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  1. #1
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    Website updated. No 5 spot on the list of bikes...

    Whoa! It's official.

    Bob

  2. #2
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    It's a sad day...

  3. #3
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    Yeah, I was hoping to find a 2013 close out at my (semi) local Turner dealer the other day for CHEAP. No dice. The shop guy said they were all snapped up months ago. I thought 26ers were out.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  4. #4
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    Wow, that's kinda sad. I'm still in love with my 5 Spot. Hope DT keeps some spares around for it.

  5. #5
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    When I visited Turner last month, I think they said they hadn't sold a Spot in months.

  6. #6
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    Website updated. No 5 spot on the list of bikes...

    I guess they need the space on the webpage for when the Mach6 killing 6Spot comes out

    Farewell to 26ers though.

  7. #7
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    There are about 25 5 Spots left, just too few to take up the space or time in the new web site. The last of the 5 Spots are on sale, just call or email with size request.

    DT

  8. #8
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    I guess the burner is doing everything and more than the spot has been doing.

  9. #9
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    Well at least I can now say I own a classic mountain bike.
    Skye

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesinmud View Post
    I guess the burner is doing everything and more than the spot has been doing.
    I demoed a Flux and a Burner a few weeks back. The Burner I think is more what the RFX used to be and the Flux is definitely what my Spot is as far as a trail bike. I've owned a Spot for many years now and can say that with the larger wheels a Flux with less travel is a better trail bike then my Spot. I apologize to Turner for not typing this up sooner, a full report will be coming. However, bottom line. Based on the roots, rocks, and technical trail riding I like to do here, the new Flux with its larger wheels, lighter weight out climbs, descends and just rides better than my 2007 Spot with HL rear and 27.5 with Magura Thor.

  11. #11
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    Thanks TurnerBikes for a great 10 year run on what has become a classic bike. Many happy trails were ridden with my 03 and then 08 Spots. Still rocking the RFX.

  12. #12
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    Interesting. After the this little chat goes up, only 1 person contacted us today to buy one of the closeout 5 Spots. You guys might be shedding a tear for the past, but no one actually wants to buy a piece of it. Oh sure. 2 stroke motocross bikes and 57 Chevy's have their place, but it is a pretty small place. RIP 26" trail bike.

    DT

  13. #13
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    The website shows 5 spots in only small and xl frames with orange ano. Anything else kicking around?

  14. #14
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    yes DT you are right, it would seem the days of the 26" are waining. hopefully in the future the spot name can be resurrected in different form. shame the burner wasn't named the Spot 27.5, the Burner is a great name and great bike, love mine
    who knows, the Burner was resurrected maybe one day the Spot will as well. I also really liked mine over the years, 08, 09, and 11. The Burner for me now does what the Spot did for me just better.
    Product designer @RSDBikes.com

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Interesting. After the this little chat goes up, only 1 person contacted us today to buy one of the closeout 5 Spots. You guys might be shedding a tear for the past, but no one actually wants to buy a piece of it. Oh sure. 2 stroke motocross bikes and 57 Chevy's have their place, but it is a pretty small place. RIP 26" trail bike.

    DT
    I am just waiting for the ibike and outerbike demos to go on sale... Santa is coming.

    Need (want) a large burner, flux, czar or sultan. Not sure which...
    Last edited by bobo_krkk_NIN; 11-07-2013 at 07:28 AM.

  16. #16
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    This gave me all the reasons why I should keep my 5spot. Its a classic. And since its no longer in production, we owners should feel privileged we own one ready to shred some trails! Im keeping this to "my royce can attract more chicks than your ferrari brah!"

  17. #17
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    Im I just an old retogrouch fart for still loving my 08 Flux ..... Colorado riding
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Website updated.  No 5 spot on the list of bikes...-downsized_0426131804.jpg  


  18. #18
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    went to the updated website, checked out a few bikes' geometry & "what the...?" why would Dave bother listing wheelbases? such useless info
    breezy shade

  19. #19
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    Sounds like there's no incentive to upgrade at all here, as they've got 24 bikes worth of spare parts.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  20. #20
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    Hodge, the only reason we added WB is that many riders ask. Instead of buying a bike that fits they would rather guess what it will ride like based on wheelbase, and this analysis based on the wheel base of a different brand model, and NOW, wheel size bike! But, instead explaining the bike should fit first we decided to provide the info the riders want and let them buy based on the numbers they think are applicable.

    DT

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    ...them buy based on the numbers they think are applicable.

    DT
    Numbers are good. More info the better IMO.

    Cheers DT&Crew

    Deano

  22. #22
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    Hi Dave,

    If you have a spare large triangle from 2011 onwards I would be interested in upgrading..

    Neil

  23. #23
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    I had a total of 4 Five Spots, H-Link, TNT and 2x DW. Getting my first spot was an absolute game changer for me. It was the first suspension bike that did not feel like a noodle to me.

    I now have a Sultan. Maybe I have to add a Burner at some point.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Interesting. After the this little chat goes up, only 1 person contacted us today to buy one of the closeout 5 Spots. You guys might be shedding a tear for the past, but no one actually wants to buy a piece of it. Oh sure. 2 stroke motocross bikes and 57 Chevy's have their place, but it is a pretty small place. RIP 26" trail bike.

    DT
    I have a two-stroke motorcycle still........and a 26" wheeled bike

    Wouldn't mind having a 2012 Spot as back-up/2nd bike..... but it would have to be discounted deeply to steer me away from the flux or Czar or similar bigger wheeled siren. Se' la vi
    Last edited by KRob; 11-15-2013 at 07:39 PM.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    There are about 25 5 Spots left, just too few to take up the space or time in the new web site. The last of the 5 Spots are on sale, just call or email with size request.

    DT
    no mediums
    breezy shade

  26. #26
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    Hi Dave,

    Will Turner still be producing the Full Rebuild Kits for the 5-spot or should I snag a bunch of them up now from you? I just rebuilt my 2009 5-spot this year and it is slicing and dicing the trails in Nor-Cal! I will never sell my 5-spot, probably give it to my son when he is ready for a big boy bike. I will be in Southern California in March and hope to demo either the Flux or Czar for a day and see how it feels.

    Cheers DT!

    Dan Zepeda

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by zgroove View Post
    Hi Dave,

    Will Turner still be producing the Full Rebuild Kits for the 5-spot or should I snag a bunch of them up now from you? I just rebuilt my 2009 5-spot this year and it is slicing and dicing the trails in Nor-Cal! I will never sell my 5-spot, probably give it to my son when he is ready for a big boy bike. I will be in Southern California in March and hope to demo either the Flux or Czar for a day and see how it feels.

    Cheers DT!

    Dan Zepeda
    I think all the non down hill dw bikes use the same basic rebuild kits (bushings and such).
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  28. #28
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    The dw equipped bikes made in USA from mid 2008 till now use the same rebuild kits, they will be around a long time.

  29. #29
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    Cody Webb on his Beta 300 2 stroke has kicked ass on all the endurocross 4 strokes the last 2 rounds.

  30. #30
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    Maybe DT meant 2 strokes in motocross - more specifically pro MX and trying to make the main and doing well in the big show. Not EnduroCross or FMX (freestyle motocross, gawd I hate that "sport").

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmitch2 View Post
    Cody Webb on his Beta 300 2 stroke has kicked ass on all the endurocross 4 strokes the last 2 rounds.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobo_krkk_NIN View Post
    I am just waiting for the ibike and outerbike demos to go on sale... Santa is coming.

    Need (want) a large burner, flux, czar or sultan. Not sure which...
    The demo bikes are for sale. They just don't have them listed on the website yet. I know because I asked a few weeks ago. Just call or email them.

  32. #32
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    Interesting that Dave references 2 stroke motorcycles in his justification for killing/death off the beloved 5 Spot.
    Did you know that KTM is the sole mfg who continued to develop the 2 stroke line of engines. They had done this as all the Euro and Japanese brands killed them off for the 4 stroke engines for a litany of enviro and political BS.
    The marketplace by default bought them(strokers) by the milllions in various sizes.
    Well, about 2006 or so. People began to realize the cost of ownership of these new hi-perf strokers was far in excess of what they were comfortable with spending(it is a hobby after all).
    KTM was the sole mfg still making competitive smokers. The market swung back to smokers and has grabbed a sizeable market share which kept KTM healthy through some really rough years.
    The people that jumped back in realized they were missing the other qualities of the smokers like lighter weight, snappier power, easier starting and maintenance.

    I think the analogy DT uses is very valid and possibly a lesson for even DT here.
    I have tried the 27.5's and for much of the riding I do , it is a very tough sell.
    The angle of attack argument is very real for those that ride lots and lots of rocky rough trail, but that isn't what most riders I know ride, unless they are road trippin to get to a Mammoth or Downieville.
    They suffer in comparison to 26ers on every other comparison possible. Weight, strength, final gearing selections, you name it.
    If I ran the show. I would develop a new 5 Spot. Longer reach, lower BB, lower standover, 56/44 tapered HT and sell this shit out of that *****.
    26 is not dead, but the lying media is selling that story for sure.

  33. #33
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    For the record I HAVE a 2 stroke, but it is not as easy to ride as a 4 stroke. I 'get' the fun that a more nimble flickable playful blah blah blah is, I have had 250 4 strokes and 450 4 strokes and 125 and 250 2 strokes blah blah blah. BUT, the market QUIT buying 5 Spots when the Burner was introduced. When the 4 stroke came out you could buy a nice 250 smoker years after the production as the market quit buying them as well. YOU the buyers have spoken with your spending. Yes, KTM sells lots of 2 strokes but nothing compared to what the industry used to sell, nothing. 4 Strokes are easier to ride, 27.5 is easier to ride, and for most riders on most trails being able to ride the same terrain whatever it is with less mental and physical effort the better. The 'flow' trails that are being built here and there are a notable exception, the 26 will rule them forever. Cut the roots, dig out the rocks and build berms Voila! Instant fun on a 26" wheeled bike for almost everyone. But, how many miles are there of these type of trails compared to 'real' mountain biking? Nothing, hardly measurable.

    Chase, anytime you want to get into the bike business call Sherwood@Ventana or David @ Zen and have them build you up a couple hundred 26" wheeled beauties of your own sweet design. Or if you don't want to do that.... get 199 of your closest friends together and 'spec' a custom 5 Spot, I will gladly draw them up and have Zen weld them up. Deposits required of course! As for assuming what others are riding based on where you ride is just that, an assumption. I look carefully at the photos and videos that mtbr homers post and I see a freakin massive amount of rocks, trails that are solid rocks. Not the wimpy decomposed granite and clay based trails we ride so much here in California, but heavily featured rough terrain. That, is where bigger wheels have an advantage, rock after rock after rock. As for your statements about gearing and wheel strength? true enough, but that ain't keeping the 26" at the top of the shopping list on most of Ya'll.

    DT

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    For the record I HAVE a 2 stroke, but it is not as easy to ride as a 4 stroke. I 'get' the fun that a more nimble flickable playful blah blah blah is, I have had 250 4 strokes and 450 4 strokes and 125 and 250 2 strokes blah blah blah. BUT, the market QUIT buying 5 Spots when the Burner was introduced. When the 4 stroke came out you could buy a nice 250 smoker years after the production as the market quit buying them as well. YOU the buyers have spoken with your spending. Yes, KTM sells lots of 2 strokes but nothing compared to what the industry used to sell, nothing. 4 Strokes are easier to ride, 27.5 is easier to ride, and for most riders on most trails being able to ride the same terrain whatever it is with less mental and physical effort the better. The 'flow' trails that are being built here and there are a notable exception, the 26 will rule them forever. Cut the roots, dig out the rocks and build berms Voila! Instant fun on a 26" wheeled bike for almost everyone. But, how many miles are there of these type of trails compared to 'real' mountain biking? Nothing, hardly measurable.

    Chase, anytime you want to get into the bike business call Sherwood@Ventana or David @ Zen and have them build you up a couple hundred 26" wheeled beauties of your own sweet design. Or if you don't want to do that.... get 199 of your closest friends together and 'spec' a custom 5 Spot, I will gladly draw them up and have Zen weld them up. Deposits required of course! As for assuming what others are riding based on where you ride is just that, an assumption. I look carefully at the photos and videos that mtbr homers post and I see a freakin massive amount of rocks, trails that are solid rocks. Not the wimpy decomposed granite and clay based trails we ride so much here in California, but heavily featured rough terrain. That, is where bigger wheels have an advantage, rock after rock after rock. As for your statements about gearing and wheel strength? true enough, but that ain't keeping the 26" at the top of the shopping list on most of Ya'll.

    DT
    Strokers easier to ride? Maybe Dave. I've owned both types very recently as well. Terrain makes that argument I think, as well as riding styles. Especially if the discussion shifts from Moto/Desert to XC racing and trees as we have up here north of the Grapevine.
    Your points are well taken. I think we are coming from 2 different sides of this discussion which is interesting. Maybe me and the guys I ride with are all screwed up in our priorities?
    So are you really making the argument that 26" is only suitable for flow trails now?
    Really? Because the 3/8" radius difference is that important?
    I love me some Turnerbikes for sure as I got 4 of em. You even made me a custom one way BITD. As far as going elsewhere?Doubtful as your stuff is far superior IMO.

    But in analyzing my next upgrade and giving my enormously tall 13yo son my XL 13 Spot. I developed a list of +/- based on my riding and needs. Which fueled my rant. Another 5 Spot using the same numbers kind of seems boring when facing a $7K purcahse.
    Build me a new Spot with Burner style geo and a tapered HT and my Visa number will be in your system faster than I can type this email. Maybe the 5 Spot just needs to freshened up a bit? Not abandoned. I kinda like her but some bigger titties would be nice.

    As far as my dollars pushing this decision? Is it us asking for 27.5? or is it the industry/media pushing a new format to try and create a market that was maybe saturated,slowing down from economics and possibly at its peak of development?
    My opinion is it is more of the latter.
    In any objective analysis other than the small advantage of AofA of this wheel size the 26" wins hands down.
    If people really want to roll over shit then a 29er is the way to go I think, but you better be fit and lithe and be willing to live with the downsides.

    I may well jump on this 27.5 bandwagon being forced on me but I will not go quietly.

  35. #35
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    Bandaroo- I tried that on an older 5 spot but the geo was jacked up. I need to climb into that fork and shorten the travel to compensate and try it again. I really think the moto setup would be the ticket (for a host of reasons) if the geo was sorted out.
    But Hey. DT probably did that shit 5 years ago and killed it because it sucked and we just don't know.

  36. #36
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    Bandaroo-That seems like way to much work.
    I gotta think that 27.5 in front and shorten the Fox 36 to maybe 130mm might do it?

  37. #37
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    The media has definitely jumped on the 27.5 bandwagon, but it is ultimately the $'s we spend that determine what sticks around. 26 devotees are going to have to get used to having fewer and fewer options out there.

    It's pretty cool & interesting that the owner of a bike co. is discussing this stuff openly with us. Thanks DT!

  38. #38
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    If enough riders want 26'', all you have to do is vote with your wallet. Right now, bigger wheels are selling, 26 are not. Is this clear enough? Riders are wanting bigger wheels, it is not a industry wide conspiracy. I know you have a garage full of 26" equipment, MANY of you do. I know you need the lowest possible gearing, so a small wheel allows lower final gear. I know that you want the strongest wheels that are reasonably light, and 26'' does that. But this is not a personal attack on you Chase or anyone else out there with a shit load of 26" equipment forcing you to upgrade. I will try to be very clear in my next statement.

    The 5 Spot sales almost stopped when the Burner was introduced. I still have stock that was welded before that. IF there were any other small to midsize (Santa Cruz) companies as transparent as Turner Bikes, you would hear the same story. Bronson killed the Nomad etc.

  39. #39
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    Re: Website updated. No 5 spot on the list of bikes...

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    There are about 25 5 Spots left, just too few to take up the space or time in the new web site. The last of the 5 Spots are on sale, just call or email with size request.

    DT
    If I may ask, what is the sale price of the Spot?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasejj View Post
    If I ran the show. I would develop a new 5 Spot. Longer reach, lower BB, lower standover, 56/44 tapered HT and sell this shit out of that *****.
    26 is not dead, but the lying media is selling that story for sure.
    Also throw another 20-30mm of travel out back, slack it out slightly and call it an RFX. I went to a local enduro event a few weeks ago, 80% of the bikes where 26. I'm not seeing many people out on the trails with 27.5's yet, do people who buy these actually ride?

  41. #41
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    I've been riding Turners for almost 20 years. Current stable is a 2012 Spot, a new Burner, and a Czar. The Spot doesn't even begin to compare to the new bikes (for the type of riding I do). . . Is it the 26" wheels? Who cares? The new bikes rock, and it is time to move on. . .

    I can't even sell the used Spot because it has 26" wheels. No interest. Our local ski resort is building the countries longest "flow" trail for next summer, so maybe I can actually sell the Spot. . .

  42. #42
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    I've got some 215 gs skis that I'll sell you to go with your 26" wheel bike! Maybe some Killy style striped ski pants to round things out!

    Oh yeah, I have a garage full of old shit that was cutting edge in it's day. . . I had loads of fun riding old style skis and bikes, but all in all, the new stuff rocks!

    DT, keep developing the new stuff. Looking forward to a carbon Burner!

  43. #43
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    I have some killer 205 Volkl's that I won't ski anymore as well. Why? Because the new Super deep sidcut new stuff is wayyyyyy better in almost every way.

    27.5 is not wayyyyy better . I've ridden them both. In one quality they are slightly better, in many ways they are a step back IMO.

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    Dave- No personal attack was ever felt. Just a lively frank discussion.

    I also don't accuse you of conspiring to kill the 26 either. Guys gotta eat. I think many factors played out in a very short period and drove this issue. Some of it was survival, some technical advantages and design.

    But being an old fat bastard who is pretty keen on such things. I've seen this play out before. Old standard is proclaimed dead for rather weak reasons, but change for change sake made some people money.

    Prediction- 3 years from now we will see articles proclaiming a rebirth of 26" format for all the reasons I stated. Because it never should have been droppped.
    Then we will hear of a new Spot with tricked out new-think geo and parts spec., It will hailed as they next great thing because those old and slow/heavy 27.5 and 29ers just won't cut it anymore.
    Last edited by chasejj; 11-10-2013 at 08:15 PM.

  45. #45
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    My take is that the Burner is way better than the spot, but It could be due to the sum of all the other components just as much as the wheel size. Geometry, stiff rims and forks, new suspension, maybe even new paint!

  46. #46
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    No doubt the new Burner geo rocks!! I won't even argue it at all. I have not ridden an XL burner but years of riding many different Turners and other custom bikes I have designed and specified leaves me no doubts I would love the geo of the XL Burner w/o question.
    But for me the ideal would be a Burner with 26" wheels. I wonder how that would ride actually?
    DT- Anybody riding a Burner with 26ers? BB too low maybe? That would be a fun experiment for sure.

  47. #47
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    It's official ..... I am now a dinosaur! (Not a major revelation according to my kids)
    Instead of misprportioned upper limbs like T Rex I have really, really small wheels.

    04 Spot broke .... I was bereft, right up until I rode my 12 DW Spot.

    My next bike was going to be a Burner.
    Now it will be a .....................Burner!

    I imagine it will also be an eye-opener as to how MTBs keep getting better.

    Thanks DT,
    I am always impressed by the feedback we get from the company owner and designer on this forum.

    cheers from a Kiwi fan

  48. #48
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    I have a 4 stroke 350 and a 2 stroke 150, both KTM's. I would compare the 350 to the Sultan and the 150 more 2 the DW 26er Flux. Both are fun in their element. Looking forward to trying out a 650b flux. BTW, KTM has succeeded in expanding their marketshare and for the first time sold over 100000 units in 2012. E bikes, fun bikes, huge sales in India are contribute to a company that builds what the riders want.
    DT is not afraid to market different bikes, for instance the new Flux and Burner both made in the USA.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasejj View Post
    No doubt the new Burner geo rocks!! I won't even argue it at all. I have not ridden an XL burner but years of riding many different Turners and other custom bikes I have designed and specified leaves me no doubts I would love the geo of the XL Burner w/o question.
    But for me the ideal would be a Burner with 26" wheels. I wonder how that would ride actually?
    DT- Anybody riding a Burner with 26ers? BB too low maybe? That would be a fun experiment for sure.
    If one were to run the same model of tire, 26" wheels would drop the Burner BB by 1/2", but you'd be carrying around extra-long chainstays (by 26" standards) for no good reason.
    Supply Side Jesusnonomist

  50. #50
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    Juan! Brilliant.
    DT can just swap a the Burner CS for a dusty set of old 2013 Spot stays. Nobody want them anyway and voila! 26" badass Spot with a longass front-center just like I likes it.
    Something tells me DW messed with the kinematics/pivot locations though.

  51. #51
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    Website updated. No 5 spot on the list of bikes...

    I have 3 26" bikes in the garage (make that 8 if you count the wife's and kid's). Until today, I really had little interest in 27.5" bikes. What changed that? I took a friend and his son with me and my son to Snow Summit before they closed for the year. He rented a Giant Trance 3 (they were out of Glory's) which happened to be a 2014 in 27.5. About halfway down the first run, i had him switch to my Norco Shore because he doesn't ride much and was having issues with the trail chatter and small rockgardens. I ended up on the trance the rest of the day.

    I'm sold. That bike felt really good. It felt like more than 140mm of travel, pedaled like far less travel, and carved wonderfully. While not much different from a 26" in wheel size, the lowering of the bottom bracket relative to the axels seems to make a huge difference. Call me sold. How much are the demo burners?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

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    Economics, guys. DT is running a business, not a charity. Having recently purchased and updated a '11 Spot a few months ago, I felt a bit of sadness learning the Spot is out of the line up --- but then I realized, no point in feeling bad!
    26' 27.5' 29' all have pros and cons... And is there really one-bike to conquer all...? Hahaha! DT not continuing with the Spot -- Though sad for not so rational reasons -- just allows us to continue enjoying Turner products for a loooooong time 'cos he stays in business. And to me, that's what counts...
    In the mean time, I'll continue to enjoy my weekend dilemma of deciding whether to ride my '11 Spot or '11 Sultan. Yahoooooooooo!

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12snap View Post
    The demo bikes are for sale. They just don't have them listed on the website yet. I know because I asked a few weeks ago. Just call or email them.
    Huh. Greg said check back after the first of the year....

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    The only change that is certain is to spodes' net worth. Otherwise, it'll be the same old shit.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  55. #55
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    Are there replacement swing arms still available for the 5 spots? If so, how long will they be kept "in stock"?

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    I might be way off here but, could it be that people buying new bikes at the time want to try out the 27,5", so most new sales will be a 27,5", once the markets demand is met and people have more experience and tested more the 26 might bounce back a bit.
    I was trading out my old bike because i was not a fan, loving my DHR i got the burner a bit just to try 27,5.. for all i know it might suck with the bigger wheels and my next one will then a 26" again. Dont think its very likely but i suspect some people will head back again in 1-2years simply because they did not like it but wanted to test.

    Might be a market for the 5spot again.. just not now.
    How large a batch would you need to justify making another 5spot batch? Or would you then rather make an updated 5spot?

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    Adakar-I am totally with you on this and think your are right friggin" on the money.
    But going further. Update/freshen up the Spot in limited numbers and they will trickle out until the market swings back.

  58. #58
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    Bottom line, when Turner or anyone else introduced their new 27.5 bikes, they did not obsolete the 26" bikes, especially the ones we already own and ride. My Spot didn't instantaneously rot or become dangerous or have a timer set that will cause it to self destruct. All Turner did was continue to evolve trail and race bikes because my figuring is: 1) He likes riding and wants to build newer/better when the available technology allows it 2) He has to produce things that will sell because yes, he does have to keep the company alive and keep putting meals on the table. As Dave told me when I was visiting, he said he makes toys for us adults. My opinion is he hopes we are interested in buying the toys. In the end, there's nothing wrong with the old bikes, they're still great. However, riding the Flux 27.5, Burner side by side with my Spot, I can say that the bigger wheels do make a noticeable difference. Worth the $$ in difference? Only you can decide that.

  59. #59
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    Sad times for mountain biking. Recent poll on Pinkbike asked " if you had to choose one wheel size, decision would be final, what would it be?" 4:1 in favour of 26". 4000 votes for 26, 2000 for 27.5, 500 for 29. I ride a 5 spot and had many Turner bikes including the Rail, DHR, Highlines and my favourite of all my 26" wheeled 5 Spot. I am 5' 7" and ride a small 5 spot. Big wheels are not an option for me. I would like to thank Dave Turner for the wonderful bikes and support over the years. It will be very hard looking at other brands for a new bike as I am the "Turner" guy around here. Don't see a lot of them in BC. I see there are a few left at Turnerbikes but this is my slow time of the year work wise. If it is still there in a couple months when thing pick up I will buy. Will never ride a big wheeled bike.

  60. #60
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    Re: Website updated. No 5 spot on the list of bikes...

    Quote Originally Posted by bross View Post
    Sad times for mountain biking. Recent poll on Pinkbike asked " if you had to choose one wheel size, decision would be final, what would it be?" 4:1 in favour of 26". 4000 votes for 26, 2000 for 27.5, 500 for 29. I ride a 5 spot and had many Turner bikes including the Rail, DHR, Highlines and my favourite of all my 26" wheeled 5 Spot. I am 5' 7" and ride a small 5 spot. Big wheels are not an option for me. I would like to thank Dave Turner for the wonderful bikes and support over the years. It will be very hard looking at other brands for a new bike as I am the "Turner" guy around here. Don't see a lot of them in BC. I see there are a few left at Turnerbikes but this is my slow time of the year work wise. If it is still there in a couple months when thing pick up I will buy. Will never ride a big wheeled bike.
    Do not forget that most of those participated in the poll have never ridden a 27.5. Of course they would not vote for it...
    Give it another year, it will change.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by bross View Post
    4:1 in favour of 26". 4000 votes for 26, 2000 for 27.5
    Gotta love Pinkbike; doodling dirt jumps during math class?

    After braving the comments section there on a few occasions, that's actually a much more impressive showing for 27.5 than I would have expected.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e View Post
    Gotta love Pinkbike; doodling dirt jumps during math class?

    After braving the comments section there on a few occasions, that's actually a much more impressive showing for 27.5 than I would have expected.
    Your right about Pinkbike. Coil overs,26" and anything Canadian rules over there.

    But I've ridden 27.5 and voted for 26".

    Mark these words. 26" is not over. I firmly believe the difference is not enough to justify a long term market shift. 26" and 29" are clear and distinct differences that fall into different camps entirely. This 27.5 push is not market driven , it is marketing driven.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasejj View Post
    Your right about Pinkbike. Coil overs,26" and anything Canadian rules over there.

    But I've ridden 27.5 and voted for 26".

    Mark these words. 26" is not over. I firmly believe the difference is not enough to justify a long term market shift. 26" and 29" are clear and distinct differences that fall into different camps entirely. This 27.5 push is not market driven , it is marketing driven.
    Seeing as how what is available to the the consumer is a year or two behind manufacturer development, then bike companies are already planning for the resurgence of 26" wheels?
    Last edited by juan_speeder; 11-16-2013 at 09:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    Seeing as how what is available to the the consumer is a year or two behind manufacturer development, then bike companies are already planning for the resurgence of 26" wheels?
    26" wheeled bikes right now.
    It will be a niche, like 29ers are. 27.5's may be the the majority, but it is by force. The 26 devotees will always be there in varying numbers. The vast majority of bicyclist's will just accept and follow what is hyped and marketed to them like they do in most markets. All the company's depend on this.
    Funny because cycling as far back as the 80's was very conservative in it's accepance of new tech. MTB's flipped that on its head.

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    "Your right about Pinkbike. Coil overs,26" and anything Canadian rules over there."

    Too funny, if I could find a coil over that would fit a small 5 Spot I would be all over it. Coil shocks can be worth the weight penalty.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bross View Post
    Big wheels are not an option for me.
    bross, I used to feel the same way, small rider, never interested in big wheels, RFX, DHR, Highline owner. I do trust DT's bike design skills and know that he is not marketing driven so I figured why not try something new and different. I've been riding the Burner most of this year and find that I do enjoy it. It's is considerably different than my 26" bikes in more than just the wheel size and I am noticing an increase in speed both uphill and down. Yes there is some handling trade offs, mostly air time related that I addressed with some skatepark time. My priority however has been speed and stability not tricks.

    I am definitely not going around telling everyone it's the greatest thing, it's different, it's good, and I still have a full range of 26" bikes I can ride. It is a viable option, but I do understand that the additional financial burden with a new wheel size is too great for many people. Good thing is that you can count on the old Turners living a long productive life.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck View Post
    It is a viable option, but I do understand that the additional financial burden with a new wheel size is too great for many people.

    to do it right, besides a new frame, a fork, & rims to use even w/ tearing down 26" wheels to use the hub w/ new spokes is upwards of $4000. not to mention if you've customized your fork & shock! so yeah, i'm in that too much to justify boat. when my 26"er breaks is when i'll step up, maybe.
    breezy shade

  68. #68
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    If I wanted to replace my 5Spot, what Turner would be the best choice? The Burner I suppose but what about the Sultan? Some bike manufacturer sites have a comparison table which illustrates an idiots guide to which bike to get based on your riding preference but I don't see anything like this on the Turner site. I guess I could derive all this from geometry specs and try to estimate the wheel size difference impact, but I'm not that bright.
    A bunch of my ride pics: http://uberfarm.com/mnf

  69. #69
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    I would hazard to say if you're more of an all mountain/free ride/jump anything possible kind of rider go Burner. If you're an XC/smooth trail/keep the wheels close to the ground type go Sultan.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackFromNC View Post
    If I wanted to replace my 5Spot, what Turner would be the best choice? The Burner I suppose but what about the Sultan? Some bike manufacturer sites have a comparison table which illustrates an idiots guide to which bike to get based on your riding preference but I don't see anything like this on the Turner site. I guess I could derive all this from geometry specs and try to estimate the wheel size difference impact, but I'm not that bright.
    Based on my experience from recent demo rides, if you're into flying through the air, big drops than the Burner. If you're into cranking through trails, up and down, everything from smooth to rocky, technical, rooted, then the Flux. I own a Spot and can say the Flux is a capable trail bike. It hauls the mail going up and down rocky, rooted, stair step climbs and drops.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasejj View Post
    It will be a niche, like 29ers are. 27.5's may be the the majority, but it is by force. The 26 devotees will always be there in varying numbers. The vast majority of bicyclist's will just accept and follow what is hyped and marketed to them like they do in most markets. All the company's depend on this.
    Funny because cycling as far back as the 80's was very conservative in it's accepance of new tech. MTB's flipped that on its head.
    Come again? Been to a bike shop lately?

    Also, by force?? Shirley you aren't serious.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rider View Post
    Are there replacement swing arms still available for the 5 spots? If so, how long will they be kept "in stock"?
    ???

  73. #73
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    199 bikes for custom order! Sweet! Who is with me for a 69er order? Just kidding

  74. #74
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    It is low. Your son must be excited. Looks good!

  75. #75
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    How long are the crank arms?

  76. #76
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    I got 170mm FSA v-drives. I could swap you if you want. They look good solid black. The ones we put on the NS surge

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    If enough riders want 26'', all you have to do is vote with your wallet. Right now, bigger wheels are selling, 26 are not. Is this clear enough? Riders are wanting bigger wheels, it is not a industry wide conspiracy. I know you have a garage full of 26" equipment, MANY of you do. I know you need the lowest possible gearing, so a small wheel allows lower final gear. I know that you want the strongest wheels that are reasonably light, and 26'' does that. But this is not a personal attack on you Chase or anyone else out there with a shit load of 26" equipment forcing you to upgrade. I will try to be very clear in my next statement.

    The 5 Spot sales almost stopped when the Burner was introduced. I still have stock that was welded before that. IF there were any other small to midsize (Santa Cruz) companies as transparent as Turner Bikes, you would hear the same story. Bronson killed the Nomad etc.
    I started with the XCE. When I cracked the front tri, I bought a Spot front tri and officially had an '03 Spot. Later bought a newer Spot, just before the Horst Link disappeared. In '12, I bought a DW Spot and new components with it. If the Burner is next in evolution, I'll buy it with the applicable components when my '12 reaches its end. In the mean time, I'm still livin' my Spot...

    I'd like to see a Turner Road Frame & Fork incorporating discs and a few other new ideas other mfrs are too steeped in tradition to consider. My Lightspeed is getting a little long in the tooth. I ride the road in the off season and would be brand loyal there too.

  78. #78
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    Ok, had I know last year when Turner was replacing my broken TNT Flux with a Spot that they were getting ready to change wheel sizes I might have waited. But then again, I did not really have a bike to ride so it was an easy choice. My spot is brilliant and badass. Super predictable and super fun. Best bike I have ever owned, and I have no regrets. Long live the SPOT!

  79. #79
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    Folks who still prefer a 26" wheel over 27.5" or 29" should be stoked that the industry is moving away from 26". Why? Because you can pick up a new ride or upgrade parts (shock, wheels) for cheap, and prices are only going to keep dropping. The whole shift to larger wheels is akin to the ski industry move to fat skis many years ago.

    All good things eventually must come to an end. I had 7 great years on my '05 HL Spot. The only reason I sold it last year was because I demoed Sultan.

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    I would disagree with the ski analogy.

    1) Traditional sidecuts remained available for years for the racers who liked them.
    2) Deep Sidecut skis were a tremendous advantage to the mass of skiers who purchase skis.

    27.5 is not a tremendous advantage to anyone by any objective format and cannot compare with either 26 or 29 on the key points. This is why it seems like marketing and hype or a questionable compromise.

    As I stated previously in this discussion, I will probably end up on a 27.5. But not because I think it is better, but because DT has decided to not support the 26 format and develop any new stuff using it which annoys the shit out of me.

    Maybe he will make a CF 6" travel 27.5 (call it The Badass) bike with some new DW tweaks to address some of the old annoyances on the Spots. I am tapping my toes waiting.

    With my luck it will be single chainring only. Which will also suck.

  81. #81
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    No 26 means you lose my business.
    The end.
    Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

  82. #82
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    Your profile says you ride a Titus, so what "business" is Turner losing again?

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    I ride a DW 5-spot.
    Duh? Future frame purchases.
    Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

  84. #84
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    Re: Website updated. No 5 spot on the list of bikes...

    Quote Originally Posted by chasejj View Post
    I would disagree with the ski analogy.

    1) Traditional sidecuts remained available for years for the racers who liked them.
    2) Deep Sidecut skis were a tremendous advantage to the mass of skiers who purchase skis.

    27.5 is not a tremendous advantage to anyone by any objective format and cannot compare with either 26 or 29 on the key points. This is why it seems like marketing and hype or a questionable compromise.

    As I stated previously in this discussion, I will probably end up on a 27.5. But not because I think it is better, but because DT has decided to not support the 26 format and develop any new stuff using it which annoys the shit out of me.

    Maybe he will make a CF 6" travel 27.5 (call it The Badass) bike with some new DW tweaks to address some of the old annoyances on the Spots. I am tapping my toes waiting.

    With my luck it will be single chainring only. Which will also suck.
    You cannot continue supporting a dying format only few wants to keep buying.
    Turner made the decision based on sales numbers, not because he tries to push some new format...

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    You cannot continue supporting a dying format only few wants to keep buying.
    Dying in large part due to marketing hype (think Obama 2008) and availability. If I had planned on buying a new bike or frame this fall or upcoming spring I would be all but forces to buy a 27.5 due to lack of 26 options. The differences in performance do not merit the change, the differences are too small/sutle. If it ain't broke....

  86. #86
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    Re: Website updated. No 5 spot on the list of bikes...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1rider View Post
    Dying in large part due to marketing hype (think Obama 2008) and availability. If I had planned on buying a new bike or frame this fall or upcoming spring I would be all but forces to buy a 27.5 due to lack of 26 options. The differences in performance do not merit the change, the differences are too small/sutle. If it ain't broke....
    Turner still has about 20-30 5 Spots left, so whoever wants to get one now, can get one with a discount...
    Turner mentioned "since the introduction of the Burner and Flux the sales of 5 Spot have been dramatically down" He basically can't be producing something which will not sell.
    But he will custom make any bike if there is at least 200 of them on order. So here is another option for the future.
    I sympathize with 26" riders and agree there is a significant cost of switching to 650b, but the market speaks for itself, and it wants 660b, not 26".
    The initial push was done by 650b enthusiasts who started converting their bikes more then 2 years ago.
    Bike companies were reluctant to do the change in the beginning, some even spoke against it and questioned the need for the 27.5". But the interest was already there and they couldn't ignore it anymore. Many of them did not want to miss the train like they did with 29"...

    I own a converted 650b SC TRc and love it. I have also owned 26" bikes and still have some nice carbon 26" wheels which do not see too much use lately.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rider View Post
    Dying in large part due to marketing hype (think Obama 2008) and availability. If I had planned on buying a new bike or frame this fall or upcoming spring I would be all but forces to buy a 27.5 due to lack of 26 options. The differences in performance do not merit the change, the differences are too small/sutle. If it ain't broke....
    Impeccably stated. The Obama anology was one I wanted to use many posts ago but backed off to stay apolitical in this.


    It is the wave of BS the industry is driving and in my mind DT is trapped in it. I get it, Burner/Flux are selling very well. I love the new geo. I can tell that before even riding one. But you could do a similar tweak of geo to a Spot and continue sales (if you had the capacity and capital), and all us 26 homers would be happy. When spending the money on a frivolous purchase such as a MTB, compromises on my wheel size is not a choice I want to make.

    Look the 26" wheel offers many benefits to those on the fringes of cycling spec that do not always get discussed.
    1) Better gearing for those that are less than fit and climb a lot. Uhhh me.
    2) Stronger for those that are well into the Clyde category(me), or huck over drops.
    3) Lighter- because that is always good and makes them feel poppy and fun.
    4) A legacy of bikes for guys like me with MTBers in the family. I can always trade wheels, tires, gears etc between bikes as needed.
    5) Gearing choices in the industry are becoming far to focused on the competitive rider leaving few choices for the masses who still have to climb to earn their DH to the parking lot and larger wheels make this worse, not better.
    6) Big guys who bomb the descents and are hard on brakes like 36mmx20mm forks. Not much of a good selection in 27.5 and 29ers in this area. Xfusion Metric and Vengeance are pretty much it. No high end Fox FIT or RS Pike fits this wheelsize category. I have to correct my steering as it pulls to one side when on the brakes hard on downhills (fork legs twisting) with my 203 rotors. I don't think 34mmx15mm format forks are going to be better in this regard.
    I run a 32/22 XTR double on my Spot which is not a easily sourced way to go to get it all to work properly. But offers excellent gearing w/o needing a $450 11 spd (XX1)cassette which is a high wear item. WTF is SRAM thinking?
    The decision to discontinue 26ers/Spot as a category has me shopping for alternatives (longer TT/lower BB/56/44 HT being my main drivers) which bums me out, because I don't want to consider other brands or linkage formats and at the same time I really do not feel a 27.5 or 29er is the best option for ME.

    Capitalism is billions/trillions of decisions being made simultaneously on a daily basis in each individual's own self interest which drives the the marketplace where it should be. I am not the only one who has these concerns which is obvious by the posts, I've read.
    So anYeti SB66C now or wait for another year may be all I got at this point and that is not an easy decision.

  88. #88
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    wow. Are you guys reading what David Turner is saying?

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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck View Post
    wow. Are you guys reading what David Turner is saying?
    Not sure I understand your point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chasejj View Post
    Not sure I understand your point?
    Lack of sales killed the 5 Spot and the Flux before it. That's what DT said.

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    DT is as honest and transparent as they get. The mtb market is so over saturated with product, old and new, and there is tremendous risk involved in every decision he makes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck View Post
    DT is as honest and transparent as they get. The mtb market is so over saturated with product, old and new, and there is tremendous risk involved in every decision he makes.
    I really have to stop responding to this thread.

    But I hold DT in such esteem I have to chime in and agree with what you say 100%. He is an icon of truth and honesty and upmost honor with his stand about USA made products. He is one of the only 2 people in this business which I respect when it comes to bike design(DW being the other).
    I don't always agree with every Turner design detail, but I have several of his bikes and they really hold up better and outperform any other brand.

  93. #93
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    Im just going to add a completely random .02 to this debate. I am not sure if we are looking to next year to be the time of the 27.5 wheeled bike, but judging from what I saw on the trails this year (when there were definitely 27.5 wheeled bikes available), Im not sure who is buying them? I saw a total of ONE, yes one 27.5 wheeled bike during this seasons riding around Squamish, Whistler, Pemberton, the Chilcotins, Vancouver Island, Oregon and Washington.
    I am sure there will be more next year, as the buyers hand will be forced into the 27.5 wheel if they want a new bike from most manufacturers.
    Again, this is just my observation, and I am just putting it out there as food for thought.

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    Re: Website updated. No 5 spot on the list of bikes...


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    With all due respect Jazz- That is article is pure unadulterated horseshit.

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    +1 to that.

  97. #97
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    Re: Website updated. No 5 spot on the list of bikes...

    Quote Originally Posted by chasejj View Post
    With all due respect Jazz- That is article is pure unadulterated horseshit.
    yup you are right to some extent about the article... But my point was to show the current trend. There is only few 27.5 bikes on trail in comparison to 26 or 29 these days. But there are more riders planing to get a 27.5 then 26 in the future.
    The graphs also describe that people are more inclined to get a 27.5 after they have tried it.
    On the other side there are more riders against 27.5 among those who have never ridden one...
    Let me ask you guys, have you at least try a 650b?

  98. #98
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    Ummm more riders will HAVE to get a 27.5 bike, as 26 is no longer offered by many manufacturers.
    I have taken one for a spin on some tame pathways, but not for a real test. The only way I think a fair assesment can be made is to have the same model in both 26 and 27.5 sizes. I am not 'against' 27.5 at all, I was just stating my observations of what I had seen on the trails this past season.

  99. #99
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    Re: Website updated. No 5 spot on the list of bikes...

    I agree there will be some riders who will HAVE to get a 27.5, but there will be more of those who will WANT to have one.
    For those who still want a 26er, the options are going to be limited, but as long as there is a 26" market, there will be options.
    BTW, this is the best time to stock on 26er stuff, lots of sales everywhere... Wheels, bikes, tires, forks dirt cheap all over the interwebz :thumbup:

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Im just going to add a completely random .02 to this debate. I am not sure if we are looking to next year to be the time of the 27.5 wheeled bike, but judging from what I saw on the trails this year (when there were definitely 27.5 wheeled bikes available), Im not sure who is buying them? I saw a total of ONE, yes one 27.5 wheeled bike during this seasons riding around Squamish, Whistler, Pemberton, the Chilcotins, Vancouver Island, Oregon and Washington.
    I am sure there will be more next year, as the buyers hand will be forced into the 27.5 wheel if they want a new bike from most manufacturers.
    Again, this is just my observation, and I am just putting it out there as food for thought.
    It kind of felt the same for 29ers for the first couple of years too.

    If the supply of 26ers is dropping as fast as predicted, I think that the level and speed of change will slow too (for 26). I guess I anticipate 26" innovation to fall off as the sales decrease. It could pick up when things have settled a couple of years from now and supply has balanced against demand but it could be a strong justification for people to pick up a 26" frame now because not only will the availability (other than used) diminish rapidly but with potentially stagnant innovation for them, three years from now you will still have the top 26" ride.

    Oddly enough I still have a brand new 2010 Flux frame that I never built up but was reluctant to part with. Clearly it's going to make me millions a couple of years from now...

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