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  1. #1
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    DJ , Pump Track plans

    My freinds and I are going to build a DJ park and a Pump track. I have been doing a lot of research trying to find the best set I can find. So does anyone have and good suggestions of webpages or any links that could help me out. I did get the e-book from leelikesbikes.com.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flboy
    My freinds and I are going to build a DJ park and a Pump track. I have been doing a lot of research trying to find the best set I can find. So does anyone have and good suggestions of webpages or any links that could help me out. I did get the e-book from leelikesbikes.com.

    Thanks
    I think the best advise I could give you is to get a solid commitment from your friends that you all will put in the hours to dig. When you start a line, really plan it out and put some thought and measurments into it. Digging w/ a crew is always much easier. 5-6 people can really make something from a pile of dirt.
    -ebR

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by East Bay Rich
    I think the best advise I could give you is to get a solid commitment from your friends that you all will put in the hours to dig. When you start a line, really plan it out and put some thought and measurments into it. Digging w/ a crew is always much easier. 5-6 people can really make something from a pile of dirt.
    -ebR
    true that
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  4. #4
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    Good advice so far. And don't underestimate the amount of time and effort you need to put in even after your done building. My pump track has required a lot of maintenance just to keep it rideable. And I seem to always want to build some new lines once I get bored with it.

    So I guess what I'm saying is, you really are never finished building a pump track.

  5. #5
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    the Leelikesbikes "Welcome to Pump Track Nation" is written well, BUT . . the thing people don't realize is that it is primarily intended for backyards. if you have a lot of space, like a public park, do not build a small 30 ft. X 70ft. oval or figure 8 pump track. that is not what mtb/bmx is all about !! that's a backyard pump track.


    SO, lemme just give you some points that I think are essential to a good mtbmx spot.

    1. if you are on flat ground, you MUST build a large starting hill, like at a bmx track. there is nothing as lame as having to crank from a standstill.

    2. build at least 3 different jump lines with different heights and gaps. the standard bmx skatepark box jump in the old days was 4' tall with an 8' or 10' deck. that is an excellent size for a lot of riding levels. the difficulty has more to do with the mellowness or steepness of the transitions than with the size. for example, in the picture below, is 3 tabletops in a row. the height is probably somewhere between 3'6" on the first one and maybe 4'5" on the last one. the lip to landing gaps should match up pretty closely, unless you're going down hill. you don't want a short jump followed by a long one, or the reverse.
    a 7-8 foot lip to landing gap is very easy. 9-10 is normal/intermediate. 11-12 is getting big (unless your transitions are mellow and it's easy to carry some distance. 13+ is intermediate/advanced level. for that to be fun, you MUST be on a decline slope, or have a BIG starting hill to drop in from.


    3. space your rollers appropriately.
    the rollers you see in the picture below on the left are spaced 13-14 ft. peak to peak. this is typical bmx race track style. you can gain speed, manual through them etc.



    4. TABLES are good for beginner and intermediate scenes. if you want more people to show up (and potentially help in the future), build stuff they can ride. this table about 13 or 14 feet from lip to landing. note how deck of table transitions with a curve into the landing. this is good for beginners who are gonna tag their back wheel pretty hard.



    5. public city/neighborhood spots should not be built by hand. if the city ok's a dirt jump spot, get someone to rent a bobcat and do all the fundamental work with heavy machinery. most beginner jump spots die before they get started because of the sheer amount of digging it takes to make an awesome spot.

    6. resist the urge to make every jump look like a skatepark quarterpipe--one line of steep tranny jumps is cool, but build the others with mellow. you will get plenty of air and it will be a lot smoother.


    7. avoid the mistake of small landings. landings are actually more important than launches. you want something that is big and long, starts steep at the top, but has mellow transition at the bottom. here is a typical beginner mistake. a 13' gap but the landing has barely enough surface to get the wheelbase of your bike on.


    this is one of the big sets. around 18 feet lip to landing lip gap. but look how big the landing is. tons of transition to land on. . the more transition you have to land on, no matter how big the jump, the more the jumps will have flow. flat ground is your enemy. rythm comes from having back to back transitions. inclines, declines, curves.

    hope that helps.

  6. #6
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    great pic's and advidce cmc4130 and as far as commitment goes we have got it. This going to be on private property and the land owner came to us to build the park, well it was a mutual coming together. He wants a track and we want a track. We already have the use of bobcats and other heavy equipment. I am trying to find some guidence into build the jumps properly and suggestions of good flow lines. Thanks agin for the great advice on spacing and landings. I know there are a bunch of us MTB's who have done this and know some things to do and not to do.

  7. #7
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    Here are some plans:

    http://www.chuckfurlong.com/SundaysTrails/design.html

    These are out of date. The place is no longer called Sundays trails, and the jumps didn't end up being built exactly as you see in the plans.

    Also check out Progressive Park Design's plans for the Texas X-Park dirt section:
    http://www.progressiveparkdesign.com..._Park_Dirt.pdf .


    1. RHYTHM SPACING. If you're going to do a rhythm line of jumps (meaning back to back jumps where you have to land smooth to have a good pump to jump the next one), spacing is very important.
    The top of the first landing to the lip of the next jump needs to be somewhere between double and triple the gap distance of the jumps. So, if you have a line of 10 foot gap jumps, the landing-to-next-lip distance should be at least 20 ft. That will feel tight. 25ft. is about normal. And 30ft. is plenty of room. These tables are spaced around 25-28 feet. If you do the math, this will also tell you how much room you'll need for a 5 sets of doubles in a row. Big drop in (probably covers 15 feet of the flat ground), at least 30 feet to crank, 10 foot gap, 25 ft pit, 10 ft. gap, 25 ft pit, 10, 25, 10, 25, 10, 25, then some kind of berm to turn around (covering another 15 ft or so). So add it up, that means you need roughly 220 - 250 ft. 80 yards.


    2. CONSTRUCTION.
    (a) If you have to dig dirt by hand, consider using large objects like solid stacks of logs, railroad ties, bricks/cinder blocks, washing machines, whatever. It will go so much faster, and you'll have a solid under-structure. If you're using logs, the base of the jump has to be a lot wider than you want it at the top, because dirt has a tendency to become mountain shaped....
    (b) If you're buying dirt, you can use cheap fill dirt for most of the jump, ESPECIALLY if you're building tables, then put a layer of sandy loam with clay content, or some other kind of clay mixture. In my area, the natural black clay soil is perfect by itself. If you pack it really well, when it dries, it's like cement.

    (c) Watering the jumps will prevent the surface cracking and crumbling. So you need to think about where you'll get your water.


  8. #8
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    I nominate this thread for sticky status!

    Fantastic info.

    who can make it happen?

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    awesome write ups there cmc4130 good info. I agree with the stickage

  10. #10
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    A few words about pump tracks, pump-jump tracks, and mid-school bmx rhythm sections.....

    1. To take a pump track to the next level, you'll want to move beyond the Leelikesbikes.com designs and build something that looks a lot more like a mini-bmx track. Back to back table tops, lots of rollable doubles, launch-transfers etc.

    2. Take a look at this classic 1990's SoCal BMX spot known as Sheep Hills. Watch the very first line. What you'll notice is how the lips are not more than 3 feet off ground level, but the pits are at least 2 feet or more deep--meaning they feel more like 5 foot tall doubles. The cool thing about having landing pits that are bowls with zero flat space is that it makes your rhythm section really smooth. (The bad thing is if you live in a rainy climate, they fill up with water). You can have back to back doubles very close together, but because of the constant transitions you get amazing flow. ** SO, consider using the same concept in your pump track.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...A5DQ4ALUg5HnBA


    3. Here's another example of back to back low-to-the-ground doubles with deep pits. It was known as the Graveyard section at 9th street.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...LRoLnsBA&hl=en

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...MJSw4QKt2eXxBA

  11. #11
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    bump

  12. #12
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    I CALL STICKY!

    nice post
    -War does not determine who is right, only who is left...-

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  13. #13
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    This is a good reference point for ideas.
    Just posting so I can find this for easy reference.

  14. #14
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    why the **** is there nothing like that where i live

  15. #15
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    Stuff like this just doesn't magically appear...
    It takes hard work and dedication.

    Obviously everyone where you live is fat and lazy.
    Tricks Like: The Heavy Metal Maniac's Dizz Flip, Redefine the Term "Radness"

  16. #16
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    I was just about to say, Get out there and make something like it. That's what I'm doing.

    All you need is a shovel, dirt, and a tamper. Oh and a lot of manpower helps.

  17. #17
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    is what cmc4130 posted a jump pump track compared to rhythm pump track?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjcc55
    is what cmc4130 posted a jump pump track compared to rhythm pump track?
    yes.

    rhythm pump tracks in my opinion get boring. if it's not designed to have jumpable aspects to it, it is almost pointless.

    the way you space rollers and pits matters A LOT to whether it's a jump-pump track or pump only.

  19. #19
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    Walk thru the progression of this thread: Joe's Jump Farm

  20. #20
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    this spot is the perfect example of jump/pump. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U1LvX6zJjM

    bmx'ers would just say it's trails and everything is rollable.

    the rollable factor is key for bringing new people into the scene. old guys, chicks, groms etc. (if thats what you want).

  21. #21
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    CMC, I really like the looks of your track in Austin, and also the last post about the jump/pump track. I have the pump track nation book and I am in the planning stage for building a jump/pump track. Do you have a layout for the austin track? It looks like some of it is sloping down hill. My lot has a large flat upper section and then drops down in three different tiers. My plan was to build the track on the upper portion but after looking at some of these threads I am considering some alternate lines that drop down into the lower tiers. I see how you can use the progressively bigger rollers to go up hill, but how steep of an incline can you climb back up with pumping only?

  22. #22
    Manual4ever
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    out of curiosity, and since i'll be ordering my dirt and hauling it in. How many yards of dirt is that table jump?
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    CMC, I really like the looks of your track in Austin, and also the last post about the jump/pump track. I have the pump track nation book and I am in the planning stage for building a jump/pump track. Do you have a layout for the austin track? It looks like some of it is sloping down hill. My lot has a large flat upper section and then drops down in three different tiers. My plan was to build the track on the upper portion but after looking at some of these threads I am considering some alternate lines that drop down into the lower tiers. I see how you can use the progressively bigger rollers to go up hill, but how steep of an incline can you climb back up with pumping only?
    heh hheh. those weren't "my" track. but this is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ3E8u-CZ2w
    there's no question, if YOU build it, they will come.

    to answer your question, you should definitely use natural terrain ups and downs. it's more challenging, but in the end it is way more fun.

    for going up a slight incline or gaining speed from a slow speed consider an accelerating rollers design:


    another thing i learned was that you want a big radius to turn 90 degrees at the bottom of a decline, but then a tight radius turn as you turn to go back up an incline. nothing kills speed like a big radius berm that goes up hill.

    if you want to make rollers more jumpable, pair up the rollers, instead of spacing them evenly. pace out all your peaks. if you're not digging down bowls/pits, you'll need a lot more dirt. remember these are not speedbumps, you're creating a wave pattern on the ground--no flat space !! always make rollers bubbled over, not peaky.









    more here:

    "pump tracks" thread on ridemonkey http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=217062

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    I would like to point out one thing that has been kinda overlooked. after building one obstacle, ride it to get an idea how much speed you'll have and where you want to start building the next. after building the next, ride both to see if they flow correctly. if they do you will not have to pedal, brake(check-up) or struggle to make the second set, it should come naturally. thirdly, it is nice to see a slight increase in speed after landing each set. dont make the mistake of getting in a hurry and throwing up a bunch of jumps and then having to move all of them to make it work. also have patience, I know guys that will spend a week building a lip, another week or more on the lander and then after riding it they end up tearing it down and moving it to make the flow better.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime8
    out of curiosity, and since i'll be ordering my dirt and hauling it in. How many yards of dirt is that table jump?
    just do the math... length X width X height = volume

    1 cubic yard is 27 cubic feet.

    account for dirt being packed versus loose.

    the box area in the middle (the deck) would be 12 feet long, average of 5 wide (4 wide at the top, 6 wide at the bottom), and 4 feet tall. then add on a rough 8 X 5 X 4 for the launch and landing part. 14 cubic yards. multiply by 1.3 to account for loose versus packed...
    total = ROUGHLY 18 cubic yards. which is a LOT. a whole dump truck load.

  26. #26
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    [QUOTE=cmc4130]heh hheh. those weren't "my" track. but this is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ3E8u-CZ2w
    there's no question, if YOU build it, they will come.

    Sorry for the confusion on my part, I was refering to the walnut creek track. Your roller ideas look good. What is the layout for the walnut creek track look like? I know the track needs to be tailored to the land your are building it on but any ideas would help. The typical oval track with some crossover lines looks like it would get boring after awhile. It looks like you a great layout for the track with some interesting lines.

  27. #27
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    [QUOTE=Dr boo boo]
    Quote Originally Posted by cmc4130
    heh hheh. those weren't "my" track. but this is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ3E8u-CZ2w
    there's no question, if YOU build it, they will come.

    Sorry for the confusion on my part, I was refering to the walnut creek track. Your roller ideas look good. What is the layout for the walnut creek track look like? I know the track needs to be tailored to the land your are building it on but any ideas would help. The typical oval track with some crossover lines looks like it would get boring after awhile. It looks like you a great layout for the track with some interesting lines.
    it's very roughly an outer rectangular loop (think of a rectangle with rounded corners instead of an oval) that is roughly 180 feet long by about 60 or 70 wide. then there is another inside loop inside of that. there are several points where you can transfer from the outside loop to the inside loop. the starting point is at the top of a natural elevation that is probably about 15 ft. higher in elevation than the lowest point.

    the point is, if you are designing a pump track and you have a lot of space, go ahead and use a lot of space. the only restriction is how tired you'll get after one lap ! !
    it doesn't even really need to be a "track." you could have a "pump trail." the DH trail "Silky Johnson" at Sol Vista is almost a DH pump trail, with rollers and berms on almost every turn in some sections as you are going down the mountain. sooooo rad.

  28. #28
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    I want to build something with alot of different options. The outer track with the inner track seems like a good idea, I guess right now I am just caught up in design phase, trying to work out some fun transfers, Trying to work in s turns and different transfer options. I have watched the videos of the peacock pitt and that place looks awesome, i only wish there was a layout of that track that I could see. I don't want to copy someone else's design, but having never built anything like this I can sure use some ideas. I took some measurements of the property and the upper section is about 60' x 124' and level, it drops down about 4' to a large second tier that is about 90' x 124' sloping 2' from the fron to the back. I have alot to work with.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy Jim
    . . . . after building one obstacle, ride it to get an idea how much speed you'll have and where you want to start building the next. after building the next, ride both to see if they flow correctly. . . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    . . . I guess right now I am just caught up in design phase, trying to work out some fun transfers, . . . .

    even though i love designing stuff on paper and master planning, jim is right, you also just gotta start diggin, then ride it and go from there.

    certain basic principles apply, but if you're dealing with nautral terrain gradients, you have to adapt... use the decline areas as landings or drop-ins. use rollers to get up gradients. use small radius 6-9ft. for slow speed turns where you need the berm to help you generate speed. use larger radius berm 13-15ft to soak up speed at the bottom of a decline.

    careful with 180 berms--an 8 foot radius on a 90 degree berm is a great medium size turn, but an 8 foot radius on a 180 berm will feel tight and technical, because of increasing G's as you go around. go carve around in some cement skatepark bowls to get an idea of what different bowl-corner transitions feel like.

    so get started and post some pics.

  30. #30
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    Great info in this thread! My roommate and I are working on a backyard pumptrack. It's in a pretty small area (approx. 30x30). We've got it to where it pumps all the way around, but I'd like to get it to where we can catch some air. Any ideas? (Already working on a bigger drop-in).

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    yikes. 30 X 30 is small... honestly if that was my yard i'd be more inclined to build a skate/bmx half-pipe. you can definitely get air then...

    you don't even have room for a steep drop in then dirt jump and berm. you need 10 feet at least for the drop in, 10 feet for the berm, and that doesn't give you enough space for a double.




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    I guess I am kind of stuck in the planning stage. I would rather put some time into the planning then to start off without a plan, All the info I have got from this post has really been helpful, especially from CMC. Thanks. I will definetly post up progress pictures when I start. I got a good line on some dirt from a contractor in the area, I will only have to pay for the hauling and not the dirt. I only wish I had my own bobcat for the work. I have been trying to find a good used one to buy for my business, no luck yet on that.

  33. #33
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    example of pit/bowl style of building. the dirt from the pit you're riding in is used to build the rollers/rollable-double or table before and after it. the advantage is the track become more a part of the terrain and requires less digging because as the pit gets dug down, the effective height of the jump goes up. only drawback is pits fill up with water. so you have to consider drainage.

    this spot is just getting started, but we got in a good dig today...


  34. #34
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    www.thegardenjumps.com

    This has been the summer project here in Chicago. We have part that is pretty big DJs and part that is a pumptrack with smallish tables. It really caters to everyone and is IMO more fun than a basic jump park (start hill and a few jumps then back to the start hill) You can see the design for each part on the website.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenks
    www.thegardenjumps.com

    This has been the summer project here in Chicago. We have part that is pretty big DJs and part that is a pumptrack with smallish tables. It really caters to everyone and is IMO more fun than a basic jump park (start hill and a few jumps then back to the start hill) You can see the design for each part on the website.
    jumps and website effing well done !

  36. #36
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    Thanks, we have worked very hard on these jumps. As for the website, I cannot take any credit for that, we have a guy that is a wiz with that sort of thing.

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    I checked out the website, great job! That looks like a fun place to ride. I finally started laying out my pump/jump track. I'm not sure if it will be the final layout. I think I will work out a few more ideas on paper. I'll post up the proposed layouts to see if anyone has any suggestions.

  38. #38
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    as another guy from the garden let me add in another couple of tidbits.

    DON'T stack the jumps full of junk to save dirt. in years past we've done that, and its always come back to haunt us. slowly but surly its all getting pulled out and new stuff is being built pure dirt. your going to change/modify almost everything, and if you need to push a lip back your unholy screwed when you start hitting those cinder blocks. if you stack it full of wood, after several years its going to degrade. especially don't do it with berms.

    keep drainage in mind from the getgo to avoid trouble spots and be aware of what techniques you can employ to address your trouble spots, such as french drains.

    plan as well as you can, but understand that all plans will require some revision.

    build a variety of lines that can appeal to a variety of talent levels. incorporate some nice tables into your pumptrack, build some bigger tables near your main line of doubles. this will encourage progression and it will encourage even the dudes that aren't hitting the big stuff to put in shovel time on the big stuff, they'll consider it an investment in their future.

    don't screwup the trees. don't cut down healthy trees. they add character and are a life long asset, work the jumps around and through the trees, rhythm jumps don't need to be straight. learn some basic arborist techniques and prune the trees as necessary, don't just hack them up or break them off, get a saw and use it appropriately.

    make sure your crew is willing to spend time ridding and digging, but also doing all the rest of the important stuff like patching, tree trimming, watering, sweeping and cleaning up the garbage.

    build your jumps in a sustainable location, not some obviously outlaw spot that is going to get torn down next spring. go legit if possible and involve the community and your local IMBA chapter. chances are, your local IMBA chapter is up for pretty much anything as long as some people are willing to take the lead on it, they'll support you. dirtjumps that have been maintained and seasoned for several years are a thing of beauty.

    put carpets on the jumps when they arn't being ridden. this is a godsend! they'll prevent erosion, keep the dirt nice and moist and tacky and help prevent cracking.

    if you can, try to build with good dirt all the way through, facing dank clay over top of ashy crap is REALLY hard and time consuming. i have some good techniques down but its labor intensive, messy and can have mixed results requiring multiple applications.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by euroford
    as another guy from the garden let me add in another couple of tidbits.

    DON'T stack the jumps full of junk to save dirt. in years past we've done that, and its always come back to haunt us. slowly but surly its all getting pulled out and new stuff is being built pure dirt. your going to change/modify almost everything, and if you need to push a lip back your unholy screwed when you start hitting those cinder blocks. if you stack it full of wood, after several years its going to degrade. especially don't do it with berms.
    I gotta partially disagree with you here.
    While you make some darn good points, particularly with the cinder blocks, consider this:
    If you think, even for a second, that you may have to move a jump back, build a wooden ramp, not a dirt ramp. Then you build a dirt lander. The lander can remain stationary while you can move the wooden one if need be. I started a DJ vs. wood jumps thread a year or so ago and got (unjustifiably) accused of being a troll by some of the eliteist dirt jumper douche bags on here.
    Secondly, you are right, wood will degrade a bit after several years...SEVERAL years. That's more than enough time to ride those DJs. Besides, if you use a rot resistant wood like cedar, you don't have to worry about it. And if you use regular wood, just 'stain' the ends of the logs with used engine oil. Most moisture rot that wood encounters actually startrs from the ends...where the ends of the grains are exposed, not lengthwise.
    Also, if you don't put a lot of wood 'filler' in the ramps (i.e. you should at least have 1.5' layer of dirt over any solid filler you put under there. That gives you enough leeway to make adjustments.

    keep drainage in mind from the getgo to avoid trouble spots and be aware of what techniques you can employ to address your trouble spots, such as french drains.
    Agree 100% here. Plus, you can use the dirt you get from the drainage ditches you dig up.

    plan as well as you can, but understand that all plans will require some revision.

    build a variety of lines that can appeal to a variety of talent levels. incorporate some nice tables into your pumptrack, build some bigger tables near your main line of doubles. this will encourage progression and it will encourage even the dudes that aren't hitting the big stuff to put in shovel time on the big stuff, they'll consider it an investment in their future.
    Well said. I'd also like to add that someone on here in a related thread made the suggestion that you build your stunts just above your skill level...that motivates you to practice harder and get better quicker, to where you won't get bored with them as quick.


    don't screwup the trees. don't cut down healthy trees. they add character and are a life long asset, work the jumps around and through the trees, rhythm jumps don't need to be straight. learn some basic arborist techniques and prune the trees as necessary, don't just hack them up or break them off, get a saw and use it appropriately.
    Once again, I can't agree with you 100%. Yes, while you should refrain from cutting down healthy trees, if you are building wood stunts as well as dirt jumps, like I am, big enough trees can become useful upright post supports. Also, if you have a thick thicket of trees you want a line to go through, thinning out the area a little bit can be beneficial. It allows the breeze to flow through there easier, it also allows a bit more sunlight in for the remaining trees. This is one area where I say 'use your best judgment'.


    make sure your crew is willing to spend time ridding and digging, but also doing all the rest of the important stuff like patching, tree trimming, watering, sweeping and cleaning up the garbage.
    Most definitely

    build your jumps in a sustainable location, not some obviously outlaw spot that is going to get torn down next spring. go legit if possible and involve the community and your local IMBA chapter. chances are, your local IMBA chapter is up for pretty much anything as long as some people are willing to take the lead on it, they'll support you. dirtjumps that have been maintained and seasoned for several years are a thing of beauty.
    Couldn't agree more. That's why I shake my head whenever someone posts pictures of a secret trail and other riders get all huffy and puffy about it. That situation just screams, 'hey I've built some dirt jumps on land that I wasn't supposed to'. I can certainly do w/o that eliteist attitude. So much for mtn bikers being a single community huh?

    put carpets on the jumps when they arn't being ridden. this is a godsend! they'll prevent erosion, keep the dirt nice and moist and tacky and help prevent cracking.
    I've seen that before but it really didn't register until you mentioned it. I'm definitely going to try that with my DJs! Should we put carpet on the landers too?

    if you can, try to build with good dirt all the way through, facing dank clay over top of ashy crap is REALLY hard and time consuming. i have some good techniques down but its labor intensive, messy and can have mixed results requiring multiple applications.
    You also have to consider where you live. Here in TN we have predominately clay soil. To add insult to injury, we have anywhere from 6" to 1/5' of top'clay', then solid limestone. We don't have an 80' layer of topsoil like Iowa/Nebraska, etc.
    So unless you have the $$ to have expensive topsoil delivered to your house, you have to make do with what you got.

    Great write-up regardless dude.
    Jump it onto something off of something or over something.

    There's more to freeriding than dirt jumps.

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    i'm just sayin, but over the years we've almost 100% regretted burying crap in the jumps.

    but... we have a pretty much unlimited dirt supply, we get the stuff trucked in and have no shortage of sources. around here, companies have to pay to dump fill someplace, they are stoked when we offer to take some off their hands. your millage may vary obviously.

    yeah, definitely put carpets on the landers, hell put em on everything if you can!

    and yes, a thinning can be very good for a patch of woods, with some luck every wooded DJ spot should have their own arborist geek / chainsaw junky to take care of that stuff.

    another thing to consider: tabletop jumps, with flat tops tend to erode sideways pretty fast making a maintenance nightmare, the jumps get incrementally thinner and in some cases had to be rebuilt 1-2 times a year.

    having gotten tired of that, we built some wooden retaining walls and this has worked WONDERS. a couple of 4x4 posts, some 2x10's, a couple of bags of quickrete for the posts and an afternoon of work. that $60 has saved us countless unnecessary rebuilds.

    like so:

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    heres my back yard mini. Now being a new Dad and not a lot of extra time the past year or so, I decided to put something in the back yard for convenience and also ride consistency.I also love to rip and help build at some local trail spots when time permits but I felt it was time to tear up the back yard so here it is. This video is when the track was only about 2 months old. It looks different now and will get even bigger and smother this coming season but this is a vid a buddy of mine took when he came by. Click on the link and scroll down to the August 5th date where is says "Thanks for the call" . I think I've decided that from now on, no matter how big or small our yard is, there will be dirt. Also, I like keeping at like a grassroots level, its not the cutest or biggest track but its something that many people can do.

    http://raisindetra.blogspot.com/sear...3%3A00-04%3A00

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    Here is an idea I have for a layout. The area I want to build the pump/jump track is about 54' x 122' this leaves me with an area to build a roll-in at the end without all the transfers. What do you think of the layout? Any suggestions or ideas for improvement?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmb_mike
    Couldn't agree more. That's why I shake my head whenever someone posts pictures of a secret trail and other riders get all huffy and puffy about it. That situation just screams, 'hey I've built some dirt jumps on land that I wasn't supposed to'. I can certainly do w/o that eliteist attitude. So much for mtn bikers being a single community huh?
    I don't mind sharing my 1,000's of hours of work with whoever wants to ride as long as you respect the trails and help out. When you show up time and time and time again, case the lips and landings, set fires, leave your trash behind, and do absolutely ZERO work then you are not part of the "community"--you are a f'king poacher. I'm quite content with my "elitest" attitude in those cases.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmb_mike
    . . . That's why I shake my head whenever someone posts pictures of a secret trail and other riders get all huffy and puffy about it. That situation just screams, 'hey I've built some dirt jumps on land that I wasn't supposed to'. I can certainly do w/o that eliteist attitude. So much for mtn bikers being a single community huh?
    . . . .
    The rest of your post is pretty good, but I don't see your point about pictures...

    Do not post pictures of secret trails. is number 11 on "The Digging Rules." Best way to be in the "community" is to respect the rules and respect the people that built what you are riding.

    If you are so against unauthorized trails, THEN DON'T RIDE THEM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    Here is an idea I have for a layout. The area I want to build the pump/jump track is about 54' x 122' this leaves me with an area to build a roll-in at the end without all the transfers. What do you think of the layout? Any suggestions or ideas for improvement?


    Nice drawing and good ideas. Pump tracks are all about complete freedom . . . but there is a math aspect to it as well, as far as what works and how it works....

    Having 4 corners of a rectangle is good. WAAAY better than having a huge oval end or 180 turn on one entire end.

    Shorter radius (tighter) turns are better for pumping or whipping out of if you are at a slower speed. Larger radius turns soak up speed, and are only "whippable" if you are already going reasonably fast.

    Therefore if you match up the 4 corners with the same radius berms, your pump track will have a consistent speed. If they are different radii, it means the pump track will have fast spots and slow spots, which is fine if you want to have to accelerate/decelerate. Just note that this will happen.

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    Finally came up with a design for the track that I think will give alot of options for different lines. I cleared the lot and got rid of all the weeds. I watered it really good and got it compacted (used my Truck F250). The soil is sandy but it compacted really well. I have a nice base to work with now. I am having 100 yds of clay soil brought in today. I will post up pics as I build. The radius for the berms are now the same. I am going to build a ramp for a roll-in and one end of the track since the lot is level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    Finally came up with a design for the track that I think will give alot of options for different lines. I cleared the lot and got rid of all the weeds. I watered it really good and got it compacted (used my Truck F250). The soil is sandy but it compacted really well. I have a nice base to work with now. I am having 100 yds of clay soil brought in today. I will post up pics as I build. The radius for the berms are now the same. I am going to build a ramp for a roll-in and one end of the track since the lot is level.
    that looks good. if you're gonna plan it out that much you'll want to figure out where the rollers are going to be as well.... i think 11 or 12 foot spacing (peak to peak) is good for smaller rollers and 13-14 ft. is good for larger ones... bmx tracks typically have 14 foot spacing on rollers--but they are designed for very high speed...

    are you going to have tabletop jumps or rollable doubles ("camel back" style) in the pump track, or is just going to be rollers ?

    here's a line of small tables in Stowe VT:


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    CMC,good call on the inside 180 berm being too close to the outside 90. I was just thinking about that today when they were delivering the dirt. I had planned on building the outside 90's first and then the inside berms, since I have the room I think I will move the 180's more towards the inside of the track. I will be building rollable doubles and table tops for sure. I want my kids to be able to use the track as well but I don't want just a bunch of small little rollers. I like your idea about planning out the roller spacing as well. What size would you consider a small and a large roller? I really liked your idea about the doubles leading into the pit with the step-up after the pit. I definitely want to incorporate something like that into one of the lines. How would you layout some of the rollers/doubles and tables to make it flow. The distance on the outside lines from the end of one berm to the start of the next is about 95'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    CMC,good call on the inside 180 berm being too close to the outside 90. I was just thinking about that today when they were delivering the dirt. I had planned on building the outside 90's first and then the inside berms, since I have the room I think I will move the 180's more towards the inside of the track. I will be building rollable doubles and table tops for sure. I want my kids to be able to use the track as well but I don't want just a bunch of small little rollers. I like your idea about planning out the roller spacing as well. What size would you consider a small and a large roller? I really liked your idea about the doubles leading into the pit with the step-up after the pit. I definitely want to incorporate something like that into one of the lines. How would you layout some of the rollers/doubles and tables to make it flow. The distance on the outside lines from the end of one berm to the start of the next is about 95'.
    well, i can tell you some things we have done. there is definitely no single way to do it.

    these rollers at Hammerhead bike shop if I remember right I spaced them about 12 or 13 feet apart. they are about 14" to 18" high.


    in this pic are what i call the accelerating rollers, like the drawing above in the thread. this line is upgradient. each roller is bigger (both length and height) from the one before it and the space to the next one gets bigger. it was not easy to get right. i think we tore it down and rebuilt at least 3 times.... the last one is (first in the pic) is about 7 or 8 peak to peak, maybe 2'6" high



    this is a view of the other drawing, with the step down to step up.


    these type of bowls may be pretty tough to re-create on flat ground if you're not digging below gradient but building everything up instead. our big pits are 3-4 feet deep, meaning with a 1 foot roller they are almost like having 4 or 5 foot tall jumps....

    this is an idea i had..... i have not actually built it exactly like this, but pretty similar...having 11 foot bowls/pits peak to peak but then instead of a normal roller have a monster roller that is exactly half... i think it would create a feeling of floating over each roller--sort of jumping them with tires a couple inches off the surface. but 11 feet is pretty close together for peaks, so this would have a slow speed quick pump feel.... the 11 foot long pit also happens to coincide with the surface distance of an 8 foot radius 90 degree turn !!

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    Those ideas sound good. I brought in dirt but I still would like to dig down for some pits. I would have brought in less dirt but I have alot of sand and I want the track to last. 14" to 18" roller seem short to me but this is the first track I have ever built. How would a pit like the one in the picture be to roll thru and not jump? My boys are only 6 and 4 and aren't jumping yet. Is the spacing on the pit with the step-up similar to the drawing earlier in this thread? I know I will probably build some of these lines more than once to find out what works but it doesn't hurt to start out with a good plan.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    Those ideas sound good. I brought in dirt but I still would like to dig down for some pits. I would have brought in less dirt but I have alot of sand and I want the track to last. 14" to 18" roller seem short to me but this is the first track I have ever built. How would a pit like the one in the picture be to roll thru and not jump? My boys are only 6 and 4 and aren't jumping yet. Is the spacing on the pit with the step-up similar to the drawing earlier in this thread? I know I will probably build some of these lines more than once to find out what works but it doesn't hurt to start out with a good plan.
    the step down/step up pit we built is too big for 4 and 6 yrs old. our pump track is really a blend of traditional pump track with bmx trails/dirt jump dimensions...

    if you don't already have the the Leelikesbikes.com "Welcome to Pump Track Nation" e-book, i highly recommend it as a great starting point.
    i PM'd you...

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    I have Lee's book on pump tracks, and it has been usefull. I want the track to be a pump track with a bmxtrails/dj influence. The traditional pump track looks like it would be a great workout by itself, but I want more jumps than pumps. I know the pits will be too much for my boys right know so I plan to build some lines with smaller jumpable rollers for them. I want to encourage them as much as I can. I take them to a local abandon bmx track when I can and they love it. I will definitely be able to spend more time at the track if they come with me. PM sent.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    I have Lee's book on pump tracks, and it has been usefull. I want the track to be a pump track with a bmxtrails/dj influence. The traditional pump track looks like it would be a great workout by itself, but I want more jumps than pumps. I know the pits will be too much for my boys right know so I plan to build some lines with smaller jumpable rollers for them. I want to encourage them as much as I can. I take them to a local abandon bmx track when I can and they love it. I will definitely be able to spend more time at the track if they come with me. PM sent.
    speaking of abandoned BMX tracks....
    there is a lot you can learn about how BMX race tracks and how they work design-wise (both good tracks and bad tracks), and how they are different from both pump tracks and BMX "Trails." IMO a "next level" pump track takes influences both from bmx tracks and from trails (and maybe skateparks too). from bmx tracks, you take the mellowness and rollableness--you want to flow over stuff fast and low. peakyness or steep angles will throw off the natural flow... BMX trails is all about spacing--in rhythm sections you dive into one landing into a bowl and boost out the next lip... skatepark bowl corners will show a lot about berms...

    first off.... BMX tracks and starting hills.... here's an example of a starting hill that is seriously lacking for the size of the first jump. in BMX trails, riders generally want to drop in and hit something, or maybe take 3 to 5 cranks a couple of rollers and then hit something. this one, you'd have to crank like a maniac to hit the first table.



    next... rollers that are too short and peaky. there are two ways to fix this roller--get rid of it, or make it a lot bigger/mellower/longer, more like a wave, not like a speed bump.








    once again, rollers should not be bump--FLAT--bump---FLAT..... they should be waves.... about 7-10 wheelbarrows of dirt on each one of these would fix them....



    next... berms with too big off a radius basically aren't working for their intended purpose. note how the tire-packed area is not even on the berm.... the reason BMX track berms are huge is that riders are pedaling full speed. if you just want to cruise/flow through a pump track , you want MUCH smaller radius turns.


    this section was actually pretty good. 3 rollable doubles (tables with a little bit of camel-back shape to them) in a row. the problem here is simply speed. you have to come cranking like a crackhead around a mellow radius berm, then you hit these pretty long sets. in pump track or BMX trails terms, sets this size would be good at the bottom of a decline, but on flat ground they should just be shorter. 10-13 feet instead of 16-20.....



    pump track design can actually learn a lot from skateparks. (i skated for 10 years, bmx for 25).
    to be super-fluid and effortless, pump track berms IMO should be more like skatepark bowl corners than like traditional bmx track berms . .


    so... this berm at our spot is roughly an 8 foot radius (typical skatepark transition), only maybe 3 feet high at the most... but try to transition the face of the berm up in a skatepark bowl shape and you'll be able to lean a lot harder...... plus it just kinda looks cool..


    that's all for now.

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    nice picks of the crappy Allen BMX. They need to turn that thing into a dirt jump park

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    here's a little more motivation..........




    http://www.leelikesbikes.com/lyons-b...ride-sesh.html

  56. #56
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    very nice. one of those plate tampers has been on my DO WANT list.
    Tim M Hovey

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    Quote Originally Posted by euroford
    very nice. one of those plate tampers has been on my DO WANT list.
    bought one the other day, I use Pam no-stick to keep the dirt from clumping on it

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy Jim
    bought one the other day, I use Pam no-stick to keep the dirt from clumping on it
    BRILLIANT!

    our dirt has CRAZY high clay content, which makes for some bomber jumps, but it can be very hard to work with. any idea on how the tamp might work for breaking up clumps of dry stuff or packing down the wet crazy sticky stuff??
    Tim M Hovey

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    Finally got some time to work on the pump track plans again. I have an area cleared for the track with 100yds of clay waiting for me to get started.
    Here is the proposed plan. I think I have the outside lines figured out, the rollers will be about 10' peak to peak with 2 pits on the long sides that are 20' lip to landing. I still don't know what I want to do with the inside lines. I have indicated on the plan where there will be transfers from the outside to inside lines. I know some of this will change once we start moving dirt and riding it. I would appreciate any suggestions or ideas for some fun lines.I like CMC's ideas about monster rollers and pits and would like to incorporate the step-down to pit to step-up form earlier in this thread. The track is going to be more of a jump/pump track then a pure pump track. I will also be building a roll-in ramp where its noted on the plan, probably about 8' to 10' high. Track dimensions are 51'-8 x 117'-6".
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DJ , Pump Track plans-pump-track-post-email.jpg  


  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    Finally got some time to work on the pump track plans again. I have an area cleared for the track with 100yds of clay waiting for me to get started.
    Here is the proposed plan. I think I have the outside lines figured out, the rollers will be about 10' peak to peak with 2 pits on the long sides that are 20' lip to landing. I still don't know what I want to do with the inside lines. I have indicated on the plan where there will be transfers from the outside to inside lines. I know some of this will change once we start moving dirt and riding it. I would appreciate any suggestions or ideas for some fun lines.I like CMC's ideas about monster rollers and pits and would like to incorporate the step-down to pit to step-up form earlier in this thread. The track is going to be more of a jump/pump track then a pure pump track. I will also be building a roll-in ramp where its noted on the plan, probably about 8' to 10' high. Track dimensions are 51'-8 x 117'-6".
    Looks good, but at this point I think you just need to get started. Build the outside loop and ride it for a while THEN decide how you want the inside stuff. Leave the super technical stuff like 360 berms till later. I suggest just building the 4 corner berms first, with nothing in between, then ride it to get a feeling of how fast you'll want to be going. Spacing of rollers and jumps has everything to do with speed. Once you dig a pit it is SERIOUS pain to move it. Learned that the hard way.

    Here's another step down to step up we built (or at least started) last Saturday:
    Natural ravines/washouts/whatver you call 'em are great. you build a kicker or flat wedge drop 10-15 ft back from the decline. it purely depends on how much speed you want to crank into it with. we're still working on the landing.
    Last edited by cmc4130; 01-28-2010 at 11:02 PM.

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    I agree that I need to just get started. The only reason for all the planning right now is that I don't have a lot of help and I have 100 yds of dirt to move and that doesnt include digging the pits.. I am planning to bring in a bobcat to move the majority of the dirt and want to get as much done as possible with the machinery. Once thats done I know it will start taking shape. I know the only way to get it right is to ride it and find out what works and what doesn't.

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    FInally got a chance to move some dirt. I had about 100 yds of clay to move to get the track started. I brought in a bobcat for a few hours and got a lot accomplished. The outside berms and lines are in place as well as the dirt for the 360 berms, Now I just need to get a chance to get out there and start shaping and compacting the dirt. I will be bringing in more dirt for the exisiting rollers and the rest of the inside lines.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DJ , Pump Track plans-pump-4-email.jpg  

    DJ , Pump Track plans-pump-email-5.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    FInally got a chance to move some dirt. I had about 100 yds of clay to move to get the track started. I brought in a bobcat for a few hours and got a lot accomplished. The outside berms and lines are in place as well as the dirt for the 360 berms, Now I just need to get a chance to get out there and start shaping and compacting the dirt. I will be bringing in more dirt for the exisiting rollers and the rest of the inside lines.
    good goin !

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    this spot looks well-built, smooth, with creative lines.

    Johnson Pumptrack and Dirt Jumps

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    did another write-up in this thread:

    "dirt jump specs?"
    dirt jumps - specs?

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    Hi, and sorry to bump an old thread. i'm not a DJ'er by any means, but i'm building a pump track in a ~60'x30' space, and i was thinking of incorporating some of the ideas in this thread (along with Lee McCormack's).

    Quote Originally Posted by cmc4130
    you should definitely use natural terrain ups and downs. it's more challenging, but in the end it is way more fun.

    for going up a slight incline or gaining speed from a slow speed consider an accelerating rollers design:
    This "accelerating rollers" idea is one that i like. Does anyone here have any opinions on how well they would work if the track is bidirectional? that is, if a rider were coming down a slight slope, and encountered smaller, more frequent rollers as he descended, would it throw off the flow?

    i'll have some other questions later, but for now, thanks in advance for lending whatever knowledge you guys have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshben
    Hi, and sorry to bump an old thread. i'm not a DJ'er by any means, but i'm building a pump track in a ~60'x30' space, and i was thinking of incorporating some of the ideas in this thread (along with Lee McCormack's).

    This "accelerating rollers" idea is one that i like. Does anyone here have any opinions on how well they would work if the track is bidirectional? that is, if a rider were coming down a slight slope, and encountered smaller, more frequent rollers as he descended, would it throw off the flow?

    i'll have some other questions later, but for now, thanks in advance for lending whatever knowledge you guys have.
    it definitely feels different going the other direction, but it works. i usually roll the big one then double-manual the last two. maybe i'll get a vid of it.

  69. #69
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    wow, thanks for the quick response! you truly are an invaluable resource to this community.

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    hey Dr. B B, any riding pics or vids yet?

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    No riding pics yet. When I started the track work was really slow and then I got busy, which is a good thing. I have only had time for one ride a week and no time to build. Good news though, went out to the track on Wednesday with a buddy and started work again. We didn't have a lot of time but we we're able to rake out all the rollers and berms and start watering the dirt. I'm going to either rent or borrow a compactor to speed up the process. I can't wait to start riding the track. Now that I have some help I think building will start moving right along.

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    this roller in the street course at the new Cedar Park, Texas, skatepark is a good example of a bubbled over (or VW'd) roller shape that is not peaky.


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    now this is a serious Monster Roller.

    forget what you've learned about pump tracks having to have rollers that are no more than 18" tall.

    this will add some serious fun to a pump track.


    from
    http://leastmost.com/news/the-lord/

    by rounding off what would otherwise be a table, you make it perfect for scrubs....

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    in this drawing (which is to scale), 15" height from bottom of pit to peak of roller corresponds with roughly 12' (actually 11.875') spacing, if you're doing a 1:9.5 ratio.

    also note how the shape of the roller does not come up to a peak. it is just the inverse of a bowl, the top of a dome, VW beetle roof, however you want to think of it.

    also note that the radius i used to draw the rollers and pits would be roughly 7'6". SO.... if these rollers are heading into a berm, you could use a 7.5' radius for the berm, and the "wave" effect will feel consistent. the berm is really a sideways pit/trough/bowl.


    Last edited by cmc4130; 10-14-2010 at 02:22 PM.

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    quick edit from one afternoon (Kristen's 'K-dog'' birthday jam)


    as you may be able to tell, my philosophy of pump tracks (and the austin/bmx style of pump track) is a pump track with full sized tables and rollable doubles mixed in. it's a blend of bmx trails and "pump track").

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmc4130
    quick edit from one afternoon (Kristen's 'K-dog'' birthday jam)


    as you may be able to tell, my philosophy of pump tracks (and the austin/bmx style of pump track) is a pump track with full sized tables and rollable doubles mixed in. it's a blend of bmx trails and "pump track").

    that looks like one of the best spots Ive seen so far. due to everything looks rollable, yet, there are still some huge jumps in there to for people who can go big.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irocss85
    that looks like one of the best spots Ive seen so far. due to everything looks rollable, yet, there are still some huge jumps in there to for people who can go big.
    Yeah, I saw footage of that a few months ago and fell in love! That is still the best layout I have seen for a hybrid pump track and the prototype ideal for anything I may ever try to build.

    The blend of structures is just too fun! it is the most versatile track I know of. Any rider of any skill type and level can ride that thing and have a blast and feel like they are improving.

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    hey thanks ayenn and irocs . . . !

    here is a drawing of a beginner line of tables, followed by beginner/intermediate, followed by a sample of a more advanced line.

    the main thing for beginners is that a short gap does not necessarily make a jump easy. it's the steepness or mellowness that makes it easy. a beginner can clear 10 feet with the appropriate speed if a jump is mellow.

    as for the spacing, note that if you go by the guideline that your bowl should be roughly twice (but up to 3 times) the length of the gap you just cleared then you get a nice rhythm section with constant transition instead of having lots of flat space in between jumps.


    Last edited by cmc4130; 11-10-2010 at 04:41 PM.

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    This thread rocks! Just looking at those plans and photos gets my blood pumping. I've been contemplating buying some land and building my own private bike park to ride on. Especially since land is so freaking cheap right now in Arizona.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmc4130
    quick edit from one afternoon (Kristen's 'K-dog'' birthday jam)


    as you may be able to tell, my philosophy of pump tracks (and the austin/bmx style of pump track) is a pump track with full sized tables and rollable doubles mixed in. it's a blend of bmx trails and "pump track").
    MAN! that place has fun written all over it! SOOOO jealous! Is it city approved?!

    Austin eh? hrm... I need to start thinking of an excuse to go to Austin, hehe (for the GF, that spot is all the excuse I need)

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    i'm posting this just to show what a difference some added height and steepness on a berm can make. this is the same berm going from relatively boring to gnarly corner-pocket-launcher.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    FInally got a chance to move some dirt. I had about 100 yds of clay to move to get the track started. I brought in a bobcat for a few hours and got a lot accomplished. The outside berms and lines are in place as well as the dirt for the 360 berms, Now I just need to get a chance to get out there and start shaping and compacting the dirt. I will be bringing in more dirt for the exisiting rollers and the rest of the inside lines.

    Nice work! I gota ask thoughif the chainlink is temporary or permanent. I know it would bother me to be jumping adjacent to a fence like that...just one more thing that could go wrong if you bobble slightly (hook bars). Looks really cool though.

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    The lost art of the "Long and Low" or "Fast and Low." This is based around a 30 degree arc radius. The goal is not to go high, it's to go fast and stay low. This type of setup can be a great addition to your trails especially if you put steeper sets later on down the line. Because I drew the landing as a bowl with no flat space (and the bowl length is 1.5 times, rather than twice the length of the gap), the next lip will come at you pretty quick. However, that's pretty typical in on bmx race track rhythm sections so it's good to get used to.

    Remember with 2 or 3 foot tall jumps, you have to make the transition mellower than a taller jump, or else there is not enough wheelbase on the surface of the jump for your bike to transition from flat ground without it feeling abrupt. You can't put 70 degrees of arc on a lip 3 feet tall--it will be virtually unrideable. On the other hand, a 6 foot tall lip with 70 degrees of arc is a gnarly booster.





    As for 'degrees of arc' and trajectory. . . . keep in mind that riders can boost off a flatter jump and go into a higher trajectory path, or they can 'suck up the lip' (aka 'racering' a lip) to prevent the jump from sending them too high, so they can stay lower and faster. The jump does some of the work, but you and your bike do the rest.
    Last edited by cmc4130; 12-02-2010 at 03:19 PM.

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    video from Cedar Park / Austin - Public Dirt Jump/Pump Track build day

    i did already post this in the trail building forum, but it would go well in this thread too. my crew will be out there again this weekend getting stuff dialed--it's not my local spot (it's about 25 miles away) but i some of my crew lives out there. so, the more spots to ride the better.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ3OdYeNxgU

    Saturday and Sunday. 16 hours labor. 10.5 hours Bobcat run time. $40 in diesel. Shown in video: Line of roller and 4 big tabletops completed.
    Not shown in video: Another line of 2 berms, table and roller, dirt moved into place but not shaped and packed. A third line of 1 table, 135 degree berm and 4 rollers moved into place and only partly shaped/packed. (Not shown in video).

    From experience, my advice is even with a Bobcat, do not underestimate the amount of time and skilled labor required for shaping and packing !!

    Thanks to Austin Ridgeriders Mountain Bike Club/ for contributing the cost of the Bobcat rental.

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    Very cool time-lapse of pump track being hand-dug. Note that they are digging from the riding line, not next to it, or from some other big hole. This is a good method, although it will create pits that hold water. There are ways to address that though, like having a slot drain next to the roller line.

    http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/membe...78/drkost,1816

    "Here is a start-to-finish time lapse of the 604 pump track construction. We built the track in seven days over a period of two months. Thanks to everyone who volunteered their time and effort. Special thanks to Matt at North Shore Bike Shop. For more info check out http://dirtwest.blogspot.com Credit: dirtwest "

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    this spot, which my friends built in the course of about 3 months, is a good demonstration of how, when you have flat ground, you may want to build a long crank-in run-up or, alternatively, a wood drop in. note that an 8 foot tall drop in was not quite tall enough to immediately be able to hit a double, without having a roller before it. spacing of the gaps and pits (lip to landing distance versus distance across the bowl to the next pit) roughly follows the rule that if your jump is 10 foot, lip to landing, you want at least double ( 20 feet) from the top of the landing to the lip of the next jump. you can go up to 23 or 25 . . .but if you go longer, then you will have serious slowness problem. the more you bowl down, the tighter you can put them. if you have actual flat space in between, it doesn't matter as much--but who really wants to have to put in a crank between sets??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi1t...layer_embedded

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    Even though it's true you have to deal with water issues, digging from the riding line by using the pit/bowl method of construction speeds things up, for the reason that every shovel you dig down, you are effectively also building the line up. It's like double digging. The end result is a very clean looking line of dirt jumps because you are not digging random holes off to the side.




    [ EDIT (3/9/11): The jumps, which my friends built, in this video are designed and spaced pretty close to the above drawing (except maybe with 28' or so between top of landing to next lip): ]

    This cover of the DIG MAGAZINE Trails issue is a very good visual of the end result. Note how the builders did not dig out the gap between the launch and landing (lame!!).

    To deal with water filling up pits, there are several methods--the best of which is digging an even deeper slot or deep/skinny dugout hole which you can then cover over with plywood or with stratgically placed flat rock. The water will drop down and soak downwards, allowing the riding line of the pit to not hold water.


    Last edited by cmc4130; 03-09-2011 at 04:08 PM.

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    great example of a mellow lip for the first set and steeper stuff after that:


    from:
    http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listco...56&pagenum=789

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    This is a very well-done design for a public park:
    Superior Bike Park in Superior, CO

    http://www.leelikesbikes.com/photos-...bike-park.html


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    This was an awesome spot that just got dozed. (The perspective and camera lens makes the jumps look shorter than they actually were though).

    It's also a good illustration of the pit/bowl method of building, where you dig from the riding line to make the jumps. You might think of it as more like consecutive half-pipes dug into the ground.

    For a cleaner look, try to avoid digging next to the line to build the jumps . . . Dig only from the riding line. If you end up needing more dirt later and don't want to dig the bowl down more, then wheelbarrow it over from a future bowl. ... It requires a little more planning because as you build your landing you're also using some of the dirt from the pit/bowl to build the next launch. In the end, though, it's worth it, because your trails won't have moon craters.

    You can dig french drain style slots/holes to let the water drop down (all you need is for there to be a part of the pit that is deeper than the riding line of the pit... although if you're in a super rainy area, this may or may not work.


    photo by T.S.
    Last edited by cmc4130; 04-15-2011 at 08:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmc4130
    cmc, you have the horizontal distances documented here real nicely, can you throw some vertical guidelines in. I'm going to shoot for something like this on the pump line line I have going. I want it to be more pump/jump like your drawing here.
    Transition Bank
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    Transition Covert

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    One thing I haven't talked about yet on here are "Roller-Tables." They are an essential part of a rad pump track (or even bmx/mtbmx 'trails') in my opinion. For lack of a better word, they are blend of both a roller and a tabletop. They are not table-top jumps because the goal is to not really to jump but rather to stay super close and skim the top, and they are not rollers because they do not bubble up or have a bowl top lid--they flatten out. You're basically building a low-to-the-ground table top (anywhere from 1' to 3' tall, of varying lengths depending on your speed), then instead of having typical "lips" or corners at the lip and landing, you curve/fade the corner off, so that the lip/landing edges are rounded over. This allows the rider to stay low on the table for "un-air." Common in bmx racing. Staying low means going faster.



    One of the cool things about roller tables is that because you can skim over them, a lot of times you can do cool nose manuals across them and then pump the backside really hard.



    D.L. at WCPT

    O.M.P. at WCPT (photo by 9thstreetbmx)


    sometimes you will see roller-table style designs in cement skateparks. i couldn't find a better picture than this . . . but imagine if you were hitting the roller-table style pyramid in the middle of this park and just trying to stay low and pumping for speed (and the two grindboxes weren't there):
    Last edited by cmc4130; 04-26-2011 at 03:49 PM.

  94. #94
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    check this backyard build.

    A backyard pump track is born!

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    The Physics of Trails Flow . . . .

    While I definitely don't think trails should be too mathematical / predictible / cookie-cutter, there is something weirdly addicting about a line that has an effortless, almost rhythmic flow. Every jump puts you right where you need to be for the speed that you have (without any special body english), and the next lip doesn't come at you too fast or too slow.

    It took me a while to figure out the connection with waves; when I first started digging, I learned some rules of thumb from older riders (e.g. the distance from top of landing to top of next lip should be roughly double the gap you just cleared) . . . but I never quite put my finger on why that was.

    It's not that jumps look like waves or even that they are spaced the same way that waves in the ocean would be . . . It's the rider's position over points in time has a consistency that is wave-like. Wave motion itself ( UP - DOWN - UP - DOWN .....) has a certain feeling to it that people intuitively recognize. Like if you're sitting on a boat and feeling the waves, or if you're listening to music with a good rhythm (most songs don't randomly speed up and slow down). It's a position or feeling over different points in time. If you space dirt jump sets erratically, you won't "feel" like you're riding across the terrain in a wave-motion.

    Not every line has to be this way. Variety is good. Sometimes 'tech' sets should throw you off a little and make you work for it (e.g. "racer" one set, boost another) and sometimes it's good to add weird elements like a waterfall, or rollers that you have to manual over to make it work..... But, as a starting point at least . . . consider 'wave' spacing......

    Hopefully this is helpful! :




    So remember, it's not that you make the jumps look like these waves. It's that the rider's highest point in the air, from one point to the next, is the "peak" . . . and the "peaks" are evenly spaced (over time) the same way the peaks of water waves are evenly spaced..... I say evenly spaced over time because if your jump line is on a decline and you are gaining speed, every set could actually get both longer-gap and longer distance to the next jump, but the rider is still going to hit each peak in the air every x number of seconds.

    Last edited by cmc4130; 04-28-2011 at 10:17 AM.

  96. #96
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    Last night I figured what the heck and started digging in the empty lot behind the house. Terrible location: pancake flat, bakes in the sun most of the day with zero shade, will have a house built on it sooner or later; but I figured if I can get a small track rolling for a while I can learn some things.
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    Not near as dialed as some of the others (or all of them) but here is my solo build



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh4Jy...eature=related

  98. #98
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    Best place ive ever ridden is the I street jumps in salt lake city. Here is a good video from helmet cam of what looks like last years set up, good amount of building since then. You get to see some of the berms and mini pump track (i guess u can call it that) at the end after the ladder jumps. Either way there are a bunch of cool ideas and things in this park. Most of the stuff is relatively big and not for beginners, if this is the guy's cam i think it is, he is about 6'4.

    http://youtu.be/v70kUJlb5mA

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    Cool video.

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    Not sure if it has allready been mentioned; but when building a pumptrack, there should never be any flat surfaces on the track. It should either be going up, down, or turning.
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