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  1. #1
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    What happened to this forum?

    Have I been sleeping? The Turner forum once was one of the more active on this site. I just dropped in after a long hiatus and noticed very few active threads with most threads on the front page not having activity for a year or more. Is Turner still relevant in the market? All I've known of is high standards with a clique of diehard Turner fans. What's up?
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  2. #2
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    Its winter and after the RFX i guess we're all satisfied. After i got mine done i rarely visit bike sites, because as it stands now.. there is no viable upgrade potential for me anymore. Nothing left to do but ride

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    most threads on the front page not having activity for a year or more.
    The oldest one on the first page has only been there 3 weeks without a reply.

    Are you skimming whole sub-forums now?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    The oldest one on the first page has only been there 3 weeks without a reply.

    Are you skimming whole sub-forums now?
    Might depend on your settings. When I scroll down I see threads that have no activity since August.

    To answer the original question I think part of it comes down to the market moving and Turner not moving quickly enough to stay in front of it. It is a small company with limited resources and the rapid movement to longer/lower/slacker is not their traditional market. Their resistance to 67 HA's on XC bikes (hyperbole I know) meant the market moved past them. They also avoided carbon for too long. Intense needed a major cash infusion to catch up and Turner has not seen that level of investment.

  5. #5
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    Turner riders are out riding their bikes.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Might depend on your settings. When I scroll down I see threads that have no activity since August.
    I'm required to give him a hard time whenever possible.

  7. #7
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    The Turner forum ain't what it used to be a few years back. I don't think it has anything to do with the bikes. I still check it every day even though I no longer own one. I had 4 and just love the bikes and the company.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  8. #8
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    "What happened to this forum?"

    Ask me again in a few months


    Lets see those pow shots!!! Post em up!!!

  9. #9
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    Still riding my old school Flux 27.5 in the lava fields here in Hawaii. Not much new I guess to report. Wanted to get the new carbon frameset but it's priced out of my reach now.........

    What happened to this forum?-17022193_10154154779397714_3841160298926711842_n.jpg

  10. #10
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    I rode my RFX in Sedona on Sunday and today it was 20" of fresh on the local hill.

    Wifey rides an HD3 and does not frequent the Turner forum. That's ok by me.

    What happened to this forum?-7-meadows_1.jpg
    "Fart in a paper bag, after eating the #17 plate from filibertos. STRAVA!" M77Ranger.

  11. #11
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    The Turner forum is dead because FoShizzle, Bikezilla, squeak and others are off doing something else..........

  12. #12
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    My turner doesn't work quite so well here right now:

    What happened to this forum?-01fe6493892f4205f23c8a825dc4ea46a811532f13.jpgWhat happened to this forum?-g0205365s.jpg
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Might depend on your settings. When I scroll down I see threads that have no activity since August.

    To answer the original question I think part of it comes down to the market moving and Turner not moving quickly enough to stay in front of it. It is a small company with limited resources and the rapid movement to longer/lower/slacker is not their traditional market. Their resistance to 67 HA's on XC bikes (hyperbole I know) meant the market moved past them. They also avoided carbon for too long. Intense needed a major cash infusion to catch up and Turner has not seen that level of investment.
    Agree. Turner is at a crossroads. One could lead them back to splendid glory.....the other a death spiral. I like the splendid glory route.

  14. #14
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    I fail to see the connection between a slow forum and Turner sales.
    "Fart in a paper bag, after eating the #17 plate from filibertos. STRAVA!" M77Ranger.

  15. #15
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    Powder Season Here!

    What happened to this forum?-img_1886-600x800-.jpg

    Lots of snow this season here in Central Oregon. Will be a while before we're able to get out and ride.

    That said I'm pretty sure Dave's not sitting around with nothing to do.
    The guy's always working to push his bikes forward.
    Can't wait to see his next overhaul!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Might depend on your settings. When I scroll down I see threads that have no activity since August.

    To answer the original question I think part of it comes down to the market moving and Turner not moving quickly enough to stay in front of it. It is a small company with limited resources and the rapid movement to longer/lower/slacker is not their traditional market. Their resistance to 67 HA's on XC bikes (hyperbole I know) meant the market moved past them. They also avoided carbon for too long. Intense needed a major cash infusion to catch up and Turner has not seen that level of investment.
    Well said. You can't resist change, charge the same amounts and expect same level of interest. People will eventually look to other brands that offer latest standards and new tech. Especially for ones that change bikes every 1-2 years. Different story for diehards that keep riding same rig for a decade. They might keep coming back but don't hold your breath. And compared to 5 yrs ago there is much greater competition in bike market which presents lot more options to the consumer. I ve owned 3 turners (flux, sultan, Czar )great bikes and have followed the brand but I get it that Turner fan base is slowly dissipating. I really think Turner wants to keep up but it's a tough market with a very slippery slope - one slip and company can go under quickly.

    Ps make the Czar longer and w steeper seat tube.


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  17. #17
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    It died when Smokey left............

  18. #18
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    tscheezy left too. I think the competition really picked up and Turner was a bit slow to adjust. Pivot, Ibis, and a couple of newcomers really started to crank out new bikes, while well-funded bigger companies like Intense, Santa Cruz, Yeti, and others, did the same in quick succession and with several models. I do think Turner sales are down, but being my favorite company, that makes me a bit sad. Looking forward to the new Sultan...

  19. #19
    roots, rocks, rhythm
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    I have really noticed that in the last 10 years the bike industry really changed.
    I still think that Turner produces a great product and is still relevant.
    I don't think that Turner has slowed down as much as everyone else has caught up to what was consider a boutique bike brand. Throw in other names also!

    10 years a go it was unheard of to see bikes just sitting there for $7000.00 or up!
    Now you see in some stores at least 2 or 3 like that.
    And on top of that people or should I say riders with not a lot of experience don't even blink twice spending $4000.00 for their first bike now a days.

    I would say there are a lot more players out putting out a lot of bikes, a lot more riders getting into riding, consumers flush with cash $$$ (I wish I had that problem.....) just to name a few.........

    I am kind of weird.......I ride because I love to ride and I love riding a awesome, dependable, very cool bike with cool sexy parts........ that is what makes me happy.
    I don't care what anyone else thinks.


    There is my 2 cents.....
    97' Brodie Expresso
    00' Turner RFX
    08' Turner RFX
    13' Surly Troll
    15' Surly ICT

  20. #20
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    Just my two cents. There are a lot more subforums now. In the old days, the Turner forum tended to be a clearinghouse for questions that now go other places (brakes, shock and fork tuning, suspension design). As others point out, Turner also doesn't put out a new bike each week. Each bike is segmented, so you don't get the questions of which bike in an 8 model lineup separated by 10mm increments to purchase. Finally, I don't think the majority of Turner riders are looking for fad of the month, rather a good long term purchase that rides well.

    New riders do show up, for example my son went from a Santa Cruz to a 5 Spot. When he outgrew the Spot, I put him on a Canfield Balance. A month later he was on a Burner. He keeps asking me when the new DHR is coming to replace his YT tues. A friend went through several frames until I built him a Burner: that was 2 years ago and he has no urge to upgrade the frame.


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    Riding slowly since 1977.

  21. #21
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    What happened to this forum?

    Is there still such thing as boutique brands? seems all have gone mainstream and are more inline with the big 3 or they've folded. A local shop near me that once was known for only carrying the cool boutique names that no other shop carried including Turner have seemingly moved in the opposite direction and have become a Trek dealer and don't see all too many boutique bikes in there no more, funny cause yrs ago if you brought a Trek in there you'd feel the negative vibes for riding a Trek but now they are selling them. There's even a local shop that morphed into a Giant store- selling only Giant bikes and products.


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  22. #22
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    I've owned 4 Turners in my lifetime and at one time converted 2 friends to homers. Fast forward to 2017 and none of us continue to ride Turners. Still watch the forum and want to see what Turner delivers next, but for now I find the brand mostly irrelevant. One thing I have learned, being a homer or dedicated to any one brand gets you nothing. I ride what works for me and could care less about the brand. Times have changed and based on DT's offerings I've moved on.


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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chowdapilot View Post
    I've owned 4 Turners in my lifetime and at one time converted 2 friends to homers. Fast forward to 2017 and none of us continue to ride Turners. Still watch the forum and want to see what Turner delivers next, but for now I find the brand mostly irrelevant. One thing I have learned, being a homer or dedicated to any one brand gets you nothing. I ride what works for me and could care less about the brand. Times have changed and based on DT's offerings I've moved on.


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    What exactly is a Homer anyways? Context tells me it's simply a Turner owner, and a friend has said that Homers are about as smart as Homer Simpson, but something tells me he made that up.

  24. #24
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    Lots of good points already made but my 2 cents. I've been following the forum for a long time and have owned 4 Turners and got my wife and two brothers on them. The forum traffic seemed like it tapered off when some of the original homers moved on and there wasn't as much swapping of rockers/rear triangles/shortshocking/etc. when DT moved to dw link. I'm currently on a V4 RFX but I've had to work really hard to make it work for me. Coincidentally, a lot of the swapping was to try to get more modern geometry out of the HL and TNT frames. In my opinion, Turner has always had conservative geometry. I think other manufacturers have caught up and surpassed Turner in some regards, especially geometry. Trails have changed (at least in my area), riding styles and preferences have changed and the newer bike designs have reflected this. I can't tell if DT is catering to an older demographic, hedging his bets, or just being plain stubborn!

  25. #25
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    Funny, but I came here to see if this forum was as dead as it was, last time I checked.

    I used to post here a lot and owned two HL Turners, back in 04'.
    Last edited by Steve71; 03-02-2017 at 12:13 PM.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  26. #26
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    I think forums in general as a platform have slowed down. Facebook, Instagram, etc have put a dent in it. I see the same thing on the car forums I go to. Which is a shame because the level of detail and discussion you get on a forum is superior to the typical pretty pictures and limited info you can get on other forms of media. I have fought it for years but may have to sign up for Facebook because it's the only way to stay connected and up to date for some of my other hobbies.

    I haven't posted here much because I'm really satisfied with my set up. I'm riding a Turner Burner and it really checks all of the boxes for me right now. It's set up great for my kind of riding and I'm not shopping for a new bike. When it comes time to replace I'll probably be more active to research things but for now other than changing tires I'm good. Maybe it has something to do with getting older too and having other priorities. I'm not after the tweak of the week, I don't want to argue/discuss suspension linkages/bearings/geometry/materials anymore, I just wanna ride. Turner makes excellent bikes, without all of the marketing BS you get from other brands. When I buy a Turner I know the details have been sorted out and it will provide years of great performance.

  27. #27
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    all of your moms happened, that what - there is little time and no longer a need to e-masturbate here with all you douchebagz

  28. #28
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
    tscheezy left too. I think the competition really picked up and Turner was a bit slow to adjust. Pivot, Ibis, and a couple of newcomers really started to crank out new bikes, while well-funded bigger companies like Intense, Santa Cruz, Yeti, and others, did the same in quick succession and with several models. I do think Turner sales are down, but being my favorite company, that makes me a bit sad. Looking forward to the new Sultan...
    thank you for your in depth market analysis. you must have an MBA

  29. #29
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle View Post
    thank you for your in depth market analysis. you must have an MBA
    I used to have a Mountain Bike Action
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  30. #30
    Dream it, Do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    A friend went through several frames until I built him a Burner: that was 2 years ago and he has no urge to upgrade the frame.
    I like that. A Turner is the bike you get when you decide to get over bike geek anxiety & just decide to GO RIDE.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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  31. #31
    Dream it, Do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyjr View Post
    Is there still such thing as boutique brands? seems all have gone mainstream and are more inline with the big 3 or they've folded. A local shop near me that once was known for only carrying the cool boutique names that no other shop carried including Turner have seemingly moved in the opposite direction and have become a Trek dealer and don't see all too many boutique bikes in there no more, funny cause yrs ago if you brought a Trek in there you'd feel the negative vibes for riding a Trek but now they are selling them. There's even a local shop that morphed into a Giant store- selling only Giant bikes and products.


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    What's happened for brick-and-mortar stores is that e-commerce has taken away a lot of their high-margin sales of accessories and parts which in turn reduces the amount of cash flow that can work with. The big boys of the independent bike dealer world (Specialized, Trek, Giant & Cannondale) can afford to provide a dealer with 6 month terms for repayment on bike inventory purchased pre-season. The boutique brands can't do so and thus lose out on floor space. Many "dealers" of boutique brands are essentially order takers for those brands and don't carry much if anything from those brands.

    I believe that riders, especially serious riders, do want to buy the boutique brands. The challenge is finding a financially viable business model to get those brands in front of riders. From what I see, doing so in a brick and mortar setting is quite difficult given the current market situation. For us, we're highly focused on the bike demo as key part of our retail value proposition to show the "why to buys" of Turner bikes to prospective customers. Taking this route also has meant that we have chosen to forego the expensive brick-and-mortar storefront as I don't believe that adds real value to the customer shopping process in a world when everything a buyer might want to see or learn about is on the Web.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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  32. #32
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    Who is a "boutique" brand these days? What does it mean with carbon making manufacturing go offshore?
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  33. #33
    Dream it, Do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefmagic View Post
    Trails have changed (at least in my area), riding styles and preferences have changed and the newer bike designs have reflected this. I can't tell if DT is catering to an older demographic, hedging his bets, or just being plain stubborn!
    There is a lot of discussion of specs on the Web, but I feel that a lot of that is not based on actual ride experience. Turner's geometry may seem not up to date with certain trends esp. super long, low & slack, but I've found that Turner bikes actually work better than many other "modern" geometry bikes for everyday trail riding.

    For instance, enduro race replica bikes (of which the Yeti SB-6, Pivot Mach 6, DeVinci Spartan come to mind for me) feel super stable going downhill but are pretty unresponsive for other riding. In contrast, the RFX, to me, has a better balance of climbing and descending ability along with more nimbleness for everyday trail riding. The long, low and slack enduro geometry bikes require much higher speeds to come to life. They need to be ridden over the front to get the front tire to bite whereas I've found that Turner bikes have geometry that is more intuitive to use for most riding situations.

    I think that doing a demo ride for any high end bike is essential and this is an opportunity for Turner Bikes to demonstrate ride & handling beyond specs & angles.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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  34. #34
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    ......because time only moves forward, and nothing stays the same.

    Except Foshizzle. He will always be a douchebag,
    ****

  35. #35
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    I did not realize that Fo visited this place, since he doesn't actually ride and is a bit of a strange individual.

    Fo, I just spoke to Chad and even he has forgotten who you are. Loser.

  36. #36
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    I rode with Zilla not too long ago. He was on his 5 Spot. My son has a 5 Spot too. I do think there's plenty of solid choices these days away from the big box brands. Whereas when I owned all my Turners there were fewer great bikes out there. DT has to be one of the most genuine and nicest guys out there I wish him nothing but success. I hope he can get a broader spectrum of bikes to market. Remember when he had from nitrous to dhr?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    There is a lot of discussion of specs on the Web, but I feel that a lot of that is not based on actual ride experience. Turner's geometry may seem not up to date with certain trends esp. super long, low & slack, but I've found that Turner bikes actually work better than many other "modern" geometry bikes for everyday trail riding.

    For instance, enduro race replica bikes (of which the Yeti SB-6, Pivot Mach 6, DeVinci Spartan come to mind for me) feel super stable going downhill but are pretty unresponsive for other riding. In contrast, the RFX, to me, has a better balance of climbing and descending ability along with more nimbleness for everyday trail riding. The long, low and slack enduro geometry bikes require much higher speeds to come to life. They need to be ridden over the front to get the front tire to bite whereas I've found that Turner bikes have geometry that is more intuitive to use for most riding situations.

    I think that doing a demo ride for any high end bike is essential and this is an opportunity for Turner Bikes to demonstrate ride & handling beyond specs & angles.
    Yeah, I hear you and basically agree with your assessment about the RFX. It is great for everyday trail riding. I guess it comes down to what you want out of a 160mm bike. For everyday trail riding I prefer a 130mm-140mm frame. For 160 I prefer something a little more aggressive that exists for higher speeds. I also agree that numbers/specs don't tell the whole story, that was one reason why I bought the RFX without being able to test ride one. I had my reservations about the numbers but took the plunge anyway with that in mind. It's all good though. I realize it's my personal preference and for others it will absolutely hit the bullseye for them. I still dream about a RFX with the Warden's geometry.

  38. #38
    It's carbon dontcha know.
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    Still check in fairly frequently, but also still on my Burner which is a few months past it's 4th birthday now and my DHR is 5 1/2ish
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
    I did not realize that Fo visited this place, since he doesn't actually ride and is a bit of a strange individual.

    Fo, I just spoke to Chad and even he has forgotten who you are. Loser.

    FoShithead in person
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What happened to this forum?-erikmammoth1.jpg  


  40. #40
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    Turner bikes used to be the hot ticket especially when the 5 Spot came out, now there are soooo many great options not so much anymore. I agree with others tho that his bikes are still top notch and it's nice to see him not pushing new school enduro geometry that sucks on the trail just to sell more bikes. I would of bought another Sultan but wanted carbon and went with a Primer 29

  41. #41
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    So far all posts have been very informative.

    What happened to this forum?-img_9809.jpg
    What happened to this forum?-img_9805.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  42. #42
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    There was not much that could compare to the first came out back in ought 3. My 16 Knolly Endorphin reminds me a lot of that old Spot. A little roomier, slacker, and better suspension components, but a similar feel, at least to me. I sold it last year, sniff.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tickle View Post
    FoShithead in person
    Good to see Fo got his court ordered ankle bracelet removed.

  44. #44
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    I like the guy laughing at him in the background

  45. #45
    Never enough time to ride
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    I still check in from time to time. Popped around to a few different frames since the Sultan, and am actually currently riding an Advocate Hayduke. Had a Salsa Horsethief which was a fantastic riding bike, but wasn't super thrilled with ultra short rear end, gave up some downhill stability that the Sultan had.

    Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I'll look for a used Sultan!

    happy trails...

    Squish
    Get out and ride!

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tickle View Post
    I like the guy laughing at him in the background
    He is laughing with the photographer and not at the soppy tart with women bike!

    Anyway, what's up with the Sultan?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Have I been sleeping? The Turner forum once was one of the more active on this site. I just dropped in after a long hiatus and noticed very few active threads with most threads on the front page not having activity for a year or more. Is Turner still relevant in the market? All I've known of is high standards with a clique of diehard Turner fans. What's up?
    Funny, this is exactly what I was thinking before I went to the site now.
    I have a very large dose of respect for Dave, the crew there (always gotten excellent customer service and friendly chat), and the whole Turner legacy - how it started, developed, the history of the bikes and brand. I've owned two - a 2005 HL Spot - I bought the frame at The Path and built it up from parts I took from an Enduro, and again a 2015 DW Spot that was a demo in great shape I bought direct from Turner.
    Oddly, I felt more technically capable on the old HL, even though it has steeper angles, than I did on the DW, but not surprisingly, the DW pedaled incredibly well.

    I got into the sport in 1998, when I lived in SoCal and frequented SuperGo, and learned about brands, what was desirable and as for bikes back then, Turner and Ellsworth were top "boutique" brands. Turner 5 Spot or Ellsworth Truth.

    The new carbon RFX, Flux, and Czar are really nice bikes - but it sounds like the geo are dated on the Flux and Czar - according to some of you. My most recent bike purchase was last year - a Transition Scout, after test riding several from demos here, including Pivot and RM. The Scout suspension just felt incredible, and the geo is good. I looked at the Flux as well but couldn't test one unless make it to Outerbike. It's aluminum, and while I would have liked carbon, a buddy of mine who is essentially a pro level rider said if I get a nice carbon wheel set built up, it will "make me never regret not getting a carbon frame". Along with replacement of components with lighter, carbon one's as they were out (I ride the shit out of my bikes and components, and keep things serviced, but I don't have budget to replace things just for the sake of bling, or going lighter, when components are working just fine).

    One of the things Turner built themselves and marketed themselves on was differentiation and lasting quality - including those bushings with press fit, and then improved, threaded grease ports. I really liked that. and USA designed and built frames. I didn't ever notice any extra "stiction" myself, and I don't think I had to change them in my DW. A pivot did loosen up on my older 5 Spot once, on Holy Jim. Mo big deal. I was "temporarily" back in SoCal then, and The Path fixed that and it didn't loosen again.

    I think the brand could come back with modern designs, but they would probably need big advertising and sponsorship budget to do it, like Pivot did. Or alternately, maybe they could design modern, *****en bikes that can't be ignored, leverage the Turner brand (without the bearings vs. bushings thing which is old now and not even talked about anymore) - and build up their direct sales model, like Fezzari. I think it's too expensive to keep prices competitive and built in the USA. I'm not sure what's built here - is Ellsworth and Intense built here?
    The handmades are of course - Lynskey, Strong, etc. but we're talking a different market segment.
    How do you reinvent yourself and your brand when it was built on USA made, bushings vs. bearings, etc.. and that's done now?

    The "formula" for the modern "*****en" bike is pretty much set now anyway right? I guess Transition bucks the trend a bit by going with a modified Horst Link instead of something "DW Like" - but it felt awesome looked like it was made well, looked good, and there's a pretty strong Transition following that started up here, so I bought one. I probably wouldn't have bought one prior to the "Giddyup" suspension though.

    And yeah, if I have budget in future to do so and I like the bikes, I would definitely come back to Turner if they're around and have the offerings. If not, they had a good run and are legendary in their own way - like Schwinn was and GT was. I'll always respect them.
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  48. #48
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    The turner forum is now nothing but people selling turners.
    Last edited by Vespasianus; 03-31-2017 at 08:14 PM.
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  49. #49
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    But is that so that they can buy new ones ?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    The turner thread is now nothing but people selling turners.
    Did you mean forum and not thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  51. #51
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    Problem is that there is almost no product differentiation anymore with most bikes having multiple brands offering similar products and all riding incredibly well. When an industry reaches that stage, the only way for the competitors to compete is through capital and operational management efficiency. Unless Turner comes out with a new, independent proprietary suspension design that has qualitative differences over the market's offering expect to see the current trend continue.

  52. #52
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    Turner who???

  53. #53
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    Everyone posts in the Knolly thread now.

    Turner, Ibis, Pivot. They're all plastic DW Link bikes...

  54. #54
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    If it weren't for "What happened to this forum" there wouldn't be a forum!
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  55. #55
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    After I get done with this stuff, I'll be back on the Turner:

    https://youtu.be/kOOPlrqdtbA
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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    Forums aren't what they used to be with instagram taking over....If you're all really that concerned put down your violin and contribute something.

    prob should check Turners social media outlets for all the latest and greatest news...seems to me they've been plenty busy, active, with people enjoying their bikes.

    The teal RFX build from flowrider looks hawt
    https://www.instagram.com/turnerbikes/

  57. #57
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    Its tough for Turner to sell bikes if they are not putting them on the floor of bike stores to try. Demo days are also helpful. I look at what Pivot is doing now, as these bikes (5-Spot and Firebird 26er have similiar lineage). Pivot is putting their bikes on floors, I dont know what the financial terms are. Pivot has tons of bike shops supporting lots of Demo days. Pivot has a very extensive online website for those that prefer to buy a bike they have never ridden. Additionally, if you are a mechanic, and somebody walks in the door with a Turner to fix, you are not as excited to repair a bike that your shop cannot make a sale on. Im still riding the 5-Spot, still loving it! Its the perfect bike for NORCAL.

  58. #58
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    wow the violins just keep playing...maybe if Turner played some violin music on the website and had puppies with sad eyes next to his bikes he would sell more.


    YT industries.....nuff said.

    If you can't figure it out then get out.

    Dave mentioned he's looking at adjusting pricing and bringing back aluminum which I think is a solid move in the right direction.

  59. #59
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    Carbons great, carbons wonderful but it couldn't swim.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UaBoPFVh1fA Those in the UK older enough will remember.
    Is carbon that good? Maybe all who contributed to this forum have been priced out of the market. Bring back allly frames that are technically advanced. Here in the UK a few full suspension builders are using steel. What comes around goes around.
    I hope Turner gets back to its roots rather than being a fashion victim. Go back to making ally frames in the USA (no disrespect to the Far East) and get your soul back. Then the forum would motor.
    Skye

  60. #60
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    You really think bringing back aluminum frames is gonna bring Turner back into the game when other companies are surging ahead with carbon designs
    .


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    Hi, it's a fickle world. Anything is possible. Every one is pushing ahead with carbon whist ally is cheaper and as pointed out in previious posts just as good. They are flooding the market with carbon.
    Keep the carbon frames (of which I have nothing against) but also offer ally with the same geometry and build kit such as Santa Cruz ((dare I say).
    Turner is now in a huge market with lots of others! Maybe priced out of the game.
    Ask Many if they have heard of Cannondale, Scott, etc or Turner. What I am saying is Turner needs to do something to get back to its core riders and survive.
    I have been to Whistler Crank Works a few times and those in the know went to the Turner stand. Many ++++++++++++ just qued at the mega brands.
    If Turner brought back a just as equal ally frames that you don't have to mortgage your house for. with the same attention to detail and customer support, great.
    I guess the forum would be motoring as in the old days not so long ago (if that makes sense).
    However maybe this is not the post to discuss. But it's good to put the cat amongst the pidgeons. And I am not a troll but someone who wants to keep riding Turners. What happened to the Burner did it succumb to fashion rather than substance.
    Skye

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyerose123 View Post
    Hi, it's a fickle world. Anything is possible. Every one is pushing ahead with carbon whist ally is cheaper and as pointed out in previious posts just as good. They are flooding the market with carbon.
    Keep the carbon frames (of which I have nothing against) but also offer ally with the same geometry and build kit such as Santa Cruz ((dare I say).
    Turner is now in a huge market with lots of others! Maybe priced out of the game.
    Ask Many if they have heard of Cannondale, Scott, etc or Turner. What I am saying is Turner needs to do something to get back to its core riders and survive.
    I have been to Whistler Crank Works a few times and those in the know went to the Turner stand. Many ++++++++++++ just qued at the mega brands.
    If Turner brought back a just as equal ally frames that you don't have to mortgage your house for. with the same attention to detail and customer support, great.
    I guess the forum would be motoring as in the old days not so long ago (if that makes sense).
    However maybe this is not the post to discuss. But it's good to put the cat amongst the pidgeons. And I am not a troll but someone who wants to keep riding Turners. What happened to the Burner did it succumb to fashion rather than substance.
    I can't tell you how many times I have been asked what kind of bike my Turner is. People have never heard of the brand. Scary actually. I grew up lusting over Turners and now, all the kids know is Specialized, Trek and Santa Cruz.
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  63. #63
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    What happened to this forum?

    I thought people were killing DT for not going carbon soon enough ? I also look at the flux and Rfx geometry and don't see it as being super antiquated. Yetis for example don't have short stays or steep seat tube angles. Too many eriders these days. Throw a leg over a turner on your local trail system and I think you'll be impressed with how they ride.

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    I think theres a lot more to it then offering Carbon, Aluminum, or both in your lineup thats going make you a successful relevant company. A prime example right NOW is Ellsworth vs. YT industries.

    Aluminum is still very relevant, almost every company offers both a carbon and aluminum option. Some companies are still exclusively aluminum and remain relevant.

    I think whether or not your bikes ride great and are durable, if they look like ass, and your brand is stale, nobody is going to want to ride them.

    I think theres a number of things Turner could do to give their brand a kick.
    Sometimes is not just what you do but how you do it.

    FWIW I'm looking pretty hard at Guerrilla Gravity's Megatrail right now.

    Im still digging my RFX though, dont see buying another bike for a while. But if I were to buy a new bike today GG megatrail could be it.

  65. #65
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    I intend to ride the **** out of my RFX again this season. There are bikes that do particular things maybe a little better, but I didn't get this bike to make sacrifices like before, like slightly better geometry for worse pedaling characteristics, or better pedaling characteristics for worse lateral rigidity, etc. I got it because it's a balanced bike that rips. If one is having trouble ripping down the trail on it, it's surely not the bike.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  66. #66
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    Re: the carbon debate, Richard Cunningham, in an "Ask Pink Bike" article today answering a reader's query whether to choose an alumimum or carbon framed bike, lays out a very solid argument in favor of carbon. In short, carbon comes out of the mold straight, is tuff as hell, and can be layed up any way you want, and is completely repeatable. Alumunum on the other hand has to be over built by the nature of the material (so its heavier then), and has to be heat treated and aligned. Not awesome for suspension pivots. RC argues that aluminum has its place for test mules and price points, but when your going for it carbon is the choice. Carbon has a longer engineering time, but once its dialed thats that. I don't know, but I have to think DT is probably looking at things throught somewhat the same lens. I love the look of CNC sculped bit on my bike, but I'm also to the point that I'd like give a plastic RFX a go and see how it stacks against my Burner. I dont' think Turner is going anywhere, by the way. I think you might see Turner partner with somebody because of the cash needs of carbon bike development, but that is another deal.

  67. #67
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    Aluminum RFX

    My better half has her choice of an Evil Calling, Evil Insurgent and an old 3rd hand, repainted and updated TNT RFX. Take a wild guess which is her favorite by farWhat happened to this forum?-2017-04-06_06-30-23.jpg.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by polarflux View Post
    Re: the carbon debate, Richard Cunningham, in an "Ask Pink Bike" article today answering a reader's query whether to choose an alumimum or carbon framed bike, lays out a very solid argument in favor of carbon. In short, carbon comes out of the mold straight, is tuff as hell, and can be layed up any way you want, and is completely repeatable. Alumunum on the other hand has to be over built by the nature of the material (so its heavier then), and has to be heat treated and aligned. Not awesome for suspension pivots. RC argues that aluminum has its place for test mules and price points, but when your going for it carbon is the choice. Carbon has a longer engineering time, but once its dialed thats that. I don't know, but I have to think DT is probably looking at things throught somewhat the same lens. I love the look of CNC sculped bit on my bike, but I'm also to the point that I'd like give a plastic RFX a go and see how it stacks against my Burner. I dont' think Turner is going anywhere, by the way. I think you might see Turner partner with somebody because of the cash needs of carbon bike development, but that is another deal.
    There were several factors that RC didn't factor into his reply. Most notably, sustainability. Much to my surprise, very many commenters said that they wouldn't go carbon because of the inability to recycle it. If this doesn't impact your decision to carbon vs. aluminum, then that's your right.

    Personally, I also like supporting local manufacturing. But I can't criticize RC for not touching on this, because there are so few USA made bike frames to choose from nowadays.

    As for the performance differences that RC mentions... this argument is similar to one that often comes up in motorsports forums with a manual transmission vs. automatics. Autos are no longer slower shifting than a properly operated manual and as such, 0-60 times and other performance metrics favor automatics. Despite this, I bought the MT version of my current car because, in the grand scheme of things, I came to grips with the fact that as I'm not a competitive racer (though I do track my car (non-competitively) as frequently as possible), the seconds saved by driving an auto vs. an MT are entirely moot to me. The amount of lap time that I can claw back through driver training is orders of magnitude greater than what I would save by having gone auto. Not to mention the auto would take away a part the visceral experience that makes tracking my car so fun for me.

    Anyway, my point is that for most of us, the performance differences between these frame materials is inconsequential. If youíre a competitive racer and the extra pound of mass will keep you off of the podium, then in my opinion itís worth the investment. Otherwise, that extra pound will just make you a stronger rider. And youíll have an extra several hundred bucks in your wallet to do with as you please.

    By way of example. Devinciís Marshall is available in both Carbon and Aluminum. Compared to aluminum, the carbon model represents an 18% reduction in weight at a 40% increase in MSRP. The Aluminum version is welded in North America, the carbon overseas. And the aluminum version is recyclable, the carbon frame is not. All of that said, Iíd buy the Aluminum version over the carbon all day long. Iíd deal with the extra 1.5 lbs of weight and feel happy that some guy in Canada welded my frame. And Iíd take the $700 that I didnít spend on the carbon model and Iíd take my girls out for a movie and ice cream.

    Anyway, thatís my long-winded way of saying that for many of us, the choosing carbon isnít as clear a choice as RC makes it out to be.

  69. #69
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    yep Jayem I agree with ya.

    I always get a little new bike enve when the latest and greatest bikes are released. But the RFX is a great all around bike that doesn't sacrifice anything IMO...Once the honeymoon stage is over their all basically just another bike Id probably still be riding my Burner if Dave didnt offer me the RFX in a warranty deal.

    My only thing is I been on Turner bikes since 2009 and nothing personal but kinda itching to try something different. Well see, maybe time I'm ready for a new bike Turner will have something new.

    Sometimes I feel like this with Turner Bikes...

  70. #70
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    Smile

    The DW link bikes will always be relevant, no matter what material they are made of. The people that ride them know this. I will buy whatever material DW bike that Turner makes. I badmouthed carbon early on because I saw lots of parts and frames failing and I didn't think that you could do better than an aluminum Turner. After seeing the success and durability of the Czar and other carbon Turners, I knew it was time to replace my aluminum Flux with something carbon. It was hard, but I patiently and loyally waited for the carbon Flux, and I am very pleased that I waited. The Turner carbon frames are amazing. I would have bought aluminum to get a DW link bike, but everyone that rides a carbon bike knows how good they feel.
    I wouldn't hold my breath for a cheap aluminum Turner. The equivalent aluminum bikes from makers like Santa Cruz aren't that much cheaper than their carbon. You might as well go carbon. It would be nice to have two versions of every frame, but that is a pretty lofty expectation. We need to open up a "go fund me" page if we expect DT to do that.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho View Post
    My better half has her choice of an Evil Calling, Evil Insurgent and an old 3rd hand, repainted and updated TNT RFX. Take a wild guess which is her favorite by farClick image for larger version. 

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    I'd probably pick the old Turner too. Cuz 26" wheels are more fun. Sorry, I'll return to the 26'ers forum now....

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    I thought people were killing DT for not going carbon soon enough ? I also look at the flux and Rfx geometry and don't see it as being super antiquated. Yetis for example don't have short stays or steep seat tube angles. Too many eriders these days. Throw a leg over a turner on your local trail system and I think you'll be impressed with how they ride.
    You unwittingly revealed the problem: Where you gonna demo a Turner??? I'd love to throw a leg over a carbon Flux.

  73. #73
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    Loved my DW Spot, Love my DW Burner, don't have the time or energy to waste on forums like I did 10 years ago. Todays Turners may not be for everyone, but they never have been and never will be. Thats not what DT is about.

  74. #74
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    Glory Days

    Tuners glory days were really the horst link bikes. I think aesthetically the proportion of the frames and rockers were just pleasing to the eye. the industrial look with the proportionate look and the amazing ride and service made Turner the industry bench mark. The truth is humans are visual creatures and persuaded by looks. Once Turner went to the DW Link aluminum frame, no offense, but the proportions of the rear triangle to the front just looked off and didn't make one really desire dropping 3k on a frame that looked disproportionate and not pleasing to the eye.

    look at Yeti sb line, it looks stunning. New carbon Turners look fairly good too, but I think a lot of damage was done with the DW aluminum, and now DW Link bikes are pretty much commoditized and sold according to who has the most capital and best marketing.

  75. #75
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    I guess what I was trying to point out was this forum does not have the following it once had. Does Turner have the following it once had?
    I first bought a five spot having read a review with a picture of the bike riding down steps at a rail station. One of the first suspension bikes I had really taken an interest in. The review praised the handling and the build quality of the made in the USA frame. (I sold the Heckler to a guy who had bought a Scott with the pull suspension that failed on a dangerous section of trail. Failures in mass produced bikes were a little more common).
    At the time there was something more to Turner than the handling etc. Something that can't be measured but all bikers know. The bike and the brand had soul and prestige.
    You just weren't flinging a bike down the trails but riding a Turner. There was even more pride.
    How many pictures are now posted of a Turner on a sofa or posts referring to the homers?
    The forum has lost its soul. I have to go I'm going to shed a tear.
    Last edited by skyerose123; 04-07-2017 at 04:44 AM.
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyerose123 View Post
    I guess what I was trying to point out was this forum does not have the following it once had....The forum has lost its soul. I have to go I'm going to shed a tear.
    I agree that the turner community is a big part of the brand's soul. And if mtbr is still a valid barometer for measuring this, then it appears that you're not far off. I remember when there was a steady flow 3 digit viewers of this forum. But it could be that the community have moved on to facebook, instagram, etc. I'm not an active social media guy, so I wouldn't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    ...now DW Link bikes are pretty much commoditized and sold according to who has the most capital and best marketing.
    I think you nailed it here. Virtual Pivot bikes have flooded the market. Carbon bikes have flooded the market. Consumer direct bikes are flooding the market. The novelty of a Turner frame appears to be no more.

    I can't tell you how many times I've read that somebody won't buy a non-sub 17" chainstayed frame. Those people wont look past the Turner RFX geo page. Even for those that are curious if they can get past the 17.2" stays of the RFX, they'll have a hard time finding one to throw a leg over one to test it out. And it's no big deal to them... there are dozens of sub 17 CS, carbon, virtual pivot, long, low, slack frames to choose from.

    I think that if DT is going to continue to go down the path he's currently on, he needs to latch on to every aesthetic or geometric trend the industry dreams up. Similar to what Pivot is doing these days. The kids eat this kind of stuff up.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by incubus View Post
    The kids eat this kind of stuff up.
    But, the adults are the ones actually spending money.
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    But, the adults are the ones actually spending money.
    Ain't that the truth.

    Been a Turner homer since the HL days (when I could barely afford one), and I'm still digging the ride of the new stuff (Czar & Flux v4 in the garage). Demo'd some Pivots and they were nice, but they just didn't have the same feel on the trail as a Turner - I'm big fan of the dw-link for the XC/AM type riding I do. Would like to try an Ibis sometime as well.

    Nothing looks as cool as a raw aluminum frame, but the carbon frames are definitely stiffer and lighter (not sure about durability) and I'm still leary of the move to bearings, crappy bearings in my old Truth is what pushed me to Turner in the first place, but they haven't been terrible so far.

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    No past Homerism, no care about forum traffic or soul. Former 429, 429c and Bronson v1 owner happy to be on a Czar because of the ride and fit.

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    Maybe there is a simpler answer. I just picked a year out of the air :- 2007 and looked at the Turner bike line. There were seven frames. Now only three (not counting the cyclocross).
    Fewer bikes, fewer riders and fewer contributors to this forum.
    Skye

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    That may be changing soon. I would suspect a 29er. I am just speculating.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyerose123 View Post
    Maybe there is a simpler answer. I just picked a year out of the air :- 2007 and looked at the Turner bike line. There were seven frames. Now only three (not counting the cyclocross).
    Fewer bikes, fewer riders and fewer contributors to this forum.
    I'm guessing nitrous flux 5 Spot RFX Highline DHR - what am I missing ? I'd also say that today's bikes are so much more versatile and capable though so fewer bikes necessary. Turners current line up could do with a sultan replacement plus a DHR and they're about done.

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    FWIW, I owned several Turners back in the day when I first began riding. Used to see a grip of them on South Mountain here in Phoenix.

    I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a Turner on the trail. It's literally been years.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  84. #84
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    Saw several in the last few days. Also, at a bike swap yesterday a guy was selling a 2015 Czar medium frame ridden during the summer for the last few years. Wanted $1700 for it, which is what I paid I believe for my 2016 Pivot 429SL, brand new from a retailer. Guy claimed the Czar retailed for 2999, which is several hundred more than actual. Obviously my Pivot was marked down, but the retail of the Czar is steep, a little too steep for my tastes, no matter how much I love my Turner, and $1700 for a used frame? Damn shit has gotten expensive... Since my RFX is my main ride, I don't mind putting down a little more on it.

    We may see more turners up here because Rick at RTR is a long-time friend of DT from back in the day, which has helped distribution up here. Probably where Tcheezy got his.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  85. #85
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    The price is a bit steep, until you walk into one of the big brand stores and realize they are several grand more and still have a suspension design that requires a lockout.

    I rode with a guy yesterday whose Trek cost $4K MORE than my carbon Flux - similar spec, both had nice carbon wheels - he had XX Eagle and my Flux only has X0 Eagle.

  86. #86
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    Last summer I counted seeing only 1 Turner on the trails in the PNW. Had a conversation with the owner, turned out he was the owner of Dirt Merchants.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Saw several in the last few days. Also, at a bike swap yesterday a guy was selling a 2015 Czar medium frame ridden during the summer for the last few years. Wanted $1700 for it, which is what I paid I believe for my 2016 Pivot 429SL, brand new from a retailer. Guy claimed the Czar retailed for 2999, which is several hundred more than actual. Obviously my Pivot was marked down, but the retail of the Czar is steep, a little too steep for my tastes, no matter how much I love my Turner, and $1700 for a used frame? Damn shit has gotten expensive...
    429SL msrp is $2999. Czar msrp is $2695.

    Its sort of apples-to-oranges if you're comparing your best-case bro-deal to a random overpriced (and still unsold I'll bet) bike swap seller.

    As an opposite cherry-picking example: I can literally buy a brand new XL Czar in blue for $1899 right now, direct from Turner, but a XL 429SL from Competitive Cyclist is $3000.

    Turner msrp looks pretty average to me, perhaps even on the low side. Cheapest msrp I see for quality carbon suspension frames is about $2500 (Evil Following, Pivot 429 Trail). Even the simpler Split-Pivot Salsas run ~ $2600. Contrast that with $3500 for current Yeti models. Or $2999 for Ibis.

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    Who besides Turner has a liberal trade-in offer on frames? $600 off MSRP means a little more when it's not already premium priced.

    Not bummed nobody's picked up my small 'Spot Ė might end up being a C Flux...

  89. #89
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    Ah..yeah. Also what happened to the older threads that included discussions about past (maybe 2 yer old) turner models? Now its all about dah carbon...

  90. #90
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    He lost all my future business when he sent me a snotty reply about my Last gen DHR and said something along the lines of no one rides DH anymore.. No sorry Dave no one rides Turner DHR's anymore...

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leethal View Post
    He lost all my future business when he sent me a snotty reply about my Last gen DHR and said something along the lines of no one rides DH anymore.. No sorry Dave no one rides Turner DHR's anymore...
    I do.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leethal View Post
    He lost all my future business when he sent me a snotty reply about my Last gen DHR and said something along the lines of no one rides DH anymore.. No sorry Dave no one rides Turner DHR's anymore...
    awww I bet you cried yourself to sleep that night

    the DHR was a sick sled, would like to see an updated one....I ride DH on my RFX...DH bikes are a lot of fun though, may be picking one up this year.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leethal View Post
    He lost all my future business when he sent me a snotty reply about my Last gen DHR and said something along the lines of no one rides DH anymore.. No sorry Dave no one rides Turner DHR's anymore...
    Really surprised as Dave has been more than helpful in the past and customer support is or was excellent. Two of the many reasons people ride Turners. Everyone raved about the DHR and down hill is very much alive here in the UK.

    Sea Otter is coming up and I suspect it's all hands on deck. I just hope Dave has a couple of surprises.
    Skye

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyerose123 View Post
    Really surprised as Dave has been more than helpful in the past and customer support is or was excellent. Two of the many reasons people ride Turners. Everyone raved about the DHR and down hill is very much alive here in the UK.

    Sea Otter is coming up and I suspect it's all hands on deck. I just hope Dave has a couple of surprises.
    yeah my experience w Turners customer service has always been top notch.

  95. #95
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    I was out there today, riding my trusted 5 Spot. I agree though, not many out there anymore. Would really like to be able to demo one, before dropping 7 grand on a new bike!

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leethal View Post
    He lost all my future business when he sent me a snotty reply about my Last gen DHR and said something along the lines of no one rides DH anymore.. No sorry Dave no one rides Turner DHR's anymore...
    You ever talk to dave before? What comes across as snotty in text is most likely candor/what he thinks that wouldn't come across as such in person.

    Don't know, didn't see it. But he's not known for being snotty to customers.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leethal View Post
    He lost all my future business when he sent me a snotty reply about my Last gen DHR and said something along the lines of no one rides DH anymore.. No sorry Dave no one rides Turner DHR's anymore...
    Dafu...only ones I've seen...dhr
    ...

  98. #98
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    Actually, saw new rfx 2 years ago, but that doesn't count (photoshoot was pure luck)
    ...

  99. #99
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    I stop by every now and then but everything is about the latest and the greatest,carbon what not and I really don't have anything to contribute because my Turner is 12 years old Horst with an aluminum frame and a 26er to top it off

  100. #100
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    That is exactly the kind of thing that needs to be shared. Most Homers already know the life span of Turner's but it is good for people to be reminded of that and for those trolling to see.

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