tax benefits.

    More barely-above minimum wage jobs are not needed in Moab. There are not enough workers to fill the jobs that are available, because there is nowhere to live. The cost of housing has more than doubled in the last ten years. Moab is like a lot of resort communities in the west, but with one big difference: there is nowhere to commute from. You can't have the 'down valley' effect that Aspen and Vail have had, because the closest large towns are Price and Grand Junction, and you aren't going to be commuting to a low paying job from 80-100 miles away. Wal Mart will pay just enough over minimum to get the workers they need, and the vacuum left behind will cause the local businesses to close. Then Wal Mart will control the labor market, and the money will flow from local pockets to Arkansas. This has happened over and over again.

    The system is clearly broken. If the government had a real care for its constituents, it would have created a regional planning area for the Moab Valley that could have prevented the pitting of Moab/Grand against San Juan. This is going to happen over and over again in the future.

  4. #4
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    GRAVELBIKE.COM - ride everything

  5. #5
    formerly shabadu
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    The thought of a Wallyworld in Moab makes me want to throw up.
    I wonder if the town could even sustain a store of that size? I have my doubts.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowtron
    The thought of a Wallyworld in Moab makes me want to throw up.
    I wonder if the town could even sustain a store of that size? I have my doubts.
    Wallyworld is evil, no doubt about it. I saw the same thing happen in Silver City, NM. Wallyworld opened and the old downtown pretty much dried up and blew away. But, after a few years, the downtown area kind of regenerated itself into a more artsy, hippy, cool, place - the polar opposite of Wallyworld.

    Bottom line: People who shop at Walmart hate America.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  7. #7
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    I have news for you. Moab lost its uniqueness decades ago. It really is no different than any other tourist town where well over half of the population is transient at any given time. The people who actually live in Moab full time should decide this, not tourists who spend three or four days a year there.

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    Bottom line: People who shop at Walmart hate America.

    I don't know about that-I can't justify spending twice as much on something in order to spite Walmart.

    I have news for you. Moab lost its uniqueness decades ago. It really is no different than any other tourist town where well over half of the population is transient at any given time. The people who actually live in Moab full time should decide this, not tourists who spend three or four days a year there.

    Without tourists, Moab would be little more than a ghost town, but thanks for the lecture.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowtron
    The thought of a Wallyworld in Moab makes me want to throw up.
    I wonder if the town could even sustain a store of that size? I have my doubts.
    The town doesn't have to sustain the store. It can draw its sustenance from the corporation itself, until it can stand on its own, unlike local businesses, and It will also draw rural shoppers from a hundred miles away.
    You know, pretty much what xcguy was saying. Local business struggling through the off season, and no more long drives to GJ or price.

    I can only hope Home Depot moves in before Lowes. HD will at least pay a living wage, where Lowes plays the same game as wallyworld.

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    Yeah, I know lots of mountainbikers are lefty nutjobs, but I seriously doubt tourists are going to stop going to Moab just because there is a WalMart there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMMAROO
    Yeah, I know lots of mountainbikers are lefty nutjobs, but I seriously doubt tourists are going to stop going to Moab just because there is a WalMart there.
    True! and they carry department store mt. bikes, which will undoubtedly bring more business to the local ER, as well as the local attorneys. See, there is an up-side.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookie
    I ahve a love/hate relationship with Walmart. I would hate to see Moab lose it's uniqueness. http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_8725600
    I have no love for Wal Mart. It isn't even in my spell checker!
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

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    When I posted this thread. it was not my intention of starting a Wal Mart flame war. For me, part of the Moab experience is going to the City Market an waiting in their ghastly lines; it reminds me of previous Moabs trips. I am more dissappointed that Moab has grown so much that it needs a supercenter. I remember when the road into Park City only had two roads, and it was fairly inexpensive to rent a room; it has become so commercialized. I guess you can't stop progress? This reply has not been spell-checked.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookie
    [I]
    I don't know about that-I can't justify spending twice as much on something in order to spite Walmart.
    And there you have it. Low wages for their employees. Importation of cheap overseas crap at prices that are unsustainable in their country of origin let alone in the US just so you can save a dollar and pass the profits to Wallyworld and economic repercussions and all that entails on to somebody else. Like I said, Wallyworld is for people who hate America.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

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    You must be one of the now-defunct F-88 lurkers.

  16. #16
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    If you don't like Walmart then don't shop there. I made that decision about a year ago after learning about it's business practices. It's inevitable that it's going to keep growing and popping up in more places, people love conveinece and low prices - regardless of what it does to communities and the economy as a whole. Cheap disposable goods reign supreme in America over thier higher-priced, higher quality competitiors (bikes too).

    It's sad in some respects, but it's probably going to happen. I fight multinational, faceless, and irresponsible companys by not shopping them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado
    If you don't like Walmart then don't shop there. I made that decision about a year ago after learning about it's business practices. It's inevitable that it's going to keep growing and popping up in more places, people love conveinece and low prices - regardless of what it does to communities and the economy as a whole. Cheap disposable goods reign supreme in America over thier higher-priced, higher quality competitiors (bikes too).

    It's sad in some respects, but it's probably going to happen. I fight multinational, faceless, and irresponsible companys by not shopping them.
    I'm with you, my brother! I've been boycotting them for years.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookie
    You must be one of the now-defunct F-88 lurkers.
    Maybe.

    Or maybe I'm just somebody who tries to look at what's going on behind the 5% off smiley face.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  19. #19
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    I'll stop at Wal-Mart for hunting & fishing licenses. Ammo & lures too. Only if I'm in a pinch though. I'd much rather stop at a good old sporting goods store.

  20. #20
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    ALCO for life! South Siiiiiiiide!

  21. #21
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    The county to the South of Moab (Grand County is where Moab is) doesn't have much of anything and they will allow Wal-Mart (which would sit just outside of Moab) and then Moab will reap none of the rewards of having it, but will suffer all the consequences (lost business, jobs, taxes, etc). So, instead if fighting that, they caved in on a city vote of 3-2 to accept it. I have sent them a note saying let the residents decide, but of course they won't listen. None of the politicians will have any financial short falls with this action.
    It's not an adventure until someone BLEEDS!

  22. #22
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    It's a tough one. I understand the bind that the city is in and the jobs will be nice. But I still hate the thought of one more anonymous storefront, one more big-box black eye for a town that still has a lot of unique character. Just wait until the UMTRA project kicks in full steam and 1500 families move there. They aren't going to be voting against WalMart to preserve city character, I promise you that.

    Anyone can complain that things "just aint what they used to be," and I guess that's what I am doing now. But it's sad, and if it doesn't bother you, maybe it should. I don't want every city on the map to become a regimented complex that you recognize on your first visit - with the usual stores on the usual streets in the usual locations. That plan exists already, I like to call it "everywhere" and I am sad each time "somewhere" falls into that category.

    JMH

  23. #23
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    Several people have said that people who only visit Moab shouldn't express an opinion and that we should leave the choices to locals. This doesn't hold - Moab and environs are national treasures. I care what happens there just as I care what happens in other places I can't live, but hope that my descendants can visit one day. No matter how much people dislike our sticking our noses in, we care about this place.

    I don't own property in Moab, partly because I think that the last thing Moab needs is more development of seasonally occupied tourist dwellings. I would rather pay a locally owned business for lodging when I do visit. This is why we never stay at the chain motels, and we never eat at the chain restaurants.

    I understand the dilemma presented by San Juan County. There is a flaw in the system that allows corporations to mow over towns like Moab. It is wrong. I really believe that if every individual who is against this type of development expresses that opinion, it can make a difference. Write to the council even though they have voted. Write to San jaun County, even though they have given verbal approval. Write to the sewer district, ask them to not give permits. Write to the governor of Utah and express your love for this place.

    Just because something is a losing battle doesn't mean you shouldn't fight it. It is good t be passionate.
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

  24. #24
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    Having lived in several resort areas over the last 30 years I have heard most of the arguments for/against change, Walmart, Safeway,ect. The long time residents (very long) want cheaper groceries, lumber and other goods. They want local shops and stores to be well stocked and have helpfull friendly help. They do not want to drive from Moab or Gunnison to Grand Junction or from Laramie and Cheyenne to Ft. Collins. Many do not like the changes, (restrictions) that the newer long time residents have put into place to preserve their quality of life and tourist related incomes. And the very new, well, they will probably be gone and back to higher paying jobs and affordable housing after trying to survive one off season. Moab has changed and will continue too change. It has changed since I used to drive through, why stop, in the seventies. It has changed since my wife first road Slickrock in '87. I am sure Rim Cycle wishes they were still the only game in town. I was told once that "things that remain the same never change". Moab has changed, will change and will change again. The local population will decide, Gunnison Co. stopped a Supper Walmart, and life will go on. As Noah said, you can choose to shop or not to shop at any store. I enjoyed Moab 15 years ago and I enjoyed it this weekend. Good luck to the Moab area residents.
    D.O.N.

  25. #25
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    Politics in Moab

    The politics in Moab are way more complex than you would imagine for a town that size. You have Moab City, Grand County, San Juan County, the state, SITLA (State land purveyor/in the pocket of developers), BLM, NPS, NFS, DOE. Then there is Grand Water and Sewer, which is way too eager to over subscribe water to developments outside the city, like Cloudrot, and San Juan County developments like nebulous Wal Marts and the silly business park in the middle of nowhere down on Hwy 191.

    Did I mention that the LDS church runs all of the non-Federal entities, and has hooks in the Fed ones, too?

    It is enough to make someone want to ignore it all and just ride.



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