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  1. #1
    resident dumbass
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    Sherman Jumper vs Gold Label?

    I've been wondering for a while now,
    What are the differences (other than weight) between a Sherman Jumper and a Gold Label II? Is one any better than the other, or are they the about the same, or what?

    Another reason I was wondering other than pure curiosity was (if you didn't know) starting late next summer (with the help of a couple different jobs) I was planning on starting a slow build-up (and purchase) of a frame I designed, and one of the forks I was considering was a Sherman Jumper, and since those are becoming hard to find, I wanted to know if I should go ahead and grab one before it gets too late.

    Yes, I'm aware I just got a bike, but this other one wouldn't be ready to ride for about 2 years from now. I'm keeping my bruiser once I finally finish the custom bike, unless it breaks, slapping some gears on it and turning it into a huckable commuter bike.
    I'm out of things to say . . .

  2. #2
    Portland, OR
    Reputation: todd_freeride's Avatar
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    by then you'll just want a different fork anyway. but the shermans were great, love mine.
    [SIZE="4"]Ibex bikes[/SIZE]

    2007 Ibex Trophy SS
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    2006 Ibex Zone FR-1
    2004 Special-Ed P.2 A.1

  3. #3
    resident dumbass
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    Sherman is one of a few that I've decided are the right size for the frame (or can be adjusted to the right size (80mm)) and that aren't too much money (500ish). On my list is a DJ2, Gold Label 2, and a Sherman Jumper, which is about extinct, so if the fork is a heck of a lot better than a Gold Label (I know it's better than a DJ2), I think I should pick it up ASAP.

    I know the Sherman goes for more, but it's being sold at Cactusbike.com for $500.
    I'm out of things to say . . .

  4. #4
    Meh.
    Reputation: XSL_WiLL's Avatar
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    I love Manitou and all, but 500 is way too much for a Sherman. 200 USD tops. Find a used 2003 Firefly with TPC+ dampening (not TPC). Those were the very best. Urban camo gives you additional steeze points.

    Forget Marzocchi.

    Rockshox Argyle is the way to go for a dedicated dirt jumper.

  5. #5
    resident dumbass
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    I don't see your big stink about marzocchi in general! It does what it's supposed to do, and pretty darn well depending on your budget (eg: if you can afford a modded Z1 freeride). They make good XC forks, atleast. Maybe they screwed up on the Dirt Jumpers after 2003, I don't know.

    I really don't want to go used on my next fork, because I'd like to get something really nice brand new for once.

    an argyle is pretty sick, but too big for my frame. It's built for an 80 mm fork max. Check out the current plan, and see what I mean.

    What has anyone to say about a Gold Label? Are they worth the money? I kinda want a white fork anyway . . .
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    I'm out of things to say . . .

  6. #6
    mtbr remember
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    $500 for a Sherman?!?!? HAHAHA!!! man, they are discontinued, no longer produced.
    Even gold labels, which I would consider nicer, are going for cheap these days, around $300...

    I don't know how serious you are about your "custom project" going on, but why not just have brad throw on a slammed Z1 for you in your current dream state... that would go down to 65. hey, we all dream about the no holds barred bike, right?
    Schralp it Heavy.

  7. #7
    resident dumbass
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    I'm serious! A Z1 costs too much, anyway. I just realized this frame wouldn't work too well: you couldn't ever sit down pedal. You'd be scrunched up into a ball.

    I finally get that 500 is too much for a sherman, you don't have to reiterate that anymore.
    I'm out of things to say . . .

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyharry
    I'm serious! A Z1 costs too much, anyway. I just realized this frame wouldn't work too well: you couldn't ever sit down pedal. You'd be scrunched up into a ball.

    I finally get that 500 is too much for a sherman, you don't have to reiterate that anymore.
    ummm well they make these really cool things called quick release seat post clamps so you can, like adjust your seat height VERY easy. you might want to look into on of those but you better hurry because they stopped making them in 2003 so they are getting harder to come by new and they are only $499.00 so not to worry.

  9. #9
    Meh.
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    You can find plenty of Shermans in like new or new condition.

    The Argyle is set at 100mm, and has a fairly low axle to crown height, probably lower than a lot of Marzocchis with less travel.

    My Pike is shorter than my Drop-Off Comp. And the DOC was a 130mm fork.

    Marzocchi is overpriced and overhyped. I've broken three of the four Marzocchi forks that I've owned. Not a single one has been warrantied. SSV dampening blows, HSCV hardly impressed me. They're tall, they're heavy, and they're not even that stiff.

    2004 and 2005 DJs especially are outrageous heavy.

  10. #10
    I post too much.
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    I've liked every single marzocchi that I've felt, and have never heard of one breaking around here.

  11. #11
    JMH
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    Used Sherman

    I am not a Manitou fan, but I have to admit that the Sherman Firefly I picked up used for $125 has been great. TPC+ works great, camo looks sweet... the travel mod that Will explains in other threads is bulletproof and simple. Plus at that price you don't mind doing a bunch of mods to it. I wouldn't dream of forking out $350+ for a fork and then chop it all to hell, but that's just me.

    JMH

    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    You can find plenty of Shermans in like new or new condition.

  12. #12
    Meh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    I am not a Manitou fan, but I have to admit that the Sherman Firefly I picked up used for $125 has been great. TPC+ works great, camo looks sweet... the travel mod that Will explains in other threads is bulletproof and simple. Plus at that price you don't mind doing a bunch of mods to it. I wouldn't dream of forking out $350+ for a fork and then chop it all to hell, but that's just me.

    JMH
    They're very easy to work on. You can change the shimstack around to give it a completely different feel.

  13. #13
    resident dumbass
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    I've decided a Gold Label is the way to go. Pricepoint sells a Gold Label 2 for 350, new!

    An argyle, regardless of crown to axle height, is too much suspension for the frame.

    Merkyworks (yeah right, my LBS sells quick-release seat-post clamps cheap), by jacking up the seat, the whole idea behind the frame is defeated. It's meant to be crazy, CRAZY low standover and clearence (or just crazy low standover if you're doing barspins(with seat brought up to give your legs something to grab onto)). Here's the revised version: doesn't look as clean, but gives you some room to sit on the ride home. I forgot to adjust the seat stays for this, by the way.
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    I'm out of things to say . . .

  14. #14
    Meh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    I've liked every single marzocchi that I've felt, and have never heard of one breaking around here.
    Look more closely. Lots of crown/steerer assemblies worked loose or creaky. Cracked crowns, cracked arches, cracked dropoouts, and bent steerers. Many of these were/are common problems. You'll really feel the SSV/SSVF dampeners working once you ride more aggressively. It's not smooth. And it's very spikey over the fast closely spaced stutters.

    I think the 2006 Marzocchis are probably the best I've seen from them thus far. Least amount of problems. Cut down on weight, cut down on height, etc.

    dirtyharry, the thing about QR levers was SARCASM. And you don't seem to grasp the idea of axle to crown heights or suspension. You have a much more thorough understanding than you did when you first joined MTBR, but for now, best not speak when you have no clue.

    I think I've seen Argyle's for 399.

  15. #15
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    well at least will got it....

    and after your revision to the frame geo. dirtyharry, well.....does anyone else think that it now looks like a evil imperial or even more like a addits cycles frame. so custom

  16. #16
    resident dumbass
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    I see where you say it looks like an imperial or an addict cycle frame now, but I hope you believe me when I say those had NO influence on the design. Also, my design is made of Cr-Mo. Imperials and Addicts are made of aluminum. And, neither the Addict or the Evil have the BB dip my frame does.

    I do have an idea of crown-to-axle whatever, and yeah, I guess an argyle could fit with one low enough. I've seen Argyles for 320ish, but they're the 302's. If I buy an argyle, I want the 409! I'll have to look into that . . .

    Will, when I said "too much suspension" I meant "too much suspension." I really don't want to run more than about 80 on the frame. Though, if I can find a good price on a white 409, ooh . . . Tough choice.

    This topic really went off faster than I expected. I kinda went off-topic. I honestly really just wanted to know if a new (or near-new) sherman is better than a new Gold Label, and if I should grab a new sherman when I've got some dough. That's been answered, in roundabout way . . .

    Although, now that I've posted, any feedback on the overall look of the frame?
    I'm out of things to say . . .

  17. #17
    Meh.
    Reputation: XSL_WiLL's Avatar
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    I think your logic is stupid.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
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    Whos going to build this frame for you?
    woooooooooo

  19. #19
    mtbr remember
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevorh
    Whos going to build this frame for you?
    I've heard rumors that dirtyharry's associated agency has been collaborating efforts with a private firm from Denmark that only does extremely specialized and innovative projects. They've been known to have dealt with NASA, Ferrari, and even the pirates of the carribean among others. Some lesser-informed laymen may know them as Lego. damnit, I need to stay away from this computer.... it's frickin' rainin' out....
    Schralp it Heavy.

  20. #20
    resident dumbass
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    Nemesis is. What logic, will? I have no logic . . . Atleast nobody understands the logic I do have. . .
    I'm out of things to say . . .

  21. #21
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    thats like a crazy person saying that everyone is crazy and they are the sane one. hahaahh

  22. #22
    resident dumbass
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    um, you haven't posted anything worth reading in this topic yet. OH well, forget it, you all don't really care at the moment. I'll just post stuff when I'm actually going to get the frame built within the next month or too.

    Will, I've been thinking over what you said, and I've got a question: Do you actually KNOW the crown to axle on an Argyle? It would be helpful if you told me. Right now the frame's designed around a 455 mm crown to axle.
    Last edited by dirtyharry; 09-17-2006 at 11:18 AM.
    I'm out of things to say . . .

  23. #23
    I post too much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    You'll really feel the SSV/SSVF dampeners working once you ride more aggressively. It's not smooth. And it's very spikey over the fast closely spaced stutters.
    I'm very aware of that, hence why I would never take my dirt jumper 3's to a downhill course. Hydraulic lock is not something very nice to have in those conditions. But for the type of riding I do, which consists of relatively hard and very spaced out hits(jumping and some urban mixed in there) SSV is plenty fine for me. I'm still getting a pike along with the nemesis, but it's to cut down on weight and have more adjustability.

  24. #24
    Meh.
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    AtoC height of a Pike at 95mm is roughly 475mm. No figures released on the Argyle, but it should be lower. 2006 DJ3 at 100mm is approximately 485mm.

  25. #25
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    well, if you seriously thought about buying a sherman jumper for $500, you will be sorely ripped offf. i am picking one up soon for $120 used. and a nemesis tuned z-1 sport at 65 or 80 mm will cost you $500 as well. keep your bruiser for 4 years, ride it till it dies, and in he meantime, build up a bike. my brother rode his for 4 years, and nothing bent or broke on the frame. if you dont like the bike, then why did you buy it in the first place? an you probably dont want something with that frame youlike, like a black market riot, r a nemesis project. learn how to ride on your bruiser, then once you master what you need to know, shop around for a new bike. you know i rode that p.2 for 3 years with stock parts, you don't need a custom bike to get good, buy a lowering kit, adjust your geometry and you'll be set. or i'll sell you my bike. think about it if you want to spend a ton of money on a bike you probably won't like after about a year. give it some time bro, and think if you want to buy custom and learn on that, or buy a durable bike that will last you while you learn. no use thrashing a nice bike because you can't ride. if you know what i'm saying. calvin sold his nemesis and bought a usb because he didnt want to wreck a really nice frame in his learning curve, so he bought a beefier bike with less stuff to break. 14mm spaced, 110 axle and v brakes is the way to go, why do you think im sellin my bike and buying a geekhouse. end of story, sorry my rant is so long. cheers

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