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  1. #1
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    Quarry trail DH-ing. BOO HISS

    So Im driving down lcc this eve after a rehearsal dinner and i see a bunch of people unloading their freeride bikes at the top entry. Most of these were wearing full face helmets and armour. I also noted that at least two of the bikes were definately pedalable(bliz and bottlerocket).
    I guess where im going with this is that i hope the riders practice trail etiquette, namely yielding to uphill pedalers and all hikers. Its the people that treat MELLOW multi use trails as their own dh track that give dh and fr a bad name.
    Dont get me wrong, ive shuttled the quarry trail and ride dh. Im all for going fast, but , please dont reinforce a steriotype(sp?) that isnt doing the cause any good. Im not saying that the guys i saw do anything wrong, It just lit a fire under my bum.
    It puts the lotion in the basket or it gets the hose!

  2. #2
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    Saw the same thing today heading down from Alta and echo your thoughts. I don't get it, climbing doesn't get much easier than LCC. Not a great idea on a Saturday afternoon either when you're sharing the trail with about 10000 other hikers/bikers.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  3. #3
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    Yeah, I just don't get why anyone would go through the trouble of setting up a shuttle for such a busy freeway of a trail. It annoys the other users and makes guys on big bikes look retarded.

    But I really can't think of a good way to get people to stop. This post is probably just preaching to the converted, I would guess that 95% of the people on this board are too advanced to consider that ride a worthy DH trail. The guys that are riding it that way are probably newbie brake-lockers. And if they arent... shame on them.

    B- Let's ride soon! My shoulder is all better. We have been doing some great XC rides and also a weekly Mill-D shuttle... good times!

    JMH

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    Maybe because there is no where else to go????

    (Spending every single day at Wolf Mountain and the PC skills park is not a reasonable proposition at this point)

  5. #5
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    Problem is

    those people have those heavy full susp rigs for one reason..To go fast! They bomb down through the hikers and climbers.. Dont get me wrong i love to go fast on my short travel xc bike, but if i see/hear hikers i slow way down and yield...Most of the rippers are young, dont know trail ettiquite and are making a bad name for all bikers on that trail..I only ride it in the early spring for that reason,by mid summer the sand pits are so bad from the rippers its not even fun anymore..To bad too, its the closest trail to my house...If something isnt done i see a mountain bike ban in the future for that trail....

  6. #6
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by dosboy
    those people have those heavy full susp rigs for one reason..To go fast! They bomb down through the hikers and climbers...
    Yes, you're right. I ride big bikes frequently and I suppose you might consider me one of "those people" because I love to go fast. But you are also right about riding fast on crowded trails. It's stupid, it closes trails and you just won't see responsible riders doing it. I actually couldn't care less if that trail gets closed, but I know other people really enjoy it.

    AAMAROO, I understand what you are saying about a lack of trails, but to say that you have to DH shuttle LLC because there aren't a lot of other options is weak. That's like throwing garbage on the ground because you don't see a trashcan. All trails have an intended use, and a vibe. The vibe on that trail is not "shuttle me in armor" and people need to clue into that. Just like riding up Bobsled is foolish, flying down LCC is a recipe for disaster.

    If you are shuttling that trail, you are just bumming people out. It's not fair, but hey, it's not about fair, it's about reality. You have a right to do it, but others have a right to band together and ban bikes. Is it worth it? Not really. Hit the moose! Throw a bear bell on your bike and ride The Crest down Mill D... Yes, there is traffic, but it's almost non-existent in the evenings. There are other options.

    I AM IN UR LLC TRAILZ, SHREDNG UR BRAKE BUMPEZ

    JMH

  7. #7
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    well im sure im going to get crap for this but that was my bottlerocket on friday night. i will proudly admit that i shuttle that fun trail. I ride it once a month with my brothers and dad cause we usually head up around 730 after family dinner. i have biked up it a few times but when you have 2 hours to ride would you rather do one up and back run or 3 shuttle runs? i prefer the 3 but i guess you guys call me crazy for that.

    its the same in alot of sports though, i get crap from my dad cause he is a back country skier and i ride the lifts. just because i don't like to pedal/walk up to the top of a trail/mountain, doesn't make me a bad person. maybe lazy but not bad

    i do show trail etiquette though. i always yeild to hikers and up hill bikers. if you can't go fast and stay in control then thats your problem. i can go as fast as i can down that trail and avoid every person i see. its not like its mueller park with blind corners. just learn to use your brakes a little when you see someone and try to avoid the spandex clad people who see you coming but still insist on staying in the middle of the trail and you should be fine.
    in my eyes the cross country guys are to hikers as the dh crew is to xc. maybe im wrong. there will always be people faster than others using a trail.

    well there is my two cents and hopefully it won't affend too many spandex wearers.

    JMH, don't be upset with this post, im sure i will be riding with you sooner or later cause i ride with err alot.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    Is it worth it? Not really. Hit the moose! Throw a bear bell on your bike and ride The Crest down Mill D... Yes, there is traffic, but it's almost non-existent in the evenings. There are other options.JMH
    oh and we usually do use a bear bell, plus the last time i rode mill d i ran into twice the amount of hikers than i usually see on the quarry trail. people like the deso/dog lake hiking trails. when it comes to running into hikers i must either have really good luck on the quarry trail or i had really bad luck on the mill d trail. i even saw three people biking up to deso lake!! (crazy sob's)

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    .If something isnt done i see a mountain bike ban in the future for that trail....
    What do you suggest be done???... a ban on mountain bikers?

    This conversation is headed in the totally wrong direction. LCC Quarry trail is a fun downhill romp. You can go really fast on that trail with plenty of time to slow down for other trail users. I've never heard of a serious accident or someone getting hurt. It is there for everybody. There is no reason freeriders and downhillers shouldn't have access to that trail. The only people I have ever heard complain about it are other mountain bikers. In fact the only people I ever hear talking about banning mountain bikers are other mountain bikers... some of whom are supposedly 'trail' advocates. Is there something wrong here? Until there is some other reasonable alternative in LCC live and let be I say. In fact it should be made a 'shuttle only' trail on certain days with some jumps added in. I think you all a making a big deal out of nothing and just giving ammunition to people who may not be so MTB friendly. Chew on that.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMMAROO
    What do you suggest be done???... a ban on mountain bikers?

    This conversation is headed in the totally wrong direction. LCC Quarry trail is a fun downhill romp. You can go really fast on that trail with plenty of time to slow down for other trail users. I've never heard of a serious accident or someone getting hurt. It is there for everybody. There is no reason freeriders and downhillers shouldn't have access to that trail. The only people I have ever heard complain about it are other mountain bikers. In fact the only people I ever hear talking about banning mountain bikers are other mountain bikers... some of whom are supposedly 'trail' advocates. Is there something wrong here? Until there is some other reasonable alternative in LCC live and let be I say. In fact it should be made a 'shuttle only' trail on certain days with some jumps added in. I think you all a making a big deal out of nothing and just giving ammunition to people who may not be so MTB friendly. Chew on that.
    The LCC for the most part is a sidewalk that can be "shredded" with a cross bike. Seriously, riding the road next to the trail is almost as much fun.
    ,
    I'm sorry, but from my end (maybe locals to the trail would see it differently), I wouldn't have a problem having LCC shuttered to bikes if it meant keeping the heat off other trails...
    It's just frustrating sometimes being an Athena...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMMAROO
    giving ammunition to people who may not be so MTB friendly. Chew on that.
    The dudes scaring Yoga Moms and grumpy old XC guys on the trail are the ones giving them ammo, I am simply pointing out that high-traffic trails that are easily accessible to joggers and mellow xc families are not the best places to do DH runs. I lived in Socal for long enough to notice that the trails that get closed are the trails that you can shuttle on big bikes where there are lots of other trail users.

    This is all simply my opinion, and I would discuss this the same mellow way with good friends or guys I have never met. I have no beef with you or any other shuttlers because we all have a right to ride that trail. But I am pointing out that it might not be too smart if you want to avoid conflict. I have no personal interest in that trail either way, but if you like riding it you have to remember that at least half of the other users will be scared of you or dislike you simply because of your bike, helmet and gear. You don't have to be out of control or hit someone to scare them, you know?

    I love to pin it when I can, and I have certainly scared the crap out of my share of hikers, so I am not saying I am without fault. But my right to be on the trail doesn't make it okay.

    JMH

  12. #12
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    body armor and quarry

    never mind....

  13. #13
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMMAROO
    The only people I have ever heard complain about it are other mountain bikers. In fact the only people I ever hear talking about banning mountain bikers are other mountain bikers... some of whom are supposedly 'trail' advocates. Is there something wrong here?
    Part of being an effective advocate for MTB trails is understanding trail types, user groups and working to avoid user conflicts. I can't think of one other trail that is mentioned more than LCC when the issue of shuttling comes up. That indicates that there is some kind of problem, don't you think? Without serious re-design of that trail, it will become a bigger issue in the future.

    I don't claim to have the answer, but if you are interested in trail advocacy and creating new opportunites for us to build great trails, I know Steve at WAFTA needs all the help he can get with the projects we have going. There are meetings all the time where trail use is debated and MTB could use some serious representation. If you already do these things, that's awesome! If you don't, you might be interested to see how trail negotiations work (or don't work, sometimes). The IMBA trail building books also have a bunch of great info about how to minimize user conflicts. Often, conflicts are the fault of the trail design, not the riders. In the case of LCC, the same features that make it fun for beginner xc kids and hikers (wide, good sight lines, smooth corners) also make it way too fun to ride wide open on a bigger bike, which virtually guarantees user conflicts. Interesting stuff.

    JMH
    Last edited by JMH; 07-30-2007 at 01:15 PM.

  14. #14
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    i don't care if you are wearing spandex and going 15 mph past a hiker or wearing a full face and going 30 mph. you are going to scare the grandma's. i have ridden that trail many times. i have never once had a hiker get mad at me. i have had xc guys upset. not cause im in the way but because i didn't pedal up to the top (which is stupid). the very few times i have accidently scared a hiker i stop and talk to them and almost everytime they are laughing about it with their friends.
    and i know some of you are the most bada$$ bikers out there but some of us are not. i have rode moose, lots of other hard trails at resorts but im still learning. my wife on the other hand just started and LCC is her favorite trail. its a great trail for us to go on cause i can have fun by going fast and she loves it. i just wait at certain sections for her to catch up. i agree that moose is far better then LCC but not for everyone in every situation.

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    I think the bigger issue with that trail and other areas are the people that ride and build illegal trails. People condemn others for riding leagal multi use trails but it is ok to go off into the woods and make your own? I have met the forrest service people on the Cottonwood trail coming in from the top and all he was worried about was that I didn't ride the side trail that linked the campground looking areas and they had to go in and chop down the stunts. Same thing with Squaw Peak where they have to hide out and give tickets. What do you think will hurt the MTB community more: Some hikers complaining to the forrest service worker or the forrest service worker complaining to the field office when the time comes to evaluate trail usage? This whole thread is also based on assumtion and stereotyping where no hiker/biker incident was even witnessed.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dosboy
    ...If something isnt done i see a mountain bike ban in the future for that trail....
    Yeah probably gonna happen. I don't get it. The trail is lame and people shuttling that thing are even lamer.
    No other downhillish options?

    How about DV, Wolf, Bountiful, a few of the PC trails, bobsleigh, bobs basin, the goods in AF, .. **** even multi-use trails such as Mill D would be more fun and less bothersome to the other trail users.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by climbingbubba
    just learn to use your brakes a little when you see someone and try to avoid the spandex clad people who see you coming but still insist on staying in the middle of the trail and you should be fine.
    .

    They have the priority. Period. You're going down: you're supposed to get the **** out of the way. Beside. armor and pads on the quarry trail? You got to be kidding me.

  18. #18
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    Perception

    You may be in control. But you have to consider how the hikers feel. Most of them have no idea whether you're in control or not. To them, you appear to be crazy. I often slow down and give a nice smile and hello to hikers just to reassure them that we mountain bikers are paying attention to them and care about their safety.

    I just moved from the Bay Area, where no one has any regard for anyone else. Hikers hate mountain bikers and most mountain bikers hate hikers. A little sensitivity and respect go a long way. I wouldn't want to see Salt Lake become what the Bay Area has become. Anyone want a 15 mph speed limit and rangers with radar on the trails? I sure don't.
    Back of the camera, back of the pack.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mani_UT
    The trail is lame and people shuttling that thing are even lamer.
    No other downhillish options? .
    wow you must be pretty hard core if you are calling the quarry trail lame. i mean maybe someday the rest of us people who are "even lamer" than you just might be able to make it to your absolute knowledge of this trail but until then just stay off of it and leave the lame trail to us lame people. im sure that will make everyone happy

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mani_UT
    They have the priority. Period. You're going down: you're supposed to get the **** out of the way. Beside. armor and pads on the quarry trail? You got to be kidding me.
    i agree that they do but some see you coming up and make you almost get off of the trail, and when you do they still give you a dirty look. its a double track. there is enough room for up and down traffic. i always yeild the right of way. i even yeild to the people coming down cause i treat people like i would like to but that never gets back. karma sucks in biking

    oh and i do wear knee shin pads on every trail. when i get to the top i put them on. even xc trails have little drops and jumps if you look for them. like i said im still new so yes i wear pads on the quarry trail. not armor though. i don't own it.

    this is getting way out of hand too. just bike what you want and how you want. all of you people say how lame the quarry trail is so why do you care if it gets closed (its not like it will cause you are the only people complaining, not the hikers). just let us ride the way you want and you ride the way you want. if it ever comes up as a concern with the forrest service then i will stop.
    i think they are pretty busy trying to stop all of your guys illegal trails though to worry about the quarry trail

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    Quote Originally Posted by climbingbubba
    wow you must be pretty hard core if you are calling the quarry trail lame.
    A multi-use trail that is 10' wide and mostly groomed with hikers and XC riders going up and down it. Yeah that counts as lame as far as DH trails go in my book.

    im still learning.... its a great trail for us to go on cause i can have fun by going fast
    Yeah nothing like beginners hauling ass out of control on a multiuse family trail..

    Now may be I am pissed because one of my friends got nearly taken out by some armor clad fool on this trail so I might not be completely impartial to the issue. (The person also rides downhill and can differentiate a rider in control from someone just about to explode any second)

    Nothing personal but I feel they are better trail where YOU would have more fun while limiting user conflicts...

    Anyway. Peace out.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mani_UT
    Nothing personal but I feel they are better trail where YOU would have more fun while limiting user conflicts...

    Anyway. Peace out.
    i agree that there are way better trails out there. i ride this trail once every other month at most. i have done moose, empire, deervalley, every trail possible at wolf, every trail at keystone, and tons all over the rest of this state. just because there is so much out there doesn't mean we should stay away from the quarry. i get the point that people think it is lame. why do you have to call me, my wife, and my family lame for liking it? i think its fun.

    anyway, i am out of this thread
    no hard feelings and maybe some of you hardcore people could suffer through a ride with us "newbs" on the moose or the b trail sometime. all of the hardcore trails i have rode in the last couple of months have been with a guy who has amazing skills and is not so stuck on himself to ride with people who are still learning to fr/dh. i wish more people would treat everyone with respect.

    mani, if you want to ride sometime then i am game. i would love for someone to show me the bountiful B trails. i get a little too into stuff so im backing out before i piss every xc guy out there.
    goodbye and good luck everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by climbingbubba
    i agree that there are way better trails out there. i ride this trail once every other month at most.. i get the point that people think it is lame. why do you have to call me, my wife, and my family lame for liking it? i think its fun.
    .
    Ok now you make me feel like a dick
    I think the trail is a great FAMILY trail! No question about that. That is also why I am bummed when I see cohortes of armored rider with full faces going down it full out.

    Bountiful is best in the fall or the spring. It is much too hot in the summer unless you get a cold spell but above 90 it is like an oven. I'd love to show you the trails or other in that matter. I have no amazing skills nor tricks but I know where the good trails are.

    If you want to go some evening PM me the day before and I'll be game.

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by climbingbubba
    i agree that there are way better trails out there. i ride this trail once every other month at most. i have done moose, empire, deervalley, every trail possible at wolf, every trail at keystone, and tons all over the rest of this state. just because there is so much out there doesn't mean we should stay away from the quarry. i get the point that people think it is lame. why do you have to call me, my wife, and my family lame for liking it? i think its fun.

    anyway, i am out of this thread
    no hard feelings and maybe some of you hardcore people could suffer through a ride with us "newbs" on the moose or the b trail sometime. all of the hardcore trails i have rode in the last couple of months have been with a guy who has amazing skills and is not so stuck on himself to ride with people who are still learning to fr/dh. i wish more people would treat everyone with respect.

    mani, if you want to ride sometime then i am game. i would love for someone to show me the bountiful B trails. i get a little too into stuff so im backing out before i piss every xc guy out there.
    goodbye and good luck everyone.
    You claim to be a new rider, but you dismiss the experiences/advice of veteran bikers. Many of us old- timers have seen trail closers due to reckless behavior. I don't think anyone was accusing you of being reckless; I think they were merely suggesting that many riders should use more caution.

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    Wow! Lots o' passion about the quarry trail....funny how these threads pop up a few times a year.

    I ride the quarry trail, mostly because it's the only trail I can ride from home. I grew up hiking, running, and biking on that trail, and while I really only ride it in the spring/fall anymore, I would be really sad if it was closed to bikes.

    I see people shuttling it all the time - would I ever do it? Probably not.....but not because I don't like riding down, but because the climb really isn't that bad. There are riders of all levels on that trail, and I've been bumped off a line while climbing by a crazy xc racer dude that passed me in a techy section.

    When you ride that trail, you just need to know that there are going to be all sorts of people walking, hiking, running, and biking on the trail. Families and boy scouts love that trail. Practice good etiquette and be respectful of those around you.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by utsnowgirl
    When you ride that trail, you just need to know that there are going to be all sorts of people walking, hiking, running, and biking on the trail. Families and boy scouts love that trail. Practice good etiquette and be respectful of those around you.

    well i think that pretty much says it all. Nicely put. I too have almost been run over on that trail (climbing not biking). I am tempted to make myself into a human crashpad burrito everytime i cross the quarry trail to get to the bouldering areas across the creek (i.e. riverside, farside, wasatch resort). I love to go fast too, but as snowgirl said, just be mindful of others using that trail.

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    Exactly, respect.
    I necer said anything about a particular incident, just that it got me thinking.
    I too like to ride fast on big bikes(demo 7 and a slayer for xc) I was just hinting that a bit of etiquette goes a very long way. I always love it when someone yells at me that the downhill rider has right of way, and isnt kidding.
    Oh yeah, ive never worn lycra unless its under something baggy!
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH

    B- Let's ride soon! My shoulder is all better. We have been doing some great XC rides and also a weekly Mill-D shuttle... good times!

    JMH
    I'm definitely down for that, went on a non riding vacation for 10 days and now my parents have been in town visiting. Good times but I'm dying to get back on the bike. Might do a few after work rides later this week after they leave town and will definitely be riding somewhere on Sunday. You got anything planned? Good to hear you're healing up well!


    As far as the LCC goes, I can't say I understand the point of shuttling the thing but don't have much of an issue with it if it is done respectfully. I've been forced to yield while climbing just for the sake of self-preservation on that trail and Big Water more times than I care to think about. Even someone with great bike control is going to get themselves into bad situations on those two trails if they are truly trying to make a downhill/freeride run out of them.
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    So... don't ride the Quarry trail on a mountain bike or Mountain bikes will be banned. What kind of logic is that? If it is such a sucky trail what do you care if bikes get banned from it?

    Utah is NOT California. People let people do what they want here. Utahn's, as backward and unimaginative as they are, are actually pretty tolerant people. All this talk about trail etiquette, and banning is ********, and is spread by liars and fear mongers. You can shuttle the quarry trail, and go mach 5 all day, every day, and the trail will NEVER be closed to mountain bikers. NEVER! People like mountain sports around here, unlike California. Stop being so concerned about what people think about you. STOP SPREADING LIES AND FEAR!

    In fact I am putting my armor on, right now, and going to do a shuttle lap on the Quarry Trail just to piss off all the California transplants who want to tell me what is an "acceptable" place to ride.
    Last edited by AMMAROO; 07-31-2007 at 01:25 PM.

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    Okay

    Well when you run over my 100 lb wife around a blind corner like some ******* like you did 3 years ago be prepared to get you ass kicked you ignorant piece of ****..its people like you who destroy it for the rest of us...Oh and By the way - millcreek didnt used to be banned to bikers every other day hmmm looks like trails can change this is becoming like cali hmmm HOA lane sure lookss similar dumbass

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    No, Utah is not California. Utah has a much higher birth rate and faster population growth with fewer natural resources. We also have consistently lower air quality.

    Go ahead and put your head between your knees and chant "there is no place like home" while the rest of us protect your right to ride.
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

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    Heeehee

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMMAROO
    So... don't ride the Quarry trail on a mountain bike or Mountain bikes will be banned. What kind of logic is that? If it is such a sucky trail what do you care if bikes get banned from it?

    Utah is NOT California. People let people do what they want here. Utahn's, as backward and unimaginative as they are, are actually pretty tolerant people. All this talk about trail etiquette, and banning is ********, and is spread by liars and fear mongers. You can shuttle the quarry trail, and go mach 5 all day, every day, and the trail will NEVER be closed to mountain bikers. NEVER! People like mountain sports around here, unlike California. Stop being so concerned about what people think about you. STOP SPREADING LIES AND FEAR!

    In fact I am putting my armor on, right now, and going to do a shuttle lap on the Quarry Trail just to piss off all the California transplants who want to tell me what is an "acceptable" place to ride.

    Yeah, Utah and tolerance just go hand in hand don't they? I hate to break it to you but this state is on the fast track to become California Jr. (How many more JMHs or chuckys can this place stand ) If people were truly so tolerant of MTBers, you wouldn't have to resort to hucking those sick 6" drops on LCC. There's a reason that you aren't seeing any real MTB trails being built and all the ones we enjoy being sanitized more every day, it certainly doesn't have anything to do with the wants and needs of MTBers.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  34. #34
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    I'm not a liberal or from California, and I think your're an a$$ as well Ammaroo.

  35. #35
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    ettiquite

    I think the main point is, downhillers and xc riders are like snowboarders and skii'ers..We'll always be blaming eachother for the problems that come from our sport..The main point is we need to be courteus to people, dont bomb around a blind corner, pull over when people are coming up they have the right away, if your approaching people on a doubletrack at least slow down a little maybey say hi....It just takes a little extra effort for us all to co exist quarry trail or big water, mill d, all have the same damn problem..I was climbing yesterday up big water on single track came around a blind shrubby corner and whoom almost got plowed by some ass on an xc bike , if you cant see if there is a person there just assume the worste , that there is it keeps you from running over my wife, a dog, an old man, or in my case 2 months ago a giant f-ing porcupine (almost hit the bastard)..Drop the attitude and show a little respect

  36. #36
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    Funny Thread

    Lots of negativity here. Silly. We all want the same thing - to enjoy the ride. However, "enjoyment" of the ride means different things to different people. We all have the right to pursue happiness, assuming that said pursuit does not infringe on the rights of others. Trail rights are subject to all forms of debate, but the basic rule that seems to govern trail rights are the degree to which one human respects the rights of another.

    An example - I like cruising down the Dog Lake Trail. There are certain times of day when this works very well, like at 5am. Very little traffic at this time of day. However, this past Saturday at 9:30am as I descended after enjoying a great ride, I went slow, not cruising at all. I really respect those hiking, running, etc. because I've been in their shoes when someone bombs down the trail. And now I exercise even more caution and respect as I have kids of my own and take them hiking on the trails and have to snatch them out of the way of on-coming traffic.

    My point . . . we all need to look at the world from others eyes and not our own to get the proper perspective on how to coexist peacefully. And when we seek our enjoyment, we need to pay the price necessary to avoid causing trouble for others, i.e., getting up early to cruise Dog Lake, etc.

    Ok, I'm stepping down from my self righteous soap box. Have a great day!!

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