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  1. #1
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    What's your favorite rear wheel setup?

    My Crossmax is on its fourth freehub body and the cassette is beyond wobbly making the rear shifting problematic.

    I thinking about a 32 spoke DT Swiss 240 hub, with a 819 mavic rim and 14/15 butted spokes, brass nipples on the drive side and alloy nipples on the other side. I'm riding a Burner with Paul's rockers and I weigh a 180,

    I'm also considering a Hadley rear hub, but I don't like the noise. The noise of the King would insufferable. Nothing worse than a noisy poacher!

    Thanks,

    Kane

  2. #2
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    love my 340 on the rfx. nice and quiet, same hub as the 240 w/ a steel axle and freehub body for the drops. im a big fan of the bontrager mustang disc hoops on my burner or a dt 4.1 with dt comps and alloy nips all around. at 180, brass may be overkill. im 15 lbs lighter w/o gear, ride basically the same bike in the az tech and never had a issue.

    i know, its the ft wheel but it was a much better shot.
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  3. #3
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    I like DT 4.1's for a lighter trail rim. If you want a 500g rim similar to the 819, I generally choose DT 5.1's.

    Even as a "freerider" type, I've never had issues with alloy nipples.

  4. #4
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    Hub...take your pick....quick engagement or "noisy."

    The DTs engagment is too slow for my taste but it's a reliable hub.

    I prefer the I-9/King/Hadley variety and groove to the buzzzzzzzzzzzz
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Hub...take your pick....quick engagement or "noisy."

    The DTs engagment is too slow for my taste but it's a reliable hub.

    I prefer the I-9/King/Hadley variety and groove to the buzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Second the Hadley's. Had my rear hub apart and it is a very simple and well build mechanism.

    I have 340's on my spot, and I agree, the engagement is not as quiuck, but they have been bullitproof and easy to service.
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  6. #6
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    Just went from DT340 to King..........

    I just went from the DT340 to Chris King. This was the best upgrade I have ever made.

    No wasted energy, every movement forward on the cranks is adding speed. Hard to explain in words, but the instant engagement is an incredible improvement in the cycling experience and one that I never really knew I was missing.

    I think that the I9s, Hadleys and maybe the Hopes have instant engagement also, but I only know about the Kings. Get out your wallet though...

    bobo

  7. #7
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    Anyone know how many points of engagement the 240s has?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV_XCE
    Anyone know how many points of engagement the 240s has?
    Same as 340's. They have the same internals. I think it's 36.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    Same as 340's. They have the same internals. I think it's 36.
    Actually it's only 18pt. Hope is 24, Hadley & King are 72, I9 is 120.

    Larry
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  10. #10
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    Thanks Larry, That would be a deal breaker for my next build.

    I've seen a hub form True Percision called the Stealth. It reviews out well but I rarely see it mentioned in these forums. Do any of you have any experience with these hubs. They look like exactly what I would want in a hub; instant engagement and quiet.

    http://www.trueprecision.net/c_products_mountain.html

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV_XCE
    Thanks Larry, That would be a deal breaker for my next build.

    I've seen a hub form True Percision called the Stealth. It reviews out well but I rarely see it mentioned in these forums. Do any of you have any experience with these hubs. They look like exactly what I would want in a hub; instant engagement and quiet.

    http://www.trueprecision.net/c_products_mountain.html
    I thought they discontinued those hubs years ago. They were quiet and technically had instant engagement. When they engage they actually flex a bit, but don’t slip, so they feel a bit mushy. They were pretty cool for trials, but they had a lot of drag and some back pedaling issues leading to chain suck. It looks like they have intentions of building a new version sometime in the future.
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  12. #12
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    Seeing as you don’t like the noise of the King or Hadley hubs, our next favorite at Go-ride.com is the Hope Pro2 hubs. They are surprising light, durable, and well priced. Plus they come in a lot of colors if that’s your thing.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ventanarama
    Actually it's only 18pt. Hope is 24, Hadley & King are 72, I9 is 120.

    Larry
    Mountain High Cyclery
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    I guess that's why I'm an eye doctor!


    Edit: upon further review Larry, you need two of these little 18pt thing-a-ma-gigs (see pic). And that adds up to 36. Scoreboard
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  14. #14
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    Noisy hubs have an advantage; the noise alerts bears that you are in the area, chances are you won't surprise them, which might provoke them to attack you. Hopefully, your neighbor, who's land you are poaching, is hard of hearing as well.
    I like my hadleys; this is one of the 108 point hubs that's no longer available. Larry, does this wheel look familiar to you?

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    The gf runs one 240 on an 819 and a 340 on an 819. Good stuff. Engagement points is more of a perk than necessary, obviously. Some will lead you to believe you need 1,440 engagement points.

    In any event, they work and work extremely reliably at that.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    The gf runs one 240 on an 819 and a 340 on an 819. Good stuff. Engagement points is more of a perk than necessary, obviously.
    In the same way that disc brakes are a perk over rim brakes and well tuned suspension is a perk over stock suspension and good tires are a perk over crappy tires and a Turner frame is a perk over a Huffy.
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  17. #17
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    What is it with "noisy" hubs? What's the big deal? It's not like you need earplugs or something.

  18. #18
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    I can take some noise from a hub but perfer a quieter one. I do want better engagement than the LaserDisc Lite hubs I have now. This rear hub failed on me 3 times last year and only has 12 engagement points. I don't turst it anymore. Right now I'm only looking at replacing the rear wheel and leaning towards a new XT hub laced to a 4.2d. Can be had for $140 form Colorado Cyclist and they do a good build. Any of you ridden the new XT yet. 36 points will feel much better that what I have. Only quesiton is durability.
    Last edited by WV_XCE; 05-15-2008 at 01:16 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Noisy hubs have an advantage; the noise alerts bears that you are in the area, chances are you won't surprise them, which might provoke them to attack you. Hopefully, your neighbor, who's land you are poaching, is hard of hearing as well.
    I like my hadleys; this is one of the 108 point hubs that's no longer available. Larry, does this wheel look familiar to you?


    Rene, do you have some sort of "fear" of cable guides? Don't like DT's placement of said cable guides? Or do you prefer to adorn your bike with cable ties??
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  20. #20
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    John, with the SRAM rear derailleur, the braze-on cable housing stop is not lined up at all. That braze-on works great for "shimano I need a big housing loop for lots of friction and contamination potential". Look at the pic again, the poor alignment is obvious.
    At the time DT had this frame made, the braze on was in the right place. I'm merely adapting to the times.
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  21. #21
    mr. wonderful
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ventanarama
    Actually it's only 18pt. Hope is 24, Hadley & King are 72, I9 is 120.

    Larry
    Mountain High Cyclery
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    whoa nelly! let's be a little more clear about this. king is the only hub on the planet with 72 pt engagement, all others are 3. points of engagement is completely different than degrees of rotation between points of engagement. kings use a ring drive which gives 72 points of engagement every 5 degrees of rotation. hadley uses 3 pawls (like every other hub) giving 3 points of engagement every 5 degrees.

    I ride only kings, not only for quick engagement but also for the 72 point engagement, great machining, and complete user servicability.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbag
    whoa nelly! let's be a little more clear about this. king is the only hub on the planet with 72 pt engagement, all others are 3. points of engagement is completely different than degrees of rotation between points of engagement. kings use a ring drive which gives 72 points of engagement every 5 degrees of rotation. hadley uses 3 pawls (like every other hub) giving 3 points of engagement every 5 degrees.

    I ride only kings, not only for quick engagement but also for the 72 point engagement, great machining, and complete user servicability.
    I hear ya DB. My Hadley actually has four pawls. I've seen a pic of the three pawl version. I think Larry is referring to the number of postions the pawls can engage at. They don't engage all simultaniously. Are you saying the King hubs engage all at the same time?

    But the DT swiss hub has 18 points of engagement as those two surfaces in my pic are in apposition with eachother.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    John, with the SRAM rear derailleur, the braze-on cable housing stop is not lined up at all. That braze-on works great for "shimano I need a big housing loop for lots of friction and contamination potential". Look at the pic again, the poor alignment is obvious.
    At the time DT had this frame made, the braze on was in the right place. I'm merely adapting to the times.
    I don't know what your are talking about. I've got no awkward bends
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel

    I prefer the I-9/King/Hadley variety and groove to the buzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Noisy hubs are happy hubs. Love my Hopes (not as nice as King or Hadley) and looking forward to my Hadleys (hint hint Larry )
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  25. #25
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    26"..
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  26. #26
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    Hadley 36pt on 721 dbl butted -----> done
    All about the ride

  27. #27
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    The difference between the 72pt and 108pt Hadley's is related to the number of pawls. Both use the same hub shell with 36 "points" (teeth?) machined in. The 72pt hubs have four pawls, though only two engage simultaneously. While two pawls are engaged, the other two sit between teeth. The end result is you get 72 engagement points. The 108pt Hadley's had only three pawls, with only one engaging at a time and the other two offset by varying degrees.

    I had a 108pt Hadley for two years until it self-destructed, as they apparently all eventually do, and Hadley replaced the internals that "downgraded" it to 72pt.

    And King hubs do engage all the points at the same time ... similar idea to DT and the star drive, just a lot more points.

    I have Hadley's on my 6-Pack and Flux and 240's (singlespeed and multispeed wheels) on a Waltworks 29er hardtail. I like them both. After getting the 240's for the Waltworks, I bought a set to lace into the Flux's 819 hoops, but a year and ~25lbs later, I'm still using the Hadley's because I just assumed they were burlier. Given the true number of simultaneous engagements though, maybe the 240's are better.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    I hear ya DB. My Hadley actually has four pawls. I've seen a pic of the three pawl version. I think Larry is referring to the number of postions the pawls can engage at. They don't engage all simultaniously. Are you saying the King hubs engage all at the same time?

    But the DT swiss hub has 18 points of engagement as those two surfaces in my pic are in apposition with eachother.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    I hear ya DB. My Hadley actually has four pawls. I've seen a pic of the three pawl version. I think Larry is referring to the number of postions the pawls can engage at. They don't engage all simultaniously. Are you saying the King hubs engage all at the same time?

    But the DT swiss hub has 18 points of engagement as those two surfaces in my pic are in apposition with eachother.
    In that sense, the DT Star Ratchets offer 18 simultaneous contact points on their transverse faces, and the rings are splined into the hubshell. I never counted the number of splines, but it's quite a few. Perhaps in the twenties.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbag
    whoa nelly! let's be a little more clear about this. king is the only hub on the planet with 72 pt engagement, all others are 3. points of engagement is completely different than degrees of rotation between points of engagement. kings use a ring drive which gives 72 points of engagement every 5 degrees of rotation. hadley uses 3 pawls (like every other hub) giving 3 points of engagement every 5 degrees.

    I ride only kings, not only for quick engagement but also for the 72 point engagement, great machining, and complete user servicability.

    If you are going to nit-pick/bash stuff that does not matter, at least get your facts correct (they are not).

    Should I bring up the excess friction in Kings, or the ever-loosening design, or the 'special' cassette carrier that requires speciffic cassettes and a king lock nut (add $20)...or the need for the HD axle (more $$) for anything but XC......

  30. #30
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    I really like the current model XTR wheelset as a race and lightweight trail wheel but they won't suit everyone.

    I have a soft spot for this old rear wheel I have too - M900 XTR hub with 117 Ceramic rim
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherbrian
    The difference between the 72pt and 108pt Hadley's is related to the number of pawls. Both use the same hub shell with 36 "points" (teeth?) machined in. The 72pt hubs have four pawls, though only two engage simultaneously. While two pawls are engaged, the other two sit between teeth. The end result is you get 72 engagement points. The 108pt Hadley's had only three pawls, with only one engaging at a time and the other two offset by varying degrees.

    I had a 108pt Hadley for two years until it self-destructed, as they apparently all eventually do, and Hadley replaced the internals that "downgraded" it to 72pt.

    And King hubs do engage all the points at the same time ... similar idea to DT and the star drive, just a lot more points.

    I have Hadley's on my 6-Pack and Flux and 240's (singlespeed and multispeed wheels) on a Waltworks 29er hardtail. I like them both. After getting the 240's for the Waltworks, I bought a set to lace into the Flux's 819 hoops, but a year and ~25lbs later, I'm still using the Hadley's because I just assumed they were burlier. Given the true number of simultaneous engagements though, maybe the 240's are better.

    I have the hadley 72pt on my spot and the 340's on my RFX. I notice no difference in riding performance of the two bikes, other than one is quieter.

    The DT's I've had for years, and I like how easy they are to service. But the Hadleys are not too difficult either, although according to Hadley, I need to service them more than I have.
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  32. #32
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    holy crap td! with the bag even!
    No, I'm NOT back!

  33. #33
    mr. wonderful
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    Quote Originally Posted by davep
    If you are going to nit-pick/bash stuff that does not matter, at least get your facts correct (they are not).

    Should I bring up the excess friction in Kings, or the ever-loosening design, or the 'special' cassette carrier that requires speciffic cassettes and a king lock nut (add $20)...or the need for the HD axle (more $$) for anything but XC......
    Right, I stand corrected---3 or 4 pawls for 1 or 2 points of engagement

    I'm not bashing anything, I'm just pointing out real differences. Ride what works for you and, most importantly, have fun

  34. #34
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    yeah! dont be a...... richard..... oh, nevermind.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  35. #35
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    Got Hadley on my Spot, MTBR Reviewers rated it more than King for heavier riders. I fall into that category. Feels bomb proof. Used Hope for years with no problems. Got a set of King hubs to build into some light XC wheels for the Flux.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by davep

    Should I bring up the... ever-loosening design,...or the need for the HD axle (more $$) for anything but XC......
    Actually, the HD axle is now standard on the regular ISO rear hub. Also, the one piece axle has a different tensioning system, which people seem to have a lot fewer problems with.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    holy crap td! with the bag even!
    Yep I always wanted one when they were new, and finding one with its wheel bag was a real bonus.
    More bikes than you can point a broken spoke at...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    The gf runs one 240 on an 819 and a 340 on an 819. Good stuff. Engagement points is more of a perk than necessary, obviously. Some will lead you to believe you need 1,440 engagement points.

    In any event, they work and work extremely reliably at that.
    I have Kings on 5 Pack and 340's on my 7 Pack. The only time I miss the 72 engagement points of the King is on technical climbs - we have lots of technical climbs around here.

  39. #39
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    Ride what you got

    On my Turner I have a Hugi 240 with a Mavic UST. Good ride. On my Kona 29er I have XT hubs laced to Salsa rims. Good ride. I know, lowly XT, how embarrasing. The elitists types certainly would not approve of such a set up. I had King's for years; eventually they blew up. Oh, no, not that. I like Hugi and Shimano because they are quiet. They keep my mental flow intact and allow me to just enjoy the ride.

    Jaybo

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by davep
    If you are going to nit-pick/bash stuff that does not matter, at least get your facts correct (they are not).

    Should I bring up the excess friction in Kings, or the ever-loosening design, or the 'special' cassette carrier that requires speciffic cassettes and a king lock nut (add $20)...or the need for the HD axle (more $$) for anything but XC......
    For the last few years King has been selling all rear hubs with the HD axle. Why, to solve the loosening issue that people were complaining about. As for the loosening issues with the old design, 90% of the issues were torque related. Most users did not properly torque the 5mm correctly, therefore they would loosen. Never had a problem with mine.

    Special cassette carrier? King lock nut? Specific cassette? Could you please explain further? First I've heard of it. I have only used Kings for the last 6 years (3 different sets), and I guess I must be one lucky bastard as I have always ended up with the "special" XT Chris King edition cassette.

    Enough with the drag already. My hubs spin freely. I suspect there is more drag created by the contact of your tires to the ground, or the areodynamics of your body. Or god forbid, user error during bearing tension adjustments.

    I guess I will never understand the King haters. They always have something to complain about. All I know is I have never missed a ride, or had a ride cut short due to a hub issue. This is true for the other 8 pairs of Kings I know of in our little group.

    Go out and ride already
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  41. #41
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    I blew mine up

    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    For the last few years King has been selling all rear hubs with the HD axle. Why, to solve the loosening issue that people were complaining about. As for the loosening issues with the old design, 90% of the issues were torque related. Most users did not properly torque the 5mm correctly, therefore they would loosen. Never had a problem with mine.

    Special cassette carrier? King lock nut? Specific cassette? Could you please explain further? First I've heard of it. I have only used Kings for the last 6 years (3 different sets), and I guess I must be one lucky bastard as I have always ended up with the "special" XT Chris King edition cassette.

    Enough with the drag already. My hubs spin freely. I suspect there is more drag created by the contact of your tires to the ground, or the areodynamics of your body. Or god forbid, user error during bearing tension adjustments.

    I guess I will never understand the King haters. They always have something to complain about. All I know is I have never missed a ride, or had a ride cut short due to a hub issue. This is true for the other 8 pairs of Kings I know of in our little group.

    Go out and ride already
    But, years ago King had alloy gears and they sometimes gave up the ghost. I walked almost 10 miles because of that hub. Sheesh! King fixed the hub for free.

    Jaybo

  42. #42
    mr. wonderful
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    But, years ago King had alloy gears and they sometimes gave up the ghost. I walked almost 10 miles because of that hub. Sheesh! King fixed the hub for free.

    Jaybo
    blew up? two questions-
    what, precisely, does this mean?
    how often did you service it?

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