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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    . . . the area we are working with has a 5% natural Grade loss as well we will put probably a 6ft tall starting hill for the jumps. The jump line we have around 400 linear feet to work with. I am looking for input on the spacing and jump size. We are looking to do more of the big step up style jumps and are really going for more of the lofty competition style jumps over the tight trail rhythm style jumps but not extremely huge so how far peak to peak for the jumps, how tall should the lip be to the landing and how far would you all recommend between jumps?
    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    kind of like this picture . . .
    I'm thinking kind of like the last jump in this video but smaller Martin Söderström and Xavi Pasamonte at Morrilla trails - Just for fun - YouTube

    dose like a 4ft lip and 7 ft landing with maybe 5-6 ft peak to peak seem appropriate for the first jumps in the line of probably 5-6?
    . . . .

    The jump in the video you mentioned appears to be around 22 feet lip to landing (just going by the bike being 5'6".


    Based on your description, I think jumps in the 12 to 18 foot range (peak to peak) would be appropriate.
    If you watch this video of one of our spots (my bro Abel built it), , you'll see the bigger sets on the left are 18 peak to peak; the medium line on the right has gaps around 12'.
    More pics in this thread: Allied Compound -- End of the World Jam - January 2012

    Five to six feet gap peak to peak is not good. Remember a typical DJ-mtb is about 5 1/2 feet front to back, so two bike lengths (11 feet) is an absolute minimum gap. Short-gap jumps can be blasted high, but only in a spine-riding style, which it doesn't sound like you're going for. This is what you described might look like:
    (pic from Odyssey's Texas Toast Jam, Austin TX. Watch the video and see how guys hit it. The other dirt jumps were around 14' lip to landing. (I paced one of them). 2012 Texas Toast Jam: Dirt Final Highlights - TransWorld RideBMX - YouTube. (Also note the roll-in off the railroad car. 6' tall is not tall enough for a roll-in. Go with 10'-12'+.

    I can't tell you exactly what 5% grade will mean in terms of jump spacing (gaps and bowl lengths). Until some physicist figures it out for us, the absolute best way is to go from experience of spots that have already been built, or build one jump at a time and have your riders figure out what they're comfortable with. I would say verrrry roughly... you could do something like:
    /11\_25_/12\_28_/13\_31_/14\_34_/15\_37_/16\_____
    What that means is 11 foot gap, then 25 feet from TOP of landing to TOP of next lip (i.e. the "bowl" length), then 12 foot gap, etc. Note that 11 gap then bowl length of 22, would be the old guideline of bowl being double the length of the gap you just cleared. I'm adding on a little. Double +3, +4, +5, +6, +7 for the reason that if you're increasing speed because of the downgradient, the bowl will move under you quicker, so each bowl should also get stretched longer to anticipate the longer jump following it.... However, I could also see spacing them out even more. Like 2.5 to 3 times the gaps. You will only know from riding it. Note, also, that you don't have to do the consecutive bowl design. You could put more flat space in between jumps and it's not going to feel 'dead' because it's still downgradient. If you were to build wood launches, you could move them to adjust--and they'd be more durable in the long run. (Although some purists don't like em).

    Lastly, don't you guys want to work in some berms, wall rides, etc.? You can make it more interesting than just a big straight line of jumps. Look at some Crankworx videos for inspiration....
    Crankworx Colorado, Winter Park:
    Last edited by cmc4130; 04-06-2013 at 08:46 PM.

  2. #202
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    DJ , Pump Track plans-1-3-.jpg

    Thanks for the info, there is going to be berms, there will be a straight line but the first hit will have a hip right and left option that what those berms on both side are, then you hit a lip and land in a slight hip take the berm hit another jump and then have the option to hit a bigger jump or hip back into the other line... does that make sense looking at the picture? we have to pack a lot into the are, not just a dirt jump spot

  3. #203
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    " /11\_25_/12\_28_/13\_31_/14\_34_/15\_37_/16\_____
    What that means is 11 foot gap, then 25 feet from TOP of landing to TOP of next lip (i.e. the "bowl" length), then 12 foot gap, etc. Note that 11 gap then bowl length of 22, would be the old guideline of bowl being double the length of the gap you just cleared."

    on this how big is the first lip to be? in this example... I'm not sure a 10ft starting ramp will happen... will depend on the city, liability and how much dirt they will give us as well, it is in a city park

  4. #204
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    "Five to six feet gap peak to peak is not good. Remember a typical DJ-mtb is about 5 1/2 feet front to back, so two bike lengths (11 feet) is an absolute minimum gap. Short-gap jumps can be blasted high, but only in a spine-riding style, which it doesn't sound like you're going for. This is what you described might look like:"

    In a way that is what we are looking for shoot you really high, big hang time kind of thing but i get what you are saying... does this 11 ft min apply if the jumps are all going to be this big step up style? were the landing is 3 + feet higher then the take off? like 4ft high lip 7ft high landing?

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    " /11\_25_/12\_28_/13\_31_/14\_34_/15\_37_/16\_____
    What that means is 11 foot gap, then 25 feet from TOP of landing to TOP of next lip (i.e. the "bowl" length), then 12 foot gap, etc. Note that 11 gap then bowl length of 22, would be the old guideline of bowl being double the length of the gap you just cleared."

    on this how big is the first lip to be? in this example... I'm not sure a 10ft starting ramp will happen... will depend on the city, liability and how much dirt they will give us as well, it is in a city park
    the standard bmx/mtb box jump is roughly like this.


    it is drawn with the gap (or table length lip to landing) as double the height. i.e. 4 tall, 8 gap. 5 tall, 10 gap. however, in bmx / mtb-dj trails, a lot of times the gap is up to 3 times as long as the height. like 5 tall, 15 gap. 6 tall, 18' gap. the gap is set by the speed you're going. you could have a 3 foot tall long and low where you still clear 18 feet if that's how fast you're going.



    even when guys are going high, they still travel more distance horizontally:


    so here's a concept plan i just drew for you. note, it is NOT A DESIGN PLAN. adding one foot of gap per jump is just something i'm guessing at here, because i have not been to your spot, or tested it on a 5% gradient. you ALWAYS build to the terrain and to the rider, not to a piece of paper or printout from the internet !! natural landscape is never exactly flat like an indoor bikepark warehouse. therefore, spacing has to be adjusted on the fly. also, i added extra space in between the sets, because at some point in time you might want your tables to be longer, so you'll have room to make them bigger.


    if you are not an experienced builder, then i strongly suggest getting with your mountain bike club and other groups, potentially hiring a design/build contractor etc. before going to the city with "plans."
    GOOD LUCK !

    EDIT: here's another concept plan that adds a little more 'features' and creates a loop to get back to the beginning. You've got a monster roller in between jumps for a more surfy/flowy style... Then a freeride-style step-up step-down platform. Drawn here as flat.. But it could also be a dish/swoosh shape (like at Crankworx). Then the quarter to curved slant wall at the end could be done different ways... Then mellower rollers and roller-tabes to get back to the startin hill/platform.....
    Last edited by cmc4130; 04-03-2013 at 12:12 PM.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    "Five to six feet gap peak to peak is not good. Remember a typical DJ-mtb is about 5 1/2 feet front to back, so two bike lengths (11 feet) is an absolute minimum gap. Short-gap jumps can be blasted high, but only in a spine-riding style, which it doesn't sound like you're going for. This is what you described might look like:"

    In a way that is what we are looking for shoot you really high, big hang time kind of thing but i get what you are saying... does this 11 ft min apply if the jumps are all going to be this big step up style? were the landing is 3 + feet higher then the take off? like 4ft high lip 7ft high landing?
    even with the big step up style, like the Martin Soderstrom video... that lip was probably about 8 tall and the gap was (guessing) about 22'. almost three times the distance as the height.

    here's a smaller step-up.


    Tonic Fab News

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    Dude, thanks for the drawing, pictures and videos, all great examples! you are for sure a wealth of knowledge. We will definitely take your input into consideration. There is a group of people doing the design and build work and I will share this with them.
    The main reason I put this up was to see if there was some sort of rule of thumb for the spacing on a down slope. As you said you don't really build jumps by number but the double the gap rule for spacing I've roughly followed in the past but most of the time it is build by feel. However I have never built on a down slope and I'm not 100% sure about the others so I was just doing my research to be as ready as possible as we do have to have some rough numbers for the city. Those engineer people like numbers, haha. Thanks again!

  8. #208
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    Why don't you find local dirt jumpers and get their input?

    I see trails built out here quite often where the builder isn't a jumper/racer but doesn't want any input on the trail they are making(which is being built for jumping/racing).

    When the trail is completed, there are complaints about how it rides, safety issues, etc.

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    We have some local riders input, just not that many have stepped forward. A lot like to do what you mentioned show up after the fact and give their 2 cents then. We have also got a fair amount of resistance from a few local BMX riders about bringing "their" sport main stream and making it "public" and not the old school back woods style, as well as that these new "mainstream" jumps and bike parks are being built by the MTB riders....

    i wish they would all show up during the planning/design phase and at the building to provide their valuable input and experience so that it is built right and will make them happy because the point of building this is not just for myself and the small group of us building it to ride but for everyone to enjoy and to draw more people to Cottage Grove and to the sport.

    I was just doing some independent research prior to building to make sure we put out the best product we can! We have invited as many people as we can reach to come to the planning meetings and to the building days to help build and provide their input and 2 of the people on the plan/build crew are a couple of BMX guys that have built quite a bit and I'm not green at this at either. I have been racing bmx since 12 and riding dirt jumps and mtb for about 5 year now, so I ride and all the people involved ride. We aren't pro trail builders or riders though. There aren't a lot of places to ride around here though and most the stuff is underground stuff and is either so secret that you can't find it to ride and no one will tell you who built it or it is tore down in the same summer it is built.

    I am part of the local MTB club MORC and we are pushing now for legit places for alternative riding= bike parks-dirt jumps/pump tracks and we built one in Eagan Mn and it has got good reviews so far from the local riders but still is a work in progress but it was built to the double the gap rhythm style spacing and pretty much on a flat piece of land. There might be about 1% grade loss and that is the case with all the dirt jumps I've ever rode here.

    Growing up in the mid-west not a lot of elevation but the piece of land the city gave us to work with does have 5% grade and it is new territory so like cmc said it will be a bit of trial and error. I hope tons of hardcore riders show up on build days and help/provide their input, since we haven't got a lot so far. We have also consulted with IMBA trail solutions as well.

    Thanks again for all the input, suggestions and advice!
    Last edited by cglasford; 04-03-2013 at 08:13 AM.

  10. #210
    pnj
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    Sounds awesome!

    Keep us updated on your progress.

  11. #211
    YRG
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    DJ , Pump Track plans

    I would like to get a little input about spacing, height and radius. My goal is something inbetween a normal pump track and a bmx track. Or a very fast pump track. Any thoughts on roller spacing and height (26 ft n 2). How about berm radius (12) ?
    I have only worked on a couple tracks and the experienced builders are versed in trail, park and jumps not pump tracks. Also wondering about what kind of jumps can be incorporated without giving up speed.
    Thanks

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    . . .
    The main reason I put this up was to see if there was some sort of rule of thumb for the spacing on a down slope. As you said you don't really build jumps by number but the double the gap rule for spacing I've roughly followed in the past but most of the time it is build by feel. However I have never built on a down slope and I'm not 100% sure about the others so I was just doing my research to be as ready as possible as we do have to have some rough numbers for the city. Those engineer people like numbers, haha. Thanks again!

    Time to get all Isaac Netwonian and go out there with your bike and conduct some experiments



    Rule of thumb: the distance you travel with a good big bunnyhop at a certain speed, can tell you a lot about how far you'll go off a jump at the same speed. As you can see here, 15 degree trajectory and the 75 degree trajectory put you in the same spot. Same with 30 and 60. 45 degrees is slightly farther. 15 degree gets you half the distance as 45 degree. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the angle of the jump--it's the trajectory of the rider after they have left the ramp. (Riders aren't bowling balls; a rider could 'boost' a relatively flat-faced jump and still go into a 60 degree trajectory, or they could 'racer' a jump and suck it up and keep a low trajectory even on a steeper jump).

    So.... you could coast down that hill and see how much farther your bunnyhops get. Get some volunteers to lie down to test your theories.


    CalcTool: Object on a slope calculator

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by YRG View Post
    I would like to get a little input about spacing, height and radius. My goal is something inbetween a normal pump track and a bmx track. Or a very fast pump track. Any thoughts on roller spacing and height (26 ft n 2). How about berm radius (12) ?
    I have only worked on a couple tracks and the experienced builders are versed in trail, park and jumps not pump tracks. Also wondering about what kind of jumps can be incorporated without giving up speed.
    Thanks
    there's a lot of stuff on that earlier in this thread.... so be sure to go back and check it out. i'd have to see the terrain that you have. at my spot, , the jumps are between 10-13 feet lip to landing, with most being 11'-12'. the rollers are also spaced about 12' (except in the 'accelerating rollers section'). the monster rollers and roller-tables are also pretty consistent with the 10-12ish peak-to-peak. i tend to use arms-oustretched-with-rake as a berm radius (roughly 7 1/2' or 8' ish) for berms that you pump. that's also pretty consistent with cement skateparks that commonly use 8 foot radius transitions. if you need a berm to soak up some speed at the bottom of a decline, then you need a bigger radius. then there are different shaped berms, the ribbon style, the wave, the catcher's mit,... heh.

  14. #214
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    Took a couple shots of my friend Dan's backyard pump track. It's fast as shit and much better looking in person!









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    Couple of questions for those who have built pump tracks:

    Where do you guys recommend placement of the berm entry/exit rollers? My local trail boss recommended 50cm from where the berm ends, which seems reasonable, but I'm open to suggestions. At a guess, the berms are ~190º as one side is slightly tighter and closes in on the loop. The photo of the pump track above looks like the entry/exit rollers are closer to 1m rather than 50cm.

    Also, pump track nation recommends 1 foot (~30.5cm) rollers with a 1 to 10 ratio, so 305cm between the peaks. However, the track is around 24m in length, and there will 5 rollers on each side of the run (2m berm radius plus 2 entry/exit rollers and 3 in the middle).

    What I'm not sure of, is it better to:

    (a) keep all the rollers at a consistent height and spacing (40cm and 400cm)
    (b) drop all rollers to ~31cm and leave the spacing at 400cm.
    (c) drop height and spacing of some rollers to fit.

    (a) or (b) are going to be easiest, but if it's (c), is it better to drop the height of entry/exit rollers or middle rollers?

    Hope that makes sense I know the track will need tweaking once done, but it's a major pain to get dirt into the site, so if I can avoid re-working now it will save a lot of hassle in the future. Cheers!

    Update:
    Measure twice dig once! One set of rollers was actually 34cm x 3.4m and the other 35cm x 3.5m, so figured it should be low enough to keep the 1:10 spacing.
    Last edited by si618; 04-28-2013 at 06:37 PM.

  16. #216
    YRG
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    Berms with or without out entry/exit rollers?

    Hi, wondering if anyone will share about rollers on entry/exit of berms. What is good/bad about them.
    Why put them in/ Why leave them out?
    If you leave them out would you consider the exit of the berm a trough and start climbing into a roller?

    I am in the thick of design right now and a little under the gun because Sunday we are probably going to move dirt.

    Thanks for any input

  17. #217
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    I like them on both entrance and exit if the berms aren't super tight. If I put a feature that is larger, say a double or step down right before the berm I will leave them out as you will carry more speed with out one. I feel they are there to help you generate speed into and out of the berm as many people struggle to actually pump a berm. I don't have exact sizes on the berms I don't use them on but I'd say I have either a roller in and out on 90% of the pump tracks i've built and seen unless there is a large feature that will carry crazy speed in the berm.
    the good thing about dirt is you can put them in and take them out or add them later. I would doubt if this is your first pump track it will be dialed on your first build... good luck

  18. #218
    pnj
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    Depends on many variables.

    How fast/slow is that section of track?
    Is the section of track up hill/downhill?
    Will that section of track hold water?
    etc.

    I think rollers into and out of berms are great. You can use them to gain or scrub speed but I don't think it's a hard rule that you can fit them into every berm you create.

    Where are you building your track? (what state/city)
    do you have pictures?

  19. #219
    YRG
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    Quote Originally Posted by pnj View Post
    Depends on many variables.

    How fast/slow is that section of track?
    Is the section of track up hill/downhill?
    Will that section of track hold water?
    etc.

    I think rollers into and out of berms are great. You can use them to gain or scrub speed but I don't think it's a hard rule that you can fit them into every berm you create.

    Where are you building your track? (what state/city)
    do you have pictures?
    Track is flat (almost)
    Will be adding drainage, so it should not be a concern
    We also have more dirt than we can possibly use so the track will be raised
    Trying for fast
    Looking at 12ft spacing between rollers, so a little more than 12" tall
    We are in Park City Ut and right now it is a leveled blank slate with a large roll in and a few features placed, but no current pics.

  20. #220
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    "We also have more dirt than we can possibly use" is this possible? haha jam pack that baby! you can burn through some serious dirt in a serious hurry.

    but raising the track is a great idea to let it dry faster. I try to do that with all the track i've built

    How big of an area do you have to work with? how many yard of dirt do you have?

    Can I make a suggestion that maybe you go a little larger then 12 inches on the rollers.... maybe more like 24 inches I've built quite a few and the little kids love the smaller rollers but most of the older riders like the larger roller/featured pump tracks I've built and the young ins can still ride it... perhaps make one smaller one for the youngins and the the rest of the space make a killer pump track, also higher berms let you carry more speed in and out of the corners....

  21. #221
    YRG
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    Got about 1000yds
    I was thinking about bigger on the rollers. I am worried about the 10 to 1 rule and our spacing is looking good for 12' peak to peak.
    The berms will be about 4' tall
    We want a track that carries lots of speed. I'll try to post up some pics this evening.

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    I tried to follow that rule for the first few tracks but really you have to just eye ball it and ride it and ride what feels good, just remember don't get them too tight and don't have any flat spots, constant up and down.... the spacing can be tweeked a little depending on the bikes you are building it for, dj bikes seem to ride better on bigger rollers large spacing then on the smaller tighter spacing that a 20inch can rip... but a 20 inch can still rip hard on the bigger ones... build, ride, fix, build ride, fix... it will take some time... good luck

    1000yrds is a lot but how big of any area do you have to fill?

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    and mix it up too... don't build all the same size rollers... get creative! keep it interesting you will like it!

  24. #224
    pnj
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    I would think you wouldn't need a roll in. seems like you'll be going too fast at the start....

    The thing with dirt is, if it doesn't work, you can always change it.

    I don't know if your blueprints/plans will allow it but the best thing about making a pump track is making one that isn't the same as all the other pump tracks.

    elevated rollers, S-berms, alternate routes, weird and odd berms, etc.

    Have fun!

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by YRG View Post
    Hi, wondering if anyone will share about rollers on entry/exit of berms. What is good/bad about them.
    Why put them in/ Why leave them out?
    If you leave them out would you consider the exit of the berm a trough and start climbing into a roller?

    . . .
    One effect of entrance/exit rollers can be to affect the line the rider takes around a berm and how they compress into it. Back in this post, I talked about high-low-high versus low-high-low paths around a turn:
    DJ , Pump Track plans

    If you check out this video, Pump track M berms. - YouTube,note how the rider starts high then sort of lunges/compresses down around the berm, then de-compresses/extends the body on the exit for the 'up.' In this example, the rollers are completely blended into the berm itself. Depending on how it's blended you could think of it as taking a shape of a macaroni and then tilting the two ends up.

    Quote Originally Posted by YRG View Post
    Got about 1000yds
    I was thinking about bigger on the rollers. I am worried about the 10 to 1 rule and our spacing is looking good for 12' peak to peak.
    The berms will be about 4' tall
    We want a track that carries lots of speed. I'll try to post up some pics this evening.
    A berm where the riding line is low does not have to be tall. 4 feet tall is great if you have tons of dirt....but I wouldn't say it's necessary to have a fast track. You can have a 2 foot tall steep faced berm that is very fast.

    If you did not use rollers (or you pull the rollers farther back from the entrance/exit), riders would either simply ride the berm horizontally... or they might try to carve up the face of the berm. Carving up the face of a berm and then down on exit could be thought of like the "macaroni" tilted the other way, with two ends down. The result would be a low-high-low turn like this:
    A low-high-low berm does have to be taller. Point being, there can be a lot of different interesting ways to do it, and it's good to envision the riders' lines....

    I agree with cglasford to consider larger rollers as well. However a couple of caveats with that. A taller roller often should be less peaky (more domed over) than a shorter one. The goal of a pump track is to go fast and low in a horizontal direction; if a roller is tall and peaky, your body will have too much up/down accomodation to keep both wheels on the ground (although you can manual as a 'work-around'). The second caveat is rollers and speed-----what speed really does is stretch out your body's up/down positions on the track.... So, with a roller-table, like in this picture... the normal backside would be where the dotted line curves down, except now it's stretched. A rider going a certain speed can get 'weightless' (but low) over the center part (either manualing or jumping). The length of the roller table should be calibrated to how fast a typical rider is going. If I had a fast section going into a turn, I might use a stretched out roller-table before the turn, instead of a regular roller.



    DJ , Pump Track plans

    domed-over 'monster' roller


    Although this is xc/flow trail, not a pump track, it can still apply---I like to extend the second half of berms longer, then have a 'down' transition to 'land/compress' on. So the exit roller is not like a bump-turn-bump. it's more like lean-curve-up-then-drop....
    This is a view of one we did from the bottom looking back up the trail (rider will be coming down from the right and exiting towards the camera.

    How many years have you been building "Flow country Trails"?

  26. #226
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead!

    Lovin the input here, Thanks. Macaroni up or down sounds fun. So some berms with bumps and some without sounds like the right approach. Thought I would post up a few pics of the space as it looks today.
    Here is the whole layout. The pile of dirt far right is one of our stacks.
    If you see furthest back there is a high dirt line, that is top level of the 3 level track. Main level is the biggest. The lowest berm on the left is the bottom level.
    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_0462.jpg
    Jump line will feed the big bottom berm.
    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_0465.jpg
    Right behind the skid you can see the high line. Hoping it will have at least a couple jumps down to the main level.
    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_0464.jpg
    Best picture of the high line. The big pile on the right will roll in straight to the camera and left staying on top. Pretty stoked on the possibilities here.
    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_0459.jpg
    Think I'm going to start with a loop inside a loop and see where that goes.

  27. #227
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    front yard pump track

    This is my first build using a machine and imported dirt and i gotta say it's nice. The area Im working with is roughly 80'x40' and it slopes in one corner. I had to add drainage in this corner because of the large berm and roller that made a catch for the water. We dug down about 10'' below the lowest point of where the puddle formed and put in 4'' drain pipe, back filled with rock and wrapped that with filter cloth. back filled with sand and a layer of top soil to finish. It's not a fast moving drain like a down spout but, more like a leach. Got the outer line roughed in and got more dirt coming this weekend to finish the in field. Then put the bike on it and ride tweak repet
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    Last edited by rottendan; 08-29-2013 at 05:50 AM.
    coastin' along

  28. #228
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    looking really sick!

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    cottage grove bike park

    Things are finally starting to come together.... We have been working on the 4x track with a Bulldozer, excavator, front end loaders and skid steer. We had our first build week last week from 7/11- 7/18 and we are having our first community build day this Saturday. Great support from the city and a local excavating company so we have moved aroudn 4500 cubic yrds of dirt so far and have over 1000yrds sitting on the side ready to be put into place.
    check it out
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cotta...96908407004866

    here are some pictures of it so far

    DJ , Pump Track plans-cgbp1.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-cgbp2.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-cgbp3.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-cgbp4.jpg

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    Looks awesome

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    here is a link to some more pictures from our last build
    MOUNTAIN BIKING

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    I joined this site today just to say thank you to all the people that have contributed to this thread. I hope to start messing with a backyard track for my daughter and I to play around on soon.
    Slowly getting back into it... one bump at a time.

  33. #233
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    So we continue to push on and build, remember this park is built 100% by volunteers up until this point at least and on a really limited budget but here are a couple pictures
    DJ , Pump Track plans-park1.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-park2.jpg

    here is a video of it


    we are having a fund raiser on 9/14 to help get some more cash to continue building https://www.facebook.com/events/1375990429292993/

    check us out on facebook
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cotta...96908407004866

  34. #234
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    Whoa. Looks fun, but way, waaaaayyy too many flat spots and therefore pedaling in between everything. Just my .02.

    Done right (at least, in my mind) you should pedal off the start hill then never again.

  35. #235
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    That would be one crazy pump track but I haven't seen many 4x or BMX tracks were you don't have to pedal.. it is a fun track and you don't have to pedal all that much. More rollers could be added pretty easily though

  36. #236
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    Awesome thread! I just finished one in my backyard. I'm building a workshop and rented a backhoe to dig the footings and the pile of dirt was freaking huge. I had never ridden a pump track before but watched videos on the net and they looked like a blast and since I had the machine I moved around one run of future rollers along my block wall and left the remaining pile in the center of my yard. Because of the shop, a tree and a kids play set that is in the works a L shaped track seemed best. After eyeballing the first run of rollers I figured it would be smart to do 5 minutes of research and I purchased Lee's Pump Track book. It turns out my eyeball was pretty decent and the piles were all roughly 9-11 feet apart. Everything else I moved by hand.

    One thing I needed to consider is that I have 3 and 5 year old sons and the track needs to be mellow enough for them until they get a little older. My 5 year old could certainly ride larger features but I don't want to discourage the youngest so the track is pretty mellow.

    With the book in hand I used surveyors stakes to mark the radius for the turns and went to town. Having never ridden a pump track let alone ever built a single dirt feature it has been a very fun learning experience. I'm still trying to envision a middle section that will go around the tree. My house is on septic with a seepage pit that can't be covered so unfortunately I can never build over a section by the first turn and my chicken coop which ideally would be a good spot for a middle section. Hopefully I will meet an experienced rider who will come to my track and give feedback on improvements one of these days.

    I learned hands on much of the advice in this thread, some of my rollers are super and flow good, some are to small/peaky and don't flow well however I enjoy the hard work and am fortunate enough to work from home so the option to put in a couple hours or so a day is very easy.

    A few things that were mentioned but in my opinion should be emphasized. Water, the more the better. A pile of dirt that is moist throughout is so much easier to work with. Once I figured that out what I did was continuously soak the loose piles that were not being worked on. Once I got around to them the moisture had wicked throughout and they packed in super easy.

    I scavenged my yard for base material. The previous owners left behind hundreds of red bricks as well as the largest collection of horrible garden statues ever. All my features have a base layer of rocks, bricks or plaster animals/kids/garden gnomes under them. I already can see it will be a problem in the future and will not do that as I make changes going forward.

    I also found that going in layers made it pack in faster on the piles that I moved by hand. I would make the first layer, walk on it, smack it and not worry to much about shape. I just got it good and tight. Then I would make the second layer that would be shaped.

    Be prepared to work, sweat and work. I've done all this by myself and probably have over 50 hours into it so far. I would say being able to dedicate ample time to work through it proper and not feel rushed is pretty important.

    As for the turns. The big one is a 12 foot and the others are right around 7'ish on the radius. The rollers are all around 9-12 feet apart. The longer spacing flows much better.

    Lastly, just go for it. Planing is good and thinking it through is necessary however dirt don't move by itself so get out and just dig.

    Here is my track. I've also never made a video so this is a first time video maker riding his first pump track build. At the end is my 3 and 5 year old (yellow shirts) and their cousin.

    Thanks again for a great thread.

    Chicken Track - YouTube

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    cottage grove bike park

    Jump line is starting to come together!
    DJ , Pump Track plans-frank1.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-frank-2.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-frank3.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-frank4.jpg

  38. #238
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    I understand IMBA is having an advanced trail building school. Focusing on pump track and jump park design and construction. In Eagan Minnesota. One major component of which is a day of trail buidling at a "local riding area."

    Hmmmmmm

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    Actually its at the cottage grove bike park but it is going to happen in two weekends!

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    Here are a couple pictures of the pump tracks that were just built at Cottage Grove Bike park this last week

    DJ , Pump Track plans-cover-cg-bp2.jpg

    DJ , Pump Track plans-cg-pump.jpg

  41. #241
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    Finally, after 2 year of planning and negotiation ... Pretty small scale, but at least its a step in the right direction. I was wondering what you guys are using for compacting the soil?
    https://picasaweb.google.com/1157952...4/B2bPumpTrack

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    looks like it will be a solid lay out. My one observation, I learned this the hard way, is to pin the corners (build them first) and then lay out he features between them. It will allow for more accurate spacing.

    we use a wacker 1550 plate compactor

    DJ , Pump Track plans-wp1550w-vibratory-asphalt-plate-l.jpg

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    thanks for the tips

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    Fastfish, can you expand a little bit on your project?

    Is it on public ground? Who and how did you work with the landowner? What were your major hurdles?

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    Bit of an update, fortunately a local mountain biker had a vibrating-plate compactor we could borrow and it worked pretty well. Spent half a day on it, fine-tuning the shapes of the rollers (they didnt compact as much as expected).
    Its a project thats been going on for almost 2 years now! The bike club in the town (of which Im a member) was approached by the Mairie (we're in France) to try to provide something for the young (and old) cyclists -- mainly because some teenagers had been building dirt jumps in inappropriate locations. OK so we've not got to the DJ part yet, but at least we have something to show for the negotiations. Its built on land that was donated to the town on the condition that it was used for children's activities (it has a {fairly} unused soccer pitch on it) so the pump-track falls into that requirement. The soil came from a farmer whose son is in the cycling club -- the town council brought the soil to the location for us so we "just" have to shape it into a track. Unfortunately its all taken a long time, and we are heading into winter (with snow and rain) I just hope the track wont get too destroyed by the weather before it has a chance to properly harden.
    DJ , Pump Track plans-1012_10_10_e_sm.jpg

  46. #246
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    Looks good... If you can get that plate packer back, do every surface not just the riding surface... go up and down the back sides, square off the tops of the berms and run the packer on top of them... the more you can compact the better it will set up and then if you really want to top it off, toss a little black dirt on the back side of the berms and plant some grass on it. it will help secure the berms and solidify the pump track and will slow erosion but will also help it blend into the park and looks really pro

  47. #247
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    good tips -- all in the plan :-) trying to get the gardening club interested so they can plant some herbaceous borders. Unfortunately rain (and work) stopped play today

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    tarps are amazing, if you can swing a few euros it is worth it. keeps plants from growing in spring. keeps people off the track during snow/sleet/rain. when you pull them off in the spring, it is so awesome to let it dry for a few hours and rip away with no labor (minus pulling the tarps off).

    and with time, everything will sink. rolleds may be big right now, but they will go down.

    looking good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfish666 View Post
    I was wondering what you guys are using for compacting the soil?
    Whilst a plate compactor seems ideal, a tamper is pretty good, plus you get an awesome workout at the same time ;-) Something like this, although I went with a steel pole after breaking a wooden handle on a berm.

    I also bought a second hand water filled lawn roller when building our pump track, doesn't compact as much as a tamper, but nice and smooth finish.

  50. #250
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    Phase one complete (need some grass on the edges and a bit of filling after a period of initial settling). Now for the bigger line/loop with some proper jumps in it ...
    DJ , Pump Track plans-2013_10_13_a.jpg
    DJ , Pump Track plans-2013_10_13_b.jpg
    DJ , Pump Track plans-2013_10_13_c.jpg
    DJ , Pump Track plans-2013_10_13_d.jpg
    DJ , Pump Track plans-2013_10_13_e.jpg

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