Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 210
  1. #1
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356

    ok, so you got a beef with weight weenies?

    First of all, I'll just comment on the fact that I've just been noticing (ongoing since joining mtbr) the ridiculous hate towards these claimed and coined "weight weenies".... seriously, what is the deal? is it just part of the American underlying ideals that some were brought up with, that MORE is automatically better, or somehow more masculine as well? garbage if you ask me...
    the entire point of this thread I'm putting up here is the fact that I've always been into checking out new parts that are hitting the market or being designed, but I have been very intrigued with the BMX parts in particular. (this may end up being a long post, but I just feel like ranting on these thoughts and ponderings, sorry for drawing it out).

    Anyway, this year, among others, it seems that the BMX'ers, 99% of pros and manufacturers included, are the BIGGEST "WEIGHT WEENIES" of them all right now! and I DIG it!
    these guys are taking what they like (not necessarily what we like) from each aspect of biking, and using it in their advantage, and shredding! urban/dj/park mtb'ers are just struggling to keep up with the stuff they throw down on their simple "little" bikes.
    For the first example, take a look at Tree Bicycle Company. They have some super innovative parts coming up, which all started with their very light and simple sprocket a few years ago (even evil4BC had them custom make him one for a 9-spd chain, which I drooled over quite a bit) Tree:
    - Bar-ends that thread into tapped handlebar bores, so simple and strong, why not?
    - 1 piece steerer preload bolt and top cap combined. why are ours separate pcs?
    - and best of all, what I'm looking at picking up next, is their "Lite" sprocket that doesn't use a bolt to attach to the crank-arm, but is machined with a 48spline pattern to connect and mate up directly to your spindle! SICK. so light and machined out, the I-beam machining on those is just pure art!!!! but of course, still tough.
    - they also have some sick new hubs coming out.
    http://www.treebicycleco.com/newspg.html - look around, nice stuff. man, can't get over the art and function all combined up in that Lite sprocket...
    photo courtesy of their site... check it out, sweet stuff.

    And, speaking of hubs, the bmx SS cassette hubs with 1-pc drivers (optional ti too) are amazing, so simple, awesome direct engagement, and still half the price of ridiculous chris blings. not saying they are light though, but still.... better than a nashbar SS hub, haha.
    Next, I would just like to mention the Macneil Seat and post innovation, that is just so simple and light why wasn't it thought of earlier, man.... I like that one too.
    Take a look at Eastern bikes too, first with the Harvester, now the Grim Reaper and some others... These are "speed-hole" drilled out to the max! and integrated seatpost clamp too. oh, whose using that now? oh, hey, it's blackmarket on the mob. not that it hasn't been used for like 30 years on old bikes too, but who brought it back?



    http://www.easternbikes.com/ - just go to "frames" tab, and look at the grim reaper. The grim reaper even has more cut-out sections. hey, my frame isn't under warranty, since it was a proto anyway, I've thought of attempting some sort of speed hole wizardry myself. maybe over winter.

    Take note, current bmx'ers also have no shame in rocking the integrated headsets which 99% of the mtb world shunned as a roadie part and horrible on top of it, including the notorious chris bling! (they just want people to cater to them and their perdido shict) now look whose using it, oh, mtb'ers! after watching bmx convert almost immediately.
    Next comes the Spanish BB, which, in fact was designed by bmx'ers. just press it in! simple and light, yet again, hey, now mtb is using it, which makes me glad to see.
    Now, also, I have been seeing some pros who have actually been drilling out their rims, like Trials riders. here, we have suspension, and we're all worried about taco'ing a rim cuz our diameters are so huge, so we need more beef, etc... but, then they guys take theirs and drill out unnecessary metal.... and still are landing like 10ft drops to flat on cement. very interesting.... speed holes strike again!
    here is a link to one example of a "weight weenie" bmx rig:
    http://www.simplebmx.com/bikecheckmitchsite.htm - just note his drilled rims!

    Now, look at this guy's bike:
    http://www.simplebmx.com/bikecheckjimmysite.htm
    Check out his hubs. hard to tell to most, but the guy actually cut down his heavy 14mm rear axle, drilled it out on each end, then tapped it so he could eliminate using heavy bolts and the extra axle sticking out. similar to "fun bolts" idea front too.
    He also went through the trouble to shorten his crank spindle to cut even more weight.
    somewhere else on that simplebmx site one of the guys took the already "slim" seat of theirs, and shaved out most all of the padding, then stapled the covering back over it. extreme, I've seen it on others bikes too, like eddie cleveland's for example.

    check the Odyssey Wombolt cranks on this, as well as the Odyssey Elementary stem. Also, that is one sweet downtube, look at that crease, I dig it... 41thermal processed tubing on that sunday as well as the cranks. and, another thing I liked about it, they are using the Vermont sprocket with integrated bash, but it is mounted backwards to conventional, smooth IMO. logically, you would put more weight on stalls or sprocket grinds on the inside of the chain, not outer...


    pic courtesy of sunday bmx's site.

    another popular mod is to drill out their seatpost and seatpost clamp with speedholes, and some grind off the excess dropout material too. Man, this is mostly all just custom experimental work too. Heavy use of titanium is also very popular, just to drop weight even further, and hollow chromo stem bolts...

    anyway, those are just my examples, and of course "my" opinions, pretty obviously biased in one way or another, so take them how you will. At least take into account what I've mentioned, and think about it next time you call a poster a "weight weenie" for getting 1.95 krad tires instead of some sweet 2.5 hookworms or something.... you have your susp. fork, big wheels, etc. and think you need all the gussets possible on your frame, then just take a look at what's being done in bmx these days... rad.

    lets hear what you think.... if you're too lazy to read the entire thing, no worries, at least click on the links and look at the pics, haha....
    Last edited by BikeSATORI; 11-10-2006 at 09:05 PM.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: free rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2,393
    i cant read.....


    holy **** long post

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    47
    Thats a really good post. My bike wieghs 27 lbs and it throws down great for urban, park, trials, bmx track. Good race bike too. I'm to old to huck around a heavy bike anymore.

  4. #4
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by turrick
    Thats a really good post. My bike wieghs 27 lbs and it throws down great for urban, park, trials, bmx track. Good race bike too. I'm to old to huck around a heavy bike anymore.
    hey, thanks for reading! yeah, 27 is pretty light for a 26" street bike, unless it is aluminum or very high grade 4130, and/or rigid (no susp. fork)... also, "too old" is a very relative term, haha. what is ironic is the fact that once you get to the stereotypical "too old" phase, most people have health insurance, but just don't want to "huck". But, the young guns, are all out there hucking it no worries, regardless of health insurance, haha....
    Schralp it Heavy.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: free rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2,393
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    hey, thanks for reading! yeah, 27 is pretty light for a 26" street bike, unless it is aluminum or very high grade 4130, and/or rigid (no susp. fork)... also, "too old" is a very relative term, haha. what is ironic is the fact that once you get to the stereotypical "too old" phase, most people have health insurance, but just don't want to "huck". But, the young guns, are all out there hucking it no worries, regardless of health insurance, haha....
    or live in canada and dont need to worry about health insurance....just go out and huck!

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    741
    I haven't weighed my DK Dayton, but the websites say it weighs 33 lbs. OUCH!! Thats pretty damn heavy. I'm trying to figure out how to get it down to about 27-28lbs. My guess is lighter wheels, tires, seat, bars, etc. Hopefully its not the frame thats HEAVY.

  7. #7
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    My goal for my Nemesis Project: Reach 30lbs, or under. My 416 is currently at 33lbs. And I think I know just where I'll lose the weight.

    I'm ditching the dj3 for a Pike
    Ditching the front MTX for a Pimp with torque nips
    Might ditch the bashguard, it hasn't seen any use all summer long.
    I'll use an actual singlespeed rear hub, that is not made by formula(so it isn't unessecarily heavy)
    Same goes for front hub
    Might switch to higher quality cranks, I'm thinking holzfellers or saints, mine are cr-mo 3 piece, but made by axiom(which means they are strong, but also WAY overbuilt.)
    I'm switching to lighter but grippier tires(arrow launch or dmr moto RT, maybe both)

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ebfreerider510's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,574
    just read the full post, very cool points for sure. i like the drilled rims. definitely a cool idea to save some weight. like i've said in a few of my other posts, im a total weight weenie no doubt! im even more of one then my dad who rides road i've done a few things to my bike to save weight and have some other ideas in the future.

    for one im going to convert my bike to SS as soon as possible, then possibly get a true SS rear hub. i got a saint crankset and took off the bash. i use a roadie seat, mite even get a lighter one in the future. my bike at the moment weighs in at around 32-33lbs which i was kind of bummed to find out, i thought it was lighter...(partly because it has slime in the rear tube). i want to get it down to 29-30 when i go SS and have a different tube in the rear. also new bars and stem will come soon which will hopefully help.

  9. #9
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,663
    Good stuff. I have been really surprised by the pro BMX street bikes I have seen or read about recently. They are all REALLY light compared to four or five years ago, but the tricks are bigger than ever. Go figure.

    I always tell myself that it's stupid to put Ti bolts on a stem when the bike weighs 30lbs, but I rationalize it and say it's so the bolts don't rust!

    I don't see the point (unless you are on a tight budget) in riding a bike that is way overbuilt for your riding style. Take cranks, for instance - I don't do drops bigger than about 4' when riding street, and my current setup handles crank stalls and missed bunnyhops just fine. If XC ISIS cranks can handle what I currently dish out, why go steel? If I eventually break something, I can put something stronger on.

    Good post.

    JMH

  10. #10
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    thanks for checking it out everyone.... still tons of other stuff to add actually, but I cut it off...

    for those looking at cranksets that are as strong as normal 3-pc. bmx, but lighter, check out (well if you have the cash, the Easter Titaniums, haha),
    the ODyssey Wombolt Cranks!!!!! Very very awesome. If I had a prob. with my wtp Royals, I'd be swapping them out right now. also, I see that atomlab has a hybrid bmx/mtb external euro bearing chromo crankset out now. I wonder how that is, looks very nice, as long as the spider is removeable.

    Snaky69, you will have no problem getting that NemPro under 30, those frames are light! I'm at 30, and that's with a frame weight of around ~6.2# (after grinding) and a Marz '06 DJ2. - Maybe you would want to go with a PimpLite in the front? the Pimp is heavier than the MTX I believe, and you really don't need anything that wide for street imo. take a look at the Wombolts!

    JMH, are you on some m750 xt cranks? I rocked those for quite awhile myself, painted them flat black after sanding... but I don't know what bb you are using, but mine cracked on the side with the fit on threads... cranks were not that bad though. Still have them laying around for another beater ss project.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  11. #11
    tuck-n-roll master
    Reputation: pavement_hurts's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    636
    Seriously BikeSATORI, how much caffeine were you on when you wrote that? Just kidding, but anyways I've noticed the trend too. Everybody likes a light bike, but I think the backlash is a result from the explosion in carbon products and all the roadie stuff stirred up by Armstrong. Being a weight weenie is one thing, and we're all guilty of it somehow, but counting weight in the tens of grams is ridiculous. That is just plain overkill. I've heard a few XC guys talk about how light their bike are but when you ask them how much they ride they kind of give an indistinguishable answer. It's become a bragging thing. As for my weight weenie issues, I plan on throwing out my dirt jam pro because that thing is simply a boat anchor.

  12. #12
    Cute as a Button
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    230
    I would say I'm a weight weenie, but don't think I really qualify. My ride is a Trek 8000 weighing in at 22lbs or less. That's pretty much as light as they get in mountain bikes, but I didn't change components solely based on which are the lightest.

    My choice of pedals for instance are the Shimano 959s. These are the best functioning pedals out there in my opinion (as a former ski mechanic) and I chose them while measuring them weight and function-wise against the Time ATAC and the Eggbeaters (both of which failed in my opinion).

    My saddle is a Bontrager Race-Lite with titanium rails and a gel dot. I could go lighter or I could have bought the BS about Body Geometry saddles (aint true, don't bother with 'em) which weigh a ton, but ended up with the saddle that fit me the best and provided the comfort difference of titanium (not to mention the overall quality workmanship of the folks at Selle San Marco).

    XT vs. XTR crankset? I went with the XT because it's functionally the same damn thing, only a pinch of sand heavier than the XTR, and priced much better (especially in Japan, where I bought it).

    I'd say I'm more a fan of the engineering than the weight, but weight certainly matters too. I just wouldn't make a performance or comfort sacrifice in the name of shedding grams.

    If you want to shed weight off your ride, start with the rider. If the rider isn't underweight, then don't bother with the trouble and expense of lightening the bike. Losing five pounds from the human body is far cheaper and easier.

  13. #13
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprocketeer
    I would say I'm a weight weenie, but don't think I really qualify. My ride is a Trek 8000 weighing in at 22lbs or less. That's pretty much as light as they get in mountain bikes, but I didn't change components solely based on which are the lightest.

    My choice of pedals for instance are the Shimano 959s. These are the best functioning pedals out there in my opinion (as a former ski mechanic) and I chose them while measuring them weight and function-wise against the Time ATAC and the Eggbeaters (both of which failed in my opinion).

    My saddle is a Bontrager Race-Lite with titanium rails and a gel dot. I could go lighter or I could have bought the BS about Body Geometry saddles (aint true, don't bother with 'em) which weigh a ton, but ended up with the saddle that fit me the best and provided the comfort difference of titanium (not to mention the overall quality workmanship of the folks at Selle San Marco).

    XT vs. XTR crankset? I went with the XT because it's functionally the same damn thing, only a pinch of sand heavier than the XTR, and priced much better (especially in Japan, where I bought it).

    I'd say I'm more a fan of the engineering than the weight, but weight certainly matters too. I just wouldn't make a performance or comfort sacrifice in the name of shedding grams.

    If you want to shed weight off your ride, start with the rider. If the rider isn't underweight, then don't bother with the trouble and expense of lightening the bike. Losing five pounds from the human body is far cheaper and easier.

    Hey I agree, function is ALWAYS the number one priority no doubt! not solely weight, that is not where my thread was directed, it was just to point out that losing weight is a main concern of the engineering and design standpoint, which I love to see all these little companies devoting themselves to (mostly always very rider driven as well).
    Sprocketeer, I'm not going to condemn, but I just think your ways stray a bit from those on this urban/dj/park board, but hey, it's all relative to the function of the bike, eh? In this post specifically, i was referring to the term and philosophy of "weight weenie" being used on a street, dirt-jump, or park bike though...
    btw- so, you spent some time in Japan? I've lived in Shiga-ken for awhile, as well as Osaka... travelled many other places too of course. will be returning there in the next couple of years or so....
    Schralp it Heavy.

  14. #14
    Cute as a Button
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    230
    Yeah, I know I'm out of place, but with Freeriders and All Mountain folks calling themselves 'true XC' riders, and me being once again an Urban XC guy (where my roots are anyway) upon moving back to the States and to NYC, I figure this might be my place at least a bit.

    Truth be told, I'd like to learn how to do a lot of the urban BMX technical stuff on a mountain bike. This can be done, right?

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ServeEm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    902
    BikeSATORI, I never noticed weight cautious people getting bashed. Now yea I've heard them being referred to as "weight weenies" but hell all included referred to themselves as a "weight weenie". With that said I don't see why one would take offence to a remark like that, if one was actually made. If I were one I would be a bit proud, being that passion for the sport drove me to these levels of shedding oz or lbs.

    Now you bringing up Tree Co., I love what they're doing to the bike industry. The splined sprocket is bad ass. Another product I don't recall you bringing up that I love is their front staggered hub allowing you to lace the spokes on the inside for grinding. Killer idea along with the rest of their lineup.

    A big thanks to you for shedding light on Eastern's frames. I haven't checked them out before but I love the drilled out Grim Reaper frame. Most likely my next frame purchase.
    BTW, is there any mtn bike frames out there that have drilled out frames?

  16. #16
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI

    Snaky69, you will have no problem getting that NemPro under 30, those frames are light! I'm at 30, and that's with a frame weight of around ~6.2# (after grinding) and a Marz '06 DJ2. - Maybe you would want to go with a PimpLite in the front? the Pimp is heavier than the MTX I believe, and you really don't need anything that wide for street imo. take a look at the Wombolts!
    I was also thinking of the Pimplite, my rear rims usually get way beat up that's why I went with the pimp, and the only reason i want a pimp up front is to balance tire width and rotational mass, I guess it's more of a looks thing than an actual need.

  17. #17
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by ServeEm
    BikeSATORI, I never noticed weight cautious people getting bashed. Now yea I've heard them being referred to as "weight weenies" but hell all included referred to themselves as a "weight weenie". With that said I don't see why one would take offence to a remark like that, if one was actually made. If I were one I would be a bit proud, being that passion for the sport drove me to these levels of shedding oz or lbs.

    Now you bringing up Tree Co., I love what they're doing to the bike industry. The splined sprocket is bad ass. Another product I don't recall you bringing up that I love is their front staggered hub allowing you to lace the spokes on the inside for grinding. Killer idea along with the rest of their lineup.

    A big thanks to you for shedding light on Eastern's frames. I haven't checked them out before but I love the drilled out Grim Reaper frame. Most likely my next frame purchase.
    BTW, is there any mtn bike frames out there that have drilled out frames?

    LIke I mentioned above, there was more stuff to add, but I cut it off....
    yeah, I didn't really go into the front BMX hubs since they really don't relate to the MTB area quite as much, and this is an mtb forum.... but, the EJECT Option hub is where it's at right now, we'll see what Tree comes out with next. I don't grind anyway, so I like to see alot of riders nowadays shedding their pegs for more flow and spin tricks...

    As far as I know, no, there are no mtb/bmx hybrid bikes that come already with "speed-holes" in them, that is why in that "Eastern26" thread I was pondering the question, when they will come out with the mtb version of the Grim Reaper.... I just might attempt it myself in some minor areas on mine over the winter here.... I won't even go near as extreme as the grim, maybe just a few carefully placed drill bits, haha.... (probably only seattube and bb shell) like I said, my current frame was a cheap proto, so no warranty, and I've already taken the die grind wheel to her in a number of places to chop stuff off and round it down....

    and I just noticed your post on the Solid big wheel offering... Never seen it, but I don't really doubt it. Volume has a 26"er, but it's a cruiser straight up, not really my thing. Too bad it's hard to find info on the BMX stuff from interbike. I really like to see all these other companies jumpin' on, just for the sake of a wider range of products out there, also shows some more open'mindedness just for the sake of riding and designing.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  18. #18
    Rollin' twenties.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,635
    sorry didnt read the hole post or all the comments ((way too much)

    but i think that eastern w/ all the cut outs is flatland, ive seen that before. ive heard of 24(ish) pound bmxs, but these guys run pegless brakless, and proby cut everythibg down, a bought ti stuff

  19. #19
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by aggiebiker
    sorry didnt read the hole post or all the comments ((way too much)

    but i think that eastern w/ all the cut outs is flatland, ive seen that before. ive heard of 24(ish) pound bmxs, but these guys run pegless brakless, and proby cut everythibg down, a bought ti stuff

    well, most of the high end Eastern completes (not flatland) all have cutouts, along with the integrated post clamp. Don't quote me on this, but right now, I don't think Eastern does much in the Flatland world anyway.... I could be very wrong.
    Jimmy Rostlund's Simple is around 22lbs.... not flatland.

    it's a shame more of you can't read it.... you're already sitting at your computer, what else are you going to do?
    Schralp it Heavy.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    741
    I've seen some of these BMX guys bunny hop obstacles that look to be 4ft tall. They gotta have a real lightweight bike to do that, right? Please tell me thats the secret, because currently I can only get my bike a few inches off the ground.

    I saw a video where Hamilton hopped over a tall railing, and another where he was riding a manual up to a railing and then hopped up over it from his back wheel. How the f*(&^*(^(*&*( does he do that. A light bike must help.!!

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Evil4bc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,161
    Well it should be no shock to anyone here that all the new Nemesis Project frames are designed to be as strong and as light as possible . We use the best materials True-Temper butted OX platinum !!

    My new 07 Streetfighter complete I built up to be tough but also to save weight in every area possible ,The parts spec was ment to compliment this way of thinking with the custom I-9 wheels Tree sprocket spanish B/B specific chainguide and new Nemesis sliding disk system . I also opened up the vent areas and used computer tested ovals instead of big hole saw cuts to take as much possible weight out of the inside tube are as possible . We also used thinner straight gauge heat-treated OX platinum chain-stays instead of thicker straight gauge 4130 material to save weight in the rear end .
    We also increased the dia of the seat-stays from 3/4 to 7/8 to improve the rear end stiffness after taking some of the wall thickness out .

    Funny that TREE bicycle co was mentioned in your list of companies that are pushing the limit of the weight vs strength game .
    After working with Sam on the sprockets for my bike and adapting them to work with our new chain-guide design . ( we also have a new one-piece bash sprocket with TREE pattern being made right now for the guide also )
    Sam from TREE came to us asking for some engineering help with the light sprocket pictured above , so were currently doing a full 3d solid model of the pattern trying to figure out how we can make Sam's original design lighter and stronger without compromising his design . We here at NP design are very honored to be working with Sam and TREE bicycle co on this project .

    This same type of thinking is what went into the development of our chain-guide .
    We have a few more products in the works which feature the light bmx type esthetic wile still using everything we have learned from our outside designs projects .
    Follow me on Instagram for up to date build pics -Brad4130
    Nem-Pro store
    Nem-Pro Blog

  22. #22
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil4bc
    Well it should be no shock to anyone here that all the new Nemesis Project frames are designed to be as strong and as light as possible . We use the best materials True-Temper butted OX platinum !!

    My new 07 Streetfighter complete I built up to be tough but also to save weight in every area possible ,The parts spec was ment to compliment this way of thinking with the custom I-9 wheels Tree sprocket spanish B/B specific chainguide and new Nemesis sliding disk system . I also opened up the vent areas and used computer tested ovals instead of big hole saw cuts to take as much possible weight out of the inside tube are as possible . We also used thinner straight gauge heat-treated OX platinum chain-stays instead of thicker straight gauge 4130 material to save weight in the rear end .
    We also increased the dia of the seat-stays from 3/4 to 7/8 to improve the rear end stiffness after taking some of the wall thickness out .

    Funny that TREE bicycle co was mentioned in your list of companies that are pushing the limit of the weight vs strength game .
    After working with Sam on the sprockets for my bike and adapting them to work with our new chain-guide design . ( we also have a new one-piece bash sprocket with TREE pattern being made right now for the guide also )
    Sam from TREE came to us asking for some engineering help with the light sprocket pictured above , so were currently doing a full 3d solid model of the pattern trying to figure out how we can make Sam's original design lighter and stronger without compromising his design . We here at NP design are very honored to be working with Sam and TREE bicycle co on this project .

    This same type of thinking is what went into the development of our chain-guide .
    We have a few more products in the works which feature the light bmx type esthetic wile still using everything we have learned from our outside designs projects .
    hey, glad to see you chime in here, as you are quite obviously more involved in the field than I... very interesting about the collaboration with Tree.... I'm hoping to get one in 25t if they hit by january...
    you wanna let me drill some "speed holes" in your streetfighter? c'mon, I'm real steady with this drill, hahaha... yeah right.
    did you ever put a chain on that bike yet?
    Schralp it Heavy.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Evil4bc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,161
    Quote Originally Posted by ServeEm
    BTW, is there any mtn bike frames out there that have drilled out frames?

    The new StreetFighter I built has much larger outer vent holes on the upper spreader similer to the speed holes on the grim reaper , what you coulnt see Saturday night is the size and way the inner vent holes on the 07" streetfighter are cut .
    Both at the seatpost/ toptube area and the tuptube/ headtube and downtube/ headtube junctions we used FEA softwear to product vent ovals that increse streangh wile still removing as much weight as a oversized very hole .
    Thes ovals work together with our gussetts to increse streangh and diapate stress from the tube joints to the butted section's of the tube .
    Follow me on Instagram for up to date build pics -Brad4130
    Nem-Pro store
    Nem-Pro Blog

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Evil4bc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,161
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    hey, glad to see you chime in here, as you are quite obviously more involved in the field than I... very interesting about the collaboration with Tree.... I'm hoping to get one in 25t if they hit by january...
    you wanna let me drill some "speed holes" in your streetfighter? c'mon, I'm real steady with this drill, hahaha... yeah right.
    did you ever put a chain on that bike yet?
    You cant see them now but the bike is filled with computer designed vent ovals to remove as much weight as possible without comprimising streangh .

    Yup ... had to do a bit of extra machine work to the upper lip to add some clearence .
    So I machined a 2mm tall keeping lip into the top edge too so the chain has no way of escapeing .

    Been riding the bike all weekend , even crashed Saturday night at mach 9 in some fish guts wile riding in the city and scratched up my Animal Hamiltons all up .


    Shino from Grindstate.com and i got to hang out yesterday and ride a bit , there's an interview on his site with me and some cool rideing pics .
    Follow me on Instagram for up to date build pics -Brad4130
    Nem-Pro store
    Nem-Pro Blog

  25. #25
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    For some reason that chain looks transparent in that pic Brad.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Evil4bc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,161
    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    For some reason that chain looks transparent in that pic Brad.
    New DuraAce plastic chain 1/2 the weight of normal metal ...lol
    Follow me on Instagram for up to date build pics -Brad4130
    Nem-Pro store
    Nem-Pro Blog

  27. #27
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    You need to tell me how those hold up to some serious torque. Add a half-link in there and it could very well become my chain on my new bike, it would probably scratch the paint a lot less if it were to slap agaisnt the chainstay.

  28. #28
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    You need to tell me how those hold up to some serious torque. Add a half-link in there and it could very well become my chain on my new bike, it would probably scratch the paint a lot less if it were to slap agaisnt the chainstay.

    I don't know if you caught it, but he was joking. it's just a 7701 xtr/duraace chain.

    are you running gears on yours, Snaky69? don't have to worry about chainslap on an SS, or do you get that on your norco?
    Schralp it Heavy.

  29. #29
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    I still have a rear derailleur and cassette, and I might use them if I go to whistler with the Nemesis next summer. But I plan on running it SS and keeping the derailleur and cassette hub on a seperate rim build for whisler, I think I have a set of rhyno lites lying around I could lace it to.

    And no I didn't catch it, I'm too absorbed in too many things to catch on to many things.
    Last edited by snaky69; 10-12-2006 at 04:47 PM.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Evil4bc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,161
    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    I still have a rear derailleur and cassette, and I might use them if I go to whistler with the Nemesis next summer. But I plan on running it SS and keeping the derailleur and cassette hub on a seperate rim build for whisler, I think I have a set of rhyno lites lying around I could lace it to.

    And no I didn't catch it, I'm too absorbed in too many things to catch on to many things.

    JEEEEEEZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz Satori why YOU hatin on Snaky like that
    Everyone's SO sensitive now ... what happened to the fun
    Follow me on Instagram for up to date build pics -Brad4130
    Nem-Pro store
    Nem-Pro Blog

  31. #31
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil4bc
    JEEEEEEZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz Satori why YOU hatin on Snaky like that
    Everyone's SO sensitive now ... what happened to the fun
    hey man, it just snowed on my little town. I'm pissed.
    no no, hahahah, just kidding, no beefs, no worries, I don't know where I came off edgy? wasn't hatin'.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  32. #32
    Premium Member
    Reputation: Ojai Bicyclist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,842
    I'm totally with you Satori. When I get my 24 I'm slowly gonna make it lighter and lighter as money allows.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Evil4bc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,161
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    hey man, it just snowed on my little town. I'm pissed.
    no no, hahahah, just kidding, no beefs, no worries, I don't know where I came off edgy? wasn't hatin'.
    Ahhhhhh hahahahahaha LOL J/K
    A little fun on the boards today brings a big smile to my face
    I went to the bike shop and weighed the new SF complete it came to 32.50 which on their scale means more like 32.0-32.25 lbs not bad for having the bones cranks with steel spindel , saint der and the chainguide which all arnt designed to be light in any way shape or form .
    Follow me on Instagram for up to date build pics -Brad4130
    Nem-Pro store
    Nem-Pro Blog

  34. #34
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil4bc
    Ahhhhhh hahahahahaha LOL J/K
    A little fun on the boards today brings a big smile to my face
    I went to the bike shop and weighed the new SF complete it came to 32.50 which on their scale means more like 32.0-32.25 lbs not bad for having the bones cranks with steel spindel , saint der and the chainguide which all arnt designed to be light in any way shape or form .
    heyheyhey, throw on a smile and it goes a mile... ended up a bit heavier than I expected actually, but you are running dual hydro brakes, among the geared setup and guide/bash....
    Schralp it Heavy.

  35. #35
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil4bc
    Ahhhhhh hahahahahaha LOL J/K
    A little fun on the boards today brings a big smile to my face
    I went to the bike shop and weighed the new SF complete it came to 32.50 which on their scale means more like 32.0-32.25 lbs not bad for having the bones cranks with steel spindel , saint der and the chainguide which all arnt designed to be light in any way shape or form .
    Remove gears, chainguide, extra links in chains, front brake, and switch to lighter cranks and you've got yourself one hell of a light street bike.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Evil4bc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,161
    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    Remove gears, chainguide, extra links in chains, front brake, and switch to lighter cranks and you've got yourself one hell of a light street bike.
    YUP .... If I ran it single speed and toook of the rear cog's , SAINT der , CHAINGUIDE , BONES cranks and the little stuff liek the front disk , PimpCaps and lockon grips , NYC stem all these parts are not light in any way ... but I wanted a bike setup pretty much the same as my last SF but a bit lighter in places .

    I should weigh my OLD streetfighter and see what that came in at I bet it's closer to 34-35 with regular 8 track wheels , heavy Z-1 , heavier frame , dh tubes etc

    To me my new bike is perfect ... not too heavy but also not so light that it runs away from you .

    I am also building myself up a new 24 deathmobile that is going to be jsut stupid new school light but I too am waiting for the new tree sprocket and a few other parts that are going to make that bike close to 20lbs
    Follow me on Instagram for up to date build pics -Brad4130
    Nem-Pro store
    Nem-Pro Blog

  37. #37
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil4bc
    YUP .... If I ran it single speed and toook of the rear cog's , SAINT der , CHAINGUIDE , BONES cranks and the little stuff liek the front disk , PimpCaps and lockon grips , NYC stem all these parts are not light in any way ... but I wanted a bike setup pretty much the same as my last SF but a bit lighter in places .

    I should weigh my OLD streetfighter and see what that came in at I bet it's closer to 34-35 with regular 8 track wheels , heavy Z-1 , heavier frame , dh tubes etc

    To me my new bike is perfect ... not too heavy but also not so light that it runs away from you .

    I am also building myself up a new 24 deathmobile that is going to be jsut stupid new school light but I too am waiting for the new tree sprocket and a few other parts that are going to make that bike close to 20lbs
    What are you doing posting on here anyways? Go weld damn you! J/K. Maybe next summer I could see if there is any way at all I could see that SF in person.

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    78
    on the mention of drilled rims...... anyone try/using trails wheels? the rims from viz are looking pretty sweet...

    i'm looking to build a new wheelset... came across these while looking for light weight anodized alum rims...

  39. #39
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by dhallilama
    on the mention of drilled rims...... anyone try/using trails wheels? the rims from viz are looking pretty sweet...

    i'm looking to build a new wheelset... came across these while looking for light weight anodized alum rims...
    I've never even heard of the company before. Try to find a rewiew through google. Otherwise, the only way to know would be to try it.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    42
    As a BMX'er, I hear what you are saying. I'm all for light bikes. Though I do think that the Grim Reaper is a bit of overkill.

    Now, this:
    http://www.bmx-forum.com/bike-checks...ed-raw-s3.html
    my friends, is the epitome of nice light bikes.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    I've never even heard of the company before. Try to find a rewiew through google. Otherwise, the only way to know would be to try it.
    they have a good following on the bike trials forums... supposedly hold up well to some pretty big drops. ~$55/rim isnt too bad... forget exactly, but think the 38mm eyeletted double wall is something like 480 grams...
    that, and they really are pretty pimp lookin...

  42. #42
    Crusty cyclist
    Reputation: americanethics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    58
    have you guys seen the new titanium grim reaper?
    http://www.grindstate.com/photo/grimreaper.jpg
    http://www.vitalbmx.com/index.php?op...=222&Itemid=32

    BikeSATORI, what frame is that eastern that you have some photos of there?



    ody plastic pegs? http://www.grindstate.com/photo/odypeg.jpg

  43. #43
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by americanethics
    have you guys seen the new titanium grim reaper?
    http://www.grindstate.com/photo/grimreaper.jpg
    http://www.vitalbmx.com/index.php?op...=222&Itemid=32

    BikeSATORI, what frame is that eastern that you have some photos of there?



    ody plastic pegs? http://www.grindstate.com/photo/odypeg.jpg

    hey, nice links. those pics I put up are of an old Harvester, from a year ago or so...

    in a dirt setting, I think these holes could actually end up being pretty detrimental to your headset and bb bearings, unless you clean them everyride... which I don't see as being very likely. But for a dedicated street or park bike (which still can get dirty) I think it's a great idea. very controversial issue though, as so many people are very skeptical. maybe just saran wrap'em or tape'em, haha....

    hey, has anybody else seen the Macneil Pivotal post/seat Wedge mod.? another somewhat controversial mod... at the moment, not really a weight saver, but a pretty good idea. Mostly for people who slam their seats all the way (might be great for urban trials too), and it allows you to cut off the extra seattube sticking up above the toptube, and you don't need a seatclamp. also, unless you can machine your own piece, it will only fit 1" or 25.4 seattubes (maybe a shim would work) I think Macneil might be working on a proto of something like this, but the only ones I have seen were homemade. This photo is from that bmx-forums.com site:

    if you're not familiar with how the original Pivotal system works in the first place, it might be sort of confusing...
    Schralp it Heavy.

  44. #44
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by dhallilama
    on the mention of drilled rims...... anyone try/using trails wheels? the rims from viz are looking pretty sweet...

    i'm looking to build a new wheelset... came across these while looking for light weight anodized alum rims...

    I've never heard of or used Viz parts. Look nice though, interesting cut-out shapes, but, the rims are much MUCH wider than I would care to use on my street bike. In trials, a square tire profile is desired, but I don't like it, I'd rather have round. I didn't have drilled rims on my Echo trials bike before I sold it, but a friend has some drilled Alex DX32's that are pretty nice. I think the shop he bought them from drilled them before building them up. He likes them, and hasn't had any probs, but I personally wouldn't use them for street.... they are 32spoke too...
    24Bicycles has pre-drilled rims out now as well, both a disc and a V-brake model, but I've never used them, or even seen one in person... Might only be available in europe at the moment, I'm not sure.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  45. #45
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    If 24's rims are as strong as their frames, drilling holes in them wouldn't be too bad.

  46. #46
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    If 24's rims are as strong as their frames, drilling holes in them wouldn't be too bad.
    well, they are pre-drilled directly from them... check out their site.
    but yeah, I get what you are saying, it's kind of ironic, since as long as I've known of 24B, they have always been about complete OVERKILL than anything else, not losing weight, haha....
    Schralp it Heavy.

  47. #47
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    I dig the porn king though. There's one in RAW at my lbs. Sweet bike. There are even lines graduated in centimeters to measure weiner size on the top tube(I'm not kidding, even the manual says so if I remember right, and I saw them first hand)

  48. #48
    Premium Member
    Reputation: Ojai Bicyclist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,842
    The ti Grim Reaper is so sick. That thing would probably spin sooooo fast.

  49. #49
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    With the right geometry, it probably would.

  50. #50
    Relax. I'm a pro.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,456
    I think that the Grim Reaper is both ugly and stupid. If you have to resort to cutting holes in a frame to save weight, you're not really putting in any effort to lighten a bike. Anybody can take a drill to his frame. S&M's Light As Fvck frame, on the other hand, is a great example of a well-designed and well-built super-light street/park/dirt frame.

  51. #51
    Premium Member
    Reputation: Ojai Bicyclist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,842
    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad
    I think that the Grim Reaper is both ugly and stupid. If you have to resort to cutting holes in a frame to save weight, you're not really putting in any effort to lighten a bike. Anybody can take a drill to his frame. S&M's Light As Fvck frame, on the other hand, is a great example of a well-designed and well-built super-light street/park/dirt frame.
    So, the Ti Grim Reaper has computer designed holes that won't affect strenth that are strategically placed. It would probably be like 3 pounds w/o holes. Yet they're not putting real effort into it? They're making it as light as possible. They're taking every measure they can, yet they're not trying? Right.....

  52. #52
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad
    I think that the Grim Reaper is both ugly and stupid. If you have to resort to cutting holes in a frame to save weight, you're not really putting in any effort to lighten a bike. Anybody can take a drill to his frame. S&M's Light As Fvck frame, on the other hand, is a great example of a well-designed and well-built super-light street/park/dirt frame.
    I agree, the LAF is a sick frame, but what sways your opinion to think that for some reason they put more "effort" into that frame? The LAF also has "holes" cut in her, or did you not realize this? (similar idea to what evil4bc was explaining above with his SF's vent holes - more internal than externally visible).
    I partially agree with you though, and can see where the skepticism can come from, but the way I see it, you are just limiting your own thought, based solely on narrow-mindedness and brand loyalty. It's natural for most to "shun" evolution or new designs until it is 110% proven. I'm not the Grim's #1 fan either, as there may be other options I'd look into first, but it is no doubt a bright new idea that may push the envelope in my opinion. Look at Stolen bikes, they are already adopting this external cut-out idea as well, when they punched out the "S" in their headtubes.
    as for their forks, if it is just 1 cutout in the front of the steerer, it may not pose much of a design flaw (as long as they advertise "for light use" just like the S&M LAF is sold as). And the Grim Pegs, that idea is nothing new, it is just visible to the naked eye now. FLY has done the same thing with several drillings throughout the whole peg, just covered with another thin layer, same with the Odyssey Lighter I think....
    The way I see some of these "speed holes" is it's just (not exactly, but..) tube butting taken to the full extreme. butting thins out the tubes where material isn't needed as much, eastern just removed all of the material where "they" or "their computers" saw it wasn't needed.
    Maybe if the holes were covered in tape of some sort it wouldn't bother people as much.... ?
    Schralp it Heavy.

  53. #53
    Meh.
    Reputation: XSL_WiLL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    17,509
    Blasphemy! Real weight weenies would never bother with paint! Maybe not even anodizing!
    Hahaha. I just read this thread. Some very cool stuff in here.

    My Addict is sitting at roughly 29.5 right now.

  54. #54
    Socialist
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    416
    I had a friend that worked at American Bicycle Manufacturing back in the day. (This was around 1989-1990) He had an M-16 frame built up that was drilled out more than any of the current BMX bikes are. Everything new is old, etc, etc, etc...

    I always wondered that happened to that frame.

  55. #55
    -arschloch-
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    867
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    oooh. I like that, but again this something that has been around since the 70s on road bikes. gotta make sure you dont over torque the expander though.
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  56. #56
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by chuffer
    oooh. I like that, but again this something that has been around since the 70s on road bikes. gotta make sure you dont over torque the expander though.
    I wasn't aware that road bikes ever used the 1" expander on the seatpost?
    This here is also a custom job if you can't tell (using the expander from an old stem), macneil hasn't released a post quite like this yet.... (I also see that Macneil liscenced the patent to DMR, who now sells it as a LockJaw 2 seat and post....)
    Schralp it Heavy.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by jaydrunkenpee
    I had a friend that worked at American Bicycle Manufacturing back in the day. (This was around 1989-1990) He had an M-16 frame built up that was drilled out more than any of the current BMX bikes are. Everything new is old, etc, etc, etc...

    I always wondered that happened to that frame.

    had a friend that worked for GT around that time... had a bike that looked like swiss cheese. i remember thinking how craaaazy lite it was, but im sure it was still over 22lbs (lite for the time).
    a few weeks ago, i ride a neighbor's carbon fiber road bike. felt like riding air, it is so damned lite....
    getting back on my ~34lb rockadile was one deciding factor in building a new, lite bike. problem is budget... that damned "light, strong, cheap... chose any two" thing keeps coming into play...

  58. #58
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    Strong and cheap is what I go for usually, if it is light, then that's a plus.

  59. #59
    I'M A CHEAPSKATE
    Reputation: Cabdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    305
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    I wasn't aware that road bikes ever used the 1" expander on the seatpost?
    I know some F. Mosers had a setup like this. It was a pain to get the seat height set right.
    Last edited by Cabdoctor; 10-18-2006 at 02:23 PM.

  60. #60
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    Strong and cheap is what I go for usually, if it is light, then that's a plus.
    yeah, I think that's what brad had in mind when he built up your SA with just regular old off the shelf Truetemper OX..... hey, just pullin' your leg, def. no cheapness (neither in price nor manufature) factor there!


    Everything new is old, etc, etc, etc...
    yeah, it's all hotrod tech. Slim it down, lose the unnecessary stuff, chop it off, cut it out, and drill speed holes in anything possible, then light'em up and ride away!
    Schralp it Heavy.

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    741
    Just weighed the seat and seatpost on my DK Dayton, which have a pretty bulky look to them. Comes in at just over 2 lbs on my little scale (which seems to be pretty acurate). If the published weights for the Macneil SL Seat and Macneil seatpost are correct, I could save a hair over 1 lb by using that seat/post setup. I suppose $50 for 1 lb is not too bad.

  62. #62
    -arschloch-
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    867
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    I wasn't aware that road bikes ever used the 1" expander on the seatpost?
    This here is also a custom job if you can't tell (using the expander from an old stem), macneil hasn't released a post quite like this yet.... (I also see that Macneil liscenced the patent to DMR, who now sells it as a LockJaw 2 seat and post....)
    doesnt necessarily have to be 1". an expander can be fabbed to any size the manufacturer wants more or less.

    The ones I have seen werent the wedge expanders, but the cone expanders. And, yes, seat height (for the roadbikes of course) with that setup is a pain in the ass.
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  63. #63
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by chuffer
    doesnt necessarily have to be 1". an expander can be fabbed to any size the manufacturer wants more or less.

    The ones I have seen werent the wedge expanders, but the cone expanders. And, yes, seat height (for the roadbikes of course) with that setup is a pain in the ass.

    I gotcha, the only time I've seen the wedge expander was in the case of the 1" threadless stem, so that was my assumption... (and where people are sourcing it for the pivotal mod, since 99% of bmx is 1in or 25.4)
    of course the manufacturer can go with any diameter they want, c'mon....

    I just don't have much knowlegde of roadbikes except hacking on a few to turn them to fixed gears.... and they all used integrated seatclamps... I'm sure that the expander must have been a pain, haha, that is one LONNG bolt! and the stems sucked as well.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  64. #64
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by GotMojo?
    Just weighed the seat and seatpost on my DK Dayton, which have a pretty bulky look to them. Comes in at just over 2 lbs on my little scale (which seems to be pretty acurate). If the published weights for the Macneil SL Seat and Macneil seatpost are correct, I could save a hair over 1 lb by using that seat/post setup. I suppose $50 for 1 lb is not too bad.

    seems a great place for you to start on that dayton. Cut that pivitol post down enough, and swap in a Knight Ti pivitol bolt and you'd lose even more.
    fork might be another way to lose some quick poundage (as well as the front wheel which you mentioned), then possibly some new fly bars or something... you know, the list never ends, haha.

    I liked that ibis you posted up in a different thread too, nice all around rig with the ibis style.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    seems a great place for you to start on that dayton. Cut that pivitol post down enough, and swap in a Knight Ti pivitol bolt and you'd lose even more.
    fork might be another way to lose some quick poundage (as well as the front wheel which you mentioned), then possibly some new fly bars or something... you know, the list never ends, haha.

    I liked that ibis you posted up in a different thread too, nice all around rig with the ibis style.
    Macneil is coming out with a Stump Seat post here shortly that is basically a cut down pivotal. Haven't seen it for sale anywhere yet. And yea, I want to drop some pounds on this Dayton. So far I'm thinking seat, seatpost, bars, and front wheel. I'll probaly remove the pegs too (saves 1.5 lbs) since I won't be using them anytime soon. Maybe a new fork at some point, and possibly rear wheel. Only thing left on the original bike will be the frame and cranks LOL.

    And thanks for the compliment on the Ibis Mojo I posted in that other thread. Love that bike. Was a little sorry to see the new Ibis Mojo only available in carbon fiber and full suspension. They made GREAT steel hardtails back in the day and this new Mojo is so expensive that most people will never be able to afford one.

    Last edited by GotMojo?; 10-19-2006 at 05:23 AM.

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    741
    Eastern Ti frame...

    <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9tKRs49p_yI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9tKRs49p_yI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

  67. #67
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    Interesting little video.

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    741
    Just dropped 2 lbs on my DK Dayton. Here's what I swapped...

    DK Seat and Post --> Macneil SL seat and Macneil Pivotal seatpost, (saved 1.25 lbs)
    DK Handlebar and Grips --> Fit Flow Handlebar and ODI Rogue grips (saved .75 lbs)

    The Pivotal seatpost and seat are pretty trick. Too bad this setup has not made it over to the mountain bike world because it really does save a lot of weight. Maybe its a comfort issue though since the middle of the seat basically has a hole in it where you tighten it...not sure how comfortable that would be if you actually have to sit on the seat for the majority of your rideing (like in XC racing).

    The Fit flow bar was not a huge weight savings, but I wanted a white bar to replace the stock black one.

    Next up is a new front wheel, which should save 1-2 lbs...

  69. #69
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by GotMojo?
    Just dropped 2 lbs on my DK Dayton. Here's what I swapped...

    DK Seat and Post --> Macneil SL seat and Macneil Pivotal seatpost, (saved 1.25 lbs)
    DK Handlebar and Grips --> Fit Flow Handlebar and ODI Rogue grips (saved .75 lbs)

    The Pivotal seatpost and seat are pretty trick. Too bad this setup has not made it over to the mountain bike world because it really does save a lot of weight. Maybe its a comfort issue though since the middle of the seat basically has a hole in it where you tighten it...not sure how comfortable that would be if you actually have to sit on the seat for the majority of your rideing (like in XC racing).

    The Fit flow bar was not a huge weight savings, but I wanted a white bar to replace the stock black one.

    Next up is a new front wheel, which should save 1-2 lbs...

    good stuff man. can you personally feel the upgrades while riding? I think you'll be able to notice an even bigger difference with a new front wheel (less rotating mass) and some skinny kevlar tires - also interesting how now a lot of bmx'ers are going kevlar bead now, just to lose even more weight over the usually much more durable wire beads....
    post up some pics of your ride, well, either here, or under the "show off..." thread


    And Norco has been for a couple of years, and now Eastern26 and DMR are using the Pivotal system as well (maybe others too). DMR is actually selling a version liscenced under their own name as the "Lock-jaw II".
    I also use it on my mtb... and now that they offer MTB sizes, such as the common 27.2 and 30.8 you can use it on a LOT of mtb applications.

    oh yeah, did you get the grey kevlar (that's what I have) or the perforated leather SL saddle?
    Schralp it Heavy.

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    good stuff man. can you personally feel the upgrades while riding? I think you'll be able to notice an even bigger difference with a new front wheel (less rotating mass) and some skinny kevlar tires - also interesting how now a lot of bmx'ers are going kevlar bead now, just to lose even more weight over the usually much more durable wire beads....
    post up some pics of your ride, well, either here, or under the "show off..." thread
    Haven't ridden with the new lighter goodies yet, probably won't notice the 2lbs too much. But yea, the lighter wheel will make the biggest difference. What kevlar bead tires are available? The bike currently has Maxxis Miracles which I think are pretty heavy..

    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    And Norco has been for a couple of years, and now Eastern26 and DMR are using the Pivotal system as well (maybe others too). DMR is actually selling a version liscenced under their own name as the "Lock-jaw II".
    I also use it on my mtb... and now that they offer MTB sizes, such as the common 27.2 and 30.8 you can use it on a LOT of mtb applications.
    Interesting. I'll have to look around. I have a Thomson post and WTB seat on my Mojo, which I'm fine with. But my Kona Cowan just has a cheap (and heavy) Truvativ post with a heavy WTB seat and I want somethiing lighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    oh yeah, did you get the grey kevlar (that's what I have) or the perforated leather SL saddle?
    I got the black leather...almost went with the grey but for some reason decided against it. I bet its much more durable than the one I got.

  71. #71
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by GotMojo?
    What kevlar bead tires are available? The bike currently has Maxxis Miracles which I think are pretty heavy..
    http://www.khebikes.com/2006/street/parts/06-ti-pr.htm
    I don't know anything about maxxis miracles....
    Schralp it Heavy.

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    http://www.khebikes.com/2006/street/parts/06-ti-pr.htm
    I don't know anything about maxxis miracles....
    Cool, I'll have to check those out.

    Oh, and I just posted my DK over in the Show Your Ride thread.

  73. #73
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by GotMojo?
    Cool, I'll have to check those out.

    Oh, and I just posted my DK over in the Show Your Ride thread.
    Really nice bike.

  74. #74
    Air Junkie
    Reputation: Sudden_Judgement's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    206
    I did a little expirement once, where I put those ankle weights on my bmx bike. I put two 5 pounders on, one on the headtube and one around the seat tube, and rode for a week, I then took them off and it felt like a completely different bike than before, I could bunnyhop higher, and tailwhip and spin way faster. It may be stupid but it woked.

  75. #75
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    More partage componentage to droolage uponage. lick it...











    Schralp it Heavy.

  76. #76
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Here is a beautiful piece for those of us who NEVER will run a front disc brake, but run a 20mm fork/thru-axle:



    profile racing's legendary quality, along with one of the strongest wheelbuilds possible on a front with no offset/dish, same length spokes... so smooth. It's on my list of next on the barge.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  77. #77
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    I'd buy one if it came in black or red.

  78. #78
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    I'd buy one if it came in black or red.
    are you talking about the Profile hub?
    yeah, have you heard of spray paint? comes in a can, both about 1/10 of the price and 1/10 the weight of powdercoat. works great for me for my color coordination needs. ok, sorry about the sarcasm, I generally avoid it, but had to say...
    at the moment, I even think it looks pretty cool to even spray paint with the spokes already in, just spin the wheel. Has an 80's punk street look to it.... instead of the high-dollar, cruisin' the strip to show off your pop culture approved "bling" look...
    Schralp it Heavy.

  79. #79
    train gorilla
    Reputation: ---->SWERVE76<----'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    192
    The fly cranks are out. 1.75 claimed pounds.




    cranks finally available!

    yes, after 3 years of developing, the cranks are finally available on some countryes and will be soon on the rest. japan, usa, uk, bulgaria, czchec republic and norway shipped them by air so they received them already and are sending them to the shops at this moment. for the rest, it will take about 4 weeks because they are shipped by boat. australia and asia countryes will take about 2 weeks.
    we are so stoked...


    also, we never told that they are available in 175 and 180mm, the size of spindle is 22mm. and the weight of the set (two arms, spindle, spindle and sprocket bolts) is 795 grs. / 1.75 lb.
    The officer saw the words, "This Bike Is a Pipe Bomb" and became concerned.

  80. #80
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    are you talking about the Profile hub?
    yeah, have you heard of spray paint? comes in a can, both about 1/10 of the price and 1/10 the weight of powdercoat. works great for me for my color coordination needs. ok, sorry about the sarcasm, I generally avoid it, but had to say...
    at the moment, I even think it looks pretty cool to even spray paint with the spokes already in, just spin the wheel. Has an 80's punk street look to it.... instead of the high-dollar, cruisin' the strip to show off your pop culture approved "bling" look...
    Some people like spray paint, some don't. I don't really like it except on some parts.

  81. #81
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by ---->SWERVE76<----
    The fly cranks are out. 1.75 claimed pounds.




    cranks finally available!

    yes, after 3 years of developing, the cranks are finally available on some countryes and will be soon on the rest. japan, usa, uk, bulgaria, czchec republic and norway shipped them by air so they received them already and are sending them to the shops at this moment. for the rest, it will take about 4 weeks because they are shipped by boat. australia and asia countryes will take about 2 weeks.
    we are so stoked...


    also, we never told that they are available in 175 and 180mm, the size of spindle is 22mm. and the weight of the set (two arms, spindle, spindle and sprocket bolts) is 795 grs. / 1.75 lb.

    hey, nice post! those looks like some sick sticks as well! I can't tell, but it looks like that spindle isn't welded to the arm like the wombolts... I'd like to see some closer pics.
    I've got some bmx friends in Japan, hmmm. I should have them order some up for me, haha...
    Schralp it Heavy.

  82. #82
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    hey, nice post! those looks like some sick sticks as well! I can't tell, but it looks like that spindle isn't welded to the arm like the wombolts... I'd like to see some closer pics.
    I've got some bmx friends in Japan, hmmm. I should have them order some up for me, haha...
    Those do look pretty good. Those wombolts have me curious as well satori, you seem to dig them very much.

  83. #83
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    it never ends...

    here are some sweet looking dirt tires that are LIGHT. I've yet to try them, but if you're in the market for dj rubbers, I'd look. Schwalbe Table Top - timo pritzel designed...


    not as sick as the atomlab COMP III comin' back, but hey...



    haha, actually, I double posted again, so I edited this one and added that tire, but I have been thinking about it...
    Last edited by BikeSATORI; 01-18-2007 at 09:43 PM.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  84. #84
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    hell, may as well bring this one into the new year as well....

    I see Macneil has come up with some proto crank arms as well, gotta keep up with the game in the current bike world today apparantly, everybody's droppin' crank arms left and right (hopefully not literally).

    But these are pretty interesting, hard to tell in the pictures, as they look like profiles with a weld down the middle, but they are actually two thin oval pieces of hollow chromo welded together... who knows how much they weigh, but in theory, that seems stouter than guiness.

    and in this graphic you can see the cross-sections of the crank arm.

    both photos courtesy of macneilbmxdotcom. check the news, a few nice bike checks there as well...


    here's TSC's sick new offering, and from what I can tell, they will be priced nicely as well, but no bb included (isn't that the new trend lately...) The Torrid arms, use a TRICK one piece backbone with the spindle and pedal inserts integrated, then a chromoly shell welded on top, with a nice (IMO, some hate it) hexagon profile shape...

    much easier to see the trick backbone here when separated



    also gotta show this trick little chunk-o'-goodness. NEMPRO ride or die clamp:

    you know you want it! another sick prime-cut grade A stock from SRM.



    and another, from an occasional poster on these boards, chip, the anchor action:

    holdfast XLT


    oh yeah, and may as well throw in a piece that I love, and am hoping will work out on my next build... get one if you can, or sell me yours if you've got one and don't want it.
    Fly Bikes euro-to-spanish converter.

    Schralp it Heavy.

  85. #85
    40 oz to freedom
    Reputation: Vinny A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,049
    Theres lots of stuff you can do for weight savings. I think for my next bike I'm going to go Eastern Grim Reaper, with the lightest possible stuff on it.

    Also the Odyssey Elementary stem is awesome, only 1 bolt to secure it all!
    Looking for a used DH/FR bike, have 1500 PM me with anything you've got

  86. #86
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Lightsabre action goin' on here... made for a 3.5lb frame!

    keep in mind, this is on a limited edition Quamen GammA flatland frame, so unfortunetly for us, it probably wouldn't survive. Nice eye candy to take in though.


    Now take a look at yet another stem hitting. This thing is the definition of TRICK!
    man. Only uses the four bolts for the bar clamps, then all of the parts squeeze together in a nice little tubage hug.




    not until you see it disassembled into the little parts do you realize how much pondering and messing around must have gone into the engineering of that pretty little bit. Man I like it... should have listened to my pops and gramps and continued with my engineering degree...

    and, a sick little stylee sprocket from those same guys.


    Here is probably my favorite press-fit headset out there. Solid, in more ways than one. Tapered roller bearings, yum. Heavy though, so I don't know why I'm posting it here, but it appears that this just became the thread where I throw up some stuff to drool over haha.... hope I'm not the only one drooling here.

    Schralp it Heavy.

  87. #87
    40 oz to freedom
    Reputation: Vinny A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,049
    Not so sure I'm diggin that stem. I bet its not so light and costs a ton.
    Looking for a used DH/FR bike, have 1500 PM me with anything you've got

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Evil4bc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,161
    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI
    Lightsabre action goin' on here... made for a 3.5lb frame!

    keep in mind, this is on a limited edition Quamen GammA flatland frame, so unfortunetly for us, it probably wouldn't survive.
    F trying to get that to survive during rideing ... How do they avoid it distorting during welding
    Follow me on Instagram for up to date build pics -Brad4130
    Nem-Pro store
    Nem-Pro Blog

  89. #89
    I post too much.
    Reputation: snaky69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil4bc
    F trying to get that to survive during rideing ... How do they avoid it distorting during welding
    Maybe done after welding? It would be harder but I figure it could be done.

  90. #90
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by snaky69
    Maybe done after welding? It would be harder but I figure it could be done.

    yeah, done after welding, look at the holes next to the welds. Apparantly that's why it's limited edition, haha... but, those larger cutouts are done before, that is how some of their frames come stock.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny A
    Not so sure I'm diggin that stem. I bet its not so light and costs a ton.
    And to Vinny A below... why would that stem be heavy??? it only uses 4 bolts and is machined to the max, but I'm sure you are right, probably pretty pricey. But, I think it is badjazz for sure.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  91. #91
    40 oz to freedom
    Reputation: Vinny A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,049
    It just seems like it is still a good amount of material being used.

    Now that I look at it more though, you're right not too heavy. Probably close to where the Odyssey Elementary stem is:

    That stem is so sick, I love it. Only 1 bolt to secure the whole thing, and it comes in at 8oz, with a Ti bolt you probably could get it at 6-7oz. I think Profile stopped making the Ti bolts for the Elementary stems
    Looking for a used DH/FR bike, have 1500 PM me with anything you've got

  92. #92
    Rollin' twenties.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,635
    i was just about to mention the elementery, i wana pick one up but i think there too $$$

  93. #93
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by aggiebiker
    i was just about to mention the elementery, i wana pick one up but i think there too $$$
    I mentioned the elementary on the first page of the thread... but that said, George French has gotta be one of my heroes. Comes up with some awesome stuff! Wish they made the ribcage in 24" or the marmoset in 20mm thru, already has a 20mm axle, just with 3/8 hex bolts on the end... I think I might even like it better than the profile non-disc 20mm hub.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  94. #94
    40 oz to freedom
    Reputation: Vinny A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,049
    Quote Originally Posted by aggiebiker
    i was just about to mention the elementery, i wana pick one up but i think there too $$$
    Its honestly not alot, especially for the designing that went into the stem. Its around the price of any other good stem (Animal Jumpoff being $54.) It is also an Odyssey so you defiantly get what you pay for.
    Looking for a used DH/FR bike, have 1500 PM me with anything you've got

  95. #95
    Rollin' twenties.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,635
    maybe i will get one, can i run i gyro w/ the elmentary

  96. #96
    mtbr remember
    Reputation: BikeSATORI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by aggiebiker
    maybe i will get one, can i run i gyro w/ the elmentary
    yeah, they sell a version of it that has gyro stops built into the sides.
    Schralp it Heavy.

  97. #97
    40 oz to freedom
    Reputation: Vinny A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,049
    Yeah, defiantly get the Elementary if you're in the market for a good light stem. I think the gyro tabs are an extra 5 bucks though
    Looking for a used DH/FR bike, have 1500 PM me with anything you've got

  98. #98
    Rollin' twenties.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,635
    has anyone mentioned easterns ti cranks? there there pretty dang light

    http://www.easternbikes.com/a/produc.../TiCranks.html

  99. #99
    Local Paperboy Hero
    Reputation: Cru Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    986

    Pedals?

    What's the word on some light weight pedals? I'm rockin the Drive Pro Sealed. At 15.3 oz, they are some of the lightest I could find, along with Ruben's and DK Distortion's with Ti spindles. These are over half a pound lighter than a lot of the pedals out there... a real nice spot to save some weight. Any other solid, light pedals out there?

    I'm lovin the Drive's. Low profile, smooth look to them. Hella grip. Didn't come with replacement pins, though.


    Oh, and I reallly wish they would make a light weight half link chain. I love the functionality and looks of the Shadow Interlock 2... but it weighs a sh!t ton.
    Last edited by Cru Jones; 01-30-2007 at 01:30 PM.

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,661
    my shimano dx's are about 17 oz.. not too bad.. and about teh chain.. i love the half link on my ToP, but damn i can save half the weight with just a regular chain on my new build.. maybe they need a hollow pin half link,,,

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 1

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •