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  1. #1
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    New question here. Whats up with this?

    OK. I'm a newb, and I apologize .

    I've tried about a dozen searches and I keep getting a fatal error message about memory size.

    So, can someone either summarize, or direct me to a thread that explains this ICT/Ellsworth/Horst Link/TNT/Turner controversy?

    I've looked around in here and without the search function working for me I haven't been able to get a very clear picture of what the deal is.

    Sorry if this post pours salt in any old wounds, but my curiousity has been stimulated by the bits and pieces of the story I have been able to dig out.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twister

    So, can someone either summarize, or direct me to a thread that explains this ICT/Ellsworth/Horst Link/TNT/Turner controversy?

    Nope.

  3. #3
    PSI
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    I want that one
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    you just stepped into the homer-den... no matter. go to the top of the forum or to TNT Reviews...speculation free. for starters

  4. #4
    grumpy northerner
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    I don't think there's any one single thread that summarises everything neatly for you.

    This was the first thread on the subject that I saw. It was started the same day the TNT blurb was put up on turnerbikes.com, which itself was a day or two after a thread on the new Turner Highline where people noticed it didn't have a Horst link:
    Tnt???

    Another interesting thread is one featuring a few replies by turnerover, aka Casey, who used to work at Turner:
    Getting less over the years
    I haven't fallen off, I'm just having a rest.

  5. #5
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    Thanks, PSI and Wils. I'm learning lots.

    I take it that to be a "homer" is not good. What IS a homer?

  6. #6
    The Ancient One
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    Here's the longest and most technical thread on the subject:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/turner/turner-horst-vs-turner-kona-long-geeky-132386.html#post1213765
    By the end of the discussion I believed there was less difference between the two designs than I did at the beginning. But I still believe there is a significant difference, mostly regarding traction, in favor of the HL.

    Andy N. found the difference in climbing a particular hill:

    My TNT experience

    In general I think the difference would show up as shorter times and less fatigue from long, rough rides.
    "Don't criticize what you can't understand."

  7. #7
    Brass Nipples!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twister
    Thanks, PSI and Wils. I'm learning lots.

    I take it that to be a "homer" is not good. What IS a homer?
    Initially intended to be an insult, lovers of all things Turner now call ourselves Homers. It's a good thing, actually.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  8. #8
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    Smile

    Thanks Bob and Steve.

    As I've read more threads, I see that Homer can be used either way, but mostly it seems to be a term of endearment in the later threads as you pointed out BobtW.

    The threads you guys pointed out are great. I started out voyeristically wanting to learn about a big argument, but I ended up learning tons of good stuff about rear suspension.

    Lots of stuff that seemed complicated and arcane before now makes perfect sense. The links really helped me separate the wheat from the chaff. It's good to be able to get quality information that isn't all marketing department hype!

  9. #9
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    To be frank with you. You are not really going to get more knowledge from reading the old posts. You might end up getting more confused after reading them. They are based more on opinion rather than fact. These posts refelct peoples' anger. Only few who really bought the new rokcers tried them out and gave their verdict. Its in the sticky. I would say by reading them you would get a more clear picture.
    .

  10. #10
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    I read the sticky first.

    I know the posts are largely opinion, but what isn't? I think that a lot of a particular persons impression of how a design works is subjective, based on a combination of preconcieved notions, set-up, and how the preceding interact with the riders style and the terrain being ridden.

    That said, I think that by reading lots of "opinions", weighing them by prevalence and apparent value, and recognizing that the truth is most likely somewhere between the extremes, valuable information can be gleaned from forums like this.

    Plus, there's a lot of just basic information about various systems and set-ups in there if you read critically.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobflyer
    To be frank with you. You are not really going to get more knowledge from reading the old posts. You might end up getting more confused after reading them. They are based more on opinion rather than fact. These posts refelct peoples' anger. Only few who really bought the new rokcers tried them out and gave their verdict. Its in the sticky. I would say by reading them you would get a more clear picture.
    .
    There are no new rockers involved with this.

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