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  1. #1
    rpalmer
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    Corner Canyon Conditions

    How are conditions up Corner Canyon? It looks like pretty much all of the snow is gone but I'm thinking there's probably a good amount of mud. Anybody been up there lately?

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    It's muddy up there. Please don't ride until its all dried out
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  3. #3
    rpalmer
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovemtnbiking View Post
    It's muddy up there. Please don't ride until its all dried out
    Two questions, one, have you actually been up there or are you just guessing?

    Two, why do you think I was asking? Did you think I was going to be like "yeah its muddy sweet I'm going to go up there and ride it while its muddy so I can piss off the don't-ride-when-its-muddy brigade"?

  4. #4
    Swimming thru the Smog
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    I think its so funny how pissed people get about mud. While I lived in PA mud was part of riding almost all year, so many ppl here **** their pants over it being a little wet. I say if you want to pedal thru 5 inches of mud, be my guest.

  5. #5
    rpalmer
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    I didn't want to turn this into a debate over the ethics of riding in the mud. Conditions vary from year to year and I doubt that there are any trails anywhere right now that don't have a patch of mud on them here or there. Its ridiculous to think that someone is going to show up ready for biking, find a small patch of mud five miles into the ride, and then turn around and go back so he doesn't carve a harmless little rut. I simply do not enjoy riding in soggy mud conditions and I want to know, if I show up at Corner Canyon this weekend am I in for a slog-fest? In which case I will not go. If there is a patch of mud here and there then you people need to relax and find a way to deal with reality. I can't think of many trails that are ever "fully dried out".

  6. #6
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    Funny that this thread just got started, I was going to post about this.
    Went up yesterday and rode the BST from the church on 120th South. First interesting thing was that someone had pulled a ton of rock and burned logs onto the short down then up section just north of the Cherry Canyon Logging Trail sign. Someone definitely did not want people there, but it wasn't a proper closure so I cleared it all up.
    Then I rode the dirt road up to Ghost Falls stopping at both trail heads, top and bottom, to see if there were any posted closures - there were none. I started down Ghost Falls and right off the top when you hit the woods, some a**hole chained a large section of chain link fence to some trees and blocked the trail. No warning signs, no closed sign prior, and no orange flagging or something on the fence to bring attention to it, because it blended in pretty well (and it was an overcast day). Anyways, I walked the trail for a while and all of the big mud holes that were there 2 weeks ago were dried up. Completely. The trail is beat up but still very rideable and not that bad considering the damage people had already done 2 weeks ago (and that includes horses and hikers). At the bottom, the bridge that connects the North Loop to the trail at the falls had a chain across it with a lacquered piece of wood and a laminated piece of paper that said "Trail Closed". That looked more professional, but still. Went to Draper City Trails website afterwards and couldn't find any info on closures, so I may call today.
    Whoever put that up, be it a concerned trail user or the city, is an a**hole. The upper closure is very dangerous. Maybe I'm extra anal because my old boss/friend was a company risk manager and my company/the industry I worked in got sued for that sort of thing a lot, but that was complete BS and someone will probably get hurt.
    As far as the other trails go, I'm not sure. Clarks is always muddy the longest because it is north facing and the most protected, the others not as bad but I find Ghost Falls dries out the quickest.
    There you go, a long answer to a short question...
    I'm kinda pissed, if you couldn't tell...

    Edit: I have no problem with the people who are in charge closing a trail properly. I that's fine and I respect that. This non-sense isn't stopping people, though. I saw plenty just climbing over that stuff.

  7. #7
    rpalmer
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    Quote Originally Posted by parmerma View Post
    I'm kinda pissed, if you couldn't tell...

    Rightfully so! You should be pissed! Either some hippie vigilante is putting up dangerous barriers or the trail managers are closing off trails improperly. That is messed up. Do you have the phone number? If you post it, I will call too and complain. I bet we could cause a pretty good stink. I have no problem with them closing the trail when they need to, but they need to do it safely and responsibly. And if it was a vigilante the barriers need to be taken down.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by parmerma View Post
    Funny that this thread just got started, I was going to post about this.
    Went up yesterday and rode the BST from the church on 120th South. First interesting thing was that someone had pulled a ton of rock and burned logs onto the short down then up section just north of the Cherry Canyon Logging Trail sign. Someone definitely did not want people there, but it wasn't a proper closure so I cleared it all up.
    Then I rode the dirt road up to Ghost Falls stopping at both trail heads, top and bottom, to see if there were any posted closures - there were none. I started down Ghost Falls and right off the top when you hit the woods, some a**hole chained a large section of chain link fence to some trees and blocked the trail. No warning signs, no closed sign prior, and no orange flagging or something on the fence to bring attention to it, because it blended in pretty well (and it was an overcast day). Anyways, I walked the trail for a while and all of the big mud holes that were there 2 weeks ago were dried up. Completely. The trail is beat up but still very rideable and not that bad considering the damage people had already done 2 weeks ago (and that includes horses and hikers). At the bottom, the bridge that connects the North Loop to the trail at the falls had a chain across it with a lacquered piece of wood and a laminated piece of paper that said "Trail Closed". That looked more professional, but still. Went to Draper City Trails website afterwards and couldn't find any info on closures, so I may call today.
    Whoever put that up, be it a concerned trail user or the city, is an a**hole. The upper closure is very dangerous. Maybe I'm extra anal because my old boss/friend was a company risk manager and my company/the industry I worked in got sued for that sort of thing a lot, but that was complete BS and someone will probably get hurt.
    As far as the other trails go, I'm not sure. Clarks is always muddy the longest because it is north facing and the most protected, the others not as bad but I find Ghost Falls dries out the quickest.
    There you go, a long answer to a short question...
    I'm kinda pissed, if you couldn't tell...

    Edit: I have no problem with the people who are in charge closing a trail properly. I that's fine and I respect that. This non-sense isn't stopping people, though. I saw plenty just climbing over that stuff.

    Wow! You need to seriously chill out. Your chain link mayhem is the way they've closed the trail for years. If you want to lose your mind again, you can go check out it's matching mate at the top of Clarks. The chains and laminated signs on the lower trails are new this year because too many people, who think they know better, have been riding the trails and rutting them up. I don't care if you used to ride on the moon. Those of us who have ridden here significantly longer than you know that if you ride these trails when they're wet, the ruts set like concrete and tend to make the rest of the year pretty miserable. If you think you're holier than the rest of us, go ahead, be a big man, climb over the closures. Then you can come back here and ***** when the trails are closed for good.

    Grow up.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Code Runner View Post
    Wow! You need to seriously chill out. Your chain link mayhem is the way they've closed the trail for years. If you want to lose your mind again, you can go check out it's matching mate at the top of Clarks. The chains and laminated signs on the lower trails are new this year because too many people, who think they know better, have been riding the trails and rutting them up. I don't care if you used to ride on the moon. Those of us who have ridden here significantly longer than you know that if you ride these trails when they're wet, the ruts set like concrete and tend to make the rest of the year pretty miserable. If you think you're holier than the rest of us, go ahead, be a big man, climb over the closures. Then you can come back here and ***** when the trails are closed for good.

    Grow up.
    Amen.
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  10. #10
    Swimming thru the Smog
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    Quote Originally Posted by Code Runner View Post
    .... the ruts set like concrete and tend to make the rest of the year pretty miserable..
    Seriously?

    When the time comes that you hit that 3/4 inch chain on an unmarked closed trail at full speed, I will not judge you while I'm treating your fractured neck, mandible, nose, skull, and brain hemorrhage or concussion.

  11. #11
    rpalmer
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    I had a fantastic ride up there yesterday afternoon and there was no mud whatsoever on the trails that were open. I rode up from the Rodeo grounds to where Clark's Trail starts, and I was disappointed to see that it was closed. Unlike others ahead of me, when I got to the closed sign, I turned back and caught the open portion of the Ghost Falls trail and took it right up to the falls, where it was closed as you cross the bridge and go into the trees. I yelled at two bikers ahead of me who had ignored the sign.

    Seriously, whether you agree with the mud thing or not, as a community we need to respect the rules or we are going to have privileges taken away from us.

    I didn't enter from the top so I didn't see any shoddy barriers on the trails. I can see how it would be possible for people to get into closed areas from the top without knowing they are in closed areas, and the trail managers need to do a better job so nobody gets hurt.

    After my Corner Canyon ride I went over and caught Anne's Trail to see if it was muddy or not. I rode through the first big hollow and it was excellent, nice and tacky. Perfect for riding. The second hollow -- not so much. There were still some hard-packed spots of snow on the trail and some sections of runoff making for some deep mud. Since I don't enjoy cleaning mud out of every joint on my bike I turned back after seeing the mud was not likely to end any time soon. I'd guess it needs one more week of 60s and 70s and sun to be enjoyable.

    I almost didn't go because a certain lover of mountain biking responded to my first post by stating as fact in no uncertain terms that it is muddy up there. Well, I had a fantastic ride and encountered very little mud (only on Anne's Trail, not even near Corner Canyon) and only rode trails that are open. In the future, please don't speculate as fact and ruin everybody else's good time. You're not doing anyone any favors.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Code Runner View Post
    Wow! You need to seriously chill out. Your chain link mayhem is the way they've closed the trail for years. If you want to lose your mind again, you can go check out it's matching mate at the top of Clarks. The chains and laminated signs on the lower trails are new this year because too many people, who think they know better, have been riding the trails and rutting them up. I don't care if you used to ride on the moon. Those of us who have ridden here significantly longer than you know that if you ride these trails when they're wet, the ruts set like concrete and tend to make the rest of the year pretty miserable. If you think you're holier than the rest of us, go ahead, be a big man, climb over the closures. Then you can come back here and ***** when the trails are closed for good.

    Grow up.
    Learn to read. I said I have no problem with closures, just the way it was erected with absolutely no warning to those who haven't been riding there as long as you, oh great one. Not everyone has been around as long as you, and they might hit a nice galvanized immoveable object at a great speed that they didn't know was there. Now said rider sues, wins, and the trails close for good. I've seen it many times before. That's my only issue, a fairly significant safety issue.

    Quit embarrassing yourself and read more carefully. Had you read my post, you would also already know that I didn't ride past the gate, just investigated on foot.

    Now grow up and have a ride on the moon. It's nice.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpalmer View Post
    Two questions, one, have you actually been up there or are you just guessing?

    Two, why do you think I was asking? Did you think I was going to be like "yeah its muddy sweet I'm going to go up there and ride it while its muddy so I can piss off the don't-ride-when-its-muddy brigade"?
    I

    I was polite and said "please". Don't let some appropriate concern ruffle your feathers
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpalmer View Post
    I had a fantastic ride up there yesterday afternoon and there was no mud whatsoever on the trails that were open. I rode up from the Rodeo grounds to where Clark's Trail starts, and I was disappointed to see that it was closed. Unlike others ahead of me, when I got to the closed sign, I turned back and caught the open portion of the Ghost Falls trail and took it right up to the falls, where it was closed as you cross the bridge and go into the trees. I yelled at two bikers ahead of me who had ignored the sign.

    Seriously, whether you agree with the mud thing or not, as a community we need to respect the rules or we are going to have privileges taken away from us.

    I didn't enter from the top so I didn't see any shoddy barriers on the trails. I can see how it would be possible for people to get into closed areas from the top without knowing they are in closed areas, and the trail managers need to do a better job so nobody gets hurt.

    After my Corner Canyon ride I went over and caught Anne's Trail to see if it was muddy or not. I rode through the first big hollow and it was excellent, nice and tacky. Perfect for riding. The second hollow -- not so much. There were still some hard-packed spots of snow on the trail and some sections of runoff making for some deep mud. Since I don't enjoy cleaning mud out of every joint on my bike I turned back after seeing the mud was not likely to end any time soon. I'd guess it needs one more week of 60s and 70s and sun to be enjoyable.

    I almost didn't go because a certain lover of mountain biking responded to my first post by stating as fact in no uncertain terms that it is muddy up there. Well, I had a fantastic ride and encountered very little mud (only on Anne's Trail, not even near Corner Canyon) and only rode trails that are open. In the future, please don't speculate as fact and ruin everybody else's good time. You're not doing anyone any favors.
    I'm so glad you were able to get that off your chest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by While At Rome View Post
    Seriously?

    When the time comes that you hit that 3/4 inch chain on an unmarked closed trail at full speed, I will not judge you while I'm treating your fractured neck, mandible, nose, skull, and brain hemorrhage or concussion.
    I know the spot you're talking about quite well cause it's been used as the formal closure for many years as others have said. It's at the start of a blind corner, so you should be slowing down anyways or you could hit someone walking up, although I can't lie and say I've never pinned it through there, I shouldn't be doing so. A bright sign or multiple signs up trail probably should be installed to avoid liability and that would be a constructive comment. I agree that better controlled trail access is the future cause users don't self regulate well. The BST above the ave's is trashed from all user groups refusing to self-regulate and will once again have permanent deep ruts all year long that could be avoided with proper trail management (which costs money).

    As for the rock and debris up north on the BST, probably from one of the property owners that still doesn't want his property used as a trail. Not 100% of the BST is on public land. I know some property owners have resisted. Many years ago there was sharp rods sticking out in the trail, so the debris sounds better than that What's silly is there is a law in place that makes it so they can't be sued for injuries sustained on the trail, UNLESS they alter the trail by creating a hazard.

    I'm of the opinion that while locals being overprotective of their turf can sometimes go way, way over the limits (ie. surf spots where people assault outsiders)...what I've seen here is appropriate and if it makes some people who think they can do whatever they want think twice, all the better. After all, deterring users through online forums is pretty low impact...If you can't take it, stay off the web

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    You guys have some wacky trail politics going on down in Draper, gotta say.

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    rpalmer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    You guys have some wacky trail politics going on down in Draper, gotta say.
    I gotta agree. You don't see this kind of craziness elsewhere. I lived in Northern California for two years. If the trail is open to bikes, ride it whenever you want, right?! Nobody cares about mud out there. Bikes go through all year and smooth out the ruts when the trail is dry. I've never seen anybody so uptight about riding mud as they are in Draper. Funny thing too, because the horses go through there and rough up the trails way worse than bikes.

    That said, rules are rules and I'd rather see the trails OPEN with rules than closed, period, so like em or not we need to obey them and not ride closed or muddy trails up there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    You guys have some wacky trail politics going on down in Draper, gotta say.
    And you've got bad ruts in your over IMBA manicured trails up your way J...and a continual war over the b-sled

    I came from both SoCal and Michigan, both recovered much faster from ruts created during muddy times...as in days or weeks rather than months that we see here. Horse owners are a protected minority, didn't you know rpalmer

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpalmer View Post
    I didn't want to turn this into a debate over the ethics of riding in the mud.
    Why not? This place is getting a little stale....a good old fashioned argument could be just what the doctor ordered!

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    Quote Originally Posted by phatfreeheeler View Post
    And you've got bad ruts in your over IMBA manicured trails up your way J...and a continual war over the b-sled

    I came from both SoCal and Michigan, both recovered much faster from ruts created during muddy times...as in days or weeks rather than months that we see here. Horse owners are a protected minority, didn't you know rpalmer
    Months?! C'mon dude. Weeks, maybe.

    Either way, the runner footprints are way worse up here. Apparently trail running is the new favorite sport of SLC, and all of them have discovered the upper sections of the BST. And not ONE of them gives a rat's as*s about running in muddy conditions.

    But I'll take the trail conflicts on northern SLC BST over getting bi*tched out by the trail guy in Draper for riding down Ghost Falls "too fast", a.k.a., completely in control. /siderant

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    I just want to say that if people are going to close trails in Corner Canyon area and actually want people to obey them a simple "last updated on: Month, Day, Time" note on the closure sign would go a LONG WAY.

    I also agree with Summit on the fact that the ruts/holes created by trail runners on the avenues BST sections are absolutely ridiculous.

    In other news, I rode Jacob's Ladder today for the first time. Wow, can't believe I hadn't been up there before. That trail is super fun!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpalmer View Post
    I gotta agree. You don't see this kind of craziness elsewhere. I lived in Northern California for two years. If the trail is open to bikes, ride it whenever you want, right?! Nobody cares about mud out there. Bikes go through all year and smooth out the ruts when the trail is dry. I've never seen anybody so uptight about riding mud as they are in Draper. Funny thing too, because the horses go through there and rough up the trails way worse than bikes.

    That said, rules are rules and I'd rather see the trails OPEN with rules than closed, period, so like em or not we need to obey them and not ride closed or muddy trails up there.
    It's not craziness to want to have rut free trails. I'm from northern California and some trails are closed entirely during winter even though it may be in the upper 60s for weeks at a time. Moreover, they have rangers with radar guns that issue speeding tickets to mtn bikers in some trail networks. So to say Utah is uptight and crazy when it comes to trail governance is "crazy". The municipalities in utah are some of the friendliest towards mtn bikers. There is way more damage done to trails in corner canyon by mtn bikers riding when trails are wet than by horses.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Either way, the runner footprints are way worse up here. Apparently trail running is the new favorite sport of SLC, and all of them have discovered the upper sections of the BST. And not ONE of them gives a rat's as*s about running in muddy conditions.
    Whats funny is the trail damage on 90% of the BST ISNT from bikes, its from hikers/runners.

    I was up on ensign peak descending the switchbacks side and damn near hit 2 trail runners going uphill side by side on the single track going pretty damn fast. Trail running is fun but seriously they are by far the worst population of trail users as far as etiquette is concerned. If you see more tire tracks than shoe prints on the damn trail AT LEAST run single file in the blind spots.

    ...my 0.02

  24. #24
    JMH
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    Good trail closure signs at primary intersections are a requirement if you want to keep people off. I don't blame anyone for not recognizing the pathetic efforts of the land manager when the official closure looks a lot like debris strewn around the trail. And I too have noticed that runners ARE far, far more impactful around here than early season riders. The last few seasons you can't even get a good, deep rut forming without the herd of elephants trampling everything flat again after a few days.

    From reading these enthusiastic debates on MTBR one might get the impression you would meet dozens of eager riders turning out for trail maintenance days to fix trail. It's not like I put in colossal hours but in the few days a year I show up I've never seen that. Maybe it's different down South.

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    I haven't been out to Corner Canyon but around the Dry Canyon and above the Orem race course area there sure are some huge potholes created by horse hooves. Not really any ruts to speak of, if any. I don't ride in the mud, but I find it funny how up in arms some mountain bikers get about mud when one or two horses do the damage of 200 bikers. Thats all i have to say about that.

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