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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I was searching helmets and came across this thread. After a messed up face from a crash I'm in the same boat. I don't think I'll be able to ride without a full face helmet.
    OP my question to you is do you think the Archi would be good for XC riding? I'll be getting a true downhill helmet for lift assisted riding.

    Attachment 822127
    If you are riding aggressive dh track, I suggest to get a dedicated fullface helmet. However if you are riding aggressive trail/enduro I highly recommend the Urge Archi-Enduro, because it is much breathable than dh full face helmet, especially if you climbing long steep hill.

    The urge-Achi-enduro has less protection in frontal crash compared to proper dh full face, but I really like this helmet because it is much cooler to wear, lighter than my Bluegrass Brave Mega Full face helmet.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Thanks for the input. After posting I continued my research and I found this MIPS | Take a look in the latest issue of Popular Science
    You may want to take a look. At this point I think I'll be looking for a MIPS equipped helmet despite the cost. Only have one brain.
    Cheers! ...I totally agree with you on MIPS. As was discussed earlier in this thread (there was a similar article in Bicycle mag), there's a growing body of evidence that suggests that it's the rotational forces on your gray matter that play a big role in concussive injuries.

    I really wish more helmet mfg's would get on board with MIPS-type systems. I've had several crashes now where I've ended up in an MRI machine for a brain scan. Indeed, the concussion associated with this crash did an interesting thing: after 17 years of riding with my left foot forward, I got back on the bike last fall to find I favored my right foot. Almost exclusively. A crash about five years ago left me with a helmet split in two and no memory for twenty four hours. Scary shi!t.

    I've been looking high and low for a MIPS-equipped FF with better ventilation. The POC Cortex DH MIPS -- the only FF I know of with MIPS -- is a H-U-G-E helmet, and not at all appropriate for everyday trail usage. The moment someone makes something analogous to the Pearl with MIPS is the moment the Pearl goes in the trash. Like you said: one brain, lots of riding years (hopefully) left.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprungShoulders View Post
    I've been looking high and low for a MIPS-equipped FF with better ventilation. The POC Cortex DH MIPS -- the only FF I know of with MIPS -- is a H-U-G-E helmet, and not at all appropriate for everyday trail usage. The moment someone makes something analogous to the Pearl with MIPS is the moment the Pearl goes in the trash. Like you said: one brain, lots of riding years (hopefully) left.
    Same here, so far the 2 FF helmets with MIPS I found don't have ASTM 1952. I didn't see anything about chin bars in the other certs. Maybe I missed them.
    I got a non answer from POC on the Cortex. In case you're interested here are the emails:

    Me:
    "After injuring my face recently in a mountain bike crash Iíve been researching full face helmets and Iím very interested in your helmet since it one of a very few full face helmets that includes MIPS.
    That said, in my research I also have seen full face helmets that have failed and it appears the best guarantee on the chin bars is to make sure the helmet meets ASTM F1952. I donít see that listed for your Cortex model.
    Do you plan on having the helmet certified as a downhill helmet in the future?"

    Poc:
    :I have asked our product team on your Inquiry. Please see below.
    ĄItís really easy to make the safest helmet on the planet, just add ten centimeters or why not fifty centimeters of foam to the helmet Ė problem is no one would buy it. Therefore, any helmet is a compromise between function and esthetics. Luckily, there are certifications that state the minimum performance for a helmet, so any helmet on the market will at least perform this well. However, as we know that many crashes involve forces way higher than the certifications state, and the more we look into the levels of our pro athletes, the more horrified we get over the incredible forces in some high speed crashes. This is why we make sure that we have a big margin to the allowed levels on all our helmet. Once we have managed to reach a satisfactory level of shock absorption we can focus on other important features. On some helmets we add further protective features, on others we focus on increasing ventilation or decrease weight.

    When a new product is developed we consider the different certifications needed for that particular productís use. We very rarely upgrade certifications post introduction, not because we think they wouldnít pass them, but because there are numerous certifications out there, which cost quite a lot of money and that arenít necessary for the use Ė they are rarely, if ever, required for competitions etc. The Cortex DH helmets are certified to the standards EN 1077B, EN 1078, CPSC 12.03. These are the standards we have found relevant among the many different existing certifications and as of today, we have no plans to get them certified for more standards. I hope this answer helps!Ē

    I sent the same email to Sweet Protection asking about this helmet: Sweet Protection | Helmets
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprungShoulders View Post
    Cheers! ...I totally agree with you on MIPS. As was discussed earlier in this thread (there was a similar article in Bicycle mag), there's a growing body of evidence that suggests that it's the rotational forces on your gray matter that play a big role in concussive injuries.

    I really wish more helmet mfg's would get on board with MIPS-type systems. I've had several crashes now where I've ended up in an MRI machine for a brain scan.
    Jesus. Has the thought ever occurred to you to slow down, or to consider a new sport?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by colinl View Post
    jesus. Has the thought ever occurred to you to slow down, or to consider a new sport?
    LOL. As a matter of fact, yes. And I finally listened to myself.

    I've actually spending far more time on unicycles and trials bikes than on MTB's. And when I do head out for a mountain ride, I usually choose a hardtail (Stanton Slackline) over my FS. It forces me to slow down, choose better lines, and generally be a bit more...restrained. And as a side benefit, I find I'm actually having more fun.

    @TwoTone: thanks for echo'ing the response you got from POC! ...As worthless as it was. I'm very interested in what Sweet says. Their carbon MIPS FF is extremely compelling... Well, it would be if you could get one outside of Europe.

  6. #56
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    I was just curious because I rode motocross from age 5 to 17, including some racing, and sporadically from age 27 to 33, and I've never had a brain scan after any 2-wheeled crash. I have definitely broken ribs because motocross bikes landing on you hurts a lot worse than a MTB.

    But I also know the difference between trail riding, practicing, and racing. If you race there's a tendency a lot of people have to see red, and do things way beyond what they'd ever do in a non-competitive ride. If you're one of those people, at some point it's better to not race than to keep risking serious injury.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    But I also know the difference between trail riding, practicing, and racing. If you race there's a tendency a lot of people have to see red, and do things way beyond what they'd ever do in a non-competitive ride. If you're one of those people, at some point it's better to not race than to keep risking serious injury.
    Indeed. After five years of XC and then ten of DH racing, I sold my DH race sled this spring. Done.

    Let the fun commence.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    I was just curious because I rode motocross from age 5 to 17, including some racing, and sporadically from age 27 to 33, and I've never had a brain scan after any 2-wheeled crash. I have definitely broken ribs because motocross bikes landing on you hurts a lot worse than a MTB.

    But I also know the difference between trail riding, practicing, and racing. If you race there's a tendency a lot of people have to see red, and do things way beyond what they'd ever do in a non-competitive ride. If you're one of those people, at some point it's better to not race than to keep risking serious injury.
    ER treatment has changed now compared to back then. My crash, they wouldn't let me ride the bike patrols gator down, Neck brace, back board- the whole nine yards. The hospital did a scan and xrays.

    I think too many people have been sent home in the past to die later from a brain injury no one suspected. Concussions/TBIs are taken much more seriously now.

    After my helmet research, it saddens me to think there is something like MIPS out and yet not making it into kids football, hockey etc.. helmets most likely due to liability and old standards.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprungShoulders View Post
    LOL. As a matter of fact, yes. And I finally listened to myself.

    I've actually spending far more time on unicycles and trials bikes than on MTB's. And when I do head out for a mountain ride, I usually choose a hardtail (Stanton Slackline) over my FS. It forces me to slow down, choose better lines, and generally be a bit more...restrained. And as a side benefit, I find I'm actually having more fun.

    @TwoTone: thanks for echo'ing the response you got from POC! ...As worthless as it was. I'm very interested in what Sweet says. Their carbon MIPS FF is extremely compelling... Well, it would be if you could get one outside of Europe.
    Here is the answer from Sweet:
    "Hi Rob.

    We are working with just that but it will be a while until its finished. Maybe for summer 2015.

    Regards Andrew"

    At least someone is working on one, right now it's disappointing because I need a helmet now and any of the choices is a compromise in one area or the other.
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Here is the answer from Sweet:
    "Hi Rob.

    We are working with just that but it will be a while until its finished. Maybe for summer 2015.

    Regards Andrew"

    At least someone is working on one, right now it's disappointing because I need a helmet now and any of the choices is a compromise in one area or the other.
    Indeed! Their comment was 1000x more helpful than POC's....even if the actual news it carried was somewhat disappointing in terms timeframe.

    ....Yeah, ER's don't mess around anymore. If it's deemed likely you hit your head hard enough to see stars, you'll end up in an MRI machine. Period. Brain injuries are tricky. It's possible you could walked out of the ER feeling just peachy, and drop dead twelve hours later from a brain hemorrhage. Pretty sure that's something a hospital wants to avoid at all costs; an MRI is due diligence.

    In my crash which resulted in memory loss/impairment, the ER doc kept me for ~8 hours for observation. Then she made sure I had someone to wake me up every hour or so during the night. To make sure I did wake up in the morning... That was one long arse day.

    I actually think it'll be kids contact sports that will help drive evolution/advancement in helmet design and cert. If there's one thing that'll get monolithic entities to move rather quickly in the direction of change, it's the insinuation that our children are at risk...risk that could be attenuated by moving protective gear out of the 1960's.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Jesus. Has the thought ever occurred to you to slow down, or to consider a new sport?
    No $hit....I've still not found any helmet that protects against stupid.
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    No $hit....I've still not found any helmet that protects against stupid.
    Everytime you throw a leg of a bike it's a calculated risk. I don't care if you're riding to the grocery store or rolling the dice down Flying Monkey. Sh!t happens, and that sh!t may have absolutely nothing to do with stupid.

    Wanna talk stupid? How about Strava- and Enduro-tards turning every trail ride into a race, regardless of time, place or conditions. Wearing goddam goggles with a half-shell lid must be cutting off the circulation to their frontal lobes. ...Not to mention impairing their fashion sense.

    But, I digress...

  13. #63
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    Another very cool system for controlling rotational inertia of the brain is being done by a new MX helmet company called (6D Helmets). They're a bit on the big side (even for an MX lid), but I've heard firsthand accounts of crashing in them and feeling that the impacts were far less than with other helmets. It seems like a bit more 'reusable' MIPS system, rather than a one and done type deal. It would be cool if someone like TLD were to come up with a smaller, lighter system like that.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by charging_rhinos View Post
    Another very cool system for controlling rotational inertia of the brain is being done by a new MX helmet company called (6D Helmets). They're a bit on the big side (even for an MX lid), but I've heard firsthand accounts of crashing in them and feeling that the impacts were far less than with other helmets. It seems like a bit more 'reusable' MIPS system, rather than a one and done type deal. It would be cool if someone like TLD were to come up with a smaller, lighter system like that.
    As pointed out before, those are MX helmets not bikes. I would welcome more choice in bike helmets.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by charging_rhinos View Post
    Another very cool system for controlling rotational inertia of the brain is being done by a new MX helmet company called (6D Helmets).
    That's really cool! Thanks for the link/info. ...I think we're kinda on the cusp of some tangible improvements to the safety of helmets. It might take a few years, but it seems like inertia is headed in the right direction....

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprungShoulders View Post
    Everytime you throw a leg of a bike it's a calculated risk. I don't care if you're riding to the grocery store or rolling the dice down Flying Monkey. Sh!t happens, and that sh!t may have absolutely nothing to do with stupid.

    Wanna talk stupid? How about Strava- and Enduro-tards turning every trail ride into a race, regardless of time, place or conditions. Wearing goddam goggles with a half-shell lid must be cutting off the circulation to their frontal lobes. ...Not to mention impairing their fashion sense.

    But, I digress...
    Some folks are just "crashers". After 30+ years in the moto-world, 15 of it on roadrace tracks for a living, I've learned/observed that some riders are just piss poor risk managers and/or gamblers. I guess stupid per se, might be a bit harsh..but its sure not smart.

    Sh#t almost never "just happens" unless its an equipment failure. My worst crash ever was on Goose, I came hauling ass over a drop and some azzwipe had installed a cheater feature. it was ...how shall we say...spectacular. I made a wager that the trail would be as it always had been the previous 100+ times I'd ridden it. It was a solid wager but as we all know...every now and then a long-shot comes in.

    We place ourselves into situations and take risks based on our situational awareness and our past experience (success/failure ratio).We then use this perception/calculation to wager on a successful outcome based on our experience and personal tolerance for risk vs reward.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    No $hit....I've still not found any helmet that protects against stupid.
    Or any keyboard for that matter.

  18. #68
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    just an FYI on the 661 comp shifted, had a crash with almost the same result. only difference was my lip didn't get split. take a lot of thought in to what helmet to buy, I didn't and luckily came out ok buy would've have been better off with a little research.

  19. #69
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    Whenever I ride trail I wear FF...I have a carbon sisxsixone and I'm used to it.

    Personally I find it hilarious that people who wear shin guards won't wear FF.

    I find that the more protection I have the harder I can go.

    As for how you look...who gives a ****?

    Wear what makes you feel comfortable...as far as I'm concerned it's up to you...

    As for FF getting too hot...you get used to it.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryantenglish View Post
    Whenever I ride trail I wear FF...I have a carbon sisxsixone and I'm used to it.

    Personally I find it hilarious that people who wear shin guards won't wear FF.

    I find that the more protection I have the harder I can go.

    As for how you look...who gives a ****?

    Wear what makes you feel comfortable...as far as I'm concerned it's up to you...

    As for FF getting too hot...you get used to it.
    Yup! Agree 100%.

    I do find that wearing a full face and pads scares some non-biking trail users, though. So I make a point to stop and be friendly, just so they know I'm not going to eat their children and/or pets.

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