Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    ... I guess you won't be
    Reputation: jokermtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,925

    upsidedown romic

    I don't get it - turner puts the romic shock on my new spot upsidedown. The sticker is upsidedown! I heard they do this so the shock damper body is low/close to the bb for lower center of gravity. But, come on - all I can see is that in it's upsidedown position, mud and grunge will just collect on top of the damper body/shock shaft area. I promptly flipped my shock so the sticker is readable. I may have a higher cg, but I wont have a mud collector shelf. Turner has been wrong before [1999 burner front derailleur cable hole thru the rocker shock mount area - cable wears a groove in the aluminum] so I was wondering if anyone else flipped their shock. So far [6 months counting], no problems whatsoever.

  2. #2
    ... I guess you won't be
    Reputation: jokermtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,925
    yeah, I suppose out west in the desert its OK. But in the wet goober forests of michigan in the soggy springtime, mud is a constant! I believe romics have a nitrogen charge to keep the oil from foaming, so shock orientation may or may not be important.....cant verify.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    916

    its "right side up" on my ventana...

    you should be ok right side up on your turner.

    -Sp

    Quote Originally Posted by steve3
    I often wondered what effect this would have on the internals of the shock, particularly the fluids. If you look at it like this, the piston rod is the only moving portion if it's upside down. If you flip it over, the damper is now movable and can perhaps allow foaming to persist and damping issues, regardless of how slight. My Tomac was delievered with the shock "backwards". if you look at the similar Racer X, the damper/shock shaft is tied to the seatstay and it moves, where the air chamber is stationary. Tomac made the damper stationary and the air chamber is the thing that moves.

    However, the entire bike and shock moves while you're riding, so that factor probably means nothing, anyway.

    Flipped over, probably the slight CG change is the idea here. Shows how serious DT is if it were the case. Follow his philosophy because he knows what he's doing, I guess.

  4. #4
    The Ancient One
    Reputation: Steve from JH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,573

    There's another reason

    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    I don't get it - turner puts the romic shock on my new spot upsidedown. The sticker is upsidedown! I heard they do this so the shock damper body is low/close to the bb for lower center of gravity. But, come on - all I can see is that in it's upsidedown position, mud and grunge will just collect on top of the damper body/shock shaft area. I promptly flipped my shock so the sticker is readable. I may have a higher cg, but I wont have a mud collector shelf. Turner has been wrong before [1999 burner front derailleur cable hole thru the rocker shock mount area - cable wears a groove in the aluminum] so I was wondering if anyone else flipped their shock. So far [6 months counting], no problems whatsoever.
    Someone posted on MTBR a while back that Romic had told them the shock was best run "upside down"--that is with the compression knob on the bottom. The reason was that if an air bubble forms in the oil, you want it to float up away from the reactor valve, which is at the end of the damper where the compression knob is.

    Since I heard that I have run mine upside down on my Truth. The drawback is that it's harder to reach the compression knob when riding. If I want to readjust it--something I seldom do--I have to stop or practically stop the bike.

  5. #5
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,056

    Niggles and such

    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    I don't get it - turner puts the romic shock on my new spot upsidedown. The sticker is upsidedown! I heard they do this so the shock damper body is low/close to the bb for lower center of gravity. But, come on - all I can see is that in it's upsidedown position, mud and grunge will just collect on top of the damper body/shock shaft area. I promptly flipped my shock so the sticker is readable. I may have a higher cg, but I wont have a mud collector shelf. Turner has been wrong before [1999 burner front derailleur cable hole thru the rocker shock mount area - cable wears a groove in the aluminum] so I was wondering if anyone else flipped their shock. So far [6 months counting], no problems whatsoever.
    I've heard people having the shock oriented either way. What's more I've heard the sticker was oriented either way as well.

    FWIW my 'Spot came with the damper end on the bottom. I'd imagine if it really was a big deal, Romic would have mentioned it in their manual. Consider on some bikes, the Romic is nearly horizontal and plenty of other other bikes have the 5th E mounted a variety of ways.

    If it's really something you want a definative answer on, I'd suppose you'd have to call Turner AND Romic to get their perspectives....I'd start with Romic, but I've found it easer to get someone from Turner on the line.

    As for the mud/dust issue, considering the relatively tiny surface area around the diameter of the piston shaft (compared with a fork stanchion for example) coupled with a partial covering by the spring, and a partial covering by the seat tube, Is it really a big deal which way it sits? If someone's riding conditions were to cake-up a shock with mud and such, a shock boot would be many times more effective than flipping the shock's orientation.

    Maybe from a purely theoretical standpoint having the damper on the bottom, lowers the CG, and reduces the moving mass inertial from the suspension system, but I would imagine at this point, on a 5" travel bike, with a platform shock, it wouldn't make that big a deal either.

    JMO
    Countdown to Whistler 2012...
    July can't come fast enough!

  6. #6
    Baked Alaskan
    Reputation: AK Chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,813

    easy solution to crud on the shock

    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    I don't get it - turner puts the romic shock on my new spot upsidedown. The sticker is upsidedown! I heard they do this so the shock damper body is low/close to the bb for lower center of gravity. But, come on - all I can see is that in it's upsidedown position, mud and grunge will just collect on top of the damper body/shock shaft area. I promptly flipped my shock so the sticker is readable. I may have a higher cg, but I wont have a mud collector shelf. .

    Why not just slide a piece of tube over the shock or if you wanna spend some of your hard earned cash, buy the lizard skin thing? Then your shock is always sparkly clean.

    BTW... I like the idea, even if its all in my head, of a lower center of gravity with the damper part down low.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    452

    I don't buy the COG thing

    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    I don't get it - turner puts the romic shock on my new spot upsidedown. The sticker is upsidedown! I heard they do this so the shock damper body is low/close to the bb for lower center of gravity. But, come on - all I can see is that in it's upsidedown position, mud and grunge will just collect on top of the damper body/shock shaft area. I promptly flipped my shock so the sticker is readable. I may have a higher cg, but I wont have a mud collector shelf. Turner has been wrong before [1999 burner front derailleur cable hole thru the rocker shock mount area - cable wears a groove in the aluminum] so I was wondering if anyone else flipped their shock. So far [6 months counting], no problems whatsoever.
    Give me a break. Lower center of gravity? Are they kidding? I'd be surprised if it was even measurable. The center of gravity of the shock will change by a couple of inches if you flip it over, but the center of gravity of the bike with a rider will change so little that it's a total non-issue.

    A change in seat height of as little as 1/8 inch will affect the COG more than the shock orientation.

  8. #8
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,056
    Quote Originally Posted by AK Chris
    Why not just slide a piece of tube over the shock or if you wanna spend some of your hard earned cash, buy the lizard skin thing? Then your shock is always sparkly clean.
    But then there's the ppl who will question the added weight and stiction...Bwahahah!


    Quote Originally Posted by AK Chris
    I like the idea, even if its all in my head, of a lower center of gravity with the damper part down low.
    I concur... even though it probably makes no difference it seems more sensible to have the business end fixed and the shaft do the moving. But then on cars and trucks it's often the other way around.

    Oh heck, what do I care? This will weekend be the first time I've seen a trail since last fall!
    Countdown to Whistler 2012...
    July can't come fast enough!

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    916

    semi thread hijack

    Sorry for the semi thread hijacking but I assume it can be useful/verified with regard to this thread.

    On my ventana, when I push down and release the rear suspension (not on the bike), as the shock rebounds its really smooth till like the last 1/4-3/8" of stroke where the rebound ramps up noticeably and makes an audible sucking sound. Anyone notice this? Shock is mounted "right side up" on the ventana.

    thanks,

    -Sp



    Quote Originally Posted by Steve from JH
    Someone posted on MTBR a while back that Romic had told them the shock was best run "upside down"--that is with the compression knob on the bottom. The reason was that if an air bubble forms in the oil, you want it to float up away from the reactor valve, which is at the end of the damper where the compression knob is.

    Since I heard that I have run mine upside down on my Truth. The drawback is that it's harder to reach the compression knob when riding. If I want to readjust it--something I seldom do--I have to stop or practically stop the bike.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    490
    Quote Originally Posted by WarrGuru
    Give me a break. Lower center of gravity? Are they kidding? I'd be surprised if it was even measurable. The center of gravity of the shock will change by a couple of inches if you flip it over, but the center of gravity of the bike with a rider will change so little that it's a total non-issue.

    A change in seat height of as little as 1/8 inch will affect the COG more than the shock orientation.

    Why does that sound so bizarre? Placing the shock low of the bike is an important design consideration amount DH bike manufacturers anyway (demo 9, Ventana/Go-ride what-ever-its-name-is, Nicolai M-pire, etc.).

    moving a pound of weight from the rear of your bike to the fork. Do you think you'd feel that?

  11. #11
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,056
    Quote Originally Posted by steve3
    ...
    It could also just be personal preference of DT to mount them upside down.
    Someone help me on this, I'm lost...WHICH way is upside down?

    It sounds like jkrmtb's has the damper on the bottom but the stickers are upsided down... from what I've seen most of the Turners have the damper on the bottom, but the stickers are oriented such that they are right side up in that configuration.

    I have no idea if Turner puts the stickers on the shocks, but mine arrived with the damper bolted to the BB, and the lable was right side up.


    .....not that it would make any difference.....

    Peel the sticker off and turn it over if you want to keep the damper side down.

    BTW how does the bike ride?
    Countdown to Whistler 2012...
    July can't come fast enough!

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    452
    Quote Originally Posted by incubus
    Why does that sound so bizarre?
    Do the math. COG is the same as the center of mass. Flipping the shock right side up moves the COM of the shock upwards about 1- 2" or so. If the shock weighs 2 pounds and the bike weighs 30 pounds, then you be moving the COM upwards about 2/15 of an inch (I'm over-simplifying here to make a point). That's not very much.

    Add a 175 pound rider to the COM equation and you get 2/(175+30) or approximately 0.01" shift in COM. I defy anyone to tell me they can tell a difference of one hundredth of an inch in a bikes COM.



    Quote Originally Posted by incubus
    Placing the shock low of the bike is an important design consideration amount DH bike manufacturers anyway (demo 9, Ventana/Go-ride what-ever-its-name-is, Nicolai M-pire, etc.).

    moving a pound of weight from the rear of your bike to the fork. Do you think you'd feel that?
    Moving weight front to rear will probably have a more significant effect, especially when airborne.
    Seriously......Do you actually believe that anyone could tell whether the bike they were riding had the shock right side up or upside down? In a double blind test, there is no way you could tell the difference. This is "Princess and the Pea" material.

  13. #13
    wait a minute....
    Reputation: SIGMA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    218

    Upside Down

    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    I don't get it - turner puts the romic shock on my new spot upsidedown. The sticker is upsidedown! I heard they do this so the shock damper body is low/close to the bb for lower center of gravity. But, come on - all I can see is that in it's upsidedown position, mud and grunge will just collect on top of the damper body/shock shaft area. I promptly flipped my shock so the sticker is readable. I may have a higher cg, but I wont have a mud collector shelf. Turner has been wrong before [1999 burner front derailleur cable hole thru the rocker shock mount area - cable wears a groove in the aluminum] so I was wondering if anyone else flipped their shock. So far [6 months counting], no problems whatsoever.

    I DONT THINKS MATTERS. TURNER MOUNTS THEM ONE WAY,ELLSWORTH MOUNTS THEM THE OTHER.

  14. #14
    DGC
    DGC is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DGC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,341

    *** on you guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Someone help me on this, I'm lost...WHICH way is upside down?

    It sounds like jkrmtb's has the damper on the bottom but the stickers are upsided down... from what I've seen most of the Turners have the damper on the bottom, but the stickers are oriented such that they are right side up in that configuration.

    I have no idea if Turner puts the stickers on the shocks, but mine arrived with the damper bolted to the BB, and the lable was right side up.


    .....not that it would make any difference.....

    Peel the sticker off and turn it over if you want to keep the damper side down.

    BTW how does the bike ride?
    The rebound knob on top or damper end down is the prefered way, and yes it makes a difference to those who can tell, it is noticeable, but very very slight in a non race situation riding a trail bike. You can run it anyway you want to run it, so whatever you like will work but some companies put the shock in the direction it fits best or only fits for some bikes. Romic had sent a bunch out with stickers upside down, no biggie.

  15. #15
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,056
    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    The rebound knob on top or damper end down is the prefered way, and yes it makes a difference to those who can tell, it is noticeable, but very very slight in a non race situation riding a trail bike. You can run it anyway you want to run it, so whatever you like will work but some companies put the shock in the direction it fits best or only fits for some bikes. Romic had sent a bunch out with stickers upside down, no biggie.
    FWIW I just rode with a pal who owns a '04 Truth. His has the damper on the top, The stickers on that particular shock are right side up in that config.

    Racing pref eh? Something I'll rarely if ever have to worry about!

    Tnx.
    Countdown to Whistler 2012...
    July can't come fast enough!

  16. #16
    wait a minute....
    Reputation: SIGMA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    218
    Quote Originally Posted by sigma
    i Dont Thinks Matters. Turner Mounts Them One Way,ellsworth Mounts Them The Other.
    Go To Romicmfg.com And They Show Them Made Both Ways,like On My 5 Spot(upside Down) And Like On An Ellsworth(right Side Up) And The Stickers Are Placed On Each Shock Accordingly.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    490
    Quote Originally Posted by WarrGuru
    Do the math. blah, blah, blah, Seriously......Do you actually believe that anyone could tell whether the bike they were riding had the shock right side up or upside down? In a double blind test, there is no way you could tell the difference. This is "Princess and the Pea" material.
    I know that I personally couldn't tell which direction the shock was oriented. I also wouldn't feel a 10 gram difference between brakes, pedals or some other component with Ti hardware vs. without. Doesn't mean that I think other manufacturers shouldn't make 'em or that consumers shouldn't buy them.

  18. #18
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,056
    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    ... all I can see is... mud and grunge will just collect on top of the damper body/shock shaft area...
    Maybe in a total shloggy mudbath situation it could be an issue, then a shock boot would be the best bet IMO.

    Here's what I found after this weekend's rides:

    I don't ride much mud b/c the NE trails won't tolerate it. But you can see what I meant by the shock is partially shielded by the seat tube and the shaft seal area is so small, not much gets there. Notice how the little green wiper is fairly clean, also notice how the spring is cleaner in direct line with the seat tube, but the outer sides are splattered. I would guess the fork could collect at least as much on/around the wipers than the rear shock. YMMV



    Countdown to Whistler 2012...
    July can't come fast enough!

Similar Threads

  1. Coil Springs for Romic Shocks
    By bcjoker04 in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-30-2004, 07:12 PM
  2. Romic Reliability?
    By forester in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-02-2004, 12:31 AM
  3. Romic Valves
    By LGD98 in forum Turner
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-26-2004, 08:17 AM
  4. bullit & romic...paging keefe (and others)
    By oli_f in forum Santa Cruz
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-22-2004, 03:29 PM
  5. Romic vs. Mojo-tuned Fox Vanilla RC
    By NorseRider in forum Turner
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-20-2004, 12:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •