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  1. #26
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    [QUOTE=cmc4130]heh hheh. those weren't "my" track. but this is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ3E8u-CZ2w
    there's no question, if YOU build it, they will come.

    Sorry for the confusion on my part, I was refering to the walnut creek track. Your roller ideas look good. What is the layout for the walnut creek track look like? I know the track needs to be tailored to the land your are building it on but any ideas would help. The typical oval track with some crossover lines looks like it would get boring after awhile. It looks like you a great layout for the track with some interesting lines.

  2. #27
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    [QUOTE=Dr boo boo]
    Quote Originally Posted by cmc4130
    heh hheh. those weren't "my" track. but this is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ3E8u-CZ2w
    there's no question, if YOU build it, they will come.

    Sorry for the confusion on my part, I was refering to the walnut creek track. Your roller ideas look good. What is the layout for the walnut creek track look like? I know the track needs to be tailored to the land your are building it on but any ideas would help. The typical oval track with some crossover lines looks like it would get boring after awhile. It looks like you a great layout for the track with some interesting lines.
    it's very roughly an outer rectangular loop (think of a rectangle with rounded corners instead of an oval) that is roughly 180 feet long by about 60 or 70 wide. then there is another inside loop inside of that. there are several points where you can transfer from the outside loop to the inside loop. the starting point is at the top of a natural elevation that is probably about 15 ft. higher in elevation than the lowest point.

    the point is, if you are designing a pump track and you have a lot of space, go ahead and use a lot of space. the only restriction is how tired you'll get after one lap ! !
    it doesn't even really need to be a "track." you could have a "pump trail." the DH trail "Silky Johnson" at Sol Vista is almost a DH pump trail, with rollers and berms on almost every turn in some sections as you are going down the mountain. sooooo rad.

  3. #28
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    I want to build something with alot of different options. The outer track with the inner track seems like a good idea, I guess right now I am just caught up in design phase, trying to work out some fun transfers, Trying to work in s turns and different transfer options. I have watched the videos of the peacock pitt and that place looks awesome, i only wish there was a layout of that track that I could see. I don't want to copy someone else's design, but having never built anything like this I can sure use some ideas. I took some measurements of the property and the upper section is about 60' x 124' and level, it drops down about 4' to a large second tier that is about 90' x 124' sloping 2' from the fron to the back. I have alot to work with.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy Jim
    . . . . after building one obstacle, ride it to get an idea how much speed you'll have and where you want to start building the next. after building the next, ride both to see if they flow correctly. . . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    . . . I guess right now I am just caught up in design phase, trying to work out some fun transfers, . . . .

    even though i love designing stuff on paper and master planning, jim is right, you also just gotta start diggin, then ride it and go from there.

    certain basic principles apply, but if you're dealing with nautral terrain gradients, you have to adapt... use the decline areas as landings or drop-ins. use rollers to get up gradients. use small radius 6-9ft. for slow speed turns where you need the berm to help you generate speed. use larger radius berm 13-15ft to soak up speed at the bottom of a decline.

    careful with 180 berms--an 8 foot radius on a 90 degree berm is a great medium size turn, but an 8 foot radius on a 180 berm will feel tight and technical, because of increasing G's as you go around. go carve around in some cement skatepark bowls to get an idea of what different bowl-corner transitions feel like.

    so get started and post some pics.

  5. #30
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    Great info in this thread! My roommate and I are working on a backyard pumptrack. It's in a pretty small area (approx. 30x30). We've got it to where it pumps all the way around, but I'd like to get it to where we can catch some air. Any ideas? (Already working on a bigger drop-in).

  6. #31
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    yikes. 30 X 30 is small... honestly if that was my yard i'd be more inclined to build a skate/bmx half-pipe. you can definitely get air then...

    you don't even have room for a steep drop in then dirt jump and berm. you need 10 feet at least for the drop in, 10 feet for the berm, and that doesn't give you enough space for a double.




  7. #32
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    I guess I am kind of stuck in the planning stage. I would rather put some time into the planning then to start off without a plan, All the info I have got from this post has really been helpful, especially from CMC. Thanks. I will definetly post up progress pictures when I start. I got a good line on some dirt from a contractor in the area, I will only have to pay for the hauling and not the dirt. I only wish I had my own bobcat for the work. I have been trying to find a good used one to buy for my business, no luck yet on that.

  8. #33
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    example of pit/bowl style of building. the dirt from the pit you're riding in is used to build the rollers/rollable-double or table before and after it. the advantage is the track become more a part of the terrain and requires less digging because as the pit gets dug down, the effective height of the jump goes up. only drawback is pits fill up with water. so you have to consider drainage.

    this spot is just getting started, but we got in a good dig today...


  9. #34
    www.thegardenjumps.com
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    www.thegardenjumps.com

    This has been the summer project here in Chicago. We have part that is pretty big DJs and part that is a pumptrack with smallish tables. It really caters to everyone and is IMO more fun than a basic jump park (start hill and a few jumps then back to the start hill) You can see the design for each part on the website.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenks
    www.thegardenjumps.com

    This has been the summer project here in Chicago. We have part that is pretty big DJs and part that is a pumptrack with smallish tables. It really caters to everyone and is IMO more fun than a basic jump park (start hill and a few jumps then back to the start hill) You can see the design for each part on the website.
    jumps and website effing well done !

  11. #36
    www.thegardenjumps.com
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    Thanks, we have worked very hard on these jumps. As for the website, I cannot take any credit for that, we have a guy that is a wiz with that sort of thing.

  12. #37
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    I checked out the website, great job! That looks like a fun place to ride. I finally started laying out my pump/jump track. I'm not sure if it will be the final layout. I think I will work out a few more ideas on paper. I'll post up the proposed layouts to see if anyone has any suggestions.

  13. #38
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    as another guy from the garden let me add in another couple of tidbits.

    DON'T stack the jumps full of junk to save dirt. in years past we've done that, and its always come back to haunt us. slowly but surly its all getting pulled out and new stuff is being built pure dirt. your going to change/modify almost everything, and if you need to push a lip back your unholy screwed when you start hitting those cinder blocks. if you stack it full of wood, after several years its going to degrade. especially don't do it with berms.

    keep drainage in mind from the getgo to avoid trouble spots and be aware of what techniques you can employ to address your trouble spots, such as french drains.

    plan as well as you can, but understand that all plans will require some revision.

    build a variety of lines that can appeal to a variety of talent levels. incorporate some nice tables into your pumptrack, build some bigger tables near your main line of doubles. this will encourage progression and it will encourage even the dudes that aren't hitting the big stuff to put in shovel time on the big stuff, they'll consider it an investment in their future.

    don't screwup the trees. don't cut down healthy trees. they add character and are a life long asset, work the jumps around and through the trees, rhythm jumps don't need to be straight. learn some basic arborist techniques and prune the trees as necessary, don't just hack them up or break them off, get a saw and use it appropriately.

    make sure your crew is willing to spend time ridding and digging, but also doing all the rest of the important stuff like patching, tree trimming, watering, sweeping and cleaning up the garbage.

    build your jumps in a sustainable location, not some obviously outlaw spot that is going to get torn down next spring. go legit if possible and involve the community and your local IMBA chapter. chances are, your local IMBA chapter is up for pretty much anything as long as some people are willing to take the lead on it, they'll support you. dirtjumps that have been maintained and seasoned for several years are a thing of beauty.

    put carpets on the jumps when they arn't being ridden. this is a godsend! they'll prevent erosion, keep the dirt nice and moist and tacky and help prevent cracking.

    if you can, try to build with good dirt all the way through, facing dank clay over top of ashy crap is REALLY hard and time consuming. i have some good techniques down but its labor intensive, messy and can have mixed results requiring multiple applications.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by euroford
    as another guy from the garden let me add in another couple of tidbits.

    DON'T stack the jumps full of junk to save dirt. in years past we've done that, and its always come back to haunt us. slowly but surly its all getting pulled out and new stuff is being built pure dirt. your going to change/modify almost everything, and if you need to push a lip back your unholy screwed when you start hitting those cinder blocks. if you stack it full of wood, after several years its going to degrade. especially don't do it with berms.
    I gotta partially disagree with you here.
    While you make some darn good points, particularly with the cinder blocks, consider this:
    If you think, even for a second, that you may have to move a jump back, build a wooden ramp, not a dirt ramp. Then you build a dirt lander. The lander can remain stationary while you can move the wooden one if need be. I started a DJ vs. wood jumps thread a year or so ago and got (unjustifiably) accused of being a troll by some of the eliteist dirt jumper douche bags on here.
    Secondly, you are right, wood will degrade a bit after several years...SEVERAL years. That's more than enough time to ride those DJs. Besides, if you use a rot resistant wood like cedar, you don't have to worry about it. And if you use regular wood, just 'stain' the ends of the logs with used engine oil. Most moisture rot that wood encounters actually startrs from the ends...where the ends of the grains are exposed, not lengthwise.
    Also, if you don't put a lot of wood 'filler' in the ramps (i.e. you should at least have 1.5' layer of dirt over any solid filler you put under there. That gives you enough leeway to make adjustments.

    keep drainage in mind from the getgo to avoid trouble spots and be aware of what techniques you can employ to address your trouble spots, such as french drains.
    Agree 100% here. Plus, you can use the dirt you get from the drainage ditches you dig up.

    plan as well as you can, but understand that all plans will require some revision.

    build a variety of lines that can appeal to a variety of talent levels. incorporate some nice tables into your pumptrack, build some bigger tables near your main line of doubles. this will encourage progression and it will encourage even the dudes that aren't hitting the big stuff to put in shovel time on the big stuff, they'll consider it an investment in their future.
    Well said. I'd also like to add that someone on here in a related thread made the suggestion that you build your stunts just above your skill level...that motivates you to practice harder and get better quicker, to where you won't get bored with them as quick.


    don't screwup the trees. don't cut down healthy trees. they add character and are a life long asset, work the jumps around and through the trees, rhythm jumps don't need to be straight. learn some basic arborist techniques and prune the trees as necessary, don't just hack them up or break them off, get a saw and use it appropriately.
    Once again, I can't agree with you 100%. Yes, while you should refrain from cutting down healthy trees, if you are building wood stunts as well as dirt jumps, like I am, big enough trees can become useful upright post supports. Also, if you have a thick thicket of trees you want a line to go through, thinning out the area a little bit can be beneficial. It allows the breeze to flow through there easier, it also allows a bit more sunlight in for the remaining trees. This is one area where I say 'use your best judgment'.


    make sure your crew is willing to spend time ridding and digging, but also doing all the rest of the important stuff like patching, tree trimming, watering, sweeping and cleaning up the garbage.
    Most definitely

    build your jumps in a sustainable location, not some obviously outlaw spot that is going to get torn down next spring. go legit if possible and involve the community and your local IMBA chapter. chances are, your local IMBA chapter is up for pretty much anything as long as some people are willing to take the lead on it, they'll support you. dirtjumps that have been maintained and seasoned for several years are a thing of beauty.
    Couldn't agree more. That's why I shake my head whenever someone posts pictures of a secret trail and other riders get all huffy and puffy about it. That situation just screams, 'hey I've built some dirt jumps on land that I wasn't supposed to'. I can certainly do w/o that eliteist attitude. So much for mtn bikers being a single community huh?

    put carpets on the jumps when they arn't being ridden. this is a godsend! they'll prevent erosion, keep the dirt nice and moist and tacky and help prevent cracking.
    I've seen that before but it really didn't register until you mentioned it. I'm definitely going to try that with my DJs! Should we put carpet on the landers too?

    if you can, try to build with good dirt all the way through, facing dank clay over top of ashy crap is REALLY hard and time consuming. i have some good techniques down but its labor intensive, messy and can have mixed results requiring multiple applications.
    You also have to consider where you live. Here in TN we have predominately clay soil. To add insult to injury, we have anywhere from 6" to 1/5' of top'clay', then solid limestone. We don't have an 80' layer of topsoil like Iowa/Nebraska, etc.
    So unless you have the $$ to have expensive topsoil delivered to your house, you have to make do with what you got.

    Great write-up regardless dude.
    Jump it onto something off of something or over something.

    There's more to freeriding than dirt jumps.

  15. #40
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    i'm just sayin, but over the years we've almost 100% regretted burying crap in the jumps.

    but... we have a pretty much unlimited dirt supply, we get the stuff trucked in and have no shortage of sources. around here, companies have to pay to dump fill someplace, they are stoked when we offer to take some off their hands. your millage may vary obviously.

    yeah, definitely put carpets on the landers, hell put em on everything if you can!

    and yes, a thinning can be very good for a patch of woods, with some luck every wooded DJ spot should have their own arborist geek / chainsaw junky to take care of that stuff.

    another thing to consider: tabletop jumps, with flat tops tend to erode sideways pretty fast making a maintenance nightmare, the jumps get incrementally thinner and in some cases had to be rebuilt 1-2 times a year.

    having gotten tired of that, we built some wooden retaining walls and this has worked WONDERS. a couple of 4x4 posts, some 2x10's, a couple of bags of quickrete for the posts and an afternoon of work. that $60 has saved us countless unnecessary rebuilds.

    like so:

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  16. #41
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    heres my back yard mini. Now being a new Dad and not a lot of extra time the past year or so, I decided to put something in the back yard for convenience and also ride consistency.I also love to rip and help build at some local trail spots when time permits but I felt it was time to tear up the back yard so here it is. This video is when the track was only about 2 months old. It looks different now and will get even bigger and smother this coming season but this is a vid a buddy of mine took when he came by. Click on the link and scroll down to the August 5th date where is says "Thanks for the call" . I think I've decided that from now on, no matter how big or small our yard is, there will be dirt. Also, I like keeping at like a grassroots level, its not the cutest or biggest track but its something that many people can do.

    http://raisindetra.blogspot.com/sear...3%3A00-04%3A00

  17. #42
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    Here is an idea I have for a layout. The area I want to build the pump/jump track is about 54' x 122' this leaves me with an area to build a roll-in at the end without all the transfers. What do you think of the layout? Any suggestions or ideas for improvement?
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmb_mike
    Couldn't agree more. That's why I shake my head whenever someone posts pictures of a secret trail and other riders get all huffy and puffy about it. That situation just screams, 'hey I've built some dirt jumps on land that I wasn't supposed to'. I can certainly do w/o that eliteist attitude. So much for mtn bikers being a single community huh?
    I don't mind sharing my 1,000's of hours of work with whoever wants to ride as long as you respect the trails and help out. When you show up time and time and time again, case the lips and landings, set fires, leave your trash behind, and do absolutely ZERO work then you are not part of the "community"--you are a f'king poacher. I'm quite content with my "elitest" attitude in those cases.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmb_mike
    . . . That's why I shake my head whenever someone posts pictures of a secret trail and other riders get all huffy and puffy about it. That situation just screams, 'hey I've built some dirt jumps on land that I wasn't supposed to'. I can certainly do w/o that eliteist attitude. So much for mtn bikers being a single community huh?
    . . . .
    The rest of your post is pretty good, but I don't see your point about pictures...

    Do not post pictures of secret trails. is number 11 on "The Digging Rules." Best way to be in the "community" is to respect the rules and respect the people that built what you are riding.

    If you are so against unauthorized trails, THEN DON'T RIDE THEM.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    Here is an idea I have for a layout. The area I want to build the pump/jump track is about 54' x 122' this leaves me with an area to build a roll-in at the end without all the transfers. What do you think of the layout? Any suggestions or ideas for improvement?


    Nice drawing and good ideas. Pump tracks are all about complete freedom . . . but there is a math aspect to it as well, as far as what works and how it works....

    Having 4 corners of a rectangle is good. WAAAY better than having a huge oval end or 180 turn on one entire end.

    Shorter radius (tighter) turns are better for pumping or whipping out of if you are at a slower speed. Larger radius turns soak up speed, and are only "whippable" if you are already going reasonably fast.

    Therefore if you match up the 4 corners with the same radius berms, your pump track will have a consistent speed. If they are different radii, it means the pump track will have fast spots and slow spots, which is fine if you want to have to accelerate/decelerate. Just note that this will happen.

  21. #46
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    Finally came up with a design for the track that I think will give alot of options for different lines. I cleared the lot and got rid of all the weeds. I watered it really good and got it compacted (used my Truck F250). The soil is sandy but it compacted really well. I have a nice base to work with now. I am having 100 yds of clay soil brought in today. I will post up pics as I build. The radius for the berms are now the same. I am going to build a ramp for a roll-in and one end of the track since the lot is level.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    Finally came up with a design for the track that I think will give alot of options for different lines. I cleared the lot and got rid of all the weeds. I watered it really good and got it compacted (used my Truck F250). The soil is sandy but it compacted really well. I have a nice base to work with now. I am having 100 yds of clay soil brought in today. I will post up pics as I build. The radius for the berms are now the same. I am going to build a ramp for a roll-in and one end of the track since the lot is level.
    that looks good. if you're gonna plan it out that much you'll want to figure out where the rollers are going to be as well.... i think 11 or 12 foot spacing (peak to peak) is good for smaller rollers and 13-14 ft. is good for larger ones... bmx tracks typically have 14 foot spacing on rollers--but they are designed for very high speed...

    are you going to have tabletop jumps or rollable doubles ("camel back" style) in the pump track, or is just going to be rollers ?

    here's a line of small tables in Stowe VT:


  23. #48
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    CMC,good call on the inside 180 berm being too close to the outside 90. I was just thinking about that today when they were delivering the dirt. I had planned on building the outside 90's first and then the inside berms, since I have the room I think I will move the 180's more towards the inside of the track. I will be building rollable doubles and table tops for sure. I want my kids to be able to use the track as well but I don't want just a bunch of small little rollers. I like your idea about planning out the roller spacing as well. What size would you consider a small and a large roller? I really liked your idea about the doubles leading into the pit with the step-up after the pit. I definitely want to incorporate something like that into one of the lines. How would you layout some of the rollers/doubles and tables to make it flow. The distance on the outside lines from the end of one berm to the start of the next is about 95'.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr boo boo
    CMC,good call on the inside 180 berm being too close to the outside 90. I was just thinking about that today when they were delivering the dirt. I had planned on building the outside 90's first and then the inside berms, since I have the room I think I will move the 180's more towards the inside of the track. I will be building rollable doubles and table tops for sure. I want my kids to be able to use the track as well but I don't want just a bunch of small little rollers. I like your idea about planning out the roller spacing as well. What size would you consider a small and a large roller? I really liked your idea about the doubles leading into the pit with the step-up after the pit. I definitely want to incorporate something like that into one of the lines. How would you layout some of the rollers/doubles and tables to make it flow. The distance on the outside lines from the end of one berm to the start of the next is about 95'.
    well, i can tell you some things we have done. there is definitely no single way to do it.

    these rollers at Hammerhead bike shop if I remember right I spaced them about 12 or 13 feet apart. they are about 14" to 18" high.


    in this pic are what i call the accelerating rollers, like the drawing above in the thread. this line is upgradient. each roller is bigger (both length and height) from the one before it and the space to the next one gets bigger. it was not easy to get right. i think we tore it down and rebuilt at least 3 times.... the last one is (first in the pic) is about 7 or 8 peak to peak, maybe 2'6" high



    this is a view of the other drawing, with the step down to step up.


    these type of bowls may be pretty tough to re-create on flat ground if you're not digging below gradient but building everything up instead. our big pits are 3-4 feet deep, meaning with a 1 foot roller they are almost like having 4 or 5 foot tall jumps....

    this is an idea i had..... i have not actually built it exactly like this, but pretty similar...having 11 foot bowls/pits peak to peak but then instead of a normal roller have a monster roller that is exactly half... i think it would create a feeling of floating over each roller--sort of jumping them with tires a couple inches off the surface. but 11 feet is pretty close together for peaks, so this would have a slow speed quick pump feel.... the 11 foot long pit also happens to coincide with the surface distance of an 8 foot radius 90 degree turn !!

  25. #50
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    Those ideas sound good. I brought in dirt but I still would like to dig down for some pits. I would have brought in less dirt but I have alot of sand and I want the track to last. 14" to 18" roller seem short to me but this is the first track I have ever built. How would a pit like the one in the picture be to roll thru and not jump? My boys are only 6 and 4 and aren't jumping yet. Is the spacing on the pit with the step-up similar to the drawing earlier in this thread? I know I will probably build some of these lines more than once to find out what works but it doesn't hurt to start out with a good plan.

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