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  1. #1
    Really I am that slow
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    True Grit is going down nwxt weekend

    Just a heads up to those who may be riding in SW utah next weekend. check the link trueGrit Epic Bike Race

    On Saturday the green valley race coruse, barrel ride, zen, top portion of bearlaw, stuki springs, rim runner, barrel roll, cove wash well be closed to traffic of the non racer type

    so plan of hitting stuff east of town next Saturday
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  2. #2
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    I am heading down from Colorado for the race. Hoping for better weather this year as mother nature has derailed my last two trips to St. George. If anyone is around I am going to try and ride Goosebeery and JEM Friday, I will be solo but from what I have read those two areas are pretty easy to navigate.

  3. #3
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    I noticed the race is routed through the connector between Clavicle Hill and the Stucki double track climb, which my dad pioneered. I have mixed feelings about organizers making $ using public trails for racing......
    I like bikes.

  4. #4
    I'd rather be biking...
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasea04 View Post
    I noticed the race is routed through the connector between Clavicle Hill and the Stucki double track climb, which my dad pioneered. I have mixed feelings about organizers making $ using public trails for racing......
    Please explain more, I'm curious...

    What about the bike manufacturers? They are making money off the bikes that are for the most part used specifically on public trails.

    The bike shops make money by selling maps for people to ride on public trails.

    I'm sure the city's main intent for approving public trails is to promote a outdoor lifestyle to bring in potential home buyers and bring money to the economy from tourists staying in motels, eating at restaurants, etc.

    Against the Ironman and even the city for doing the marathon on public roads?

    blah blah blah...

    I could be persuaded by all this since the money eventually trickles into my pocket from events like this

    Wasea is it because the trails are closed for the day and the impact from it?

    I can only see positive things coming from an event like this. Helps bring the sport to life and can only help with building more "legal" trails in the area. I would love to see Zen and barrel ride fenced off from moto traffic, signed and, recognized by the city as a legal trail.

    I'm happy when I see people riding their bikes and having a good time.

  5. #5
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    First off I have never put on a race, but I can't imagine that many race promoters are getting rich off the race fees. Seems like the fees help recoup their costs for planning and permitting the race. I think the big picture is a little more like Shelbster mentioned, putting this race on and charging a guy like me from CO is getting me to drive down to your area, spend $300 on a hotel room for the weekend, probably eat out with the family several times and probably spend some money at the local shop. Then I go home tell my buddies how sweet the trails were, then they tell their friends and next thing you know people are adding St. George to their list of must do bike trips. Maybe just my glass is half full way of looking at things, but to be honest I would like to put on a race in my area so we could promote responsible trail building expansion and to bring business to our economy. My 2 cents

  6. #6
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    Wasea, of all the things to get upset about the Grit and you chose that one?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foote30 View Post
    First off I have never put on a race, but I can't imagine that many race promoters are getting rich off the race fees. Seems like the fees help recoup their costs for planning and permitting the race. I think the big picture is a little more like Shelbster mentioned, putting this race on and charging a guy like me from CO is getting me to drive down to your area, spend $300 on a hotel room for the weekend, probably eat out with the family several times and probably spend some money at the local shop. Then I go home tell my buddies how sweet the trails were, then they tell their friends and next thing you know people are adding St. George to their list of must do bike trips. Maybe just my glass is half full way of looking at things, but to be honest I would like to put on a race in my area so we could promote responsible trail building expansion and to bring business to our economy. My 2 cents
    I agree with all of the above. There are very few races put on, that don't use public land and trails. I don't race, and am actually making a trip to St. George this weekend. Just had to plan what trails we are riding around the race. It think this race specifically is great for the St. George ecomony, and for the sport of mtn biking. I only wish I had the endurance to do this race. I am thinking maybe I will train and try for next year.

  8. #8
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    I guess I'm schizoid, and I don't want to share. Hey Mark, I am looking into a Rip 9, yea or nay, and what's your beef(s) with the True Grit? Shelbster, relax man, I know your BFF's with the promoters and you feel compelled to defend them, but you're all overreacting. It simply occurred to me while reading about the True Grit that $ is being made on local trails, and it struck me oddly is all.
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  9. #9
    I'd rather be biking...
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    [QUOTE=wasea04;9096180 Shelbster, relax man, I know your BFF's with the promoters and you feel compelled to defend them, but you're all overreacting. It simply occurred to me while reading about the True Grit that $ is being made on local trails, and it struck me oddly is all.[/QUOTE]

    I understand your point. I just wanted to get in a boxing match. Thats what all these forums are about. Hiding behind a keyboard . I'm not upset man. I just have a different view. I know Cim has been in the negative with some prior events and is barely breaking even let alone getting rich of these events for hours spent getting them up and running. I can only pat her on the back for what she is trying to accomplish down here.

    The same person is the major player behind the resent BLM trail planning proposal for trail advocacy down here. The meetings were open to the public and I was amazed by how many people didnt show up. I know there are more then 12 mountain bikers down here.



    I Just hope you wont be hiding in a bush and hit me with a shovel next time I run into you.

  10. #10
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    Shelby, You know it's all good man, I was just being a little goofy. Cimarron has probably been the foremost promoter of the sport in general in St.George since people began riding off road bikes in the area; nothing but respect for her. I am having trouble shifting from living in a formerly unknown riding area to being on the same level as Moab.....
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  11. #11
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    As long as the traffic disappears on Sunday so I have Jem/Goulds/Canal trail to myself I am not worried!

    I'm with Wasea, I liked the unknown paradise aspect of a lot of the trails in St. George and it is hard to adjust to the increased traffic.

    At least I have Cedar City to myself!

  12. #12
    Really I am that slow
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    I can understand

    Having mixed feelings about someone making a buck off public lands, but better a mtb race then a gas well or mining?

    As for increased traffic on the StG/Hurricane trails more MTB traffic shows BLM and other government agency's that mtb use is growing and allows mtb'ers to push for more riding options. I moved to this part of the world in part because most of the time I have the trails to myself.

    Why i'm on the board of Mtn Bikers for Dixie trails. Is to get more legal, approved trails built, and keep what we have... And MTB racing is part of showing the area and showing how low impact large groups of mtb'ers can be

    just my .02 i'll be out towards barrel roll/rim runner checking racers and manning an aid station Saturday for the race
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerThenSnot View Post
    Having mixed feelings about someone making a buck off public lands, but better a mtb race then a gas well or mining?

    As for increased traffic on the StG/Hurricane trails more MTB traffic shows BLM and other government agency's that mtb use is growing and allows mtb'ers to push for more riding options. I moved to this part of the world in part because most of the time I have the trails to myself.

    Why i'm on the board of Mtn Bikers for Dixie trails. Is to get more legal, approved trails built, and keep what we have... And MTB racing is part of showing the area and showing how low impact large groups of mtb'ers can be

    just my .02 i'll be out towards barrel roll/rim runner checking racers and manning an aid station Saturday for the race
    I have no idea what the impact is in the areas that you ride, but I can tell you for certain, every time the Local Rotary Club holds races on our local single track, the damage to the trails is significant and noticeable. Lot's of skidding and new speed bumps show up before turns, new short cut lines that are faster appear, and it all happens during practice on the course and the race. Come Monday, the promoter and the money are long gone, the trails are chewed up, and there's no one to do the repair work. Those are facts, I've seen it 3 years in a row now.

    There may be no impact from racers in your area, but there certainly is in my area. Racers are hard on their equipment and hard on the trails around here. I wouldn't comment if the promoter would fix all the damage done on Monday by the event they held, but they never do. Haven't seen it yet, once. They are like the mining and extraction of minerals industries. Get in, get the money, get out, and leave a mess behind. Gu pacs, jelly bean packs, all kinds of trash floating around our trails after a race, every single time also. It's what I've seen 3 year in a row. YMMV...

    I've been at races run professionally at Mtn ski resorts, state parks, etc, where there were permits, management in place to manage the lands, budget to do so, fees to park, etc, and those races are kept clean, the damage minimal and repaired/fixed up, and they instruct the racers to tuck their trash in their pockets or leggings, don't litter. But the grass roots level races I've seen, no such luck or manners. These are just my experiences, they are NOT up for debate here on MTBR. Racing is fine, when the promoter leaves the place in the condition it was before practice and racing started on the flagged course by a maintenance team, after the race, not before.
    "i'll brazilian when YOU do boy, right around the ol' rusty star. Actually, whole fruit bowl. Get on it!" NicoleB

  14. #14
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    Interesting discussions on both sides of racing.

    On another note, did anyone notice it's supposed to rain this weekend? What do out of town'ers have to do to prepare? Tire choices?

  15. #15
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    Tour de France, Tour of Utah, USA Pro Cycling Challenge...all run on public roadways and are no doubt profit centers for someone.

  16. #16
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    Also

    There have been several routes in existance that connect lower Stuki springs to the upper bear claw poppy for at least a decade. No idea who "pioneered" the routes but unless he was out there building trail prior to the year 2000 I would not consider him the father of that route. Not to take anything away from anyone who is out building and maintaining trail. That connector trail has been much improved, but there is the same small locals only vs everyone arguement to be made with improving trail. Same thing with the Zen. It used to be small hardly known locals only route then it hit Utahmountainbiking.com and I never see less then 5 cars parked at the bottom.
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  17. #17
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    My dad and I have been riding here in St.George since 1997, so I know what I said and the accuracy of my claims. Prior to it, dubbed the Snake Pit by the conquistadores of Utahmountainbiking.com, being ridden regularly it was wash that one or two dirt bikes had gone up a few times years earlier, so I guess technically they deserve the credit, and I guess they then also deserve credit for Stucki, Bear Claw, etc. .....The trail became improved by being used more frequently, as it used to be that after every decent rain the wash sections would be, as you might guess, literally washed away, especially the side hill cuts towards the end. Which is one of the reasons we rode it, there was minimal impact that a rain or two couldn't clean up.
    I like bikes.

  18. #18
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    If you want to flame someone, go ahead, I was one who 20 years ago drove my jeep down the 3 fingers, down the wash, down bear claw. that was tight and challenging. I feel bad now. But glad its been closed off to other dumb jeepers, those are fantastic single track trails. And we appreciate those who have made them so fun!
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  19. #19
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    Right

    Quote Originally Posted by wasea04 View Post
    My dad and I have been riding here in St.George since 1997, so I know what I said and the accuracy of my claims. Prior to it, dubbed the Snake Pit by the conquistadores of Utahmountainbiking.com, being ridden regularly it was wash that one or two dirt bikes had gone up a few times years earlier, so I guess technically they deserve the credit, and I guess they then also deserve credit for Stucki, Bear Claw, etc. .....The trail became improved by being used more frequently, as it used to be that after every decent rain the wash sections would be, as you might guess, literally washed away, especially the side hill cuts towards the end. Which is one of the reasons we rode it, there was minimal impact that a rain or two couldn't clean up.
    I have ridden that wash (or a similar one) many many times as a way to avoid climbing garbage hill over the last 10 years It has been traveled by wheeled vehicles (Motor and Pedal) for years, and probably for years before I ever went there. Im not trying to be rude but you were not the first people to use that trail so you have no ownership of it. Its on public land and nobody knows how long it has been used. I bet people were riding along those washes on hoseback between st george and santa clara 100 years ago.
    Visiting St george/Hurricane? Stay at my vacation rental. Discounts for MTB's

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalfaraway View Post
    I have ridden that wash (or a similar one) many many times as a way to avoid climbing garbage hill over the last 10 years It has been traveled by wheeled vehicles (Motor and Pedal) for years, and probably for years before I ever went there. Im not trying to be rude but you were not the first people to use that trail so you have no ownership of it. Its on public land and nobody knows how long it has been used. I bet people were riding along those washes on hoseback between st george and santa clara 100 years ago.
    I didn't imply any ownership and even deferred pioneering the trail to the moto guys, so this all moot point.....I'm letting this go now.
    I like bikes.

  21. #21
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    [QUOTE=Pedalfaraway;9103973]I have ridden that wash (or a similar one) many many times as a way to avoid climbing garbage hill over the last 10 years It has been traveled by wheeled vehicles (Motor and Pedal) for years, and probably for years before I ever went there. Im not trying to be rude but you were not the first people to use that trail so you have no ownership of it. Its on public land and nobody knows how long it has been used. I bet people were riding along those washes on hoseback between st george and santa clara 100 years ago.[/QUOTE

    You are correct, every trail out there was either cattle, jeep or motorcycle made. They are now protected from those groups and we (mtb'rs) are the stewards so lets not eff it up.

    BTW, It's hilarious to me that Utahmountainbiking.com has decided to name that trail the "Snake Pit." It's always been Rattlesnake Wash to me and I have been riding it since it was a moto track back in 07-08'. The BLM is really "concerned" about that trail as well, they will not allow a race to go thru there.... thank goodness.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasea04 View Post
    I guess I'm schizoid, and I don't want to share. Hey Mark, I am looking into a Rip 9, yea or nay, and what's your beef(s) with the True Grit? Shelbster, relax man, I know your BFF's with the promoters and you feel compelled to defend them, but you're all overreacting. It simply occurred to me while reading about the True Grit that $ is being made on local trails, and it struck me oddly is all.
    What happened to your custom hardtail?

  23. #23
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    A little too racy....

    Quote Originally Posted by can't get right View Post
    What happened to your custom hardtail?
    I designed the stack height around a 180mm fork, so when I ran a 100mm fork, which I ended up preferring on a hardtail, the bike had too low of a stack height. My lower back begin hurting, and so I let it go to some kid in the NE who dh's on it with a dual crown no less. Young kids I've been wanting to get something more xc oriented for a while, and finally decided that a 29er was the way to go. I picked up an 09 RIP 9 a few days ago, it'll arrive in a week or so...
    I like bikes.

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