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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    . . . the area we are working with has a 5% natural Grade loss as well we will put probably a 6ft tall starting hill for the jumps. The jump line we have around 400 linear feet to work with. I am looking for input on the spacing and jump size. We are looking to do more of the big step up style jumps and are really going for more of the lofty competition style jumps over the tight trail rhythm style jumps but not extremely huge so how far peak to peak for the jumps, how tall should the lip be to the landing and how far would you all recommend between jumps?
    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    kind of like this picture . . .
    I'm thinking kind of like the last jump in this video but smaller Martin Söderström and Xavi Pasamonte at Morrilla trails - Just for fun - YouTube

    dose like a 4ft lip and 7 ft landing with maybe 5-6 ft peak to peak seem appropriate for the first jumps in the line of probably 5-6?
    . . . .

    The jump in the video you mentioned appears to be around 22 feet lip to landing (just going by the bike being 5'6".


    Based on your description, I think jumps in the 12 to 18 foot range (peak to peak) would be appropriate.
    If you watch this video of one of our spots (my bro Abel built it), , you'll see the bigger sets on the left are 18 peak to peak; the medium line on the right has gaps around 12'.
    More pics in this thread: Allied Compound -- End of the World Jam - January 2012

    Five to six feet gap peak to peak is not good. Remember a typical DJ-mtb is about 5 1/2 feet front to back, so two bike lengths (11 feet) is an absolute minimum gap. Short-gap jumps can be blasted high, but only in a spine-riding style, which it doesn't sound like you're going for. This is what you described might look like:
    (pic from Odyssey's Texas Toast Jam, Austin TX. Watch the video and see how guys hit it. The other dirt jumps were around 14' lip to landing. (I paced one of them). 2012 Texas Toast Jam: Dirt Final Highlights - TransWorld RideBMX - YouTube. (Also note the roll-in off the railroad car. 6' tall is not tall enough for a roll-in. Go with 10'-12'+.

    I can't tell you exactly what 5% grade will mean in terms of jump spacing (gaps and bowl lengths). Until some physicist figures it out for us, the absolute best way is to go from experience of spots that have already been built, or build one jump at a time and have your riders figure out what they're comfortable with. I would say verrrry roughly... you could do something like:
    /11\_25_/12\_28_/13\_31_/14\_34_/15\_37_/16\_____
    What that means is 11 foot gap, then 25 feet from TOP of landing to TOP of next lip (i.e. the "bowl" length), then 12 foot gap, etc. Note that 11 gap then bowl length of 22, would be the old guideline of bowl being double the length of the gap you just cleared. I'm adding on a little. Double +3, +4, +5, +6, +7 for the reason that if you're increasing speed because of the downgradient, the bowl will move under you quicker, so each bowl should also get stretched longer to anticipate the longer jump following it.... However, I could also see spacing them out even more. Like 2.5 to 3 times the gaps. You will only know from riding it. Note, also, that you don't have to do the consecutive bowl design. You could put more flat space in between jumps and it's not going to feel 'dead' because it's still downgradient. If you were to build wood launches, you could move them to adjust--and they'd be more durable in the long run. (Although some purists don't like em).

    Lastly, don't you guys want to work in some berms, wall rides, etc.? You can make it more interesting than just a big straight line of jumps. Look at some Crankworx videos for inspiration....
    Crankworx Colorado, Winter Park:
    Last edited by cmc4130; 04-06-2013 at 07:46 PM.

  2. #202
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    DJ , Pump Track plans-1-3-.jpg

    Thanks for the info, there is going to be berms, there will be a straight line but the first hit will have a hip right and left option that what those berms on both side are, then you hit a lip and land in a slight hip take the berm hit another jump and then have the option to hit a bigger jump or hip back into the other line... does that make sense looking at the picture? we have to pack a lot into the are, not just a dirt jump spot

  3. #203
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    " /11\_25_/12\_28_/13\_31_/14\_34_/15\_37_/16\_____
    What that means is 11 foot gap, then 25 feet from TOP of landing to TOP of next lip (i.e. the "bowl" length), then 12 foot gap, etc. Note that 11 gap then bowl length of 22, would be the old guideline of bowl being double the length of the gap you just cleared."

    on this how big is the first lip to be? in this example... I'm not sure a 10ft starting ramp will happen... will depend on the city, liability and how much dirt they will give us as well, it is in a city park

  4. #204
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    "Five to six feet gap peak to peak is not good. Remember a typical DJ-mtb is about 5 1/2 feet front to back, so two bike lengths (11 feet) is an absolute minimum gap. Short-gap jumps can be blasted high, but only in a spine-riding style, which it doesn't sound like you're going for. This is what you described might look like:"

    In a way that is what we are looking for shoot you really high, big hang time kind of thing but i get what you are saying... does this 11 ft min apply if the jumps are all going to be this big step up style? were the landing is 3 + feet higher then the take off? like 4ft high lip 7ft high landing?

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    " /11\_25_/12\_28_/13\_31_/14\_34_/15\_37_/16\_____
    What that means is 11 foot gap, then 25 feet from TOP of landing to TOP of next lip (i.e. the "bowl" length), then 12 foot gap, etc. Note that 11 gap then bowl length of 22, would be the old guideline of bowl being double the length of the gap you just cleared."

    on this how big is the first lip to be? in this example... I'm not sure a 10ft starting ramp will happen... will depend on the city, liability and how much dirt they will give us as well, it is in a city park
    the standard bmx/mtb box jump is roughly like this.


    it is drawn with the gap (or table length lip to landing) as double the height. i.e. 4 tall, 8 gap. 5 tall, 10 gap. however, in bmx / mtb-dj trails, a lot of times the gap is up to 3 times as long as the height. like 5 tall, 15 gap. 6 tall, 18' gap. the gap is set by the speed you're going. you could have a 3 foot tall long and low where you still clear 18 feet if that's how fast you're going.



    even when guys are going high, they still travel more distance horizontally:


    so here's a concept plan i just drew for you. note, it is NOT A DESIGN PLAN. adding one foot of gap per jump is just something i'm guessing at here, because i have not been to your spot, or tested it on a 5% gradient. you ALWAYS build to the terrain and to the rider, not to a piece of paper or printout from the internet !! natural landscape is never exactly flat like an indoor bikepark warehouse. therefore, spacing has to be adjusted on the fly. also, i added extra space in between the sets, because at some point in time you might want your tables to be longer, so you'll have room to make them bigger.


    if you are not an experienced builder, then i strongly suggest getting with your mountain bike club and other groups, potentially hiring a design/build contractor etc. before going to the city with "plans."
    GOOD LUCK !

    EDIT: here's another concept plan that adds a little more 'features' and creates a loop to get back to the beginning. You've got a monster roller in between jumps for a more surfy/flowy style... Then a freeride-style step-up step-down platform. Drawn here as flat.. But it could also be a dish/swoosh shape (like at Crankworx). Then the quarter to curved slant wall at the end could be done different ways... Then mellower rollers and roller-tabes to get back to the startin hill/platform.....
    Last edited by cmc4130; 04-03-2013 at 11:12 AM.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    "Five to six feet gap peak to peak is not good. Remember a typical DJ-mtb is about 5 1/2 feet front to back, so two bike lengths (11 feet) is an absolute minimum gap. Short-gap jumps can be blasted high, but only in a spine-riding style, which it doesn't sound like you're going for. This is what you described might look like:"

    In a way that is what we are looking for shoot you really high, big hang time kind of thing but i get what you are saying... does this 11 ft min apply if the jumps are all going to be this big step up style? were the landing is 3 + feet higher then the take off? like 4ft high lip 7ft high landing?
    even with the big step up style, like the Martin Soderstrom video... that lip was probably about 8 tall and the gap was (guessing) about 22'. almost three times the distance as the height.

    here's a smaller step-up.


    Tonic Fab News

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    Dude, thanks for the drawing, pictures and videos, all great examples! you are for sure a wealth of knowledge. We will definitely take your input into consideration. There is a group of people doing the design and build work and I will share this with them.
    The main reason I put this up was to see if there was some sort of rule of thumb for the spacing on a down slope. As you said you don't really build jumps by number but the double the gap rule for spacing I've roughly followed in the past but most of the time it is build by feel. However I have never built on a down slope and I'm not 100% sure about the others so I was just doing my research to be as ready as possible as we do have to have some rough numbers for the city. Those engineer people like numbers, haha. Thanks again!

  8. #208
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    Why don't you find local dirt jumpers and get their input?

    I see trails built out here quite often where the builder isn't a jumper/racer but doesn't want any input on the trail they are making(which is being built for jumping/racing).

    When the trail is completed, there are complaints about how it rides, safety issues, etc.

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    We have some local riders input, just not that many have stepped forward. A lot like to do what you mentioned show up after the fact and give their 2 cents then. We have also got a fair amount of resistance from a few local BMX riders about bringing "their" sport main stream and making it "public" and not the old school back woods style, as well as that these new "mainstream" jumps and bike parks are being built by the MTB riders....

    i wish they would all show up during the planning/design phase and at the building to provide their valuable input and experience so that it is built right and will make them happy because the point of building this is not just for myself and the small group of us building it to ride but for everyone to enjoy and to draw more people to Cottage Grove and to the sport.

    I was just doing some independent research prior to building to make sure we put out the best product we can! We have invited as many people as we can reach to come to the planning meetings and to the building days to help build and provide their input and 2 of the people on the plan/build crew are a couple of BMX guys that have built quite a bit and I'm not green at this at either. I have been racing bmx since 12 and riding dirt jumps and mtb for about 5 year now, so I ride and all the people involved ride. We aren't pro trail builders or riders though. There aren't a lot of places to ride around here though and most the stuff is underground stuff and is either so secret that you can't find it to ride and no one will tell you who built it or it is tore down in the same summer it is built.

    I am part of the local MTB club MORC and we are pushing now for legit places for alternative riding= bike parks-dirt jumps/pump tracks and we built one in Eagan Mn and it has got good reviews so far from the local riders but still is a work in progress but it was built to the double the gap rhythm style spacing and pretty much on a flat piece of land. There might be about 1% grade loss and that is the case with all the dirt jumps I've ever rode here.

    Growing up in the mid-west not a lot of elevation but the piece of land the city gave us to work with does have 5% grade and it is new territory so like cmc said it will be a bit of trial and error. I hope tons of hardcore riders show up on build days and help/provide their input, since we haven't got a lot so far. We have also consulted with IMBA trail solutions as well.

    Thanks again for all the input, suggestions and advice!
    Last edited by cglasford; 04-03-2013 at 07:13 AM.

  10. #210
    pnj
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    Sounds awesome!

    Keep us updated on your progress.

  11. #211
    YRG
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    DJ , Pump Track plans

    I would like to get a little input about spacing, height and radius. My goal is something inbetween a normal pump track and a bmx track. Or a very fast pump track. Any thoughts on roller spacing and height (26 ft n 2). How about berm radius (12) ?
    I have only worked on a couple tracks and the experienced builders are versed in trail, park and jumps not pump tracks. Also wondering about what kind of jumps can be incorporated without giving up speed.
    Thanks

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    . . .
    The main reason I put this up was to see if there was some sort of rule of thumb for the spacing on a down slope. As you said you don't really build jumps by number but the double the gap rule for spacing I've roughly followed in the past but most of the time it is build by feel. However I have never built on a down slope and I'm not 100% sure about the others so I was just doing my research to be as ready as possible as we do have to have some rough numbers for the city. Those engineer people like numbers, haha. Thanks again!

    Time to get all Isaac Netwonian and go out there with your bike and conduct some experiments



    Rule of thumb: the distance you travel with a good big bunnyhop at a certain speed, can tell you a lot about how far you'll go off a jump at the same speed. As you can see here, 15 degree trajectory and the 75 degree trajectory put you in the same spot. Same with 30 and 60. 45 degrees is slightly farther. 15 degree gets you half the distance as 45 degree. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the angle of the jump--it's the trajectory of the rider after they have left the ramp. (Riders aren't bowling balls; a rider could 'boost' a relatively flat-faced jump and still go into a 60 degree trajectory, or they could 'racer' a jump and suck it up and keep a low trajectory even on a steeper jump).

    So.... you could coast down that hill and see how much farther your bunnyhops get. Get some volunteers to lie down to test your theories.


    CalcTool: Object on a slope calculator

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by YRG View Post
    I would like to get a little input about spacing, height and radius. My goal is something inbetween a normal pump track and a bmx track. Or a very fast pump track. Any thoughts on roller spacing and height (26 ft n 2). How about berm radius (12) ?
    I have only worked on a couple tracks and the experienced builders are versed in trail, park and jumps not pump tracks. Also wondering about what kind of jumps can be incorporated without giving up speed.
    Thanks
    there's a lot of stuff on that earlier in this thread.... so be sure to go back and check it out. i'd have to see the terrain that you have. at my spot, , the jumps are between 10-13 feet lip to landing, with most being 11'-12'. the rollers are also spaced about 12' (except in the 'accelerating rollers section'). the monster rollers and roller-tables are also pretty consistent with the 10-12ish peak-to-peak. i tend to use arms-oustretched-with-rake as a berm radius (roughly 7 1/2' or 8' ish) for berms that you pump. that's also pretty consistent with cement skateparks that commonly use 8 foot radius transitions. if you need a berm to soak up some speed at the bottom of a decline, then you need a bigger radius. then there are different shaped berms, the ribbon style, the wave, the catcher's mit,... heh.

  14. #214
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    Took a couple shots of my friend Dan's backyard pump track. It's fast as shit and much better looking in person!









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    Couple of questions for those who have built pump tracks:

    Where do you guys recommend placement of the berm entry/exit rollers? My local trail boss recommended 50cm from where the berm ends, which seems reasonable, but I'm open to suggestions. At a guess, the berms are ~190º as one side is slightly tighter and closes in on the loop. The photo of the pump track above looks like the entry/exit rollers are closer to 1m rather than 50cm.

    Also, pump track nation recommends 1 foot (~30.5cm) rollers with a 1 to 10 ratio, so 305cm between the peaks. However, the track is around 24m in length, and there will 5 rollers on each side of the run (2m berm radius plus 2 entry/exit rollers and 3 in the middle).

    What I'm not sure of, is it better to:

    (a) keep all the rollers at a consistent height and spacing (40cm and 400cm)
    (b) drop all rollers to ~31cm and leave the spacing at 400cm.
    (c) drop height and spacing of some rollers to fit.

    (a) or (b) are going to be easiest, but if it's (c), is it better to drop the height of entry/exit rollers or middle rollers?

    Hope that makes sense I know the track will need tweaking once done, but it's a major pain to get dirt into the site, so if I can avoid re-working now it will save a lot of hassle in the future. Cheers!

    Update:
    Measure twice dig once! One set of rollers was actually 34cm x 3.4m and the other 35cm x 3.5m, so figured it should be low enough to keep the 1:10 spacing.
    Last edited by si618; 04-28-2013 at 05:37 PM.

  16. #216
    YRG
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    Berms with or without out entry/exit rollers?

    Hi, wondering if anyone will share about rollers on entry/exit of berms. What is good/bad about them.
    Why put them in/ Why leave them out?
    If you leave them out would you consider the exit of the berm a trough and start climbing into a roller?

    I am in the thick of design right now and a little under the gun because Sunday we are probably going to move dirt.

    Thanks for any input

  17. #217
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    I like them on both entrance and exit if the berms aren't super tight. If I put a feature that is larger, say a double or step down right before the berm I will leave them out as you will carry more speed with out one. I feel they are there to help you generate speed into and out of the berm as many people struggle to actually pump a berm. I don't have exact sizes on the berms I don't use them on but I'd say I have either a roller in and out on 90% of the pump tracks i've built and seen unless there is a large feature that will carry crazy speed in the berm.
    the good thing about dirt is you can put them in and take them out or add them later. I would doubt if this is your first pump track it will be dialed on your first build... good luck

  18. #218
    pnj
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    Depends on many variables.

    How fast/slow is that section of track?
    Is the section of track up hill/downhill?
    Will that section of track hold water?
    etc.

    I think rollers into and out of berms are great. You can use them to gain or scrub speed but I don't think it's a hard rule that you can fit them into every berm you create.

    Where are you building your track? (what state/city)
    do you have pictures?

  19. #219
    YRG
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    Quote Originally Posted by pnj View Post
    Depends on many variables.

    How fast/slow is that section of track?
    Is the section of track up hill/downhill?
    Will that section of track hold water?
    etc.

    I think rollers into and out of berms are great. You can use them to gain or scrub speed but I don't think it's a hard rule that you can fit them into every berm you create.

    Where are you building your track? (what state/city)
    do you have pictures?
    Track is flat (almost)
    Will be adding drainage, so it should not be a concern
    We also have more dirt than we can possibly use so the track will be raised
    Trying for fast
    Looking at 12ft spacing between rollers, so a little more than 12" tall
    We are in Park City Ut and right now it is a leveled blank slate with a large roll in and a few features placed, but no current pics.

  20. #220
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    "We also have more dirt than we can possibly use" is this possible? haha jam pack that baby! you can burn through some serious dirt in a serious hurry.

    but raising the track is a great idea to let it dry faster. I try to do that with all the track i've built

    How big of an area do you have to work with? how many yard of dirt do you have?

    Can I make a suggestion that maybe you go a little larger then 12 inches on the rollers.... maybe more like 24 inches I've built quite a few and the little kids love the smaller rollers but most of the older riders like the larger roller/featured pump tracks I've built and the young ins can still ride it... perhaps make one smaller one for the youngins and the the rest of the space make a killer pump track, also higher berms let you carry more speed in and out of the corners....

  21. #221
    YRG
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    Got about 1000yds
    I was thinking about bigger on the rollers. I am worried about the 10 to 1 rule and our spacing is looking good for 12' peak to peak.
    The berms will be about 4' tall
    We want a track that carries lots of speed. I'll try to post up some pics this evening.

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    I tried to follow that rule for the first few tracks but really you have to just eye ball it and ride it and ride what feels good, just remember don't get them too tight and don't have any flat spots, constant up and down.... the spacing can be tweeked a little depending on the bikes you are building it for, dj bikes seem to ride better on bigger rollers large spacing then on the smaller tighter spacing that a 20inch can rip... but a 20 inch can still rip hard on the bigger ones... build, ride, fix, build ride, fix... it will take some time... good luck

    1000yrds is a lot but how big of any area do you have to fill?

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    and mix it up too... don't build all the same size rollers... get creative! keep it interesting you will like it!

  24. #224
    pnj
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    I would think you wouldn't need a roll in. seems like you'll be going too fast at the start....

    The thing with dirt is, if it doesn't work, you can always change it.

    I don't know if your blueprints/plans will allow it but the best thing about making a pump track is making one that isn't the same as all the other pump tracks.

    elevated rollers, S-berms, alternate routes, weird and odd berms, etc.

    Have fun!

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by YRG View Post
    Hi, wondering if anyone will share about rollers on entry/exit of berms. What is good/bad about them.
    Why put them in/ Why leave them out?
    If you leave them out would you consider the exit of the berm a trough and start climbing into a roller?

    . . .
    One effect of entrance/exit rollers can be to affect the line the rider takes around a berm and how they compress into it. Back in this post, I talked about high-low-high versus low-high-low paths around a turn:
    DJ , Pump Track plans

    If you check out this video, Pump track M berms. - YouTube,note how the rider starts high then sort of lunges/compresses down around the berm, then de-compresses/extends the body on the exit for the 'up.' In this example, the rollers are completely blended into the berm itself. Depending on how it's blended you could think of it as taking a shape of a macaroni and then tilting the two ends up.

    Quote Originally Posted by YRG View Post
    Got about 1000yds
    I was thinking about bigger on the rollers. I am worried about the 10 to 1 rule and our spacing is looking good for 12' peak to peak.
    The berms will be about 4' tall
    We want a track that carries lots of speed. I'll try to post up some pics this evening.
    A berm where the riding line is low does not have to be tall. 4 feet tall is great if you have tons of dirt....but I wouldn't say it's necessary to have a fast track. You can have a 2 foot tall steep faced berm that is very fast.

    If you did not use rollers (or you pull the rollers farther back from the entrance/exit), riders would either simply ride the berm horizontally... or they might try to carve up the face of the berm. Carving up the face of a berm and then down on exit could be thought of like the "macaroni" tilted the other way, with two ends down. The result would be a low-high-low turn like this:
    A low-high-low berm does have to be taller. Point being, there can be a lot of different interesting ways to do it, and it's good to envision the riders' lines....

    I agree with cglasford to consider larger rollers as well. However a couple of caveats with that. A taller roller often should be less peaky (more domed over) than a shorter one. The goal of a pump track is to go fast and low in a horizontal direction; if a roller is tall and peaky, your body will have too much up/down accomodation to keep both wheels on the ground (although you can manual as a 'work-around'). The second caveat is rollers and speed-----what speed really does is stretch out your body's up/down positions on the track.... So, with a roller-table, like in this picture... the normal backside would be where the dotted line curves down, except now it's stretched. A rider going a certain speed can get 'weightless' (but low) over the center part (either manualing or jumping). The length of the roller table should be calibrated to how fast a typical rider is going. If I had a fast section going into a turn, I might use a stretched out roller-table before the turn, instead of a regular roller.



    DJ , Pump Track plans

    domed-over 'monster' roller


    Although this is xc/flow trail, not a pump track, it can still apply---I like to extend the second half of berms longer, then have a 'down' transition to 'land/compress' on. So the exit roller is not like a bump-turn-bump. it's more like lean-curve-up-then-drop....
    This is a view of one we did from the bottom looking back up the trail (rider will be coming down from the right and exiting towards the camera.

    How many years have you been building "Flow country Trails"?

  26. #226
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead!

    Lovin the input here, Thanks. Macaroni up or down sounds fun. So some berms with bumps and some without sounds like the right approach. Thought I would post up a few pics of the space as it looks today.
    Here is the whole layout. The pile of dirt far right is one of our stacks.
    If you see furthest back there is a high dirt line, that is top level of the 3 level track. Main level is the biggest. The lowest berm on the left is the bottom level.
    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_0462.jpg
    Jump line will feed the big bottom berm.
    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_0465.jpg
    Right behind the skid you can see the high line. Hoping it will have at least a couple jumps down to the main level.
    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_0464.jpg
    Best picture of the high line. The big pile on the right will roll in straight to the camera and left staying on top. Pretty stoked on the possibilities here.
    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_0459.jpg
    Think I'm going to start with a loop inside a loop and see where that goes.

  27. #227
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    front yard pump track

    This is my first build using a machine and imported dirt and i gotta say it's nice. The area Im working with is roughly 80'x40' and it slopes in one corner. I had to add drainage in this corner because of the large berm and roller that made a catch for the water. We dug down about 10'' below the lowest point of where the puddle formed and put in 4'' drain pipe, back filled with rock and wrapped that with filter cloth. back filled with sand and a layer of top soil to finish. It's not a fast moving drain like a down spout but, more like a leach. Got the outer line roughed in and got more dirt coming this weekend to finish the in field. Then put the bike on it and ride tweak repet
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DJ , Pump Track plans-img_3045.jpg  

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    Last edited by rottendan; 08-29-2013 at 04:50 AM.
    coastin' along

  28. #228
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    looking really sick!

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    cottage grove bike park

    Things are finally starting to come together.... We have been working on the 4x track with a Bulldozer, excavator, front end loaders and skid steer. We had our first build week last week from 7/11- 7/18 and we are having our first community build day this Saturday. Great support from the city and a local excavating company so we have moved aroudn 4500 cubic yrds of dirt so far and have over 1000yrds sitting on the side ready to be put into place.
    check it out
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cotta...96908407004866

    here are some pictures of it so far

    DJ , Pump Track plans-cgbp1.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-cgbp2.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-cgbp3.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-cgbp4.jpg

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    Looks awesome

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    here is a link to some more pictures from our last build
    MOUNTAIN BIKING

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    I joined this site today just to say thank you to all the people that have contributed to this thread. I hope to start messing with a backyard track for my daughter and I to play around on soon.
    Slowly getting back into it... one bump at a time.

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    So we continue to push on and build, remember this park is built 100% by volunteers up until this point at least and on a really limited budget but here are a couple pictures
    DJ , Pump Track plans-park1.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-park2.jpg

    here is a video of it


    we are having a fund raiser on 9/14 to help get some more cash to continue building https://www.facebook.com/events/1375990429292993/

    check us out on facebook
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cotta...96908407004866

  34. #234
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    Whoa. Looks fun, but way, waaaaayyy too many flat spots and therefore pedaling in between everything. Just my .02.

    Done right (at least, in my mind) you should pedal off the start hill then never again.

  35. #235
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    That would be one crazy pump track but I haven't seen many 4x or BMX tracks were you don't have to pedal.. it is a fun track and you don't have to pedal all that much. More rollers could be added pretty easily though

  36. #236
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    Awesome thread! I just finished one in my backyard. I'm building a workshop and rented a backhoe to dig the footings and the pile of dirt was freaking huge. I had never ridden a pump track before but watched videos on the net and they looked like a blast and since I had the machine I moved around one run of future rollers along my block wall and left the remaining pile in the center of my yard. Because of the shop, a tree and a kids play set that is in the works a L shaped track seemed best. After eyeballing the first run of rollers I figured it would be smart to do 5 minutes of research and I purchased Lee's Pump Track book. It turns out my eyeball was pretty decent and the piles were all roughly 9-11 feet apart. Everything else I moved by hand.

    One thing I needed to consider is that I have 3 and 5 year old sons and the track needs to be mellow enough for them until they get a little older. My 5 year old could certainly ride larger features but I don't want to discourage the youngest so the track is pretty mellow.

    With the book in hand I used surveyors stakes to mark the radius for the turns and went to town. Having never ridden a pump track let alone ever built a single dirt feature it has been a very fun learning experience. I'm still trying to envision a middle section that will go around the tree. My house is on septic with a seepage pit that can't be covered so unfortunately I can never build over a section by the first turn and my chicken coop which ideally would be a good spot for a middle section. Hopefully I will meet an experienced rider who will come to my track and give feedback on improvements one of these days.

    I learned hands on much of the advice in this thread, some of my rollers are super and flow good, some are to small/peaky and don't flow well however I enjoy the hard work and am fortunate enough to work from home so the option to put in a couple hours or so a day is very easy.

    A few things that were mentioned but in my opinion should be emphasized. Water, the more the better. A pile of dirt that is moist throughout is so much easier to work with. Once I figured that out what I did was continuously soak the loose piles that were not being worked on. Once I got around to them the moisture had wicked throughout and they packed in super easy.

    I scavenged my yard for base material. The previous owners left behind hundreds of red bricks as well as the largest collection of horrible garden statues ever. All my features have a base layer of rocks, bricks or plaster animals/kids/garden gnomes under them. I already can see it will be a problem in the future and will not do that as I make changes going forward.

    I also found that going in layers made it pack in faster on the piles that I moved by hand. I would make the first layer, walk on it, smack it and not worry to much about shape. I just got it good and tight. Then I would make the second layer that would be shaped.

    Be prepared to work, sweat and work. I've done all this by myself and probably have over 50 hours into it so far. I would say being able to dedicate ample time to work through it proper and not feel rushed is pretty important.

    As for the turns. The big one is a 12 foot and the others are right around 7'ish on the radius. The rollers are all around 9-12 feet apart. The longer spacing flows much better.

    Lastly, just go for it. Planing is good and thinking it through is necessary however dirt don't move by itself so get out and just dig.

    Here is my track. I've also never made a video so this is a first time video maker riding his first pump track build. At the end is my 3 and 5 year old (yellow shirts) and their cousin.

    Thanks again for a great thread.

    Chicken Track - YouTube

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    cottage grove bike park

    Jump line is starting to come together!
    DJ , Pump Track plans-frank1.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-frank-2.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-frank3.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-frank4.jpg

  38. #238
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    I understand IMBA is having an advanced trail building school. Focusing on pump track and jump park design and construction. In Eagan Minnesota. One major component of which is a day of trail buidling at a "local riding area."

    Hmmmmmm

  39. #239
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    Actually its at the cottage grove bike park but it is going to happen in two weekends!

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    Here are a couple pictures of the pump tracks that were just built at Cottage Grove Bike park this last week

    DJ , Pump Track plans-cover-cg-bp2.jpg

    DJ , Pump Track plans-cg-pump.jpg

  41. #241
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    Finally, after 2 year of planning and negotiation ... Pretty small scale, but at least its a step in the right direction. I was wondering what you guys are using for compacting the soil?
    https://picasaweb.google.com/1157952...4/B2bPumpTrack

  42. #242
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    looks like it will be a solid lay out. My one observation, I learned this the hard way, is to pin the corners (build them first) and then lay out he features between them. It will allow for more accurate spacing.

    we use a wacker 1550 plate compactor

    DJ , Pump Track plans-wp1550w-vibratory-asphalt-plate-l.jpg

  43. #243
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    thanks for the tips

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    Fastfish, can you expand a little bit on your project?

    Is it on public ground? Who and how did you work with the landowner? What were your major hurdles?

  45. #245
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    Bit of an update, fortunately a local mountain biker had a vibrating-plate compactor we could borrow and it worked pretty well. Spent half a day on it, fine-tuning the shapes of the rollers (they didnt compact as much as expected).
    Its a project thats been going on for almost 2 years now! The bike club in the town (of which Im a member) was approached by the Mairie (we're in France) to try to provide something for the young (and old) cyclists -- mainly because some teenagers had been building dirt jumps in inappropriate locations. OK so we've not got to the DJ part yet, but at least we have something to show for the negotiations. Its built on land that was donated to the town on the condition that it was used for children's activities (it has a {fairly} unused soccer pitch on it) so the pump-track falls into that requirement. The soil came from a farmer whose son is in the cycling club -- the town council brought the soil to the location for us so we "just" have to shape it into a track. Unfortunately its all taken a long time, and we are heading into winter (with snow and rain) I just hope the track wont get too destroyed by the weather before it has a chance to properly harden.
    DJ , Pump Track plans-1012_10_10_e_sm.jpg

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    Looks good... If you can get that plate packer back, do every surface not just the riding surface... go up and down the back sides, square off the tops of the berms and run the packer on top of them... the more you can compact the better it will set up and then if you really want to top it off, toss a little black dirt on the back side of the berms and plant some grass on it. it will help secure the berms and solidify the pump track and will slow erosion but will also help it blend into the park and looks really pro

  47. #247
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    good tips -- all in the plan :-) trying to get the gardening club interested so they can plant some herbaceous borders. Unfortunately rain (and work) stopped play today

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    tarps are amazing, if you can swing a few euros it is worth it. keeps plants from growing in spring. keeps people off the track during snow/sleet/rain. when you pull them off in the spring, it is so awesome to let it dry for a few hours and rip away with no labor (minus pulling the tarps off).

    and with time, everything will sink. rolleds may be big right now, but they will go down.

    looking good.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfish666 View Post
    I was wondering what you guys are using for compacting the soil?
    Whilst a plate compactor seems ideal, a tamper is pretty good, plus you get an awesome workout at the same time ;-) Something like this, although I went with a steel pole after breaking a wooden handle on a berm.

    I also bought a second hand water filled lawn roller when building our pump track, doesn't compact as much as a tamper, but nice and smooth finish.

  50. #250
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    Phase one complete (need some grass on the edges and a bit of filling after a period of initial settling). Now for the bigger line/loop with some proper jumps in it ...
    DJ , Pump Track plans-2013_10_13_a.jpg
    DJ , Pump Track plans-2013_10_13_b.jpg
    DJ , Pump Track plans-2013_10_13_c.jpg
    DJ , Pump Track plans-2013_10_13_d.jpg
    DJ , Pump Track plans-2013_10_13_e.jpg

  51. #251
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    hand tamps are great for vertical surfaces and then follow it up with a good old slap pack from a square shovel!

    the pump tracks looking good!

    you're right you will never get it completely compacted with tools. It will take thousands of riders and then the first few rain events will cause some settling and you will need to fix those areas.

    Also if you live someplace that actually gets snow the true compaction test will be winter. After the first winter and a good buffing you shouldn't see too much for settling in the future!

    Good luck on the rest of your build!

  52. #252
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    Just a little video from the IMBA advanced trail building school- bike park addition

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    Just a little video from the IMBA advanced trail building school- bike park addition
    awesome!!! :-)

  54. #254
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    Well, I have spent part of the past two days reading through this thread, and I'm blown away by some of the information, tips, and ideas thrown in here. But why am I looking at this thread?

    I've built a lot of XC trail. I'm building some right now for a city park near where I live. As part of this park, they have a section marked off for a "BMX" track. First, I feel like I need to point out, no one races BMX around here. The intent is simply for an "everyone" friendly track that kids can ride and parents can either watch or ride along, for people who aren't into mountain biking. But the mountain bikers are all about a pump track/DJ track. And so am I. And I see no reason why, especially after reading this thread, it can't be a good pump/jump track that's completely rollable by..well, pretty much anyone who can manage a bike.

    To top that idea off, there are actually two usable locations for a track. One is 100ft by 200ft, and has a natural "half bowl" shape with, maybe 15 feet of elevation from the lip to the bottom. The other space is 300ft by 300ft, with more of a natural half-pipe shape to it that's narrower on the top end, and wider on the bottom end - which is to say, in the top slightly higher end, the hills nearly meet in the middle (oh yeah, there's a natural gully there) and on the lower side, it flattens out a bit, and the gully goes away. So my thoughts work like this:

    Smaller, easier pump track in the small space.

    Larger more advanced pump/jump track in the larger space.

    For all my trail building, I've never built a pump track before, so I'm open to recommendations. A lot of what I've seen on this thread has been back yard stuff, obviously some of it is larger, but most of the plans just aren't very big. For building, I know I can use the mini-ex I'm using to build XC trail, and I'm relatively certain I can get a bob-cat for the heavy lifting, and keep the ex for fine tuning, shaping, etc.

    What's a good starting point outside of this thread for me? Does the Lee book still apply to me? Or should I not bother since it's focused more on back yard stuff? Are there other resources out there showing pump track plans and layouts with specs and drawings I can look at for ideas? I've ridden a few pump tracks, but never really considered the science behind them while riding them. I've built some flow trail, and assume similar principles will apply, but I don't want to find out the hard way that I'm way off base.

    Thanks for all the great information that's already here, and any additional pointers you folks can provide.

    PS: both locations are thickly wooded. I'll be clearing paths for the track through the woods, so I want to get my layout/design base right the first time, so I can at least continue to use the same cleared paths through the woods. Moving rollers around on those paths to fine tune things is ok, but I only want to clear what I need to ride through.

  55. #255
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    . . .

    I've built a lot of XC trail. I'm building some right now for a city park near where I live. As part of this park, they have a section marked off for a "BMX" track. . . . .
    * Be sure to involve bmx and mtb-dj riders in your process.

    * Consider hiring professionals with design experience or find local underground-scene diggers who have already built rad spots.

    * Have a healthy respect for knowing what you don't know. BMX riders wouldn't be asked to design singletrack, so don't hesitate to ask them for assistance/input (maybe even give them creative control).

    * You will always have to do revisions and fixes. There are no online plans or books that can tell you how to do it exactly right the first time. Just like singletrack, mtbmx trails are tailored to the landscape. Even very subtle grade changes can make a big difference on whether something works. Plus, part of mtbmx trails is the love of dirt design--there can always be improvements.

    * Cookie-cutter designs are never cool.

    * Certain principles of design CAN be picked up online (that's what this thread is for). So, try to use them to suit the terrain and the riders. Things like rhythm spacing, keeping gap lengths mostly consistent, picking berm appropriate berm radius, using natural landscape contours, making a loop that returns to the beginning versus a one-directional ride then hike back design, etc.

    * Your idea of picking spots with a natural "basin" landscape is a good one. It means that you get some gravity to roll into the lines/loops, but there's also a way to turn around and come back.

    * There is a pro-level bmx race track within about an hour of you: Music City BMX Association. Some of these riders may be great resources for you. Although, I do agree with you that mtb-bmx trails are something different from bmx race tracks. One way to think about it is that bmx race tracks are high speed pump tracks; at a lot of tracks the novices can't clear the jumps at all, the intermediates maybe clear a few, and only the expert racers clear everything. If you shrink the dimensions, you start to get something that is fun at normal speeds. So, rather than a 16-20 foot table top right off the gate, like at some tracks, you would do a 8 or 10 foot one. Rollers might be spaced at 11-13 peak to peak instead of 16-18'. Berm radius is more like 7-10' instead of 16-20' etc.

    * Even within the bmx / mtb-DJ scenes there are some major aesthetic design differences. I've worked on spots that were all about high air and tricks, but I've also worked on spots that are more about flowing fast and low, with only occasional booster jumps. The purpose of the jump matters a lot for how you shape it and space it. Berms are just as important in a good layout--so a straight line of jumps with no turns is not the "state of the art" in 2013.

    * Making something "beginner-friendly" is different from designing "for beginners." Most of the spot should be designed for the average bmx / mtb-DJ rider (i.e. can easily jump a typical indoor bike park box jump which means 3'6"-5'6" tall and 8-12 feet of gap) but also in such a way that is beginner friendly (i.e. large tag savers for gap doubles, or jumps filled in as tables or rollable doubles). On the flip side, getting local 'badass' riders can be a bad strategy if they design their own personal dream park instead of designing for average riders.

    * You can learn a lot from indoor wood bike parks and outdoor cement skate/bike parks, which will relate to dirt as well. Take a trip to Ray's in Cleveland this winter and visit the mecca that every bike park designer should experience.

    * If you're doing this project as a DIY/volunteer effort, then I would suggest building one small section at a time, pack it, shape it, and ride it in until it works well, then move on to the next section. Running a bobcat for a week solid and moving dirt all over the place, then trying to make it work, is a bad approach. Even when you're running a bobcat, it still takes a lot of hands to shape and pack. So, doing, say, a couple of big rollers and one or two tables in one weekend is plenty.

    That's all I have for now. You're welcome to post up pictures. Maybe start a new thread for just your spot.

    EDIT: in case you missed them earlier in this thread... here are a few videos of my main spot. note: rollers are deliberately mixed in; tables have rounded corners; jumps are spaced big enough to be fun for good riders but are also rollable; berms are worked in; it's roughly rectangular, so you come back to the beginning; there's a natural starting hill.

    wcpt random edit, spring 2010


    KJ's bday jam


    wc pville shark tank edit 2009


    other spots i've worked on/consulted on/helped at:
    twin parks:

    allied compound:

    hideout:


    EDIT:
    Wanna follow up with some posts/reposts of videos of other rad spots.
    1. The Come Up presents: Texas Toast Jam 2012. The main things to observe here: a) roll-in from an elevation, in this case a railroad car; b) interesting mix of ramps and dirt--guess what?! bike parks don't have to be all one or the other !; c) mix of long-and-low as well as boosters, note the jump after the quarter pipe is a long and low d) interesting berm wall. note how it's a 90 degree curve to flat wall to 90.
    The Come Up presents: Texas Toast Jam 2012 - YouTube

    2. New York Trails 2012. Note rollers and berms mixed into the lines. Note the "long and low" set up jumps for steeper sets.
    New York Trails - BMX Videos - Extreme.com - Gives you the best high quality extreme sports video and all the latest news and events from the world of action sports.

    3. BMX-race-track style pump track. Kyle Bennet. "Kyle Bennett riding the pump track." One thing to note here is that the rollers on bmx race tracks are often pretty peaky, which requires manualing skill to get through at speed. A full bike/both tire pump on rollers requires flatter, less peaky rollers.
    Kyle Bennett riding the pump track - YouTube

    4. "Lars Shreds the Double On Unemployment Line" by Transition Bikes. The reason I include this one is to remind everyone that mtbmx pump/jump trails can be in the woods just like regular xc trails. For some reason there is always somebody who thinks you need a big open field for dirt jumps. True, it's easier to move heavy equipment there, but, in the long run, it's not as fun to hang out in a field, with no trees, shade, and too much sun and wind to beat down on the jumps/track. If you can build a pump-jump TRAIL as a part of a regular trail system, that should be the primary goal. The only drawback to one directional trail is there is no particular "hang out" spot. A basin or rectangular/loop design does create a spot where people can hang out. But still, it's better in the trees and part of nature, than in a field, if you can help it.
    Last edited by cmc4130; 11-12-2013 at 07:27 PM.

  56. #256
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    Thanks CMC! I've got a former BMX rider, and a Jump rider involved. The budget is limited, so I doubt we'll get professional help, and the only reason I'm trying to sort out anything about these tracks to build them is because the city hired me for the XC trail project, so I'm insured to run the equipment they're providing. Since I can't really hand it off, I'm doing exactly what I did when I started building MTB trail years ago, and looking for as much input as I can get before I start making mistakes of my own, in hopes that other people's experience may prevent a few mistakes on my part.

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    Sounds like a good project. Don't get frustrated as there will be a lot of trials and errors, mods and corrections to your pump track and jumps, especially if you have never built one.
    It is a great idea to get other riders involved but still don't think you have to get it right the first time. It wont happen.

    If you have equipement that you are renting so you can use as needed, I agree 100% with CMC build it one jump at a time, get it dialed. It will help you gauge your speed and get it closer to perfect to begin with. Also tree coverage is awesome for protection from the elements and blocking the wind. Out in a field, even on a sunny day the wind can dang near shut down jumps.

    ON pump tracks I always recommend building the berms right. I think you could totally knock out a pump track in a weekend, at least you have the dirt in the right spot. It is typically just tweaking the spacing and how peaky the rollers are from that point. As for radius, it depends on where you measure (outside radius, inside radius, riding arc? either way be consistent use a tap/string and paint ) , what size bikes are riding it and how much speed you have. less than 10ft (riding arc) on a full 180 on a 26 inch bike with some speed starts to feel really tight, not so bad on a 20inch....

    good luck, keep us posted

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    Thanks CMC! I've got a former BMX rider, and a Jump rider involved. The budget is limited, so I doubt we'll get professional help. . . . .
    Awesome! You can get a lot of great work done with a crew of dedicated rider-diggers.

    Check out Duthie Hill, WA, for ideas about mixing in natural lumber on freeride-ish features, if y'all will be allowed to do that.

    Rather than thinking of 'pump track over here, jumps over there..." imagine ways all of it can be integrated. People love trails that can mix in everything--pump, jump, drops, slant-walls, etc. etc.

    Duthie Hill, WA:





  59. #259
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    Nice pictures! I haven't decided yet what we'll actually built of lumber vs dirt, but the city has pretty much given us a free hand to do whatever we can make work - it isn't a blank check, but it is a blank slate.

    We'll certainly be keeping most of the tree cover, but I'll get more into that soon enough. I will get some images together, topo stuff, and post it up in a separate thread. The biggest thing I'm after is logical lines to build on. Like I said, once a clear an area, I'll move the dirt as many times as I have to in order to get it right, but I don't want to clear areas for runs that we'll shut down later.

    It's really inspiring to see what you guys have built or ridden, and hear what goes into some of these tracks. Like I said, I've ridden a few, but as a single track builder, it never occurred to me that someone would ask me to build one, so now I'm having to get my head around this too. Thanks again guys.

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    ActionSportsConstruction.com has lots of info about pump tracks and pump track construction.

  61. #261
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    This thread is pure GOLD! Just wanna say THANKS to all those contributing!

  62. #262
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    Bmx flavor boost

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexFowler View Post
    ActionSportsConstruction.com has lots of info about pump tracks and pump track construction.
    I like the Bmx influence. Bmx adds speed and bigger air. Both of these are good things

  63. #263
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    first off, thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread
    just wanted to post a couple of pics of the finished project. here it is 140 yds of imported dirt plus some stuff we scraped up here. it's 70'x55' and has 6 berms, 4-90 degree and 2-180's. 20 rollers all spaced at 12' with 2 transfer lines.
    a few things i learned during the build
    1.machines rule!
    2.water is so important
    3.plan for drainage
    4.it's never done
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DJ , Pump Track plans-img_3083.jpg  

    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_3086.jpg  

    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_3087.jpg  

    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_3089.jpg  

    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_3121.jpg  

    DJ , Pump Track plans-img_3123.jpg  

    DJ , Pump Track plans-p1.jpg  

    coastin' along

  64. #264
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    DAAAAANG! that is sexy! I sure how you can keep it that sexy! looks like a fun track! enjoy it!

  65. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    DAAAAANG! that is sexy! I sure how you can keep it that sexy! looks like a fun track! enjoy it!
    Thanks man, it'nothing compared to the massive project you pulled off, very cool. I took those pics right after a grooming so, it was all fancy looking. I love the look of freshly swept and watered dirt and I also use the word sexy to describe dirt
    coastin' along

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    Thanks, but it wasn't just me it took a group of solid riders to do it and we aren't done

    but yes that is sexy... i love when the jumps and pump tracks are just freshly broomed and groomed up... we are probably going to use Dust Fighter soil stabilizer this year to minimize the work needed for maintenance!

  67. #267
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    Would like feedback on designs

    First off rottendan, that is some beautiful work! Very nice.

    I have a space in a bike park that is set aside for a pump track. It is about 110ft x 110ft and will be built this spring. I have been working on some design ideas and am hoping for any type of constructive feedback. I made some drag and drop features in a drawing program. The key explains what they are about (except for the regular rectangles which are starting platforms and roll ins).
    I would love to incorporate jumps into the design, but I don't think I can get them approved by the powers that be.
    It would be appreciated if anyone can point out potential problems or improvements.

    Thanks in advance
    DJ , Pump Track plans-key.jpg
    Key


    DJ , Pump Track plans-2rock.jpg
    First Design, pretty basic


    DJ , Pump Track plans-2rock2.jpg
    Second adds 2 Rocks and angled rollers


    DJ , Pump Track plans-zippy-pinhead-2.jpg
    3rd has many corner to corner berms

    DJ , Pump Track plans-double8s.jpg
    This is my favorite so far. 1 rock (boss wants rocks) and QP is a 1/4 pipe

    Below are some attachments I couldn't delete
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DJ , Pump Track plans-zippy1.jpg  

    DJ , Pump Track plans-double-8s2.jpg  


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    Thanks YRG! I like the 3rd one also, the qp is a great idea for line reversal. Like a air to transfer, very cool. Jumps mixed in are cool but, once your track gets dialed in you'll find spots that you can jump. Roller to roller, berm to roller, roller to berm etc.etc. Have fun with it!
    coastin' along

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    Action Sports Construction offers full service pump track, dirt jump and bike park construction. Visit ActionSportsConstruction.com for more info!

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    OK, I have my local Recreation Commision interested in stsrting with a pump track in the local park and then possibly expanding. I remember reading that there was some National Orgs that could help out with the planning and with the other town councils. Any help would be appreciated.

    -Kevin

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    National organizations? you mean IMBA - The international mountain bike association? www.imba.com

    Do you have a local mountain bike club or IMBA chapter? or local BMX track or club?

    Other than that you will be contacting a contractor and paying them to design and build your pump tracks.

    you could have your city parks people contact other city parks people that have bike parks in their community if they have specific city or operation questions....

    where are you located?

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    IMBA is what I was remembering. This will be a volunteer effort for now. We are in Newton NH.

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    Right on... I would contact your local chapter if you have one... doesn't look like you have a regional rep at this time but maybe try this guy

    Frank Maguire, Mid-Atlantic Regional Director, frank.maguire@imba.com

    good luck!

    Have you ever built a pump track?

    If you have never built one be ready for lots of building and rebuilding, trial by error... you can do lots of research and watch videos... ect... even buy this e-book
    Lee Likes Bikes

    but nothing beats first hand knowledge, I would also recommend before you build I would go ride as many pump tracks as you can before you start

    this might be interesting
    Lee Likes Bikes

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    Thanks, I am just getting back into biking after a long lay off. I am now motivated byt the fact that programs for the kids in town just got defeated in the local elections as the majority of voters who turned out were over 55.

    Thinking what we can do at a lower cost we have a pretty large chunk of land with an existing trail system. Thought is to start with a pump track and then move on from there. I do have to drum up local support as well.

    Just realized there is a Southern NH Mountain Bike association as well. I will contact them as well as IMBA.

    Thanks!

  75. #275
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    awesome! and I don't want to scare or discourage you... go for it for sure but just be aware that a pump track that might take a pro/contractor 2-5 days to build and be dialed might take a group of volunteers that have never built one all summer to get it built and dialed in... but that is part of the fun!

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    I am aware. I have plenty of access to machines and operators. Thanks for the heads up though, my hope is that we can get something started that will thrive and grow through a community effort.

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    right on good luck! that is how both of these projects started for me

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cotta...96908407004866

    https://www.facebook.com/EaganBikePark

  78. #278
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    Would you mind if I used your Cottage Grove video to present the idea to the town?

  79. #279
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    no problem

  80. #280
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    Hey, I've been doing a mini video series on our Pumptrack, thought I'd post it here in case anybody is interested in following along. I've posted part 1 and part 2 up, and will hopefully have part 3 up next week. Feel free to leave your questions and comments bellow =]

    Here's part 1:

  81. #281
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    Good video Phil. Despite the collective silence, I'm interested. Lots to learn and things like this help. Let's see part deux!

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    Good video. I am currently working with my town to make something similar in the town woods. What is the rough elevation change on this set up? Do you have any videos about its construction?

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    Good video Phil. Despite the collective silence, I'm interested. Lots to learn and things like this help. Let's see part deux!

    Your request granted - Part 2 linked below. Part 3 is in the process of being edited.

    And thank you. I tried to do a video like this in the years past, but my editing skills lead to a mediocre video and being uncomfortable in from of a camera didn't help.


  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappedrider View Post
    Good video. I am currently working with my town to make something similar in the town woods. What is the rough elevation change on this set up? Do you have any videos about its construction?
    Awesome man! Good on you for being so proactive. I've talked to my town about building one but it never materialized, though I'm still hoping that changes.

    The elevation change is about 2-4 Feet from the base of the upper lines to the base of the lower lines. Our start "gate" is about 5-6 feet higher than the base of the of the lower lines. Having an elevated starting point to gain speed (where you can sit around and rest in between laps) makes a huge difference.

    I wish, but I didn't know how to use a camera very well when we first started building so I don't have anything from then.

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilKmetz View Post
    Awesome man! Good on you for being so proactive. I've talked to my town about building one but it never materialized, though I'm still hoping that changes.

    The elevation change is about 2-4 Feet from the base of the upper lines to the base of the lower lines. Our start "gate" is about 5-6 feet higher than the base of the of the lower lines. Having an elevated starting point to gain speed (where you can sit around and rest in between laps) makes a huge difference.

    I wish, but I didn't know how to use a camera very well when we first started building so I don't have anything from then.
    Cool, I checked out some of your other videos and it looks perfect. Almost identical to the land we are looking at. 200 laps was crazy BTW!

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappedrider View Post
    Cool, I checked out some of your other videos and it looks perfect. Almost identical to the land we are looking at. 200 laps was crazy BTW!
    Haha yeah, that was a rather boring day and came as a spur of the moment challenge.

    here's the general process I used:

    1. mentally outline rough course plan.
    2. Remove logs and twigs.
    3. Remove or cut out small/medium dead trees
    4. Rake out the footprint of the course.
    5. Identify the constraints (big stumps, unmovable rocks)
    6. Mentally adjust course plan.


    There is one thing that it's important to remember at first: A bike can't turn as tight as we like to think when we are on our feet. It's better to build turns less sharp than too sharp.

    Next assuming you're importing dirt, and have the footprint mostly outlined.
    1. Remove the organic top soil around the whole course.
    2. Remove any small stumps/rocks around the whole course
    3. Build the base of the course build the foundation.
    4. Start building features.


    The foundation is an initial layer of dirt that will create the foot print for the course. It should be smooth and pretty level. Small gradual changes in elevation are fine. Also, level out any off camber sections.

    From there you should already be feeling really good about how things are shaping up. The first thing I initially built on our course was the first berm. It just gave me a reference point and as to where I should build the features leading into and our of it.

    I highly recommend riding the course as you go, and building one feature at a time that way you can get a sense of if things are working or not. If you notice that you are still turning when you're past the berm, add a little bit of a camber to features and base directly after the berm (think of a nascar track).

    I'm not sure if any of this helps, but these are just some of the things that popped into my head as I tried to think back.

    Good luck!

  87. #287
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    Everything helps! I have not even riden a pump track. I need to find some spots to try out.

  88. #288
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    Busy week, we moved a lot of the big rocks at the start of the course and really cleaned it up. We also worked on polishing up the berm though still have a lot more work ahead of us.


  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappedrider View Post
    Everything helps! I have not even riden a pump track. I need to find some spots to try out.
    Definitely do a bunch of riding on differnt pumptracks, BMX tracks, skateparks, DJ spots, etc BEFORE starting to build so you have an idea what works, as in, what can be pumped and what can't. It's easy to build something that can be ridden on a bike, but a whole lot harder to build something that's fun to ride on a bike, without pedalling, in both directions.

    The guy that's helping me most with the PT I'm working on has tons of experience building and riding MTB trails, but pretty much none with park/pumptrack type stuff, so whenever he builds something on his own, we usually just have to immediately scratch it, as the lines and radii and just overall approach to building are so different than regular trail building.
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  90. #290
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    I personally like to build the berms first when building a pump track, I've found it helps me to lay our the rollers appropriately and kind of pins the track in place but I build all of mine out of imported dirt. Now if I'm building DJ trails i build jumps one at a time as the speed coming off the landing will dictate how you construct the next jump.

  91. #291
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    A little pipe dream me and another old guy have been eyeing for ages on town recreation land has really started coming together the past few weeks. Town hooked us up with dirt, a really cool spot, and tools. Proximity to a really sweet local XC trail we built seems to be helping out to get some more interest (and hopefully more people to dig).

    The area had been used to dig fill from in the past, so there's some really really cool natural features that just need a whole bunch of dirt on them to be fun as hell. It's been mostly just two of us with hand tools, so it's kinda slow going, but been having a good time with it. My kid is a rider, and we're always travelling to skateparks and jumps, so it'll be great to have something in the neighborhood.

    We've got a continuously pump-able loop now with a number of line choices and direction changes developing. Did I mention there's nothing better than playing with big piles of nice dirt?









    Last edited by slapheadmofo; 05-20-2014 at 07:12 PM.
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  92. #292
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    sounds great... your pictures dont work... not sure if its my computer or your links

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by cglasford View Post
    sounds great... your pictures dont work... not sure if its my computer or your links
    Agreed. The site the images are linked to require an account and that you're logged in:
    http://www.slapheadmofo.com/forum/do...9982&mode=view
    I get error message: "You are not authorised to download this attachment."

  94. #294
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    Sorry - pics should be fixed.

    They're from a couple days ago. Here are a few progress shots.

    We've thrown around about 45 yards of dirt so far (though we did get most of one berm done in late fall before winter set in) and have 30 more to go before we burn through our first allotment thanks to the rec area. Sure is a lot easier than mining it, specially around here.

    This was about 5 weeks ago.







    3 weeks back...








    2...(my 10 y/o is the official test ripper)







    Last week..(things were getting a little dry, but we got some needed rain since).






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  95. #295
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    DJ , Pump Track plans-table-jump.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-work-day-1.jpgour park is coming together nicely this year. The pump tracks are dialed and the 4x course is starting to come together! Grand opening 6/26....

    here is a picture... I'll get more up soon

  96. #296
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    Damn - that is major stuff! Nice!

    Ours is starting to ride okay - kid was tired and 'taking it slow and low' on his 18", but I I'm pretty happy so far with the progress. Can't wait to start incorporating the bigger lines.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kveOhkq5kw8
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  97. #297
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    Yeah we are trying to go big time. That top picture is the blue line of the 4 x course and the bottom is our beginner pump track. We use machines to do 84% of the work but hand finish.

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    Port Kells Pump Track Facelift!

    Hello everyone!

    I've followed this thread for a while and there are lots of good tips that I've used in the design and rebuild.

    In Surrey BC, I'm a member of SORCE (a mountain bike advocacy group) and we put a massive dig day in at one of our parks (Port Kells). The whole track needed to be rebuilt and now the outer line is complete and just in need of a ride and tweak (it appears the doubles may be a bit short upon ride one.

    Have a look, and I'll post some more once our inner redirection lines are done. The track is an oval as that's what we had to work with given what the city was allowing.DJ , Pump Track plans-2014-06-08-15.25.55.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-2014-06-08-15.25.59.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-2014-06-08-15.26.16.jpgDJ , Pump Track plans-2014-06-08-15.26.25.jpg

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    Progress...finally got to the point where it's really starting to be fun to ride. See how many line options you can spot...goal is to make everything rideable from most directions. Now that we've got a decent bit of pump-able stuff established, we can get a better idea how to incorporate some of the bigger natural features on the perimeters into the flow. If got 100's of feet of 'natural' walls around the area, with a good portion getting to full vert and 8' + high. Hoping to do some pretty cool dirt quarters and downright huge berms, etc. I need a dirt cannon.





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    Finally finished up (for now) on the 'hood track. Time to put down the shovel for the summer, at least as far as major work goes. I've got well over 200 hours in since the snow melted, and I've grown to hate my tamper (though I still like shovels). We spread the last of 80 yards of dirt this past weekend and got things into good enough shape to go into 'tweaking and maintenance' mode for awhile - just in time for the hot weather and mosquitoes to make their appearances. Pretty happy with how it came out and hoping to do some major expansion this fall and next spring. Kids are digging it!








    Me - way outta juice after a full day (and busy week) of digging...

    MVI 3361 - YouTube

    Donald - the Man of a Million Lines (he's 6-5 for perspective)

    MVI 3354 - YouTube

    The kid on his 18"

    MVI 3353 - YouTube
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