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Thread: Progress

  1. #1
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    Progress

    Hi Guys,
    I started machining the Cru drop outs today, and they went well. I can't add the stay angles ( cut outs ) until I know the geo of the kinked seat tube where the stays connect.We'll find that out when I start to jig up the frame.
    Tomorrow is D-Day for my frame jig. If the guy adapting it for purging steel is not done, I'm bringing it home anyway.
    I should have done that myself , but I've been too busy. Live and learn.
    Hang with me, it's about to get interesting.
    Rick.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for the update!

  3. #3
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    nice! I wanna see the kinked seattube.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  4. #4
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    i wana see the drop outs...that was a sweet idea to go with those, good job cru

  5. #5
    Rollin' twenties.
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    sounds good

  6. #6
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    Pics!! We want pics!! But rick, so far, have you decided upon a geometry? Or do you still need our help to ponder that?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by free rider
    i wana see the drop outs...that was a sweet idea to go with those, good job cru
    Wait til you see how the disc mount relates to the axle.
    It's an obtuse triangle that can rotate around the c/l of the skewer and be put anywhere around the axis. We could mount the caliper upside down.
    It's sick.
    RTW.

  8. #8
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    Holy crap, I just noticed this project. I can't wait to see the results!

  9. #9
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    Man, I am stoked, completely stoked, like all the way to hell and back stoked. To see this bike built up, and to see it being ridden.

    IMPORTANT MESSAGE TO RICK: Requierement to get the bike: digital camera, I want action pics of it too! :P

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    Pics!! We want pics!! But rick, so far, have you decided upon a geometry? Or do you still need our help to ponder that?
    You'll have pics. I threw out some numbers in the moment thread, but nothing is in stone.
    Your ( snaky ) pm was helpful.
    I have some good reason's for my numbers, which I'll share with pic's and quotes.
    Just remember, no cookies.
    Unique, or nothing. I can't stress that enough.
    RTW.

  11. #11
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    rick, whats the deal with this thing? are you giiving ita way when you're done or what? i havent noticed this whole hread thing till yesterday and was wondeing how it works.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for the update, Rick! Sounds good!!

    Let's have a discussion on the BB height. It looks like most people, including myself, have suggested a BB height of 11 to 12 inches. I currently ride a 26 with about a 12" BB height and I love it.

    However, I'm having 2nd thoughts. I had a conversation with Alain from Dobermann Bikes the other day and he got me thinking. He says what riders love most about their frames is the unique geo and the secret to that is the BB height. They actually have a 15 mm rise on their BB, so that makes a height of about 13.6 inches with 26" wheels. He says it really helps hopping and spinning on the bike. And, it makes it feel more like a BMX frame, as most BMX bikes have a slight BB rise. That's one of the goals, right? A dirt jump/park/urban MTB should feel like a BMX.

    I think we equate a low BB to a lower center of gravity. A lower BB may help stability at high speed and it might also help with balance while manualing. But, I'm not trying to win any races or wheelie contests on this thing. I want to do tricks!!! You know, I think trials guys prefer a higher BB because it makes it easier to do tricks... and they seem to balance just fine!!

    So, any thoughts on this? Anbody have experience riding a dirt jump/park/urban MTB with a higher BB? And, don't worry, I won't be disappointed if we still decide to go low. I just wanted to throw this out there to get your thoughts. Ride on!!!
    Last edited by Cru Jones; 09-14-2006 at 04:17 PM.

  13. #13
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    That's actually something we should consider Cru, I think you may be onto something.

  14. #14
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    yeah, Cru, always got your head gears spinning.... I like it. but, I don't really know... I had no clue the dobermann's had such high bb's... what fork a2c was this based on?
    the bb height on my FR/slope bike is like 14"! but that's got 4" of travel in the back, the dobermann has none... bmx bikes do have a rise, but they only have 20" tires! I don't know with 26ers... I can't say though, I've never ridden a setup like you mention. My 24" bike has 11.3" bb height and I like it. your argument sounds interesting though.... I just want to know what fork was on this dobermann that you got your numbers from. maybe it just had a tall fork? or they were contemplating designing the frame to work with a short rigid fork... haha, sounds almost like the height of a bmx cruiser that you took and put a susp. fork onto.
    anyway, at the moment, I'd put my money down on like a 12.5" bb height for a 26'er... that way, if 24's ever did go on, it should still be pretty comfortable.

    RTW, another idea for the frame (a little late since you apparantly already machined the dropouts), but, the frame could be made like a hybrid of the Quamen Emo dropout system (bolt on and interchangeable), and the Trek 10" DH frame (forgot the name) where you can adjust bb height and head angle by moving the dropouts sections up or down in a predrilled area on the main part of the frame.... anybody get the idea of what I'm saying? I could explain further... this would look frickin' sick with those Cru style drops! and also solve our compromises between bb height and head angle numbers by making them adjustable for each person's style...
    Schralp it Heavy.

  15. #15
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    It think it's too late for that Bikesatori, maybe if rick ever makes another one, he might incorporate that idea.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    It think it's too late for that Bikesatori, maybe if rick ever makes another one, he might incorporate that idea.

    yeah, I gotcha, probably.... but rick did say he's only machined the drops, not attached or welded them to the stays yet... so.... could just drill some holes, but that would require machining separate parts for the stays and bolts to go as well.... just imagine how short the stays would look like that though! that would be a trick set-up.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  17. #17
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    Yeah, but if he drills too much won't that affect overall strength?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    Yeah, but if he drills too much won't that affect overall strength?

    yes... ? but what do you mean too much? you only drill as much as you need for a proper bolt assembly... and, first of all, we don't even know exactly what the machined parts look like, I was just guessing. for some reason, in my head, I just pictured Y-shaped tabs, where the welding to the stays would occur, but maybe they aren't big enough to drill and tap...
    I should have also posted a pic of the original "Cru's" on here too just for example, but couldn't find the source....

    just an example:

    now, the triangle formed by that shown machined area is much larger and probably stronger than what would be if rick were to rig and improvise just what I mentioned in the above post, but it was just an idea... then, either by having two holes on the machined part of the main frame, you could have adjustability that way (although quite drastic), similar to how the Trek Session10 and others work... or, if a variety of replaceable dropouts were cnc'ed like that, in different shapes, you could alter the geometry that way, or even have different axle options.... just some thoughts, maybe on the next round of mtbr build'er up...
    Schralp it Heavy.

  19. #19
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    I can't see all of the connections between the dropouts and the frame, but I'd have second thoughts on removable dropouts.

  20. #20
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    BikeSATORI, I'm not sure what size fork the numbers are based on. But, a +15 mm BB height is what is listed on their website. I found a pic with Gold Labels and it looks to have a little rise from the axle height. There are other pics with other forks on their website, too. Alain (one of the owners) was telling me that they have purposely designed a higher BB than most DJ/Park/Urban frames. So, I don't think it's just from a tall fork.



    Yeah, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Some of the tricks that are notoriously difficult on a MTB have to do with the height of the top tube (can-cans, turndowns, lookbacks). By raising the BB, you're effectively lowering the TT height while you're standing on the pedals. And, have you ever compared the height from the BB to the top of the handlebars between a 20" and 26? That distance on my 26 is about 4" more than my 20. Yeah, it's a bigger bike, but I'm not a bigger rider when I'm riding it!!

    So, anyway, does anyone have experience on a Dobermann or another 26 with a higher BB? We don't have to try this on this frame. I plan on a Dobermann being my next frame... so, I'll let you know how it goes!!

  21. #21
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    Just got home from machine shop, Jig will be ready tomorrow morning @ 8:30 am pst.
    Cru's are done, and ready, and very sick.
    It's getting close.
    RTW.

  22. #22
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    i think the higher bb would be really cool
    so would the hybrid dropouts

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickthewelder
    Just got home from machine shop, Jig will be ready tomorrow morning @ 8:30 am pst.
    Cru's are done, and ready, and very sick.
    It's getting close.
    RTW.

    Just got call from machinist @ 8;40 am, he had a guy leave early last nite and all is done except bb spud, he claims he's trying to get a guy to come in now and finish it but thats probably BS.
    I offered to go finish it, and he said no. So, most likely Monday.
    Theres not much I can do about it.
    Here are pics of the drop outs.
    I'll keep all informed.
    Rick.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  24. #24
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    geez those things are beefy...i like the "oldschookwelding" stamp in the middle of the right one in the first pic...haha
    www.transitionbikes.com

    "The journey of 1,000 miles begins with one step" -Bear Grylls

  25. #25
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    very sick! cant wait to see this baby!
    woooooooooo

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