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  1. #1
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    I'm really confused .... (Canyons Bike Park)

    From Go-Ride on my FB feed:

    Here's the low down on the upcoming volunteer trail building day for the new DH trail at Canyons.

    Saturday, June 9

    -12:00pm-6:00pm

    -No bikes

    -Volunteers encouraged to bring own tools if they have (No power tools)

    -Everyone will get a bike park lift ticket that assists

    -Raffle for swag, bike park tickets and bike park season passes

    -Will provide beverages and lunch

    -Volunteers will load gondola whenever they arrive. We will send groups to specific trails in High Meadow (Hiking up)

    -Download by 6:00pm or whenever volunteers can stay until

    -Working on drink tickets for end of day

    Thanks
    So, Canyons is upping the price of lift tickets from $15 to $35 and they want the bike community to come build the trails ........... Am I the only one who is confused here? Did something happen that I didn't hear about?

  2. #2
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    Free Lunch and a Free Bike Park ticket in exchange for digging trail. Sounds like a great deal.

  3. #3
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    What doesn't make sense about volunteering to build a trail on their land that they'll in turn discourage you from riding for free and have to instead pay them all year to ride? We really need to help them make more money so that they can complete their purchase of Solitude and ruin the Crest forever. Mind blowing that they jack prices up the way they did to account for all the improvements they'll supposedly be offering and they now want the people they are ripping off to volunteer to make those changes for them. While they are at it, maybe they should take up donations so that we can help them improve their lift system so they can offer better service to us as well.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  4. #4
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    You know what. **** you guys. Whistler every year has build days in the early season, with free lunch and tickets.. It's really cool. They aren't forcing you to do anything, but if you like to build and ride, it's awesome. Why are you complaining? Honestly though, with your attitude I am starting to believe that Utah doesn't deserve an effing bike park.

  5. #5
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    I would love to go out and help build trails. They're providing lunch and lift tickets and raffling away season passes! Sounds like a win win for everybody!

  6. #6
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    Monkeys are easy to fool

    Personally I do not like the pay to play when it comes to mountain biking. I also agree that is Bull**** to ask for help building trail that you in turn want to charge the people who built it to ride On top of that there is the desire to further develop the backcountry and predictibly further limit mountain biking in the area. Combine those things with a 100% plus increase in the price of a lift ticket and its not hard to see what people object to.

    Monkey I have a hard time understanding your attitude. Your correct nobody is forcing anyone to come help and nobody is telling you that you cannot. This forum is a place to share information and opinions so don't upset just because someone feels differently then you. With so many build and trail maintainace days in the area put on by legit non profit organizations for trails on public lands with free access I have a hard time seeing why anyone would show up to help Talisker make a few more dollars.
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  7. #7
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    You are paying to use the lift. If you are happy getting a few laps in in a day somewhere without a lift go ahead. I enjoy riding that way, but I also really enjoy being able to do a ton of laps only riding downhill. That is something that we are severely lacking in the PC area. I personally will support any advancement in lift assisted riding be it throught trail build days or season passes.

    Also, the ski link to me has nothing to do with the bike park. Let's not kid ourselves and act like the financial success of Talisker depends on the bike park. It's more like the summer jobs of the trail builders and lifties depend on it.

  8. #8
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    $100 says that Pedalfaraway doesn't have the nuts to hit anything in the bike park.

    Real riders love to dig, for its own sake, and they don't complain. Lunch and lift tickets are just frosting.

  9. #9
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    Pedalfaraway -

    Maybe we should put on a cleaning day at your vacation rentals. Everyone can come help clean. That way you don't have to pay someone to come do it. I mean people are paying to stay in the apartment, not have it clean. That's just a bonus, right?

    You can offer up some menial reward that really doesn't cost you anything. Hell, you might even give away a night or two at one of the properties.

    Monkeyhands - I don't know what to tell you, buddy, but name calling and slinging insults won't get you far in life. If you want to kid yourself and think that Canyons isn't trying to cut costs and increase profit by convincing the biking community to come do the work for free, then you go right ahead. You go right ahead . . .

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands View Post
    $100 says that Pedalfaraway doesn't have the nuts to hit anything in the bike park.

    Real riders love to dig, for its own sake, and they don't complain. Lunch and lift tickets are just frosting.
    Pedalfar - I'll put up the cash, you hit "anything" in the park, and we'll split it 50/50.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyhands View Post
    Free Lunch and a Free Bike Park ticket in exchange for digging trail. Sounds like a great deal.

    It is a great deal if you get paid $5.83 an hour in your day job and then collect free lunch at one of the local charities.

    Even day laborers typically don't have to provide their own tools. But I am sure the Canyons will reimburse anyone who breaks their personal McLeod working on their private trails.

    Nice one,Talisker.
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

  12. #12
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    I'll take your $100.

    If nothing else it will keep it out of the hands of Talisker. You have a time and date in mind for me to get paid to ride??
    Visiting St george/Hurricane? Stay at my vacation rental. Discounts for MTB's

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalfaraway View Post
    If nothing else it will keep it out of the hands of Talisker. You have a time and date in mind for me to get paid to ride??
    At $5.83 an hour, it is going to take Monkeyhands a long time to pay you. He won't be short of work though, I am going to hire him and fire my gardener to save money.
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuky View Post
    At $5.83 an hour, it is going to take Monkeyhands a long time to pay you. He won't be short of work though, I am going to hire him and fire my gardener to save money.
    Monkeyhands took our jerrrrrbs!

  15. #15
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    "Utah needs more trails"

    "Canyons is too greedy so let's not help them or support their building of trails"

    Make up your damn minds.

    1) It is a business
    2) It is providing a service.
    3) Here's the big surprise: they're trying to get more done with fewer resources expended.

    Guess what, if you want trails built you need people to build them. Canyons is building trails therefore Canyons needs people to build trails. If Canyons gets help from a larger than normal amount of bodies then trails get built faster.

    Bottom line: if you don't agree that people should volunteer to build trails then don't show up to build trails. Where did everyone's attitude come from? If I were a Canyons exec reading this board I'd just say "**** these spoiled dirt bags" and bail on the park plans. No matter your opinion on Talisker (which should be negative these days if you like the outdoors at all) it is hard to deny that any resort opening bike terrain is a sign to the community and other resorts that gravity biking does have a place in Utah. The more gravity terrain opens, the more the perceived demand there is for gravity terrain, and eventually (hopefully) the more gravity terrain gets opened.

    If you love biking why is it such an abomination that you go trade some sweat for a lift pass? Are you going to send nasty letters to Silverton mountain to protest them giving out free lift passes for boot packing the early season snow? Take a step back and get some perspective; is this really worth getting so angry about? Isn't there a monster lift that you could be posting somehow racist comments on KSL about instead?
    Don't you hate it when a sentence doesn't end the way you think it octopus?

  16. #16
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    There are a lot of reasons for me, but let's look at the reasons of a person who dislikes Talisker less than I do:

    Let's start with rider communication.

    - so far, Canyons has not indicated that there will be a second, faster lift. So, will you be digging a trail in that will be faster to push?

    - the Canyons has every right to block the trails on their property at night, and given their record of restricting areas of land, it would not surprise me. So, if you are a trailbuilding volunteer that can't make their restricted hours, there is a chance you will not get to ride the trails you build. They certainly don't promise otherwise.

    I don't think people are angry so much as skeptical. Canyons has communicated a rate increase and nothing else. For a new bike park, they are pretty dismissive of the community, and that is a bad precedent for the future.

    Real volunteer trail efforts offer some understanding of long term legacy and partnership. The Canyons offers nothing.
    Last edited by chuky; 05-18-2012 at 03:42 PM.
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

  17. #17
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    They are not 'dismissive' of the community', as you say. They are inviting us to participate. A bike park is an incredibly low margin enterprise. The more profitable it is the better it is for the entire riding community, as it is a proof of value to other resorts who might be thinking of opening their own bike park to compete, and yes, even convincing to public land managers that we need more if this sort of thing. More riders, more supports, more trails. Its a virtuous cycle. Stop talking down one of the best things northern Utah riding scene has going for it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gratephul View Post
    also, the ski link to me has nothing to do with the bike park. Let's not kid ourselves and act like the financial success of talisker depends on the bike park. It's more like the summer jobs of the trail builders and lifties depend on it.
    qft

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuky View Post
    There are a lot of reasons for me, but let's look at the reasons of a person who dislikes Talisker less than I do:

    Let's start with rider communication.

    - so far, Canyons has not indicated that there will be a second, faster lift. So, will you be digging a trail in that will be faster to push?

    - the Canyons has every right to block the trails on their property at night, and given their record of restricting areas of land, it would not surprise me. So, if you are a trailbuilding volunteer that can't make their restricted hours, there is a chance you will not get to ride the trails you build. They certainly don't promise otherwise.

    I don't think people are angry so much as skeptical. Canyons has communicated a rate increase and nothing else. For a new bike park, they are pretty dismissive of the community, and that is a bad precedent for the future.

    Real volunteer trail efforts offer some understanding of long term legacy and partnership. The Canyons offers nothing.
    Canyons CANNOT make the lift faster without replacing the lift. It is on a fixed cable. The land above the current location is apparently owned (in small pieces) by the osguthorpes. Who are of course the most litigious family in Park City. They most certainly are not a bike friendly crew. So saddleback express (the detachable quad) will be off limits to the bike park.

    The sign last summer said not to ride the trails without buying a lift ticket. So it seems obvious they don't want pedalers on the new stuff after hours.

    We could just go out and help the awesome people working on the trail who have been hamstrung by the management. That would show support of the folks who are working to make something awesome.

    And to Zebrahum who seems a little peeved at other riders, I would like to add that I am happy to go work on trails for free. But Canyons offer is a bit insulting. 12 year old baby sitters make more cash and do much less. So it certainly does make it a challenge to get fired up to help out. I imagine I'll probably make it to the dig, but that will be in spite of their insulting kindness.

    Lastly about the "nuts to hit anything" bs. I remember talk like that in grade school and it doesn't even belong there.

  20. #20
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    Has Pedalfaraway even ridden the bike park? Has he hit any of the features? My bet is that he hasn't, that's all.

  21. #21
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    I have not ridden the bike park

    I have been waiting or some monkey to offer me 100 dollars to do so.
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  22. #22
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    So Pedalfaraway, If you admit to not having ridden the bike park and no intention to (without someone paying you), why are you even here? The Canyons Bike Park does not concern you at all. Those trails are not for you as you are not even a potential customer. Why are you spreading negativity for no reason? May I kindly suggest that you butt out and mind your own business?

  23. #23
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    150 days

    Firstly, I would estimate that in the past 10 years i have been mountain biking I have ridden at the canyons on about 150 days. I have ridden in close to 20 races that were based at the canyons, so I am a customer there as well.In addition to the race fees themselves I have also rented rooms in the motel, used the bike shop, ate at resturants, attended concerts etc etc etc. While I am an XC rider and will likely never take a single ride on a lift I am most definatly a trail user in the area and a customer.

    Second How is any of this anymore ones person busniess then anothers? None of us here are land owners or have anything invested in the canyons so its really none of any of our business. Please refer to my inital post regarding the sharing of information and opinions.

    Thirdly people who live in glass houses should not throw rocks. Guess who the most negitive poster in this thread is.
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  24. #24
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    They're going to have trouble making money on this venture if only the people that rode there in the first half season with no critical feedback are welcome.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  25. #25
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    Pedalfaraway, you have not been, nor will you ever be (I suspect) a customer of the Canyons Bike Park. I seriously doubt you even have the skills to ride there. The Bike Park has nothing to do with XC racing. You have no business posting in any thread related to the bike park. You are a drag on the northern Utah riding scene. Piss off. Please. Thank you.
    Last edited by monkeyhands; 05-19-2012 at 02:26 AM.

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