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Thread: Why???

  1. #1
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    Why???

    Hey Turner guys, I just thought I'd pop in here and ask some of your opinions on the bike I'm currently riding. I'm on a loaner Turner Flux spec'd out pretty well (X.9 drivetrain, FSA all around, Truvativ carbon cranks, F100 RL fork, etc) and, to be honest, I hate the way the thing rides.

    I've gone through and adjusted the pressure on the shock and fork to where they should be for my weight/riding style and really like the component setup (I normally ride X.0 triggers but the X.9's aren't bad) but I hate the way the thing feels.

    I know it has a longer wheelbase than my Stumpy (my "regular" bike) and the stem is about 10mm longer but I really feel like I'm riding/driving a truck when I'm on this thing as it's really slow to respond.

    What's the deal here? Is this just the way Turners "feel" (i.e. slow and deliberate) or is there something more here that's throwing me for a loop?

    Honestly, at this point, I'm literally having dreams about my "real" bike getting out of the shop so that I can get back on a bike that handles properly...thoughts?
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  2. #2
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    Is you Stumpy a HT?
    What size are the two bikes?
    What shock are you running on the Flux? What settings?
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  3. #3
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    Hmmmm

    The TT is longer AND the stem is longer and it feels slow and deliberate? I cannot understand why a dealer would have let a demo out with a obvious
    math problem un solved. Stumpy TT, measured horizontally plus your stem, note #, then subtract the Flux TT length from previous #. That is stem to start with. Of course your seat height, seat fore and aft, and seat post style should be identical on both bikes.

    Please stay in touch.

    DT

  4. #4
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    Both bikes are size "large" and both "cockpits" feel about the same (i.e. I sit about as far from the handlebars on one as I do the other). The Stumpy is the '04 FSR Pro so it has the exact same 100mm of rear travel (although it feels like the Stumpy has more) on a Fox Triad shock. The Flux has a Fox RP3 mounted to it so shock "feel" is similar.

    As for the settings, the Turner suspension set up is set up in a manner that approximates the settings on my Stumpy.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    The TT is longer AND the stem is longer and it feels slow and deliberate? I cannot understand why a dealer would have let a demo out with a obvious
    math problem un solved. Stumpy TT, measured horizontally plus your stem, note #, then subtract the Flux TT length from previous #. That is stem to start with. Of course your seat height, seat fore and aft, and seat post style should be identical on both bikes.

    Please stay in touch.

    DT
    The TT isn't any longer than that of the Stumpy (they have approximately the same "feel" when mounted), it's the wheel-base that's longer.

    As for the seat height; they are similar as I adjusted the seat to fit me. It's a different saddle however, I used to have the exact same saddle so that shouldn't make too much of a difference.

    All in all, the bike is properly sized and fit for me and the only reason I even posted is because I know most people who own these things have a love affair with them so I'm trying to figure out if it's just me (i.e. different strokes for different folks) or if there's something else going on.
    There's a fine line between courage and foolishness. Too bad it's not a fence.

  6. #6
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    I'm not sure what settings apromimate the Stumpy settings but since they're different bikes, with different shocks, the settings could be different.

    Maybe a little more info would help:
    Rider weight?
    How much sag?
    What shock pressure?
    Have you tried the (-) (0) & (+) settings on the RP3?
    It might help to know the rebound setting you have on the RP3 as well.

    Also position feel can be misleading w/o actual measurement. Is it possible to measure saddle to bars and compare?
    (edit" I don't know if this would contribute to the truck feel or not)

    Is it possible to post a pic of both bikes side by side? (Not required just curious)
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 03-14-2006 at 01:25 PM.
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  7. #7
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    I'm going out to ride the thing again in about an hour and am going to play with the settings a bit more so I'll update then.

    As far as approximating the settings, I mean they're both set up to where the shocks should provide a descent amount of stiffness for the climbs while maintaining a relatively plush feel on the decents. I set the rebound up on the slower side of things, but just a tick or two below the middle. I've also played with the RP3 selector quite a bit during my rides.

    I would do side-by-side pics however, my Stumpy is currently in pieces (thus the reason I have the Flux in the first place) so it would be really difficult to compare them to each other.
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  8. #8
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    Kewl. Enjoy your ride. Hope you work it out. If you get a chance, note your settings (pressure, sag, weight, rebound)

    Cheers.
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  9. #9
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    I found the 04 Triad stumpy that I test rode a fine bike but it didn't light any fires for me (just as the Flux didn't for you). Stick with what you are still enjoying.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CranxOC
    What's the deal here? Is this just the way Turners "feel" (i.e. slow and deliberate) or is there something more here that's throwing me for a loop?
    Are you talking about handling or acceleration? If it's the latter, how do the wheels & tires on the Flux compare to your Stumpy? The Flux should not give up anything to a comparably equipped Specialized when it comes to acceleration. If the wheelsets are in the same league and you don't feel it's accelerating well try increasing the pressure and/or the ProPedal on the RP3.


    If you're talking about how quickly it handles and the sizing is close to what you are used to it might just be a matter of taste. I wouldn't say there is anything "slow" about the handling of my Flux, but I could maybe see "deliberate". Another way of looking at it would be to say the Stumpy is "nervous". Kind of like 29" wheels, but I digress...
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CranxOC
    Both bikes are size "large" and both "cockpits" feel about the same (i.e. I sit about as far from the handlebars on one as I do the other).
    "Feel" is a rather nebulous thing to rely on. I believe Specialized is notorious for having shorter top tubes for the same size bike. What size stem are you using?

    I would play with different stems - keep going shorter until the quickness is where you want it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    "Feel" is a rather nebulous thing to rely on. I believe Specialized is notorious for having shorter top tubes for the same size bike. What size stem are you using?

    I would play with different stems - keep going shorter until the quickness is where you want it.
    TT lengths on the two bike are almost identical with the only difference being the added 10mm stem on the Flux.

    As for "feel," I agree it's somewhat nebulous however, when it comes to high-end mountain bikes, isn't "feel," ultimately, all that really matters?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    Are you talking about handling or acceleration? If it's the latter, how do the wheels & tires on the Flux compare to your Stumpy? The Flux should not give up anything to a comparably equipped Specialized when it comes to acceleration. If the wheelsets are in the same league and you don't feel it's accelerating well try increasing the pressure and/or the ProPedal on the RP3.


    If you're talking about how quickly it handles and the sizing is close to what you are used to it might just be a matter of taste. I wouldn't say there is anything "slow" about the handling of my Flux, but I could maybe see "deliberate". Another way of looking at it would be to say the Stumpy is "nervous". Kind of like 29" wheels, but I digress...
    You're probably pretty close to being right here. I believe the Stumpy is considered somewhat of a "nervous" or "twitchy" bike and, it seems, that I actually really like that aspect of it. Where one person feels as though the bike is "twitchy" I feel as though it's exceptionally responsive.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CranxOC
    TT lengths on the two bike are almost identical with the only difference being the added 10mm stem on the Flux.
    10mm is well within the realm of "almost identical" yet that makes a noticeable difference when you change the stem. Again I would play with different stems and then see how it compares. I doubt you could "feel" a 10mm difference in cockpit size, but I guarantee changing stems by 10 mm each time will change your bikes feel noticeably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CranxOC

    As for "feel," I agree it's somewhat nebulous however, when it comes to high-end mountain bikes, isn't "feel," ultimately, all that really matters?
    Using that circular logic, if the "feel" is different, maybe the setup is, too. You really should measure everything to be sure.

    When I first go my Spot, I found that I had trouble with some small jumps (that's the only type of jump that I do ) when riding the Spot, but no trouble when trying them on my Fuel.

    I had always thought that the Spot was set up more upright than the Fuel..... and if felt that way when I rode, but when I measured to 2 bikes..... I was in a more upright position on the Fuel.

    So, if it feels wrong, there's a good chance that the setup is different than you believe.... OR you just don't like the bike, for whatever reason

  16. #16
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    Cranx may just have a different prefrence, nothing wrong with that...but without specific cockpit (and rider) measurements and suspension setting details it's going to be difficult to determine if it is pref or setup.

    Since the Stumpy is in parts it's also going to be tough to compare unless the orig spec was recorded.
    Annnyway I'd be curious to know the shock sag, pressure, rebound and rider weight. At least with that we can determine if it's a sus setting or a geometry thing.
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 03-14-2006 at 02:38 PM.
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    I like this guy! Very subtle!
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  18. #18
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    Your FSR has a steeper HT angle, a slacker ST angle, shorter chainstays, a shorter wheelbase, a 10mm shorter stem, of course it's going to feel different - probably quicker steering and climbing, but not as smooth on the descents or bigger hits - it's all in the geometry. You like what fits you.
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    specifically

    Anything over a couple mm's is not close when it comes to comparing bike fit, especially when you have ridden a bike as long as you have. With this in mind, you not only have to drop the 10mm difference in stem length but also the 6mm of TT length, their TT being 24Now we can get Pretty Close with a stem that is 15mm shorter than the one on the demo bike.

    But the 2 are not Similar at this time, and you should not start a direct comparison with 2 bikes that are oly set up Pretty Close.

    Seat, it is not the same seat so you are not sitting on it in the same relationship to the cranks as the body will slide fore and aft to get comfy effecting the crank relationship as well as the reach relationship. I suggest you pull the post from the Specialized and put it on the Turner, most mtb posts are 27.2, good chance you can swap them. Of course re-set your seat height to the same # as the Specialized, -/+ even a couple mm's will effect your feel. Even if the frame is in parts, you can measure the seat height on the S bike then set it in the Turner frame to the same height, leather to BB center.

    The big S lists 16.7, Turner is 16.75 for a 1.1mm difference. I think this # is not having an effect on your "feel".

    With 16mm of calculated reach difference and who knows what kinda seat effect it is no wonder there is a big difference in feel. Get the rider fit the Same and then ride it a few times. Yes it will feel different, it aint a Specialized and you might not like it, but at least get the fit the same.

    DT

  20. #20
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    I'm looking forward to what you will have to say when you get back on your Stumpy.

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    I went from a Stumpy to a Flux and there are simply no words to describe how much better a Turner rides and handles.

    Maybe consider the Stumpy a Kia and the Turner a Lexus

  22. #22
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    It's all relative. Since I've been riding my Pack when I go back to my Spot man it feels like a rocket. The handling feels quick.

    I say try a shorter stem and then take the bike down some steep stuff, you know, like the stuff I dragged you down in Santiago Oaks
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirbikesalot
    It's all relative. Since I've been riding my Pack when I go back to my Spot man it feels like a rocket. The handling feels quick.

    I say try a shorter stem and then take the bike down some steep stuff, you know, like the stuff I dragged you down in Santiago Oaks
    LOL! I actually haven't been back down "Waterfall" since I was with you. I'm still nowhere near the technically skilled rider that you are but I'm a lot closer than I was. I clean about 95% of Joplin these days and wouldn't mind hitting Waterfall again the next time I'm up in that area.

    As for the Turner, well, I made a few adjustments to the air pressure (went UP 15psi in the rear and DOWN 10 in the front), dialed the rebound up just a bit on the RP3 and ran it on the stiffest setting on the climb and actually didn't hate the bike.

    I still prefer my Stumpy to the Turner but I'd have no problem riding another one again as a loaner.

    Ultimately I've played with this thing a lot and have come to the conclusion that I just like my bike better. It's "twitchy" (something I now know I prefer), bobs less on the climbs (just the nature of the different suspension designs) and has geometry that's more suited to me.

    I certainly wouldn't turn anyone away from buying a Turner as they're obviously well built and have a loyal following, the Flux just doesn't fit me. One of these days, I do want to give the 5 Spot a try.

    Thanks for all the responses!
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  24. #24
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    If I were a bettin' man, I'd venture to say that if you'd try the next smaller Turner size, you'd see what it's all aboot.....Stumpy's have notoriously tight cockpits, and this is why you're probably feeling like you are driving a stretch limo out on the trail. Same-Same ain't always the Same, in this game....[wow - that was truly bad].

    If you ever get another chance, just for kicks - try out the smaller Flux frame if available....
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    If I were a bettin' man, I'd venture to say that if you'd try the next smaller Turner size, you'd see what it's all aboot.....Stumpy's have notoriously tight cockpits, and this is why you're probably feeling like you are driving a stretch limo out on the trail. Same-Same ain't always the Same, in this game....[wow - that was truly bad].

    If you ever get another chance, just for kicks - try out the smaller Flux frame if available....
    I was originally given a medium frame and it felt like the stem was going to bump me in the junk so that definitely is not the solution. Large is/was the right frame size; I just don't really like the bike...it's not for me.
    There's a fine line between courage and foolishness. Too bad it's not a fence.

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