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  1. #1
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    Unsupple PIKE Air

    I've been on my PIKE since october and I really like the confidence the throughaxle gives but the ride is unplush, washboards and small bumps almost wrestles the grips out of my hands. The fork soaks up the bigger hits without complaining though.

    I'm 220-230# and run the 110 in pos and neg chamber (undersprung according to the manual). Can I tweak it in some way? It already bobs pretty much when I stand and mash on the pedals.

    All input welcome!

    TIA,
    Magnus

  2. #2
    Team Sanchez
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    The Pikes I have ridden are all a little harsh on the small bumps. It may be time for you to upgrade to a Zoke, if smooth travel on big and small is what you crave.

  3. #3
    No, that's not phonetic
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    The Pikes cannot be tuned via oil levels per se, but they sure can be screwed up. Definitely change the oil in it and use the correct volumes. 15cc in both lower legs, 2-5cc above the air piston, and 120cc (iirc) in the MC part. The air version of the Pike is actually very supple (we have two of them). I'm a Zoke man too, and the ride is definitely a bit different than the Zoke, but not worse. Just different.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  4. #4
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    - chamber

    Have you tried putting 5 or 10 psi more in the negative chamber than the positive?

  5. #5
    DGC
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    oil change

    Quote Originally Posted by rocketfuel
    I've been on my PIKE since october and I really like the confidence the throughaxle gives but the ride is unplush, washboards and small bumps almost wrestles the grips out of my hands. The fork soaks up the bigger hits without complaining though.

    I'm 220-230# and run the 110 in pos and neg chamber (undersprung according to the manual). Can I tweak it in some way? It already bobs pretty much when I stand and mash on the pedals.

    All input welcome!

    TIA,
    Magnus
    I am going to say similar to what Tscheezy said. Change the oil time. Get the old stock oil out, new in as he said at the correct amounts using Torco or RS branded in the correct weight oil.
    I have been messing with some motor oil in the lowers for smoother feel, also messing with it on the air piston. It has helped the small bump performance a little. In the lowers right now I have 11 cc's of 15 wt. fork oil as reccomended, and 4 cc's of Mobil 1 5w30 motor oil for better lubrication. Definately felt a touch smoother. On the air piston I am running a mix, 3 cc's fork oil and 1 cc of the motor oil. Yes a small amount. But if you run motor oil that lubricates better than fork oil does then it should help???.......still testing the air piston mix out, dont know how it will fare in the end come a week from now.
    Negative air....running a little more of it than positive gets the fork moving easier, but it will take away a little of your total travel, and if you run like 10 psi. more than positive, I found it to be more harsh in the mid stroke. Try running just 1-3 pounds more negative and see how it does, but give the fork an oil change throughout.
    Lastly, maybe your positive pressure is too low, too much sag, blowing through the early part of the stroke too quick. I think oil change first and see what it rides like then. I am lighter than you about 180 pounds rider weight and find it quite small bump plush at 102-105 psi. positive, negative from matching to 2 psi. more.
    Last edited by DGC; 06-28-2006 at 10:45 PM.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chingon
    The Pikes I have ridden are all a little harsh on the small bumps. It may be time for you to upgrade to a Zoke, if smooth travel on big and small is what you crave.
    Well, I thought my Spot became a tractor when I went from a Minute 1 and put the PIKE on, a Marz would add another pound or two I take it? I don't think I'd want that.

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    The Pikes cannot be tuned via oil levels per se, but they sure can be screwed up. Definitely change the oil in it and use the correct volumes. 15cc in both lower legs, 2-5cc above the air piston, and 120cc (iirc) in the MC part. The air version of the Pike is actually very supple (we have two of them). I'm a Zoke man too, and the ride is definitely a bit different than the Zoke, but not worse. Just different.
    I thought I'd service the fork before the alps in august, but maybe I'll do it sooner then, checking the oil levels. I found the service manual on the SRAM-site.

    DSG, wilks: I'm going out and I'll testride the fork with the shockpump in hand, I'll start where SRAM recommends and I'll lower the pressures. Maybe a little more neg air thans positive would do it.

    Many thanks Homers.

    PS I was out riding yesterday and MAN does the Spot climb. Just had to say it. Too bad my legs doesn't climb as good. DS

  7. #7
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    Sag Level

    Hey,

    I have a revelation, and i have the same problem, the only thing that has helped is running the fork at 30% sag, then turn up the compression a bit (about the 5 clicks of the little dial, lever about halfway around). It helps some, but still does not come close to the compliance of a Vanilla or Marz.

    RT

  8. #8
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    Yeah, I especially notice it after I serviced my Romic and got the custom valving from Stendec. It's now "stupid plush" as they say.

    Oh, yean wrtaylo, I run the fork with pretty slow rebound and a completely open flood gate.

    On my testrun of my new wheels last night, I rode down some steep log stairs and the fork took it in stride. Now, if I just could get the small stuff to work...

  9. #9
    DGC
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    rebound

    Quote Originally Posted by rocketfuel
    Yeah, I especially notice it after I serviced my Romic and got the custom valving from Stendec. It's now "stupid plush" as they say.

    Oh, yean wrtaylo, I run the fork with pretty slow rebound and a completely open flood gate.

    On my testrun of my new wheels last night, I rode down some steep log stairs and the fork took it in stride. Now, if I just could get the small stuff to work...
    If you run pretty slow rebound, open it up quite a bit and see how it does. Even if its faster than you like, try it and see what the small bump performance is then.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  10. #10
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    PIKE coil, baby! An air fork will never be as plush as a coil, especially on the high-speed small bump compliance.

    How many plush DH air forks are out there? None.

    The only advantage to air forks are to save weight and to be able to adjust your sag to your exact weight.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  11. #11
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch
    PIKE coil, baby! An air fork will never be as plush as a coil, especially on the high-speed small bump compliance.
    Air forks have less unsprung mass and can react more quickly than a coil can. The diff would be in seal execution, which could be orders of magnitude less significant than unsprung mass.

    Quote Originally Posted by myitch
    How many plush DH air forks are out there? None.
    Boxxer WC, the new 888 air, 66SL, etc. What rock you been under?
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Air forks have less unsprung mass and can react more quickly than a coil can. The diff would be in seal execution, which could be orders of magnitude less significant than unsprung mass.


    Boxxer WC, the new 888 air, 66SL, etc. What rock you been under?
    Can you read? Plush is the key word here. I didn't say there aren't air DH forks. The feel on the trail is the final decision vs. theory ("which could be orders of magnitude less significant than unsprung mass"). I have never felt an air shock that is more plush than a coil.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  13. #13
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch
    Plush is the key word here.
    My point was that there are so many more factors involved than simply spring type. Ever ridden Manitou SPV dampers in their coil forks? There are lots of air forks which are more supple than those. Dampers and seal execution trumps spring type. This blanket "coil shock better than air shock" is an oversimplification.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  14. #14
    Bad Case of the Mondays
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    A random question, but what front tire are you running and what pressure? I know it sounds like a reach, but I took a ride this morning on a new tire with lower pressure and the Pike felt much more compliant on the small stuff.

    I was running a Kenda Blue Groove 2.35 and switched to a Schwalbe Big Betty 2.4, and the Big Betty made a noticeable difference in suspension feel. I did run a bit less pressure in the Betty than the BG, but I think even at comparable pressure the Betty would feel better.

  15. #15
    DGC
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    Wink tuning

    Quote Originally Posted by myitch
    Can you read? Plush is the key word here. I didn't say there aren't air DH forks. The feel on the trail is the final decision vs. theory ("which could be orders of magnitude less significant than unsprung mass"). I have never felt an air shock that is more plush than a coil.
    Tune an air fork correctly, and it can equal some coil forks in plushness. My old Vanilla RLC vs the Pike, the Pike at least equals the plushness/small bump performance, set at 130mm for true travel comparison. The Pike also can be tuned a ton farther than the Vanilla could be. The Fox did beat the Pike in a few areas by a lot: fork dive, wallow, leaking seals, and flex.
    Crazy plush coils forks often result in much more mid stroke wallow. Tuning goes a long way in determining how plush any said fork can be.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdub
    A random question, but what front tire are you running and what pressure? I know it sounds like a reach, but I took a ride this morning on a new tire with lower pressure and the Pike felt much more compliant on the small stuff.
    You're right, that had something to do with it but not everything, I switched from 2.5-3 bar Racing Ralphs (gotta love living in sand country) to Big Bettys at about 2 bar pressure. My arms and hands weren't tingling after a sandy and rocky descent this time. So, some of the vibrations and small bumps went away but I still think I'll change the oil and fiddle alittle with the pressure as suggested above.

    Many thanks for the excellent advice!

  17. #17
    DGC
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    pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by rocketfuel
    You're right, that had something to do with it but not everything, I switched from 2.5-3 bar Racing Ralphs (gotta love living in sand country) to Big Bettys at about 2 bar pressure. My arms and hands weren't tingling after a sandy and rocky descent this time. So, some of the vibrations and small bumps went away but I still think I'll change the oil and fiddle alittle with the pressure as suggested above.

    Many thanks for the excellent advice!
    I am doing a ride tomorrow with a real rocky decent, no dirt for stretches in a few places. I will drop the positive pressure to 98-100 psi. and equal the negative. It will help keep things good and plush for my not quite fully healed broken leg. You can go lower pressures and use the compression damping if you want, gives you more tuning options.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  18. #18
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    I rode 100/100 this saturday and I rode 100/110 pos/neg yesterday and upped the compression damping with the floodgate dial. Felt nicer, but I won't know for sure until I get to the good downhills again. With 100 PSI the fork's suspension feels nice so I think I've hit the sweetspot on the positive side, now I'll just need to figure out the neg pressure and compressionsettings...

    I'm more of a set and forget type of guy, I need to get this right SOON.

  19. #19
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I personally found that adding compression damping (with some amount of accompanied floodgate) made the fork harsher, not plusher. The floodgate dials in the amount of platform, and the compression controls how much restriction to oil flow there is until the FG opens. I run everything wide open unless I am climbing or on the road.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  20. #20
    Bad Case of the Mondays
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I personally found that adding compression damping (with some amount of accompanied floodgate) made the fork harsher, not plusher. The floodgate dials in the amount of platform, and the compression controls how much restriction to oil flow there is until the FG opens. I run everything wide open unless I am climbing or on the road.
    Me too. I use the floodgate control to dial in a "climbing mode", but then open the compression fully which leaves the fork very active. When I start to climb I turn the compression lever about 3/4 to full compression and the bike climbs well and resists the bob due to the motion control being set higher.

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