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  1. #1
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    What happened to this forum?

    Have I been sleeping? The Turner forum once was one of the more active on this site. I just dropped in after a long hiatus and noticed very few active threads with most threads on the front page not having activity for a year or more. Is Turner still relevant in the market? All I've known of is high standards with a clique of diehard Turner fans. What's up?
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  2. #2
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    Its winter and after the RFX i guess we're all satisfied. After i got mine done i rarely visit bike sites, because as it stands now.. there is no viable upgrade potential for me anymore. Nothing left to do but ride

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    most threads on the front page not having activity for a year or more.
    The oldest one on the first page has only been there 3 weeks without a reply.

    Are you skimming whole sub-forums now?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    The oldest one on the first page has only been there 3 weeks without a reply.

    Are you skimming whole sub-forums now?
    Might depend on your settings. When I scroll down I see threads that have no activity since August.

    To answer the original question I think part of it comes down to the market moving and Turner not moving quickly enough to stay in front of it. It is a small company with limited resources and the rapid movement to longer/lower/slacker is not their traditional market. Their resistance to 67 HA's on XC bikes (hyperbole I know) meant the market moved past them. They also avoided carbon for too long. Intense needed a major cash infusion to catch up and Turner has not seen that level of investment.

  5. #5
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    Turner riders are out riding their bikes.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Might depend on your settings. When I scroll down I see threads that have no activity since August.
    I'm required to give him a hard time whenever possible.

  7. #7
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    The Turner forum ain't what it used to be a few years back. I don't think it has anything to do with the bikes. I still check it every day even though I no longer own one. I had 4 and just love the bikes and the company.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  8. #8
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    "What happened to this forum?"

    Ask me again in a few months


    Lets see those pow shots!!! Post em up!!!

  9. #9
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    Still riding my old school Flux 27.5 in the lava fields here in Hawaii. Not much new I guess to report. Wanted to get the new carbon frameset but it's priced out of my reach now.........

    What happened to this forum?-17022193_10154154779397714_3841160298926711842_n.jpg

  10. #10
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    I rode my RFX in Sedona on Sunday and today it was 20" of fresh on the local hill.

    Wifey rides an HD3 and does not frequent the Turner forum. That's ok by me.

    What happened to this forum?-7-meadows_1.jpg
    "Fart in a paper bag, after eating the #17 plate from filibertos. STRAVA!" M77Ranger.

  11. #11
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    The Turner forum is dead because FoShizzle, Bikezilla, squeak and others are off doing something else..........

  12. #12
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    My turner doesn't work quite so well here right now:

    What happened to this forum?-01fe6493892f4205f23c8a825dc4ea46a811532f13.jpgWhat happened to this forum?-g0205365s.jpg
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Might depend on your settings. When I scroll down I see threads that have no activity since August.

    To answer the original question I think part of it comes down to the market moving and Turner not moving quickly enough to stay in front of it. It is a small company with limited resources and the rapid movement to longer/lower/slacker is not their traditional market. Their resistance to 67 HA's on XC bikes (hyperbole I know) meant the market moved past them. They also avoided carbon for too long. Intense needed a major cash infusion to catch up and Turner has not seen that level of investment.
    Agree. Turner is at a crossroads. One could lead them back to splendid glory.....the other a death spiral. I like the splendid glory route.

  14. #14
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    I fail to see the connection between a slow forum and Turner sales.
    "Fart in a paper bag, after eating the #17 plate from filibertos. STRAVA!" M77Ranger.

  15. #15
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    Powder Season Here!

    What happened to this forum?-img_1886-600x800-.jpg

    Lots of snow this season here in Central Oregon. Will be a while before we're able to get out and ride.

    That said I'm pretty sure Dave's not sitting around with nothing to do.
    The guy's always working to push his bikes forward.
    Can't wait to see his next overhaul!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Might depend on your settings. When I scroll down I see threads that have no activity since August.

    To answer the original question I think part of it comes down to the market moving and Turner not moving quickly enough to stay in front of it. It is a small company with limited resources and the rapid movement to longer/lower/slacker is not their traditional market. Their resistance to 67 HA's on XC bikes (hyperbole I know) meant the market moved past them. They also avoided carbon for too long. Intense needed a major cash infusion to catch up and Turner has not seen that level of investment.
    Well said. You can't resist change, charge the same amounts and expect same level of interest. People will eventually look to other brands that offer latest standards and new tech. Especially for ones that change bikes every 1-2 years. Different story for diehards that keep riding same rig for a decade. They might keep coming back but don't hold your breath. And compared to 5 yrs ago there is much greater competition in bike market which presents lot more options to the consumer. I ve owned 3 turners (flux, sultan, Czar )great bikes and have followed the brand but I get it that Turner fan base is slowly dissipating. I really think Turner wants to keep up but it's a tough market with a very slippery slope - one slip and company can go under quickly.

    Ps make the Czar longer and w steeper seat tube.


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  17. #17
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    It died when Smokey left............

  18. #18
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    tscheezy left too. I think the competition really picked up and Turner was a bit slow to adjust. Pivot, Ibis, and a couple of newcomers really started to crank out new bikes, while well-funded bigger companies like Intense, Santa Cruz, Yeti, and others, did the same in quick succession and with several models. I do think Turner sales are down, but being my favorite company, that makes me a bit sad. Looking forward to the new Sultan...

  19. #19
    roots, rocks, rhythm
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    I have really noticed that in the last 10 years the bike industry really changed.
    I still think that Turner produces a great product and is still relevant.
    I don't think that Turner has slowed down as much as everyone else has caught up to what was consider a boutique bike brand. Throw in other names also!

    10 years a go it was unheard of to see bikes just sitting there for $7000.00 or up!
    Now you see in some stores at least 2 or 3 like that.
    And on top of that people or should I say riders with not a lot of experience don't even blink twice spending $4000.00 for their first bike now a days.

    I would say there are a lot more players out putting out a lot of bikes, a lot more riders getting into riding, consumers flush with cash $$$ (I wish I had that problem.....) just to name a few.........

    I am kind of weird.......I ride because I love to ride and I love riding a awesome, dependable, very cool bike with cool sexy parts........ that is what makes me happy.
    I don't care what anyone else thinks.


    There is my 2 cents.....
    97' Brodie Expresso
    00' Turner RFX
    08' Turner RFX
    13' Surly Troll
    15' Surly ICT

  20. #20
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    Just my two cents. There are a lot more subforums now. In the old days, the Turner forum tended to be a clearinghouse for questions that now go other places (brakes, shock and fork tuning, suspension design). As others point out, Turner also doesn't put out a new bike each week. Each bike is segmented, so you don't get the questions of which bike in an 8 model lineup separated by 10mm increments to purchase. Finally, I don't think the majority of Turner riders are looking for fad of the month, rather a good long term purchase that rides well.

    New riders do show up, for example my son went from a Santa Cruz to a 5 Spot. When he outgrew the Spot, I put him on a Canfield Balance. A month later he was on a Burner. He keeps asking me when the new DHR is coming to replace his YT tues. A friend went through several frames until I built him a Burner: that was 2 years ago and he has no urge to upgrade the frame.


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    Riding slowly since 1977.

  21. #21
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    What happened to this forum?

    Is there still such thing as boutique brands? seems all have gone mainstream and are more inline with the big 3 or they've folded. A local shop near me that once was known for only carrying the cool boutique names that no other shop carried including Turner have seemingly moved in the opposite direction and have become a Trek dealer and don't see all too many boutique bikes in there no more, funny cause yrs ago if you brought a Trek in there you'd feel the negative vibes for riding a Trek but now they are selling them. There's even a local shop that morphed into a Giant store- selling only Giant bikes and products.


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  22. #22
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    I've owned 4 Turners in my lifetime and at one time converted 2 friends to homers. Fast forward to 2017 and none of us continue to ride Turners. Still watch the forum and want to see what Turner delivers next, but for now I find the brand mostly irrelevant. One thing I have learned, being a homer or dedicated to any one brand gets you nothing. I ride what works for me and could care less about the brand. Times have changed and based on DT's offerings I've moved on.


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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chowdapilot View Post
    I've owned 4 Turners in my lifetime and at one time converted 2 friends to homers. Fast forward to 2017 and none of us continue to ride Turners. Still watch the forum and want to see what Turner delivers next, but for now I find the brand mostly irrelevant. One thing I have learned, being a homer or dedicated to any one brand gets you nothing. I ride what works for me and could care less about the brand. Times have changed and based on DT's offerings I've moved on.


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    What exactly is a Homer anyways? Context tells me it's simply a Turner owner, and a friend has said that Homers are about as smart as Homer Simpson, but something tells me he made that up.

  24. #24
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    Lots of good points already made but my 2 cents. I've been following the forum for a long time and have owned 4 Turners and got my wife and two brothers on them. The forum traffic seemed like it tapered off when some of the original homers moved on and there wasn't as much swapping of rockers/rear triangles/shortshocking/etc. when DT moved to dw link. I'm currently on a V4 RFX but I've had to work really hard to make it work for me. Coincidentally, a lot of the swapping was to try to get more modern geometry out of the HL and TNT frames. In my opinion, Turner has always had conservative geometry. I think other manufacturers have caught up and surpassed Turner in some regards, especially geometry. Trails have changed (at least in my area), riding styles and preferences have changed and the newer bike designs have reflected this. I can't tell if DT is catering to an older demographic, hedging his bets, or just being plain stubborn!

  25. #25
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    Funny, but I came here to see if this forum was as dead as it was, last time I checked.

    I used to post here a lot and owned two HL Turners, back in 04'.
    Last edited by Steve71; 03-02-2017 at 11:13 AM.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  26. #26
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    I think forums in general as a platform have slowed down. Facebook, Instagram, etc have put a dent in it. I see the same thing on the car forums I go to. Which is a shame because the level of detail and discussion you get on a forum is superior to the typical pretty pictures and limited info you can get on other forms of media. I have fought it for years but may have to sign up for Facebook because it's the only way to stay connected and up to date for some of my other hobbies.

    I haven't posted here much because I'm really satisfied with my set up. I'm riding a Turner Burner and it really checks all of the boxes for me right now. It's set up great for my kind of riding and I'm not shopping for a new bike. When it comes time to replace I'll probably be more active to research things but for now other than changing tires I'm good. Maybe it has something to do with getting older too and having other priorities. I'm not after the tweak of the week, I don't want to argue/discuss suspension linkages/bearings/geometry/materials anymore, I just wanna ride. Turner makes excellent bikes, without all of the marketing BS you get from other brands. When I buy a Turner I know the details have been sorted out and it will provide years of great performance.

  27. #27
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    all of your moms happened, that what - there is little time and no longer a need to e-masturbate here with all you douchebagz

  28. #28
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
    tscheezy left too. I think the competition really picked up and Turner was a bit slow to adjust. Pivot, Ibis, and a couple of newcomers really started to crank out new bikes, while well-funded bigger companies like Intense, Santa Cruz, Yeti, and others, did the same in quick succession and with several models. I do think Turner sales are down, but being my favorite company, that makes me a bit sad. Looking forward to the new Sultan...
    thank you for your in depth market analysis. you must have an MBA

  29. #29
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle View Post
    thank you for your in depth market analysis. you must have an MBA
    I used to have a Mountain Bike Action
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  30. #30
    Dream it, Do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    A friend went through several frames until I built him a Burner: that was 2 years ago and he has no urge to upgrade the frame.
    I like that. A Turner is the bike you get when you decide to get over bike geek anxiety & just decide to GO RIDE.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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  31. #31
    Dream it, Do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyjr View Post
    Is there still such thing as boutique brands? seems all have gone mainstream and are more inline with the big 3 or they've folded. A local shop near me that once was known for only carrying the cool boutique names that no other shop carried including Turner have seemingly moved in the opposite direction and have become a Trek dealer and don't see all too many boutique bikes in there no more, funny cause yrs ago if you brought a Trek in there you'd feel the negative vibes for riding a Trek but now they are selling them. There's even a local shop that morphed into a Giant store- selling only Giant bikes and products.


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    What's happened for brick-and-mortar stores is that e-commerce has taken away a lot of their high-margin sales of accessories and parts which in turn reduces the amount of cash flow that can work with. The big boys of the independent bike dealer world (Specialized, Trek, Giant & Cannondale) can afford to provide a dealer with 6 month terms for repayment on bike inventory purchased pre-season. The boutique brands can't do so and thus lose out on floor space. Many "dealers" of boutique brands are essentially order takers for those brands and don't carry much if anything from those brands.

    I believe that riders, especially serious riders, do want to buy the boutique brands. The challenge is finding a financially viable business model to get those brands in front of riders. From what I see, doing so in a brick and mortar setting is quite difficult given the current market situation. For us, we're highly focused on the bike demo as key part of our retail value proposition to show the "why to buys" of Turner bikes to prospective customers. Taking this route also has meant that we have chosen to forego the expensive brick-and-mortar storefront as I don't believe that adds real value to the customer shopping process in a world when everything a buyer might want to see or learn about is on the Web.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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  32. #32
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    Who is a "boutique" brand these days? What does it mean with carbon making manufacturing go offshore?
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  33. #33
    Dream it, Do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefmagic View Post
    Trails have changed (at least in my area), riding styles and preferences have changed and the newer bike designs have reflected this. I can't tell if DT is catering to an older demographic, hedging his bets, or just being plain stubborn!
    There is a lot of discussion of specs on the Web, but I feel that a lot of that is not based on actual ride experience. Turner's geometry may seem not up to date with certain trends esp. super long, low & slack, but I've found that Turner bikes actually work better than many other "modern" geometry bikes for everyday trail riding.

    For instance, enduro race replica bikes (of which the Yeti SB-6, Pivot Mach 6, DeVinci Spartan come to mind for me) feel super stable going downhill but are pretty unresponsive for other riding. In contrast, the RFX, to me, has a better balance of climbing and descending ability along with more nimbleness for everyday trail riding. The long, low and slack enduro geometry bikes require much higher speeds to come to life. They need to be ridden over the front to get the front tire to bite whereas I've found that Turner bikes have geometry that is more intuitive to use for most riding situations.

    I think that doing a demo ride for any high end bike is essential and this is an opportunity for Turner Bikes to demonstrate ride & handling beyond specs & angles.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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  34. #34
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    ......because time only moves forward, and nothing stays the same.

    Except Foshizzle. He will always be a douchebag,
    ****

  35. #35
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    I did not realize that Fo visited this place, since he doesn't actually ride and is a bit of a strange individual.

    Fo, I just spoke to Chad and even he has forgotten who you are. Loser.

  36. #36
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    I rode with Zilla not too long ago. He was on his 5 Spot. My son has a 5 Spot too. I do think there's plenty of solid choices these days away from the big box brands. Whereas when I owned all my Turners there were fewer great bikes out there. DT has to be one of the most genuine and nicest guys out there I wish him nothing but success. I hope he can get a broader spectrum of bikes to market. Remember when he had from nitrous to dhr?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    There is a lot of discussion of specs on the Web, but I feel that a lot of that is not based on actual ride experience. Turner's geometry may seem not up to date with certain trends esp. super long, low & slack, but I've found that Turner bikes actually work better than many other "modern" geometry bikes for everyday trail riding.

    For instance, enduro race replica bikes (of which the Yeti SB-6, Pivot Mach 6, DeVinci Spartan come to mind for me) feel super stable going downhill but are pretty unresponsive for other riding. In contrast, the RFX, to me, has a better balance of climbing and descending ability along with more nimbleness for everyday trail riding. The long, low and slack enduro geometry bikes require much higher speeds to come to life. They need to be ridden over the front to get the front tire to bite whereas I've found that Turner bikes have geometry that is more intuitive to use for most riding situations.

    I think that doing a demo ride for any high end bike is essential and this is an opportunity for Turner Bikes to demonstrate ride & handling beyond specs & angles.
    Yeah, I hear you and basically agree with your assessment about the RFX. It is great for everyday trail riding. I guess it comes down to what you want out of a 160mm bike. For everyday trail riding I prefer a 130mm-140mm frame. For 160 I prefer something a little more aggressive that exists for higher speeds. I also agree that numbers/specs don't tell the whole story, that was one reason why I bought the RFX without being able to test ride one. I had my reservations about the numbers but took the plunge anyway with that in mind. It's all good though. I realize it's my personal preference and for others it will absolutely hit the bullseye for them. I still dream about a RFX with the Warden's geometry.

  38. #38
    It's carbon dontcha know.
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    Still check in fairly frequently, but also still on my Burner which is a few months past it's 4th birthday now and my DHR is 5 1/2ish
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
    I did not realize that Fo visited this place, since he doesn't actually ride and is a bit of a strange individual.

    Fo, I just spoke to Chad and even he has forgotten who you are. Loser.

    FoShithead in person
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What happened to this forum?-erikmammoth1.jpg  


  40. #40
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    Turner bikes used to be the hot ticket especially when the 5 Spot came out, now there are soooo many great options not so much anymore. I agree with others tho that his bikes are still top notch and it's nice to see him not pushing new school enduro geometry that sucks on the trail just to sell more bikes. I would of bought another Sultan but wanted carbon and went with a Primer 29

  41. #41
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    So far all posts have been very informative.

    What happened to this forum?-img_9809.jpg
    What happened to this forum?-img_9805.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  42. #42
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    There was not much that could compare to the first came out back in ought 3. My 16 Knolly Endorphin reminds me a lot of that old Spot. A little roomier, slacker, and better suspension components, but a similar feel, at least to me. I sold it last year, sniff.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tickle View Post
    FoShithead in person
    Good to see Fo got his court ordered ankle bracelet removed.

  44. #44
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    I like the guy laughing at him in the background

  45. #45
    Never enough time to ride
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    I still check in from time to time. Popped around to a few different frames since the Sultan, and am actually currently riding an Advocate Hayduke. Had a Salsa Horsethief which was a fantastic riding bike, but wasn't super thrilled with ultra short rear end, gave up some downhill stability that the Sultan had.

    Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I'll look for a used Sultan!

    happy trails...

    Squish
    Get out and ride!

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tickle View Post
    I like the guy laughing at him in the background
    He is laughing with the photographer and not at the soppy tart with women bike!

    Anyway, what's up with the Sultan?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Have I been sleeping? The Turner forum once was one of the more active on this site. I just dropped in after a long hiatus and noticed very few active threads with most threads on the front page not having activity for a year or more. Is Turner still relevant in the market? All I've known of is high standards with a clique of diehard Turner fans. What's up?
    Funny, this is exactly what I was thinking before I went to the site now.
    I have a very large dose of respect for Dave, the crew there (always gotten excellent customer service and friendly chat), and the whole Turner legacy - how it started, developed, the history of the bikes and brand. I've owned two - a 2005 HL Spot - I bought the frame at The Path and built it up from parts I took from an Enduro, and again a 2015 DW Spot that was a demo in great shape I bought direct from Turner.
    Oddly, I felt more technically capable on the old HL, even though it has steeper angles, than I did on the DW, but not surprisingly, the DW pedaled incredibly well.

    I got into the sport in 1998, when I lived in SoCal and frequented SuperGo, and learned about brands, what was desirable and as for bikes back then, Turner and Ellsworth were top "boutique" brands. Turner 5 Spot or Ellsworth Truth.

    The new carbon RFX, Flux, and Czar are really nice bikes - but it sounds like the geo are dated on the Flux and Czar - according to some of you. My most recent bike purchase was last year - a Transition Scout, after test riding several from demos here, including Pivot and RM. The Scout suspension just felt incredible, and the geo is good. I looked at the Flux as well but couldn't test one unless make it to Outerbike. It's aluminum, and while I would have liked carbon, a buddy of mine who is essentially a pro level rider said if I get a nice carbon wheel set built up, it will "make me never regret not getting a carbon frame". Along with replacement of components with lighter, carbon one's as they were out (I ride the shit out of my bikes and components, and keep things serviced, but I don't have budget to replace things just for the sake of bling, or going lighter, when components are working just fine).

    One of the things Turner built themselves and marketed themselves on was differentiation and lasting quality - including those bushings with press fit, and then improved, threaded grease ports. I really liked that. and USA designed and built frames. I didn't ever notice any extra "stiction" myself, and I don't think I had to change them in my DW. A pivot did loosen up on my older 5 Spot once, on Holy Jim. Mo big deal. I was "temporarily" back in SoCal then, and The Path fixed that and it didn't loosen again.

    I think the brand could come back with modern designs, but they would probably need big advertising and sponsorship budget to do it, like Pivot did. Or alternately, maybe they could design modern, *****en bikes that can't be ignored, leverage the Turner brand (without the bearings vs. bushings thing which is old now and not even talked about anymore) - and build up their direct sales model, like Fezzari. I think it's too expensive to keep prices competitive and built in the USA. I'm not sure what's built here - is Ellsworth and Intense built here?
    The handmades are of course - Lynskey, Strong, etc. but we're talking a different market segment.
    How do you reinvent yourself and your brand when it was built on USA made, bushings vs. bearings, etc.. and that's done now?

    The "formula" for the modern "*****en" bike is pretty much set now anyway right? I guess Transition bucks the trend a bit by going with a modified Horst Link instead of something "DW Like" - but it felt awesome looked like it was made well, looked good, and there's a pretty strong Transition following that started up here, so I bought one. I probably wouldn't have bought one prior to the "Giddyup" suspension though.

    And yeah, if I have budget in future to do so and I like the bikes, I would definitely come back to Turner if they're around and have the offerings. If not, they had a good run and are legendary in their own way - like Schwinn was and GT was. I'll always respect them.
    Sound of Tires on Dirt: Sole Music
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  48. #48
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    The turner forum is now nothing but people selling turners.
    Last edited by Vespasianus; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:14 PM.
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  49. #49
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    But is that so that they can buy new ones ?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    The turner thread is now nothing but people selling turners.
    Did you mean forum and not thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

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