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  1. #1
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    wow!!!! the real world - mtbr

    you have GOT to see this! a 29er pal of mine clued me in. what a friggin riot! or should i say what a friggin travesty?

    Walt Works frame NOT right - public challenge to Walt

    please never let this pissant walk into our shops or buy a turner.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  2. #2
    Mexican e-rider
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    Wow, the customer from hell--- someone needs to get on Prozac ASAP
    "Hell, the Titus Moderator can't pass a cantina without gettin' the shakes"

  3. #3
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    Two words:
    Nut Job

    I dig how he's so attached to his cage that he won't try anything else or even accept a free one to check out. Durn nice of shiggy who as far as I know is just an in the know bike guy with a tire fetish, not Walt. He's more concerned over the ability to use a specific stinkin cage than actually having a bike to train on and race. As Bugs Bunny would say: "What a maroon!"
    Big hoopy.
    Turner Sultan / On One Inbred

  4. #4
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    He has to use a specific cage, as it seems. Not try anything else. Return a frame, because of a bottle cage. Could have asked Walt about what combo he was designing around, no? Could have supplied his cage and bottles for the build, but doesn't seem like it.

    One thing that has to be noted is the magnitude of the race he's in. He doesn't want to worry about the access to the bottle being impeded by anything, nor worry about a cage he doesn't know much about ejecting the bottle. Understandable too.

    The solution lies in the middle, but I dare not post that because demoslug will certainly follow me to that thread, too.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    The solution lies in the middle, but I dare not post that because demoslug will certainly follow me to that thread, too.

    Got the Titus gestapo of your tail huh?

    That ds guy is a real tool.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, he's following me all around mtbr. He's got to have my post history in his bookmarks.

    Those guys take criticism real personal. The best was when this dude started lying about things I said, so I just sent the links to the poster really said them to craigH to have the flaming threads finally closed.

    Then he warned the Foes board about me when I was inquiring about the FXR, but my post history shows I'm a Foes fan, too.

    He also doesn't like bringing up the couple of occasions where I defended Titus. Oh well. There are dipsticks all around and I will continue to eat cookie dough.
    Last edited by Jerk_Chicken; 03-24-2006 at 06:31 AM.

  7. #7
    rr
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    Yeah, if you can't get what you want with a custom then ouch, your hopeless. I like how Walt offered a fix but the nutjob wouldn't apologize. I was in the hotel business for 10 years and I saw all kinds, this guy reminds me of one of those nuts that goes on the road for business and is all pissed off about it and takes it out on everyone along the way.

  8. #8
    Negative Rep Points!!!!
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    Wth???

    Friggin' 29" wheel nutcases!
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    I like how Walt offered a fix but the [SIZE=4]nutjob [/SIZE]wouldn't apologize.
    WTF rroeder????
    I said NUT JOB was two words. It doesn't fit properly in the sentence as two words. Whack Job is two words and works well but I like the sounds of nut job much better and won't change!

    Big hoopy.
    Turner Sultan / On One Inbred

  10. #10
    Lay off the Levers
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    Thank DOG he didn't order an EBM mount...those things are notoriously difficult to get fitted.

    But then, he doesn't appear to be properly equipped to use an EMB anyway.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
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    Uhh...

    That's 15 minutes of my life I wish I had back.

    That guy must have a hard time getting through life.

  12. #12
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    IMO, Walts more in-the-wrong than this poster. Serious problem or not, the guy paid out the ducats for Walks product and is unsatisifed. Walt now needs to stand behind his product and if nothing else, he owes this guy a serious review of the situation and if appropriate, some kind of make-good. A quick email in response is not enough.

    Remember guys....whats a huge reason we all own Turners?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedThrills
    IMO, Walts more in-the-wrong than this poster. Serious problem or not, the guy paid out the ducats for Walks product and is unsatisifed. Walt now needs to stand behind his product and if nothing else, he owes this guy a serious review of the situation and if appropriate, some kind of make-good. A quick email in response is not enough.

    Remember guys....whats a huge reason we all own Turners?
    Oh, come on! The Walt guy offered to fix the frame, but the nutjob refused to send it back in. Instead, he sold it for $400 to another mtbr'er (like half the original price). Totally crazy. He also didn't tell Walt that the frame had to be designed around one particular cage, just that he wanted two mounts. Which he got.

  14. #14
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Goddamnit, the thread is closed. I wanted to add some fuel to the fire.

    Anyone that has looked at small frames (like 13-15s) for any length of time knows how difficult it is to get a water bottle in there and have it fit. This guy basically asked for something that's not necessarily possible, and the frame builder pulled it off the best he could. If he wants more space for a water bottle, he needs to compramise or as was suggested, specificy exactly what components he's going to be running (front derailer). The poster wanted a "custom" frame, but didn't do all the research and didn't really understand enough about frames. It's his fault, and no one elses in this respect.



    I remember back in 1992 when I used to have a water bottle....
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Elvis
    Oh, come on! The Walt guy offered to fix the frame, but the nutjob refused to send it back in. Instead, he sold it for $400 to another mtbr'er (like half the original price). Totally crazy. He also didn't tell Walt that the frame had to be designed around one particular cage, just that he wanted two mounts. Which he got.
    Easy, baby. I didnt see that part. That goes a long way. But I STILL dont think Walt's initial reaction was good. You stand behind your product first, ask questions later. Walt seems to have done the opposite. And sometimes, you have to bite the bullet and satisfy an unreasonable customer, even as a business owner you KNOW youre right. Becuase you know what? Youre NEVER right. The customer is. Always. You do it the other way and you know what youre eventually known as? "Tony."

    Hey, dont get me wrong. Walt sounds like a fine guy who builds nice bikes. I just think IMHO he could have handled this better.

    FWIW, the two cages on my 52cm Trek Madone have lousy clearance, too.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=SpeedThrills]But I STILL dont think Walt's initial reaction was good. You stand behind your product first, ask questions later. QUOTE]

    Well, if you read it all, you'll find out that the first time the dude called Walt, it was at 11 or 12 at night and he was in bed asleep with his wife. Not a big surprise that he didn't get a favorable reaction. Then he hauled off and started his post at 8AM the next morning.

    Personally, I don't think that business owners have to cater to every customer's demands. IMO, the customer isn't always right, particularly when they're clearly wrong.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
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    [QUOTE=Jayem]Goddamnit, the thread is closed. I wanted to add some fuel to the fire.
    QUOTE]

    I don't know what the heck is wrong with the moderators on that board. Don't they know a good time when they see it? Apparently not. There are several other related threads that are locked. It's too bad, because the "I'm a whiny little jerk" thread could've been a classic.

  18. #18
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Elvis
    I don't know what the heck is wrong with the moderators on that board. Don't they know a good time when they see it? Apparently not. There are several other related threads that are locked. It's too bad, because the "I'm a whiny little jerk" thread could've been a classic.
    Dude, you're *this* close to making me call the moderators on you. That comment is just too offensive to me.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  19. #19
    Making fat cool since '71
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    He has a fetish or two...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedRocker
    Two words:
    Nut Job

    I dig how he's so attached to his cage that he won't try anything else or even accept a free one to check out. Durn nice of shiggy who as far as I know is just an in the know bike guy with a tire fetish, not Walt. He's more concerned over the ability to use a specific stinkin cage than actually having a bike to train on and race. As Bugs Bunny would say: "What a maroon!"
    Shig is a way nice guy *and* a bit of a fetish-ish dude. Not that it's a bad thing to know what you like...or don't.

    It's customers like that 514-tool that really reinforce my tendency towards being asocial (boardering on antisocial...). Have fun all.

    Kraig...

    BTW: Loving my Spack so far (not sold on the DHX though).
    Are the wheels roundish? Ride it.

    Disciples Of Dirt, come ride with us.

  20. #20
    Baked Alaskan
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    That's a real winner in terms of what not to do when you're unhappy, give it a few days - not hours - to sort everything out. Walt could have responded better, but don't call him out publicly the next morning. Damn, you wait 4 months for a frame and can't even go 24 hours before declaring that the builder is a snake.

    But with all the alternatives being presented to the original poster and his unwillingness to even TRY a different cage, it was pretty obvious that he had a major case of buyers remorse. There was no way he would have been happy with the frame under any circumstances.

    I wasn't surprised at all when he just sold the frame for next to nothing. I personally thought he was gonna post pic of the frame after running over it with his car or something like that - the direction of his posts had meltdown written all over them.

    The comedy of a 5'10" rider on a 14" frame, whining about water bottle placement or making assumptions about a custom frame instead of having half a brain and discussing it with the builder before the frame was made -- especially if it was SO crucial to use that cage and only that cage. Makes me wonder if that's another screen name for Davide.

    The frame was being built with such wacky dimensions - who's buying custom and doesn't know small frames have water bottle issues? He did sign off on the design before it was built. Its his own fault for assuming Walt knew every little minute detail of what he wanted and then for being such a dumbass for not even taking him up on his offer to fix it. Proof positive you can't please everyone.
    The red couch has moved from Alaska to Florida...

  21. #21
    No, that's not phonetic
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    If the buyer had SPECIFIED EXACTLY which bottle cage he wanted to be able to run, then his complaint was justified. If he simply said "I want two bottle mounts" and Walt made a bike which accepted two bottles (even if it required an obscure, but available, cage), then the buyer has no one to blame but himself (for not making his specific cage fetish clear).

    It was a dumb thread any way you slice it.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

    Personally, I don't think that business owners have to cater to every customer's demands. IMO, the customer isn't always right, particularly when they're clearly wrong.
    Not to defend the dummy in that post, but how do you blast HIM, but then come up with the above?

    With all due respect, youd make a really lousy businessman or owner with that attitude.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedThrills
    Not to defend the dummy in that post, but how do you blast HIM, but then come up with the above?

    With all due respect, youd make a really lousy businessman or owner with that attitude.
    I was actually responding to a previous comment from you:

    'And sometimes, you have to bite the bullet and satisfy an unreasonable customer, even as a business owner you KNOW youre right. Becuase you know what? Youre NEVER right. The customer is. Always. You do it the other way and you know what youre eventually known as? "Tony."'

    I totally disagree with it. Why should business owners be blackmailed by any nut-case with a computer and access to the internet? Does it help out other customers if these guys get their way all the time, wrong or right? Uh, that would be a big "no." For instance, what if the next 100 people who buy a Flux decide that it's a great trials bike, and start dropping it off the roofs of their houses. Do you really think that Turner should give them new frames for free when they predictably destroy their original frames? How long could Turner stay in business doing that? Not too long, would be my guess.

    In any event, you're saying that Walt handled things the wrong way. But if you check out the posts on the 29'er board, it's pretty clear that the vast majority of the posters there feel as though he came out a winner. I really doubt that he's done anything to hurt his business. As for you last comment about my "attitude," I've got to tell you that you know nothing about me, my qualifications in any profession, or my attitude. Peace out.
    Last edited by Fat Elvis; 03-25-2006 at 05:39 PM.

  24. #24
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    Heyyyyyyyyyy. Wait a sec. It just hit me: if my XL Spot that DT/Greg hooked me up with has room for two tacos and a hose routing braze-on on the TT then surely it could have had room for two cage mounts on the down tube. Life is just not fair sometimes
    [SIZE=1]That was serious sarcasm folks[/SIZE]





    Oh, speaking of poor service from complete jerks - big thanks to Chad at Red Barn for getting ahold of some hard-to-find pulleys to fit my 2004 X.9 RD! Holy cow, they really do fit!!!!!! You're the man Chad. The stem and bars feel great too, many thanks for helping me make up my mind.
    Big hoopy.
    Turner Sultan / On One Inbred

  25. #25
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    I know that old design has those bearing equipped pulleys and mine are in need of replacement soon, but are they that hard to find?

    I was suspecting they were related to the old 9.0 style, but never confirmed it. How much?

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