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Thread: Flying Dog??

  1. #1
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    Flying Dog??

    Whats the word on Flying Dog? Is it worth riding yet, or too much hike-a-bike??
    Thanks.

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    it was open today, I turned off and rode the preserve connector instead which was perfectly dry. Rode flying dog on friday, it was still closed at 3pm, and opened saturday morning, i was the second track through and there was about a 30 minute hike a bike through snow in one spot, other than that the trail was sweet, probably getting better as we speak
    Last edited by turbonate; 05-20-2008 at 10:07 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbonate
    Rode flying dog on friday, it was still closed
    Fvcking genius.

  4. #4
    Lev
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    Flying Dog had about 100 or so yrds that were covered up by snow yesterday. Not too bad overall. I'd say in a week or so of hot days it'll be almost completely dry... almost

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    Should be pretty sick after we get snow this week....
    I like bikes.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by radnasty
    Fvcking genius.
    ^^^ ^^^

    I mean, am I stupid or does closed not mean closed? Not "closed to everyone except the special people" that can't or won't read? And don't give me that "yeah bro, but I'm a local brah and it's just that the trail managers are too lazy to take the signs down" crap......

    I've been riding GW for the last few weeks and wanted to ride those trails as much as anyone. I mean come on, this is not Nam, there are rules..............

    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    ^^^ ^^^

    I mean, am I stupid or does closed not mean closed? Not "closed to everyone except the special people" that can't or won't read? And don't give me that "yeah bro, but I'm a local brah and it's just that the trail managers are too lazy to take the signs down" crap......

    I've been riding GW for the last few weeks and wanted to ride those trails as much as anyone. I mean come on, this is not Nam, there are rules..............

    B
    Amen brother...
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    Does anyone know where I can go to get a pass that will allow me to ride on closed trails? I guess maybe I'm not as special as my mom tells me I am.....
    "Donuts. Is there anything they can't do?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    ^^^ ^^^

    I mean, am I stupid or does closed not mean closed? Not "closed to everyone except the special people" that can't or won't read? And don't give me that "yeah bro, but I'm a local brah and it's just that the trail managers are too lazy to take the signs down" crap......

    I've been riding GW for the last few weeks and wanted to ride those trails as much as anyone. I mean come on, this is not Nam, there are rules..............

    B
    At the risk of getting beaten up...

    Let's talk about this a bit. Does anyone know who is taking the responsibility of posting the closed signs on those trails (let's say Flying Dog + 24/7 + Glenwild stuff, for example) I'm just curious. I agree with Bortis about the closure breakings, EXCEPT that numerous times the trails are posted as "closed muddy conditions exist" when in fact they are perfectly dry. As a good case in point, on Saturday the second part of the Cobblestone loop was marked as closed. We were about to turn around and go back down when a person walking her dogs came by (seemed like a local home-owner, but I don't know) and said "oh, I just walked that whole trail, its completely dry". Well...now we have conflicting info - the orange sign and a real live person who just was on the trail....naturally we rode the trail. (yes, it was dry) So the real truth is that I am opposed to riding trails when they are muddy, and I question signs of unknown authority and unknown accuracy. I want to play by the rules, but what if the rules are all messed up? I guess that's why I'm curious about who's the authority in charge of opening/closing the trails. (obviously different for PC Mtn trails, SLC shoreline, glenwild etc)

    Again, don't get me wrong - there is nothing that pisses me off more than idiots riding wet trails, leaving deep ruts (or horse prints...don't get me started) but how can I trust this un-named authority that wields the orange signs?

    Let's say (I don't know, so its possible...) that the signs are posted by some random group of trail users that happen to live in the Jeremy ranch area. Let's say again, that because they are loosely organized, and fairly informal, they don't get out and check the trails every day (oh crap, I was supposed to check Flying Dog today, but my kid got sick...). How long do us mere mortals have to wait before the trail is officially opened?

    I guess if the signs said: closed by authority of the snyderville basin trail association ( call 555-1212 with questions) I would feel better about not checking to see what the actual trail conditions are for myself.

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    I would say whoever owns the land should know who is responsible for taking down and putting up signs. BLM probably in most cases.
    "Donuts. Is there anything they can't do?"

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    Am i the only one reading turbonateís post? He hiked-a-bike for THIRTY MINUTES people! Jezzus, it's all i can muster to take the damn thing of the roofrack and he's HIKING? Are we not bikers? Did god not give us the wheel (and another one, for good measure)?

    I think we should salute turbonateís plucky, can-do attitude and ask that if he's willing to take responsibility for riding down closed trails at the risk of damaging them, then he should be willing to take responsibility in helping build and maintain them. Join WAFTA, come dig at draper tomorrow, and you can do all the hard work you want, AND get refreshments, AND get to shred the trails once they're done. This is a call to arms, Olympian.

  12. #12
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    ... and if we just ...

    [QUOTE=SingleWhiteCaveman]Am i the only one reading turbonateís post? He hiked-a-bike for THIRTY MINUTES people! Jezzus, it's all i can muster to take the damn thing of the roofrack and he's HIKING? Are we not bikers? Did god not give us the wheel (and another one, for good measure)?/QUOTE]
    Nice response to the flames!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcpunk
    At the risk of getting beaten up...

    Again, don't get me wrong - there is nothing that pisses me off more than idiots riding wet trails, leaving deep ruts (or horse prints...don't get me started) but how can I trust this un-named authority that wields the orange signs?

    Let's say (I don't know, so its possible...) that the signs are posted by some random group of trail users that happen to live in the Jeremy ranch area. Let's say again, that because they are loosely organized, and fairly informal, they don't get out and check the trails every day (oh crap, I was supposed to check Flying Dog today, but my kid got sick...). How long do us mere mortals have to wait before the trail is officially opened?
    I'm guessing reality is somewhere between the trails not being ready and the trail managers not being on top of things.

    To me it is simple. Three simple rules:

    1. Don't ride closed trails
    2. If you are a prick and do ride closed trials don't post about it on web forums and encourage other idiots to follow your example.
    3. If you ride a closed trail and it has hike-a-bike section(s) through snow and mud, when you get home or in the parking lot after the ride, punch yourself in the crotch for an equal number of minutes to the hike-a-bike section(s).

    My take anyway.

    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  14. #14
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    Amen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    I'm guessing reality is somewhere between the trails not being ready and the trail managers not being on top of things.

    To me it is simple. Three simple rules:

    1. Don't ride closed trails
    2. If you are a prick and do ride closed trials don't post about it on web forums and encourage other idiots to follow your example.
    3. If you ride a closed trail and it has hike-a-bike section(s) through snow and mud, when you get home or in the parking lot after the ride, punch yourself in the crotch for an equal number of minutes to the hike-a-bike section(s).

    My take anyway.

    B
    Agreed, especially point 2. As for punching myself in the crotch repeatedly I'll leave that up to the individual. I'd rather be spanked.

  15. #15
    JMH
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    I agree it's a tough call. I know lots of guys who live up there and start riding the trails when they are DRY, not when they are OPEN... I think Bob from Snyderville Basin is responsible for the trail system. He is a great guy! My guess is that if someone called him with up-to-the-minute trail status, he could remove the signs within a day or two. Bottom line is that it's not going to kill anybody to wait the extra 3-4 days or whatever it usually is before the signs are gone.

    But also, "dry" seems to be a relative term in the MTB community, lots of people ride "dry" trails and leave tire marks in the "dry" soft areas more commonly known to others as "not dry"

    JMH

  16. #16
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    The issue is one of respect. If MTB'rs really want a leg to stand on when trail closure / access issues arise then it's imperative that the community has a history of respecting the land management. Riding closed trails is exactly the type of ammo used to restrict access.

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    Rode the south side, switchback side, mon & tues. it's dusty dry.
    Saw several riders (3) Mon & (4) Tues, summit from the north side, fork and seat stay arches packed with mud.
    Please respect the trail and other trail users. NUF-SED

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    I am going to get **** for this, but the whole 'not riding trails when they are wet is B.S'. especially in Utah; I'll tell you why. If a trail gets too dry before people ride it, it is going to turn to dust and be that way all season. That is going to create a lot more problems for the trail in the long run, erosional or otherwise.

    When you tell people to stay off trails when they are wet that creates a problem in that only a few people ride the trail because they are trying to be 'good', especially in a place where people try especially hard to be 'good', like Utah. But one or two people inevitably do ride the trail anyway, and then they leave a rut. So in the end you have a dry dusty trail with ruts in it.

    Ask yourself, why does Utah have so many dusty trails with ruts in them?

    No the best thing for a trail, in Utah, is for lots of people to ride it when it is wet.
    Riding trails when they are 'moist' is good for the trails because it packs them down and makes them hard and smooth. This will get rid of the dustiness and smooth out the 'ruts'

    Utah is full of far too many people who get off on passing judgement and controlling other peoples behavior, and this 'stay off wet trails' crowd is no exception. So I am going to flip the bird to all of you self-righteous, controlling, 'stay off wet trails' people right now and tell you that you are wrong.

    That is all. Have a nice day.
    Last edited by AMMAROO; 05-21-2008 at 11:05 PM.

  19. #19
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMMAROO
    Ask yourself, why does Utah have so many dusty trails with ruts in them? No the best thing for a trail, in Utah, is for lots of people to ride it when it is wet.
    Riding trails when they are 'moist' is good for the trails because it packs them down and makes them hard and smooth. This will get rid of the dustiness and smooth out the 'ruts'
    Nice Budweiser Land Management theory. Do you set the wet concrete of a driveway by driving back and forth on it? No, you let it dry and it creates a smooth, hard surface. Everyone has ridden wet trails and caused ruts before, but only a moron keeps doing it on a regular basis.

    JMH

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    Ask yourself, why does Utah have so many dusty trails with ruts in them?


    Uh....because it's a friggin desert! +1 moron.

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    I think it is entirely fitting that you added the exact amount of self-righteous condescension to your post. Nice job!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMMAROO
    When you tell people to stay off trails when they are wet that creates a problem in that only a few people ride the trail because they are trying to be 'good', especially in a place where people try especially hard to be 'good', like Utah. But one or two people inevitably do ride the trail anyway, and then they leave a rut. So in the end you have a dry dusty trail with ruts in it.
    While Iím not sure it was worded perfectly, I actually agree with SOME of this. I think that the point that EVERYONE will never follow the rules is valid (especially when enforcement is non-existent). Even if most of us do, a few (which on some trails can be 10-20 people) will ignore the policy of not riding on wet trails. In some areas this means some pretty bad ruts will develop.

    In the worst case, if many people ride the trails when they are very wet (even sloppy) they become a deep trench as seen on the back side of Glenwild. That is very, very bad IMHO. Just as bad as dragging brakes in steeps and creating a trench and or braking bumps. ( I will say that I think dragging brakes is as much a function of trail design as poor skill by the rider Ė if itís that steep, it needs to be built out of materials that will last and not become 8Ē of powdered sugar in 2 weekends, but thatís another issue)

    I confess, last weekend, I rode an un-named trail which was marked closed. I rode it with the intent on needing to either walk or even ride back if I could not ride through without damaging the trail. It turned out that there was one small (<10 foot long) damp area and while I could leave a track, I couldnít actually dent the trail much at all. It was tacky, not wet. I actually think, riding a trail in this state can be good for compaction of the very top layer. Like tamping a dirt jump. Also, if some one had ridden the trail earlier when it was truly wet, this is the last chance to smooth out the rut, before it fully dries. Shaping and packing a completely dry trail isnít very effective.

    With all this in mind, I feel like there is an ideal time which is when the masses should start riding a trail. I donít think damp is the same as wet, and Iím sorry but I donít think people inspecting a trail that is marked closed is a crime (legally, itís not in most cases). Since I have no roll is actual enforcement of this issue, Iím going to take the idealistic view and plead with people to just use good judgment and always try to leave the trail in as good (or better) shape when you leave. Please donít do anything that could widen the impacted area, trench it, or create a rut.

    All this is pretty moot at the moment, since none of us should be riding anything that isnít pavement, sand, or gravel with the current weather. I think the most valuable point Iíve seen in this thread is that people should not go online and post to the world that they rode trail X despite it not being ready for larger crowds because that is what posting online brings.

    Peace and happy riding!!

  23. #23
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMMAROO
    I think it is entirely fitting that you added the exact amount of self-righteous condescension to your post. Nice job!
    Sorry, man. I call it like I see it.

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    You don't have to apologize for being yourself.

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    hey guys

    take a three week vacation (From ireland) each year to the states and always factor in at least a week in park city. flying dog in excellent trail really enjoyed it last year. keep in good shape for me for the visit in august.

    stay fast

    mark

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