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  1. #1
    mtbr member
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    Would you ride a Flux Horst Link over TNT?

    Have any of you ridden a Flux Horst Link? If so did you like the ride better than the TNT Flux? I know there were very lenghty discussions about HL vs TNT. This is not another one of those.

    I just want to know if any one prefers the HL Flux ride over the TNT and why. Honest opinions please...

    thank you for your feedback.
    Sit and spin my ass...

  2. #2
    mtbr member
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    I owned a '05 Flux that I loved, but all my Turners since have been TNT and I don't miss the HL in the least. The new rear end on the '08 Flux would be more than enough to make me want a TNT rear rather than the older HL.
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  3. #3
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    i have no opinion....
    No, I'm NOT back!

  4. #4
    ride
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    I had an HL Flux for quite a while. When the TNT rears came out, DT and CO sent me a new rear end to put on it. The only difference I could tell was that the TNT was marginally laterally stiffer. I really mean marginally. I couldn't really tell the difference so I never put the HL back on the bike.

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  5. #5
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zion Rasta
    This is not another one of those.
    by the way, yes it is. good to see ya back none the less.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  6. #6
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    i have no opinion....

    Says it all really time for a beer

    What was the q again
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  7. #7
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    Had a HL Flux, then went to an RFX with Tnt. Supposedly the effects of the pivot change should have been bigger in a longer travel bike, all according to the armchair engineers. In reality, there was really no difference. The rear end still feels great and never feels like it's stiffening or losing traction.

  8. #8
    PSI
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    tnt is a religion

    starting threads like this is asking for holy fury. as noted before, and i say this with all due respect to all tnt worshipers, i personally prefer hl rears over tnts on both my flux and spot after trying tnt on both.

    that said, i have to say for fairness that the tnt was very close to the hl w/o brake jack and pedal feedback. so close in fact that the differences i felt (plushness, sensitivity, traction) are in all likelihood subjective. still, being a subjective hl worshiper i prefer hl.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
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    tHANK YOU TO ALL AND YOUR HONEST FEED BACK. I have to make a decision on what rear to keep, so before i let go of the now extinct HL rear I wanted to hear one more time whether I should keep it or not. I think I will keep the HL and get rid of the TNT rear since I can always get one if need be.

    Cactus, I just had to make a decision. Nice to hear from you again. I have been 29er sized in a hard tail kind of way so I have been away from homerland for a while. Is it time for a sultan???

    If you had a Flux and a Spot and you lived in Dallas - which would you keep????????
    Sit and spin my ass...

  10. #10
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    Ouch

    My horse flesh has just started to heal then this starts again!

    PSI, thank you for your honest opinion, you love the HL even if you cannot really actually tell the difference. There is nothing wrong with that, it is a feeling and you are OK with it. I am OK with it, I hope everyone else is OK with it.

    With the switch from ICT licensing to TNT in 2006 I have shown that on the trail there is no difference in almost every case? My bet is PSI would do no better than half in double blind tests. I am not ashamed that I made the switch. I am ashamed that I was legally bullied and that I did not know the difference between Horst dropouts and TNT before the ICT sh!t hit the fan. Honestly, the first ride I ever did on the TNT I was amazed at how well it went up and down the Rock Creek trail outside Bishop Cal. Yes I climbed it, most of it anyway, to get a feel of the difference between ICT and TNT. I chose Rock Creek because of its remoteness and roughness for a fair fight. I was amazed with the non difference. I was embarrased in that canyon I had been paying for the ICT when the performance difference was nothing. I knew after looking long at the computer that the down hill performance would be fine, but I was worried about the 1.1mm of chain stay change. Well that proved to be inpercieveable. Not to the computer, but on the trail.

    DT

  11. #11
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    I am keeping my Horst rear until Dave designs the new DW-rear that I can bolt onto my existing front triangle.

  12. #12
    Daniel the Dog
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    You cut yourself with your marketing...

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    My horse flesh has just started to heal then this starts again!

    PSI, thank you for your honest opinion, you love the HL even if you cannot really actually tell the difference. There is nothing wrong with that, it is a feeling and you are OK with it. I am OK with it, I hope everyone else is OK with it.

    With the switch from ICT licensing to TNT in 2006 I have shown that on the trail there is no difference in almost every case? My bet is PSI would do no better than half in double blind tests. I am not ashamed that I made the switch. I am ashamed that I was legally bullied and that I did not know the difference between Horst dropouts and TNT before the ICT sh!t hit the fan. Honestly, the first ride I ever did on the TNT I was amazed at how well it went up and down the Rock Creek trail outside Bishop Cal. Yes I climbed it, most of it anyway, to get a feel of the difference between ICT and TNT. I chose Rock Creek because of its remoteness and roughness for a fair fight. I was amazed with the non difference. I was embarrased in that canyon I had been paying for the ICT when the performance difference was nothing. I knew after looking long at the computer that the down hill performance would be fine, but I was worried about the 1.1mm of chain stay change. Well that proved to be inpercieveable. Not to the computer, but on the trail.

    DT
    Self inflicted gun shot

    Jaybo

  13. #13
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    DT - Sorry for bringing up this HLvsTNT crap again!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    My horse flesh has just started to heal then this starts again!

    PSI, thank you for your honest opinion, you love the HL even if you cannot really actually tell the difference. There is nothing wrong with that, it is a feeling and you are OK with it. I am OK with it, I hope everyone else is OK with it.

    With the switch from ICT licensing to TNT in 2006 I have shown that on the trail there is no difference in almost every case? My bet is PSI would do no better than half in double blind tests. I am not ashamed that I made the switch. I am ashamed that I was legally bullied and that I did not know the difference between Horst dropouts and TNT before the ICT sh!t hit the fan. Honestly, the first ride I ever did on the TNT I was amazed at how well it went up and down the Rock Creek trail outside Bishop Cal. Yes I climbed it, most of it anyway, to get a feel of the difference between ICT and TNT. I chose Rock Creek because of its remoteness and roughness for a fair fight. I was amazed with the non difference. I was embarrased in that canyon I had been paying for the ICT when the performance difference was nothing. I knew after looking long at the computer that the down hill performance would be fine, but I was worried about the 1.1mm of chain stay change. Well that proved to be inpercieveable. Not to the computer, but on the trail.

    DT

    I just needed to make a decision on which to keep and wanted some Homer feedbak.

    With the FSR patent on its last leg, would you consider bringing the ICT back?

    A DW rear would make it for a good experiment. Then you will have a million threads like:

    HL vs. TNT. vs. DW

    If you make a DW, I will be motivated to justify another Turner in the house
    I can tell my wife that since gas prices are so high, i needed the new DW rear...

    Oh and by the way, can you make the DW rear compatible with 2005-2008 front triangles so that we can swap at will?
    Thanks
    Sit and spin my ass...

  14. #14
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    id keep both and move.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  15. #15
    Lay off the Levers
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    CC: LOL!

    ZR: the ICT license is owned by Ellsworth, Specialized owns the Horst Link/FSR License. DT was paying for both. Even when Spechy's patent expires, EW will still own the ICT patent which is far more expensive and more competitively managed (.ie Turner and EW are direct competitors). IMO for the small difference in performance (TNT an improvement for me) I don't see it being worth much to go back to ICT. (I've also owned both for a couple of years)

    DW links was another discussion beaten to death frequently here. Still plenty of ppl who have tried DW's and weren't totally blown away. It's different, yes, but just looking at the threads in the Ibis forum about shock tuning, sag settings and comparisons to IH and Pivot it seems to me the DWL is just as dependant on the designer as any other linkage design. So far the read suggests its more a function of being more-different than it is more-better...time will tell but I wouldn't go diving into that pool without looking.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  16. #16
    Silence and Thunder...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zion Rasta
    tHANK YOU TO ALL AND YOUR HONEST FEED BACK. I have to make a decision on what rear to keep, so before i let go of the now extinct HL rear I wanted to hear one more time whether I should keep it or not. I think I will keep the HL and get rid of the TNT rear since I can always get one if need be.

    Cactus, I just had to make a decision. Nice to hear from you again. I have been 29er sized in a hard tail kind of way so I have been away from homerland for a while. Is it time for a sultan???

    If you had a Flux and a Spot and you lived in Dallas - which would you keep????????
    Dude, if you already have both and have ridden both, then it seems that you're just insulting yourself by coming on here and asking other people which one -you- should like better.
    You should be telling us which one you like better, and why, if you can even tell the diff...

    Regardless, it sounds like you should:
    1] move
    2] sell both 'questionable' bikes, and...
    3] move on to a Sultan!
    5 miles on a Sultan

    ...every day sends future to past...

  17. #17
    Amphibious Technologies
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    On The Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    ... I have shown that on the trail there is no difference in almost every case... I was worried about the 1.1mm of chain stay change. Well that proved to be imperceptible. Not to the computer, but on the trail.
    That right there is the crux of the matter. All this marketing BS about linkage system advantages are almost always imperceptible on the trail. Yes, differences may be observed on pavement and/or certain gear combination but all of that disappears (imperceptible, unmeasurable or becomes insignificant) once you hit dirt. I challenged some well know linkage designer to prove his marketing but all I got was personal insults. So there you have it.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  18. #18
    Roy
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    So let me get this straight - you've ridden both, extensively, yet have no ability to make a decision as to which one is better and why? And people wonder why this forum gets bashed by outsiders.

  19. #19
    Lay off the Levers
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    Oh for cryin outloud Roy, just tell the guy what he likes already.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  20. #20
    PSI
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    My horse flesh has just started to heal then this starts again!

    PSI, thank you for your honest opinion.....

    With the switch from ICT licensing to TNT in 2006....
    DT
    DT, i can go on for hours about a certain wine, its grapes and appellation and my wife will go: "hmm, i like it", or, "hmm, i don't". so its all subjective in the end and as a loyal customer and fan i appreciate the fact that you feel the same regarding the importance of subjectivity. also, as a loyal customer and fan im happy to finally see black pixels on white that it was the ICT and not spesh that forced the move. i knew it!* I'm no expert but its amazing how close the new and old rears feel and i admire the choices you made, not putting up with ict and not going for some silly anti squat bs for marketing reasons.



    [SIZE="2"][SIZE="1"]*one day when we are old(er) men (i think were about the same age) we can sit over a beer, (or a virtual chat) and you can tell me the tale of HOW THE FRAK DOES SOMEONE GET A PATENT ON SOMETHING THAT EXISTED ALREADY?!?? isn't there a prior knowledge clause or something? but that's just my over developed sense of justice working overtime [/SIZE][/SIZE]

  21. #21
    mtbr member
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    Doood

    Quote Originally Posted by xjbebop
    Dude, if you already have both and have ridden both, then it seems that you're just insulting yourself by coming on here and asking other people which one -you- should like better.
    You should be telling us which one you like better, and why, if you can even tell the diff...

    Regardless, it sounds like you should:
    1] move
    2] sell both 'questionable' bikes, and...
    3] move on to a Sultan!
    5 miles on a Sultan

    Not really insulting myself. I have an HL Spot and a TNT flux - two different bikes with different geometries. So before I do the old swaparoo, I wanted to hear some experiences on the Flux HL specific and not blanket statements about HL vs. TNT.

    Anyways, thank you for the feedback and you are absolutely right - The sultan is calling my name.
    Sit and spin my ass...

  22. #22
    mtbr member
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    Are you Kill Roy? Mr. Roboto

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    So let me get this straight - you've ridden both, extensively, yet have no ability to make a decision as to which one is better and why? And people wonder why this forum gets bashed by outsiders.
    Roy, I really do not want to get rid of any bikes, I just have too many. I love both the Spot and the Flux. I just needed some profound feedback on HL Flux specific. Who knows, I may just keep both.
    So dude, your breaking my balls instead of helping me make a decision. And, what is wrong with asking for opinions. To Zilla's point - Just tell me the HL is better and that a Flux with an HL rear is the best bike ever.... and that the Spot would benefit of the stiffer TNT although that is why I ride a 10mm TA on the HL.

    I just needed some oomph to sell one of my Turners. I have bougth Turners only, I have never sold one and I do not know if I can do that emotionally. Now we are talking about the real issue....
    Sit and spin my ass...

  23. #23
    mtbr member
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    Is a 2005 HL Spot rear compatible with a 2008 Sultan front triangle?
    Sit and spin my ass...

  24. #24
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    Just get the Sultan already


  25. #25
    Lay off the Levers
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    I somehow don't think a 26" rear triangle will handle a 29" wheel very well.

    I was busting Roy's balls not yours. Really you'd get the best answer swapping rears between your bikes.

    I don't envy you having to sell either. I sold my RFX and miss it terribly, even though I love my Spot and Highline. Make sure you sell the bike you really ride the least.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

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