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  1. #1
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    R.I.P. Porcupine Singletrack. You had a good run!

    Just got done riding it, sad day. Almost completely sanitized, some of it is irreversible. Sorry if you were looking forward to the porcupine experience, it 's forever changed. Now its just another trail. I will look into it, but If anyone knows for sure who is responsible, please post that info here, If you find this unacceptable, please let it be known before they do any more "trail work"
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    Trailmix is responsible. While this particular event is unfortunate for those who love(d) the trail, let's not forget that Trail mix is responsible for a very large portion of the trails we all love in Moab , associated political negotiations to get them approved and countless man hours.

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    posted a link ...looks like their meetings are open to the public

    Trail Mix

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    Previous good work on trails notwithstanding, I cannot find any justification to turn the cornerstone of the Moab trail system into just another groomed bike path, which is what they are doing. This was not done to decrease erosion, this was solely to dumb down the trail to the lowest common denominator. This is not good for the mountain bike community, or the community of Moab. There are plenty of options for riders of all abilities. We don't need to be losing any of the advanced trails. If people are feeling the need to dig up rocks and smooth trail, there is plenty to be done on the jeep road portion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    posted a link ...looks like their meetings are open to the public

    Trail Mix
    Thanks for posting, also here

    https://www.facebook.com/MoabTrailMix?fref=ts
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    Are you referring to the last singletrack section above the river? What was removed?

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    I'm wondering if the grand goal is to tame down the whole enchilada so more people will buy shuttles? Since burro down became the whole enchilada there's been a progressive sanitation trend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by powderhound82 View Post
    Just got done riding it, sad day. Almost completely sanitized, some of it is irreversible. Sorry if you were looking forward to the porcupine experience, it 's forever changed. Now its just another trail. I will look into it, but If anyone knows for sure who is responsible, please post that info here, If you find this unacceptable, please let it be known before they do any more "trail work"
    Please elaborate...

    This is one of my favorite trails, I was out there a month ago and will be again in 2 weeks. What has been "sanitized" and where?

  9. #9
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    What??? That's just wrong. Go build some new trail and leave the good stuff alone.
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    In virtually all of the techy or "hard" sections of the singletrack that drops to the river, rocks have been completely removed or chipped away, most ledges have been turned into rock ramps. Any challenge has been eliminated. I don't know if it's a global conspiracy started by the shuttle companies, I would doubt it, they seem to be doing well. It's definitely a precedent that cannot be set. I'm not the only one, there were several folks, locals and visitors alike, that were not too happy with what they saw today. I will try to get pictures later this week.
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    Unfortunately, it is the natural progression. Trails get easier over time. Ride arounds happen. People think trail alterations make a good substitute for skills.
    I can see why porc gets hit hard for sanitation although I don't like it. I remember walking sections on most every ride. It was just how Moab worked. Riders used to walk and then didn't so much as they got better. It was part of what made Moab special.

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    A sad day indeed. Any trail that can be entirely ridden is not a good trail. The best trails all have features that are beyond one's levels and these are the trails that mountain bikers search for. It amazes me that Trailmix doesn't understand this, particularly when there are so many easier alternatives already in existence in Moab such as Gemini Bridges, Klondike Bluffs, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rippling over canyons View Post
    A sad day indeed. Any trail that can be entirely ridden is not a good trail. The best trails all have features that are beyond one's levels and these are the trails that mountain bikers search for. It amazes me that Trailmix doesn't understand this, particularly when there are so many easier alternatives already in existence in Moab such as Gemini Bridges, Klondike Bluffs, etc.
    This is why I suspect the plan is to make the Whole Enchilada easier. You don't need to spend 25 bucks to shuttle those easier rides. Now that there's a go around for the notch, and pork single track has been sanitized, there's no major obstacles a reasonably fit beginner/intermediate rider can't handle. You don't even need to be fit if you start somewhere bellow burrow.

    We need to remember that most riders that travel to Moab simply rent a bike and ride Slick Rock. With a little dumbing down, that same market can be tapped for shuttles. Of course locals and guys like me that live close buy are going to upset, but your average rider that travels to moab will likely love the new trail work.

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    "There are ample opportunities to volunteer! ... If you are interested in lending a hand in our efforts to keep the trails in good running condition (or riding, hiking or cross country skiing condition for that matter), please email Moab Trail Mix." Sometimes if you want something done right, you just have to do it yourself.

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    Sounds like you guys got screwed to make things so beginners can ride it - THAT BLOWS. Sounds like BS from Trail Mix to me, sems someone's after making more money like said. If there is nothing to work towards, what's the challenge?? This is one place I've longed to ride because of the challenges I've seen on it from photos and videos, something to really test yourself on, not something I'll long for now
    When I first started riding I went to what is now one of my most fav trails, I rode MAYBE 10% of it, but it gave me inspiration to ride more, improve my skills and be able to ride more. Now nearly 9 years later I can ride about 95% of it and still love the 5% I cannot quite ride yet, it gives me motivation to keep trying and progressing.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Well I would not go so far and say that beginners can ride it. Porcupine is still a mine field of danger despite the changes. A lot of people will think the trail has more flow but others will miss the obstacles. Mostly those knarly dangerous sections have been changed, but ther are still a ton of knarly dangerous sections to huck your meat.

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    Believe me, I am just as disappointed as everyone here, if not more. This trail is in my backyard and 2 miles of some of the best singletrack ever - or at least it was. That being said, it's really not fair to beat trailmix down for this and like Punta mentioned, it's not a beginner trail now. Trailmixes positive influence on the MTB community in Moab far, far outweighs any actions you may or may not agree with.

    Evidently, the trails evolution in terms of braiding has come under greater scrutiny. While I am 100% in agreement, that trails should be walked, not sanitized, in areas that are difficult the truth is, sometimes compromises have to be made. Especially on a trail as iconic as this one. I don't know the details, but there *is* a very, very large trail decision to be made in the La Sals soon. If the actions Trailmix has taken on PS makes the MTB community look that much better in the community it's possible we may reap the benifits in the form of a LOT more trail in the La Sals.

    And before rumors get out of hand, 'Porcupine Singletrack' is the last *2* miles of singletrack before reaching the colorado and not all of it was changed (just the good parts ). Also, there is just no way there is a conspiracy to make TWE easier so everyone can ride it. Trailmix doesn't stand to gain anything from more traffic on the enchilada and has no ties to Shuttle companies.

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    Really!? Sanitizing a trail that people come from all over the world to ride because of what it was. Hey Moab, are jeep tourist all you want coming to your town? A lot of us come to Moab to escape our locally sanitized trail, not to drink 3.2 beer.
    It's really sad that this is happening everywhere. What I don't get is why. All the marketing and videos (red bull rampage, where the trail ends) that showcases our sport are completely opposite of whats happening to trails. Bikes are becoming more and more capable yet trails are being dumbed down. who does this make sense too?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
    Really!? Sanitizing a trail that people come from all over the world to ride... who does this make sense too?
    I got a little bit of back story on this - SUWA has been concerned about Porc ST for years. It travels through a Wilderness Study Area so it has always been under great scrutiny. The fact that so many people ride the trail (or rather - walk or ride around obstacles) has caused massive erosion, multiple lines and a general beat-down of the area. My understanding is that pressure on the BLM had reached a point where the BLM gave Trail Mix the opportunity to fix it, or have it fixed FOR them. By "fixed" I mean create a trail that has one line that is rideable by "average" riders that the majority of people will stay on.

    It's a catch-22 and I bet Trail Mix is not too happy about it either, they're good folks and are doing great things. Hopefully you all got all the Porc ST skeletons out of your closets before this happened because the popularity of this trail has become its downfall in a very big way. I am glad we still get to ride there but I will miss the awesome moves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH View Post
    I got a little bit of back story on this - SUWA has been concerned about Porc ST for years. It travels through a Wilderness Study Area so it has always been under great scrutiny. The fact that so many people ride the trail (or rather - walk or ride around obstacles) has caused massive erosion, multiple lines and a general beat-down of the area. My understanding is that pressure on the BLM had reached a point where the BLM gave Trail Mix the opportunity to fix it, or have it fixed FOR them. By "fixed" I mean create a trail that has one line that is rideable by "average" riders that the majority of people will stay on.

    It's a catch-22 and I bet Trail Mix is not too happy about it either, they're good folks and are doing great things. Hopefully you all got all the Porc ST skeletons out of your closets before this happened because the popularity of this trail has become its downfall in a very big way. I am glad we still get to ride there but I will miss the awesome moves.
    Thanks for clarifying. I guess we are lucky it wasn't shut down all together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH View Post
    I got a little bit of back story on this - SUWA has been concerned about Porc ST for years. It travels through a Wilderness Study Area so it has always been under great scrutiny. The fact that so many people ride the trail (or rather - walk or ride around obstacles) has caused massive erosion, multiple lines and a general beat-down of the area. My understanding is that pressure on the BLM had reached a point where the BLM gave Trail Mix the opportunity to fix it, or have it fixed FOR them. By "fixed" I mean create a trail that has one line that is rideable by "average" riders that the majority of people will stay on.

    It's a catch-22 and I bet Trail Mix is not too happy about it either, they're good folks and are doing great things. Hopefully you all got all the Porc ST skeletons out of your closets before this happened because the popularity of this trail has become its downfall in a very big way. I am glad we still get to ride there but I will miss the awesome moves.
    At the risk of beings totally NOT PC, there is a reason why you will see "SUWA SUCKS" stickers around Moab.

  22. #22
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    I haven't been on the PR singletrack in at least 10 years, so I don't remember that much about it, other than walking one really steep right-hand switchback.

    Anyway. Off topic:

    Red Bull type events are a dead end for mountain biking. Very cool to watch, but not sustainable on public lands. Bikes becoming more capable may actually cause us serious problems in the near future, because now any noob can take a fairly inexpensive 6 inch travel trail bike and go *very* fast on pretty techy stuff - then run off the trail and crush some undisturbed cryptobiotic soil or run over a hiker. 20 years ago that same rider would have crashed their rigid canti-brake bike with 1.9 knobbies in the first 10 feet if they had attempted anything difficult.

    -Walt

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
    Really!? Sanitizing a trail that people come from all over the world to ride because of what it was. Hey Moab, are jeep tourist all you want coming to your town? A lot of us come to Moab to escape our locally sanitized trail, not to drink 3.2 beer.
    It's really sad that this is happening everywhere. What I don't get is why. All the marketing and videos (red bull rampage, where the trail ends) that showcases our sport are completely opposite of whats happening to trails. Bikes are becoming more and more capable yet trails are being dumbed down. who does this make sense too?
    This is somewhat of a let down - I've been hearing the hype about Porcupine for a few years from buddies and others that have ridden it. Going there for the first time in a couple weeks. I'll be obviously naive to the changes having never ridden it before, but knowing that it's been dumbed down kinda deflates the air out of my tires.

    Just upgraded the bike too for exactly the type of terrain Porcupine *was* known for... *sigh*

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    Keep in mind that trailmix has also been maintaining this section of trail for 10+/- ? years. They have been the ones who have made it from a road to a singletrack in certain sections. They have been a part of making it such a fun 'single' track to begin with... they have closed many braids before... usually the motos screw any work up anyway..

    I never condone or like dumbing down of trails... but sometimes things need to be done, I am nearly certain that this is still a very fun and challenging section of trail...

    its not like its closed.

  25. #25
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    As someone who is pretty obsessed with technical trail riding, it's always a bummer to hear about trail sanitation but I can't slam TrailMix for this. Porc has changed plenty over the last decade, some for the better, some for the worse. Last year I was pretty surprised how many braids had formed around obstacles on the way down. Fact of the matter is, it's a rite of passage trail for anyone that goes to Moab to ride bikes. I've seen enough tourist families out there in jeans dragging along kids on 20 inch wheeled bikes that it's inevitable that the trail is going to be dumbed down along the way. Quite frankly, Porc is a great ride for the variety it offers and the views, but it's never a trail I would go to specifically for the tech factor. If it wasn't for the exposure it's pretty much a moderate difficulty level Moab trail. Sure there are some great ledges and a couple really difficult tech moves along the way but that was never the reason I wanted to go ride that trail. For crazy tech riding there are still Jackson's and Portal, both far more technically demanding and less used by the masses. Hopefully some singletrack accross the top of Porc in place of some of the doubletrack is next in line, I could definitely do without some of the shark fin, stutter bump, speed killer, doubletrack sections across the top.
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    Especially on a trail as iconic as this one

    All the more reason to not dumb it down. Perhaps a better solution would have been to construct a go-around for the less skilled. In any case, I hate to see it. The pucker factor was one of the best parts of riding Porc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warmonkey View Post
    Perhaps a better solution would have been to construct a go-around for the less skilled.
    Now-a-days, I think that go-arounds may need to be built during initial trail construction because people are going to create them over time regardless. The sad part is that people create alternative lines for features that aren't even that difficult.

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    Hopefully I will see the aftermath this weekend - but frankly I am not worried. If you are crazy technical rider you will find terrain to match in Moab - no matter how sanitized is the PR. I like flow not less than hard obstacles - so I might like it even better. As for the fact that statement "I rode the PR" does not mean now as much as 5 years ago - so what? As mentioned above bikes are getting better too. The only real problem I see is overcrowding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warmonkey View Post
    Especially on a trail as iconic as this one

    Perhaps a better solution would have been to construct a go-around for the less skilled.
    If you read the whole thread, you'd know it's the go arounds that are the problem. In order to preserve PST for ANY riding, it needs to be single and single only.

  30. #30
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    Thanks to Jwind and JMH for providing some perspective and background. I'd rather have flowy PST than no PST. I live 700 miles away, so generally I only get to ride it once or twice a year. It's nice to have something to test myself on each time to gauge improvement, but as others have already mentioned, that still amounts to just a handful of discrete challenges. Sure, I'd love for those to stay static so I can see how much I suck each year, but those aren't the only challenges in Moab. Overall, I think Porcupine experience mostly boils down to your willingness to accept the maxim that 'speed is your friend,' especially on the doubletrack.

    I'm slightly embarrassed to mention that I rode Porc 2x earlier this month (on the 2nd and the 6th) and didn't notice much difference. The major thing I noticed was that the short climb to the drop-in to the last wash had been worked on- I noticed blazing and a rock ramp to put you onto the big flat rock. I also slid sideways both times right beyond that as I rolled down the opposite face on the other side of the boulder; that rock seemed more off-camber than I remember, but that could easily be faulty memory. Sometimes I think I'm doing well to remember some of the awkward turns on my favorite home trails. I know I didn't complain that my vacation had been ruined, and I'm a Simpsons geek. I'll take any chance I get to say: "You've RUINED our vacation!"

    Last edited by evasive; 04-15-2013 at 03:23 PM. Reason: added video

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    Quite a bit of the "work" that has been done is on sections where there is no go-around, or even a possibility, just wholesale dumbing down.
    Last edited by powderhound82; 04-15-2013 at 02:42 PM.
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    I have no problem with this and will continue to ride the trail a handful of times each year when I travel to Moab. I'll probably enjoy riding it more with my wife because she won't feel so pinned for the bottom 2 miles.

    As the scope and quality of trails available for mtb in Moab continues to grow, some compromises are inevitable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    This is somewhat of a let down - I've been hearing the hype about Porcupine for a few years from buddies and others that have ridden it. Going there for the first time in a couple weeks. I'll be obviously naive to the changes having never ridden it before, but knowing that it's been dumbed down kinda deflates the air out of my tires.

    Just upgraded the bike too for exactly the type of terrain Porcupine *was* known for... *sigh*
    I just got back and after 3 years of not riding Porcupine (so not as familiar as some) I saw 3 obvious ramps put in to make those spots easier. Not sure it destroys the experience, but if you want to get pushed, go up and do Rockstacker!

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    I rode it last week from LPS down. Porcupine's a great trail, but except for the one right hand turn down into the last gully and the ledge climb on the other side, it's not the height of difficulty in Moab anyway. I saw three obvious spots where ramps had been built. Maybe there are more, I hadn't ridden it in a while, but it didn't destroy the experience for me. I recommend Rockstacker if you need some inspiration.

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    Evasive - I think the work was done after you left, like RECENTLY. The wash is probably going to stay tough, anything they did short of blasting an exit ramp would likely just wash away. That's still the toughest obstacle out there anyway - a real "a-spicy-a-meatball!"

    But I look forward to seeing the revisions... I like fast just as much as I like tech.

    JMH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I haven't been on the PR singletrack in at least 10 years, so I don't remember that much about it, other than walking one really steep right-hand switchback.

    Anyway. Off topic:

    Red Bull type events are a dead end for mountain biking. Very cool to watch, but not sustainable on public lands. Bikes becoming more capable may actually cause us serious problems in the near future, because now any noob can take a fairly inexpensive 6 inch travel trail bike and go *very* fast on pretty techy stuff - then run off the trail and crush some undisturbed cryptobiotic soil or run over a hiker. 20 years ago that same rider would have crashed their rigid canti-brake bike with 1.9 knobbies in the first 10 feet if they had attempted anything difficult.

    -Walt
    This mindset was BS when MTB Action used this absurd logic in an editorial and it's just a stupid now. It's never the wands fault....the blame falls on the magician.
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    And all the riders coming to Moab for the first time will love Porc as it is now. In fact, most of the riders who have been on Porc in the past will love it. Hey, it's Porcupine Rim! All your hand wringing here about "sanitizing" won't change the fact that 99% of the riders from now on are going to love riding it.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

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    I was just in Moab, and didn't ride Porc, but last was in town 5 years ago. I was astonished at how much more crowded it seemed now, and at the amount of shuttle vans there were. If that is any indication of the level of use that trail is seeing, it has got to be getting HAMMERED on a daily basis. I do believe anywhere else the trail would have been destroyed by overuse long ago. Only the rocky character of the Moab terrain is saving it. The issues involved with that level of use are known only to the local trail groups.

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    Wasn't that true before? Trails do not need to be easy or "safe", riders need to be educated. That said, I can see porc in the same boat as sand flats was. Meaning sacrifice it to the mainstream and hope that there isn't need for more.

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    It seems to be human nature that this occurs, I dislike riding Porc most of the time because I spend half the ride leap frogging riders on rental bikes with Dasani water bottles in one hand and shod in open toe Tevas. People hear of the magnificent Porcupine Rim and want to ride it, necessary skills or preparations notwithstanding.
    I like bikes.

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    maybe they could've kept the technical features and put logs and boulders on the sides to keep people from going around??

    im sure the trail will still be a hoot, plenty of other riding options to get your tech on!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    maybe they could've kept the technical features and put logs and boulders on the sides to keep people from going around??
    Logs and boulders will be removed just as fast as they are put up.

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    I see, so any boulder or rock to make the trail easier is permanent and cannot be removed, but a rock or boulder preventing a ride around will be removed immediately

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH View Post
    I got a little bit of back story on this - SUWA has been concerned about Porc ST for years. It travels through a Wilderness Study Area so it has always been under great scrutiny. The fact that so many people ride the trail (or rather - walk or ride around obstacles) has caused massive erosion, multiple lines and a general beat-down of the area. My understanding is that pressure on the BLM had reached a point where the BLM gave Trail Mix the opportunity to fix it, or have it fixed FOR them. By "fixed" I mean create a trail that has one line that is rideable by "average" riders that the majority of people will stay on.

    It's a catch-22 and I bet Trail Mix is not too happy about it either, they're good folks and are doing great things. Hopefully you all got all the Porc ST skeletons out of your closets before this happened because the popularity of this trail has become its downfall in a very big way. I am glad we still get to ride there but I will miss the awesome moves.
    Maybe everyone should take off their tin foil hats and read this post, then think about the challenges a group like Trail Mix faces. Sorry, but if you're going to have a mountain bike destination you need to keep your trails in good condition or face losing them. I'm not happy about sanitation, but I'd rather have an easier trail than no trail. I'll just have to keep the memories of blindly rolling into some of those sections at mach and hoping I came out clean on the other side.

    More people = more novice riders who probably shouldn't be on those trails = more users walking around or riding around things = more trail damage. And more trail damage = trail closures.

    Just be happy they haven't turned it into a dirt sidewalk like how nearly everything in northern Utah has ended up. Well, at least not yet.
    Don't you hate it when a sentence doesn't end the way you think it octopus?

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    Great point Jwind. I am a big fan of Moab and even bigger fan of trailcrews around the world. Sometimes decisions have to be made to preserve the greater future of our trails.

    We have to deal with access and bureaucracy as well in our neck of the wood.

    A great example of trail building without taming down the trail is the newly Captain Ahab that I just rode on my trip last week. I bet it wouldn't have been possible without compromise and discussion with proper authorities.

    Before someone goes out and complain, let's remember that is not your acreage to do whatever you want with it but rather a privilege to be able to ride there.

    Thanks to the trailcrews in Moab/Fruita/St-George and Hurricane. My experience as well as my family have always been great. Fantastic work!

    2 miles of reworking and yes maybe tamed down is nothing if you have the ability to gain trusts from the authorities and gain 100 of miles.

    Just be grateful guys to have had the privilege to ride the trail in it's original shape.

    Sylvain

  46. #46
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    .........
    I like bikes.

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    ^ this guy is correct.
    I like bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wasea04 View Post
    .........
    Quote Originally Posted by wasea04 View Post
    ^ this guy is correct.
    You're saying that you're right? Well, can't argue with confidence!
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    It was a mistype,
    I like bikes.

  50. #50
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    Let's face it - that section to the river has been, and always will be, evolving. When I first started riding Porc Rim in the mid-90's that singletrack was quite a bit *less* gnarly than it was when I rode it the last few years. It has gradually over time gotten more and more eroded - the steps just continued to get bigger year after year.

    I'll have to have a look-see for myself in a couple weeks as to how the maintenance has changed things. Stay tuned...

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    I thought Jacksons off of Amasa back was a good ride. Techy if you wanted some of it, room to walk if you needed to also (which I did, two or 3 times) but that last section where I practically slid/ fell into the CO river at high water mark needs a reroute. Otherwise, if I liked Jackson, how will I feel about Porc Rim? Moab is such an amazing place to ride. I don't want to see it dumbed down, but I don't want to eat sh*t either and end up in the hospital either, far from home. PR sounds a bit intimidating... yet Jacksons was just a hoot with a few spots with the oh sh*t factor on my WFO.

    Love the place, Moab, have 2 trips there, and they've been great. Take care of 'er...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyonadyke View Post
    I thought Jacksons off of Amasa back was a good ride. Techy if you wanted some of it, room to walk if you needed to also (which I did, two or 3 times) but that last section where I practically slid/ fell into the CO river at high water mark needs a reroute. Otherwise, if I liked Jackson, how will I feel about Porc Rim? Moab is such an amazing place to ride. I don't want to see it dumbed down, but I don't want to eat sh*t either and end up in the hospital either, far from home. PR sounds a bit intimidating... yet Jacksons was just a hoot with a few spots with the oh sh*t factor on my WFO.

    Love the place, Moab, have 2 trips there, and they've been great. Take care of 'er...
    If you can handle Jacksons, Porc will be no problem for you. The exposure isn't as bad as Jacksons and there really isn't anything on the downhill as technically challenging as that corkscrew section on Jacksons. Porc is longer and much rougher of a ride. They're different animals really; lots of fun to be had.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyonadyke View Post
    but that last section where I practically slid/ fell into the CO river at high water mark needs a reroute.

    Love the place, Moab, have 2 trips there, and they've been great. Take care of 'er...
    No it doesn't, that part is fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by YRG View Post
    No it doesn't, that part is fun
    Agreed. Haven't cleaned it yet, don't freaking touch it.
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  55. #55
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    I rode it last year and last week. It was getting more sanitized as the days progressed. It was all below the Techy short face down to the BB smasher short 4' rock slab uphill. Hopefully they do not creep any further up the trail. This section is 2% of the trail that we rode from UPS. I would imagine, if you did TWE that the lower section being sanitized would be less than 1% of your ride. Granted, it did have some great features to overcome, there is still plenty of fun stuff along the trail up to that section. We rode for 6 days, starting at 8:00 a.m. and finishing at 7:00 p.m. everyday. We rode everything out there, except a few trails and PRT was still my favorite trail. We'd do it twice or 3 times some days.

    There are several other trails with much more tech than that trail, for those who go searching for that sort of thing.

    Just my visitor's .02

    p.s. Moab is a wonderful town and the Trailmix or whoever, has done a spectacular job out there.....and don't go thinking the new trail, Capt. Ahab, is a solely a DH trail like we did. :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyonadyke View Post
    I thought Jacksons off of Amasa back was a good ride. Techy if you wanted some of it, room to walk if you needed to also (which I did, two or 3 times) but that last section where I practically slid/ fell into the CO river at high water mark needs a reroute. Otherwise, if I liked Jackson, how will I feel about Porc Rim? Moab is such an amazing place to ride. I don't want to see it dumbed down, but I don't want to eat sh*t either and end up in the hospital either, far from home. PR sounds a bit intimidating... yet Jacksons was just a hoot with a few spots with the oh sh*t factor on my WFO.

    Love the place, Moab, have 2 trips there, and they've been great. Take care of 'er...
    Please see that your attitude is a big reason Pork has been sanitized.Just as you feel a reroute is needed because you can't ride a section confidently, or just feel it's sketchy, so do all the riders that created the braided erosion on pork. You stated you don't want to see Pork dumbed down, please don't recommend Jackson's be dumbed down with a reroute that would remove much of the unique character that is jackson's.

    How many areas have a switchback like on Jackson's? This is what gives a trial unique character. Value it, or "take care of 'er" as you say. Natural tech can't be built.

  57. #57
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    Interesting thread......love Moab, not a local but have spent a lot of time there over the last 7 years and looking forward to 8 days next month

    We deal with the sanitation up on the front range pretty frequently. At first it bothered me but I have found our trails revert back to their rough form quickly. There are some go arounds that have become established, but those aren't from the trail maintenance.

    Overall, for me it is hard to complain about trail maintenance on public lands, we are really fortunate to have these amazing trails. And as others have stated trail mix is building high quality trails for varying skill levels at a rapid rate. Tough to dog them over a small section of trail.

    I ride a lot of different stuff out there besides porc I doubt it will make a huge difference for me, but I understand why people have issue with it. Reality is the traffic on the trail has increased significantly over the past couple years.

    If you have cash anyone can rent a bike and get a shuttle up there into a big ride in rough country that really isn't for novice riders. That trail destroys people.....I have seen plenty of injured people up there. Not sure if that could be a factor or not.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    If you read the whole thread, you'd know it's the go arounds that are the problem. In order to preserve PST for ANY riding, it needs to be single and single only.
    This^. When I first rode Porcupine in the late 80s it was two feet wide and relatively easy with the exception of two spots. Even the switchback section where it turns into the drainage toward the end was easy. That's fully rigid on 1.9" tires or whatever Spec Ground Control tire were. It got hard because of erosion, plain and simple. And with the chunky tech, comes the braiding.

    Seems like there's plenty of places in Moab to get your chunk on if that's what your after.

  59. #59
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    Being concerned with injury is not a viable reason to dumb down or sanitize a trail. All the main trails in Moab and Fruita are marked according to their difficulty level. If you choose to ride a trail, you accept the risk of the trail you ride.

    It is not the trail builder's or trail group's responsibility to make the trail less risky so you can ride it, it is each rider's responsibility to ride only within their skill limits and decide whether or not a trail is rideable according to their own abilities.

    If you ride a trail and encounter a feature that is above your skill level, it is not that hard to get off the bike and walk it and then get back on the bike once the trail is suitable for your ability. I, like pretty much most folks here, do not want to get hurt far away from home and when I ride trails, I take that into account and choose what trails I ride based on the risk I am willing to take.
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  60. #60
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    I def agree that, as a rule, sanitizing trails is a bad deal. Ideally people would walk a section that intimidates them, I do it often. Use the walk to check it out real close and make a plan for next time...skill evolution, progress, etc.

    But if you are delivering the rental bike crowd to the TH by the hundreds every day you have to expect some other attitudes. That will lead to b-lines and braids. Then SUWA cares, then the BLM does something to just shut them up. Better a trail group do the work than the BLM for sure.

    Like others have said, overall it is a very small minority of the mileage. I have not ridden it since the "work" but last Fall I rode TWE on a Saturday ( I had always ridden it mid-week or off-season on purpose) and gotta say it was kind of a zoo. The worst part was the ST towards the bottom, esp. the turn and drop down the the river. Coudn't even attempt any sections with any difficulty because the rental bike crowd was piled up, waiting to walk or furtively attemp/brake/crash each move.

    Looking back I'm not surprised some flow was built in. It's still on my list in two weeks, just not on Sat./Sun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by castnblastut View Post
    I def agree that, as a rule, sanitizing trails is a bad deal. Ideally people would walk a section that intimidates them, I do it often. Use the walk to check it out real close and make a plan for next time...skill evolution, progress, etc.

    But if you are delivering the rental bike crowd to the TH by the hundreds every day you have to expect some other attitudes. That will lead to b-lines and braids. Then SUWA cares, then the BLM does something to just shut them up. Better a trail group do the work than the BLM for sure.

    Like others have said, overall it is a very small minority of the mileage. I have not ridden it since the "work" but last Fall I rode TWE on a Saturday ( I had always ridden it mid-week or off-season on purpose) and gotta say it was kind of a zoo. The worst part was the ST towards the bottom, esp. the turn and drop down the the river. Coudn't even attempt any sections with any difficulty because the rental bike crowd was piled up, waiting to walk or furtively attemp/brake/crash each move.

    Looking back I'm not surprised some flow was built in. It's still on my list in two weeks, just not on Sat./Sun.
    Don't just hammer on the rental bike folks....I see PLENTY of folks on their own equipment walking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    Being concerned with injury is not a viable reason to dumb down or sanitize a trail. All the main trails in Moab and Fruita are marked according to their difficulty level. If you choose to ride a trail, you accept the risk of the trail you ride.

    It is not the trail builder's or trail group's responsibility to make the trail less risky so you can ride it, it is each rider's responsibility to ride only within their skill limits and decide whether or not a trail is rideable according to their own abilities.

    If you ride a trail and encounter a feature that is above your skill level, it is not that hard to get off the bike and walk it and then get back on the bike once the trail is suitable for your ability. I, like pretty much most folks here, do not want to get hurt far away from home and when I ride trails, I take that into account and choose what trails I ride based on the risk I am willing to take.
    Kudos to you. Unfortunately we have raised a generation (or two) of pu$$y's in the USA. No one is willing to accept reasonability for their own actions. Oh...McDonalds made me fat, violent video games made my kid go on a shooting spree, that trail broke my leg..etc...etc...etc.. Utah is one of the last "Darwin Rules" states. That's why my wife and I love living here. Sadly we're headed towards the CA and NY nanny state model it seems.
    Last edited by STT GUY; 04-21-2013 at 08:51 PM.
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  63. #63
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    To Mountain Bikers,

    Messages from Trail Mix and the BLM

    Message from Trail Mix: The Trail Mix work crew recently completed maintenance work on the singletrack portion of the Porcupine Rim Trail per request by the BLM. Trails widen over time, ruts develop, jumps and by-pass routes are created. The Trail Mix crew narrowed the trail in many areas, eliminating many by-pass routes, while taking care to retain 98% of the dificullt-expert lines. In some cases, routes were created, or improved, to allow a line for less experienced riders. We feel the basic character of the trail has not been changed. Intermediate skill level riders will still have to walk many portions of the trail. This is still an expert level trail which will challenge all riders.

    Sandy Freethey - Trail Mix Chair

    Message from Katie Stevens/ BLM: I want to confirm for you that the BLM asked Trail Mix to perform maintenance on the Porcupine Rim trail. A little history will help.


    The Porcupine Rim Trail is an old cattle trail; it was never designed for bicycle use. When the Wilderness Study Area was formulated, it included the cattle-turned bike trail within the WSA. While it is important to keep ALL singletrack narrow, it is particularly important within the WSA. The "authorization" of the trail is for an 18 inch wide trail -- not for a swath where riders go whichever way they like. If the trail is not kept to a narrow width, it could be closed for violating the management policy that requires the BLM to manage WSAs as unimpaired until Congress decides their designation. Trail Mix's maintenance of Porcupine Rim was an effort to assist riders in staying on the singletrack trailbed.

    In addition to the WSA issue, the BLM sees singletrack bike trails as a resource. This means that we maintain trails to keep them to singletrack width. All trails (and roads for that matter) require maintenance to keep them in their original footprint. The Porcupine Rim trail has not had any serious maintenance in many years prior to last week.

    I invite you to call me and talk about this issue if you like,

    Katie Stevens
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    Moab Field Office

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    Thank you Sandy and Katie. I have been visiting Moab for the past 13 years, from Alberta, Canada. We love it here.

    As I have mentioned on a previous post, sometimes you have to see the bigger picture.

    It happens here too in Banff national park. You have to give in a little to gain immensely.

    Thanks for your great work.

    I will still ride Porcupine on my visit, even when I turn 70.

    Cheers

    Sylvain

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    Not intended as a shot @ the rental folks, one of those you've seen walking may have been me, have my good days and bad like everyone else for sure. Just meant that it takes time to learn skills AND trail manners.

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    Thanks for the clarification Sandy, Katie and others. I'm on board with Trail Mixes actions based on this clarification. I'll still miss some of the tougher moves they may have dumbed down but like JMH said, I like fast and flowy as much as techy. There's other places in Moab where I can get my tech fix.

    And if that's what helps keep it open, I'm all in. Great trail.
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    That's it ... I'm gonna have to drive down and see for myself if my favorite trail has been ruined or not!

    Seriously, I'm grateful for the people who actually work to maintain the trails I love to ride. I expect that for the great majority of us, we'll still enjoy the heck out of this trail every chance we get.

    And I'm in agreement with others who have indicated that it is the number of trail users, not the trail maintainers, that is the threat and problem with this trail. I honestly wonder if they are going to end up with a permit or lottery system capping the number of daily users, similar to what they have implemented with other incredibly popular areas here in Utah and elsewhere (ie, Subway and Virgin Narrows in Zion NP). I wonder how long the trail can handle hundreds of riders each day.
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  68. #68
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    As has been mentioned - a lot of you folks have ridden a trail that was *not* the same as it was a long time ago. It *was* easier. Your experiences on the trail are *yours* - there were probably people over the years that have said "Geez - that Porcupine Rim trail has gotten really rough and bad. It's too bad nobody is there maintaining it so it doesn't get worse."

    Just because it was like <whatever> when you first rode it doesn't mean that it will forever be what that was. Trails are not static features.

  69. #69
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    I'm gonna have to call you out on this one - would you prefer all those rental bike riders (who are probably having the time of their lives) stay in front of the TV and play video games? We all sucked at one point, we all did dumb stuff on bikes that we had to laugh about later. We all walked around obstacles we shouldn't have or broke other trail etiquette rules.

    If you want the trail to yourself and free of "pu$$ies" you're going to have to pick something a little less famous and/or more remote. Mountain biking (especially in Moab) is more popular than ever and iconic trails (especially ones that can easily be shuttled) are going to be crowded and have to be heavily managed. C'est la vie.

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    If you want to ride the Whole Enchilada or Porcupine Rim, without crowds, it is easy, start your journey after lunch or on a week day. It is generally Saturday morning on spring weekends that things get crowded. Any other time you ride, you will find yourself so alone you will piss yourself if you are from one of those "I am a liberal, therefore I am a pu$$y states."

    The reality is that the trail work makes porcupine a better trail. In Moab, the jeep roads and trails get more difficult after every rain storm. Most jeep trails are getting more difficult. I have to say that a lot of the sections of challenge on Porcupine Rim were rather ghetto and torn up, which made the experience less fun. Sure it made it fun to see if you can clear it with out getting killed, but it looked rather messy and torn up, sort of a $hit show in some respects. There is nothing static in the desert, the erosion and damage to the trail will continue over time. But in the interim, perhaps there will be less injuries. On a busy day on Porcupine, I regularly pass the Sheriff's Office and Search and Rescue hiking into the trail to rescue one of the many victims. Even if you are highly experienced, you can eat $hit very easily. It sucks for all riders when your bike trip becomes an assist the severely injured every 100 yards.

    The flow will be better now for most people. Most people like flow, so perhaps those that are sad their favorite obstacle is gone can find peace that they can ride even faster. If their is no flow, what is the point?

    I think that there are more drops and jumps on Porcupine Rim than ever before and so it is getting more fun in that respect. I think that Trail Mix cleaned up a rather big mess making the trail better. Rest in Peace porcupine rim is a bit dramatic to say the least so do not be alarmed. On your next trip you will be rather surprised at how little you have to walk your bike now and how the trail now seems high quality, if only the jeep road could have the same work done.

    And as far as Trail Mix goes, those folks are building and improving hundreds of miles of trails, new and old for all of you bastages that are complaining that a few rocks were moved out of the way, so stay cool . . . it is great that the BLM and Trail Mix are working together to make more trails for everyone.

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    Great comment! A balance act...

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    Where are all the pics guys?
    I'll be heading to Moab in a week and am kinda on the fence for the whole enchilada now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hessy View Post
    Where are all the pics guys?
    I'll be heading to Moab in a week and am kinda on the fence for the whole enchilada now.
    Seriously? Cleaning up trail damage on, at max, 3 miles of trail ruins your 26 mile ride? HTFU and ride the damn trail.
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    surely, everybody knows most of Burro Pass down to the lake is under snow. don't they?
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  75. #75
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    The reports of the death of Porc Singletrack have been GREATLY exaggerated. It's still fun AND tech.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zebrahum View Post
    Seriously? Cleaning up trail damage on, at max, 3 miles of trail ruins your 26 mile ride? HTFU and ride the damn trail.
    Honestly, I just want to see some damn pictures. I've ridden it for the past 3 years and can't quite imagine the rosy picture everyone is painting.
    I'm sure with all the angry fist shaking around here someone snapped a cellphone pic, something similar to this:
    China Camp Trail Sanitation

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hessy View Post
    Honestly, I just want to see some damn pictures. I've ridden it for the past 3 years and can't quite imagine the rosy picture everyone is painting.
    I'm sure with all the angry fist shaking around here someone snapped a cellphone pic, something similar to this:
    China Camp Trail Sanitation
    Then you're going to have to take some pictures. Who wants to stop on one of the most fun sections of trail in Moab to take pictures of trail maintenance anyway?

    Per JMH in another thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    A quick note to all those who are terrified that they will absolutely slay the singletrack that Trail Mix worked on - You Won't. It's still challenging, in fact it looks as though they avoided the test pieces all together in favor of working on braided areas. I did notice two or three spots that were easier to ride but they were secondary features that weren't too difficult to begin with. Some of the sandy, grunty little ups have been reinforced to stop erosion. Noticable, but again, not the hardest spots to clean in the first place. The wash is still the wash, I couldn't detect any changes. Ride it tomorrow and be just as proud as if you rode it last year, it's still a neat trick.

    In all, I would rate the work as A: Well Done (when I even noticed it) and B: Definitely keeps the rugged spirit and technical challenge of the trail intact.
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hessy View Post
    Where are all the pics guys?
    I'll be heading to Moab in a week and am kinda on the fence for the whole enchilada now.
    Actually, we are only winning about 30ft of trail here and 20ft of trail there. It would take a lot to make downgrade Burro down to even a great ride. The title of the thread would make for great fox news headlines.

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    We'll this news just totally killed my ego boost. My wife and I rode Porc (last time was 2 years ago) on March 30th and we're like, whoa this trail feels way more tame than last time. We must have gotten way better in the past two years (which we have to a degree). I guess it wasn't our skills alone...

    Sad to see that the dumbing down of trails is the direction that things are heading on many public lands. Same issue here in the NW with the Syncline area near Hood River. Two years ago, the USFS went through the process of legalizing what were a mix of unsanctioned hiking and biking routes with some old road beds thrown in. Now, in the second year of the plan, they rerouted a significant portion of one of the best trails in the area (the most technical bits are still there, but a lot is gone). I guess the motto going forward is to enjoy things while they last, because nothing lasts forever.

  80. #80
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    R.I.P. Porcupine Singletrack. You had a good run!

    I just got back from Moab (my first time there) - and I gotta say, it's plenty challenging. I hike-a-biked a few times and can't say I'm afraid to admit that. I don't know what it used it be like, but it still was an awesome ride. It's not like it's been turned into a paved bike path. Unless you are super hardcore, I doubt anyone will be that disappointed.

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    When u get off the fence u will land in snow.

  82. #82
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    I've only ridden porc 3 times spaced out over the last 17 years. First time was in 96 on a carbon hardtail xc bike w/ 63mm fork, second was in '01 on a ti hardtail with 80mm fork, and 3rd time was last week on a carbon 29er hardtail with 100mm fork.

    I don't remember much if any chnage between 96 and 01. Biggest difference I noticed last week was some of the jeep road sections seeming more like singletrack, and that the singletrack was wider and braided. Some of the braided lines being route around tech obstacles with others being more challenging routes (most seemed like drops to flat). Can't say I was fond of either, as I'm more of a make the most of the trail that's there type of guy than a change the trail to suit your needs type.

    I was able to clean the entire lower section of signletrack (save 1 minor dab after a pedal strike) which I hadn't quite managed in the 2 previous attempts. I have to attribute that somewhat to the trail being easier now since I don't know that my skills are better at 37 than they were when I first rode it when I was 20.

    I hate needless trail sanitization about as much as I hate people creating braided "cheater lines" around the tech bits, but I have to say that given the choice between a little bit of sanitization to prevent erosion vs. a completely closed trail, the decision isn't hard.

    Yet that section is still super fun, and I liked it better than any other segement between Koko and the bottom. The rest of my group agreed, with about 60/40 split between those that had never ridden it before and those who had.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    I was able to clean the entire lower section of signletrack (save 1 minor dab after a pedal strike) which I hadn't quite managed in the 2 previous attempts.
    Did you ride out of the wash? Pics or it didn't happen.

  84. #84
    YRG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    Did you ride out of the wash? Pics or it didn't happen.
    Seems like that part doesn't get counted much. Not sure why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YRG View Post
    Seems like that part doesn't get counted much. Not sure why.
    That's b/c NO ONE could possibly RIDE it!

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    That's b/c NO ONE could possibly RIDE it!
    Paging Hans Rey, Hans Rey to Porcupine singletrack.
    Don't you hate it when a sentence doesn't end the way you think it octopus?

  87. #87
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    Two of my friends ride it. I wish I were one of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YRG View Post
    Two of my friends ride it. I wish I were one of them.
    My fiance is terrible at taking pictures in a way that is almost impressive. Her ability to just miss or jump the gun is really quite admirable. We have a very good collection of these types of photos. You would think she would get luck occasionally.

    The wash.
    R.I.P. Porcupine Singletrack. You had a good run!-dsc01417.jpg
    Rolling the diving board b/c hucking it hurts. Very cool light tho.
    R.I.P. Porcupine Singletrack. You had a good run!-dsc01412.jpg

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    Haha. Thanks for keeping me honest. I think I remember the section you are talking about. The only video I could find of it was at the very end of this one:

    Porcupine Rim Singletrack, the last section of the "Whole Enchilada", Moab, Utah, 9/24/2011. - YouTube

    You can see it edited out. I must have edited out of my memory banks as well, though I do rememember riding bit above the ledge just like the guy in the vid does, minus the yelling at everyone to get out of my way bit.

    I have been known to trials hop up stuff on the trail, but I aint no Hans Rey. Strangest thing is I can remember unsuccessfully trying to trials hop up it (unsuccessfully) the my first trip down porc in '96, but can't remember whether I tried it last Friday.

    I think I would have remembered hoppning up that ledge if I had succeeded. I probably just got off stepped up the vertical ledge and clipped back in.

    Oh well....it was a great memory until you guys ruined it....

  90. #90
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    Looks like my timer pics, Jwind. Just missed it. Good job cleaning it though.

    Come on JMH. I know you have a picture of you cleaning the step up out of the wash. It really is a tough move and one I don't even attempt just because the bottom of that wash is a ways down and it would be a bad way to end a biking vacation. Kudos to those who've cleaned it.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

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    Me neither. If it weren't at an angle I'd have given it a shot by now, but it's easy to imagine myself sliding off to the side and then WAY off to the side.

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    Oh boy, you had to post a pic! Now I'm not so sure I didnt make that bit. I know pictures make everything look 10x easier, but even so, that doesn't look like something I wouldn't have attempted, and I know for certain that there was only one spot on the lower section of Porc ST that I attempted and did not make. That pic looks very much like a a spot I clawed/balanced and lunged up (29x2.3 tires at 17 psi are a wonderful thing), but I can't be certain. Everything kinda blends together after 3 long days in the saddle and 34 hours of driving round trip in one weekend.

    No matter, I dabbed in the aforementioned spot, right in front of a rather attractive girl who was standing next to her bike blocking the best line. Yeah.....she laughed at me!

    The perfect clean run of that section is more than justification for a return trip to moab, and next time I'll get pics!

  93. #93
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    I first rode Porcupine Rim in the mid/late 80s the same spring the guy who pieced together the cow trails. (Todd something or other, I can't remember his name but I remember him talking about it in Rim Cycles and I went out there and didn't find it the first try, almost had to spend the night out on the mesa, think about not being able to find PR today). I've ridden it probably 20 or 25 times since then and it's changed a lot (no portage at the end) but sanitized is not a word I'd use to describe it.

    The trail started to really change when UPS went in and shuttle monkeys took over. It's really gotten hammered since the Whole Enchilada thing and bus loads of shuttlers have been dropped off by the hundreds.

    To be whining about a few rock slab ramps and basic tread maintenance and calling it "sanitation" and turning the trail into a "wheelchair accessible is pretty infantile and hyperbolic IMO. If Moab or any place else is going to turn trails into shuttle zoos there is going to have to be a lot of attention paid to maintenance, there's no way around that.

  94. #94
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I know you have a picture of you cleaning the step up out of the wash.
    I have a VIDEO! But I have posted it enough already to qualify for "annoying guy" so instead I have posted a pic of YOU riding up something equally tough.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91694861@N00/2907993590/" title="LC_WaterfallUp.jpg by hukee, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3073/2907993590_af350967a4_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="LC_WaterfallUp.jpg"></a>

    There is another thread (Moab Trail Conditions) about this same topic that didn't get quite so dramatic, probably because it lacked the intriguing headline. I posted this there:

    A quick note to all those who are terrified that they will absolutely slay the singletrack that Trail Mix worked on - You Won't. It's still challenging, in fact it looks as though they avoided the test pieces all together in favor of working on braided areas. I did notice two or three spots that were easier to ride but they were secondary features that weren't too difficult to begin with. Some of the sandy, grunty little ups have been reinforced to stop erosion. Noticable, but again, not the hardest spots to clean in the first place. The wash is still the wash, I couldn't detect any changes. Ride it tomorrow and be just as proud as if you rode it last year, it's still a neat trick. One change I DID notice was the "V Notch Rock" right after the wash. To clean it previously you had to ride hard into the sloping face of the right rock and it would pop you up onto the trail above. This spot has been widened to perhaps allow pedaling through. I don't know why they did it, but they did. I rode it the same way I always did before and it was still fun, now there just wasn't a crowd of walkers stuck on this feature.

    In all, I would rate the work as A: Well Done (when I even noticed it) and B: Definitely keeps the rugged spirit and technical challenge of the trail intact.


    While I agree that a general grooming of trails is disappointing and undesireable, a lot of folks have pointed out the difference between grooming and maintenance, especially when there are pressures on the trail stewards to maintain standards. I have ridden it a few times now this spring and I added to my description above in gray. My positive opinion of the work and the intent of the work still remains. It's more important to me that the trail be legal than it remain static for decades. Erosion will always keep this trail zesty.

    JMH

  95. #95
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    Her ability to just miss or jump the gun is really quite admirable.[/QUOTE]

    I don't know what you are talking about.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91694861@N00/4595711022/" title="Free Lunch 10 by hukee, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4010/4595711022_5988c81702_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="Free Lunch 10"></a>

    In her defense, many of the best shots to ever come off our camera were taken by my wife. Close action is not typically her forté.

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    R.I.P. Porcupine Singletrack. You had a good run!

    KRob's going the wrong way!

    Did you make it through the notch and around the corner? Even more impressive.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    I first rode Porcupine Rim in the mid/late 80s the same spring the guy who pieced together the cow trails. (Todd something or other, I can't remember his name but I remember him talking about it in Rim Cycles and I went out there and didn't find it the first try, almost had to spend the night out on the mesa, think about not being able to find PR today). I've ridden it probably 20 or 25 times since then and it's changed a lot (no portage at the end) but sanitized is not a word I'd use to describe it.

    The trail started to really change when UPS went in and shuttle monkeys took over. It's really gotten hammered since the Whole Enchilada thing and bus loads of shuttlers have been dropped off by the hundreds.

    To be whining about a few rock slab ramps and basic tread maintenance and calling it "sanitation" and turning the trail into a "wheelchair accessible is pretty infantile and hyperbolic IMO. If Moab or any place else is going to turn trails into shuttle zoos there is going to have to be a lot of attention paid to maintenance, there's no way around that.
    Todd Campbell.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Todd Campbell.
    OK, that sounds right. He was one of a handful of guys living in Moab in that early MTB time period, mid 80s to early 90s who did a lot of the pioneering. Everyone hung out at Rim because it was the only bike shop in town. You'd hear rumor of some new trail or get cryptic directions, "look for a cairn just past the rock that looks like a lizard". Good guy, great rider.

    The good old days. Definitely didn't to contend with busloads of shuttlers in storm trooper garb going for go pro glory. OTOH I did have more than one or two days of getting lost, running low or out of water wondering if I was going to die out in the middle of the stinking desert.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    The good old days. Definitely didn't to contend with busloads of shuttlers in storm trooper garb going for go pro glory.
    Hey man, just because a genre of mountain biking doesn't blow your skirt up doesn't mean it sucks. It takes all kinds. Sure, the growth of our sport has it's downfalls but that's the way it goes and it's also provided us with all sort of great new toys.

    Plus, it's just as easy to make fun of scantily clad skin suit power rangers. Especially when they come to Moab.
    Last edited by Jwind; 05-15-2013 at 10:15 PM.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    OK, that sounds right. He was one of a handful of guys living in Moab in that early MTB time period, mid 80s to early 90s who did a lot of the pioneering. Everyone hung out at Rim because it was the only bike shop in town. You'd hear rumor of some new trail or get cryptic directions, "look for a cairn just past the rock that looks like a lizard". Good guy, great rider.

    The good old days. Definitely didn't to contend with busloads of shuttlers in storm trooper garb going for go pro glory. OTOH I did have more than one or two days of getting lost, running low or out of water wondering if I was going to die out in the middle of the stinking desert.
    yes, his was the original guidebook for Moab, "Above and Beyond Slickrock". Really well done for the time. He hangs out in Boulder now. I used to ride with him a bit while he was in Flagstaff in the mid-90s.

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