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  1. #1
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    Turner is missing the Integrated Headset Bus!?!

    Hey all,

    I'm considering buying a Turner because I hear they are awesome on the hills, but I have one main hangup about how Dave designs his frames. Almost all of the best brands spec integrated headsets, so why doesn't Turner?? IHs are stiffer, more reliable, and allow us to run lighter forks with less steer tube. I have heard that Turner really pays close attention to the opinions of its customers, so is there the possibility of Turner making their frames with IHs in the near future?

  2. #2
    Team Sanchez
    Reputation: El Chingon's Avatar
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    Hey Holmes, define "best brands". I don't see Ventana, Nicolai(Jamis), Titus, Knolly, Transition or Santa Cruz running Integrated headsets. If you are talking about Giant, Trek, Speshy, ect...then your opinion of "the best" may be slightly different from the rest of us on this board.
    Team Sanchez; "Always hittin the upper lip"

  3. #3
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    ahmen. that bein said, i dont wanna scare the new guy off just yet. were a picky bunch and dont think of the big production brands as nessesarily makin the top of the heap, high end stuff.

    ive owned and ridden a '02 homegrown for 5 years. i like it fine, more than fine really. but its ihs is no winner. bearing issues, poor seals, rusted bits, tight spots, etc.... give me a high end h/set any day. my king from '95 is still goin strong on my turner burner, thank you very much. that should tell ya how good they are and how dependable a turner is at the same time. now go place yer order and join the elitest snobs of the turner homers.

    any questions, just ask. youll be hard pressed to find more real world experience in this joint than right here and we tend to be very helpful too.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  4. #4
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
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    Good lord, you mean people actually WANT an integrated Headset???

    what a bastard creation. smaller bearings, weaker interface, just as much bearing exposure. what's the point? to make the MTB look like a road bike?

    Check-it if CK won't touch em. there has to be a half decent reason...and they list several.

    For me, I'm gonna spend money on a decent headset, I 'd like it to complement the bike and not be hidden, and I'd like it to last neigh forever.



    But then I'm a slave to the BLING... so my POV may be a bit skewed.
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  5. #5
    Knollician
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigleg82
    IHs are stiffer, more reliable, and allow us to run lighter forks with less steer tube.

    You are clearly not ready for any quality bike. Would you qualify the above statement please? Stiffer? Not a chance. More reliable? Laughable. Lighter forks? Wow, maybe 25 grams savings?

    Fo, is that you?
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  6. #6
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    hey guys. ease up on the newby. we all started not knowin what worked at some point before we became gawds of mtbr. at least in our own minds.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  7. #7
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    Jeez bigleg82, you really hit a nerve and made the homers sit up and take notice. Just waiting for Tscheezy to put in his $.02

  8. #8
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    hey guys. ease up on the newby. we all started not knowin what worked at some point before we became gawds of mtbr. at least in our own minds.
    cc is calling all the head homers to decide the appropriate course of action. Flailing with a used tube anyone?

  9. #9
    Lay off the Levers
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    cc, in my own mind I'm not even a demi-god... hell last I checked I wasn't even carrying demigod shorts. Not that I'd want to.

    Bigleg... let the IHS go... it's not a deciding point unless you really like the look, AND you're shopping for an XC bike.

    Headsets are a thing of beauty...not to be hidden... stuffing those bearings inside the headtube only requires smaller bearings, and weaker headtubes. No benifit. ditch em. Only Roadies care about the wind resistance...
    Countdown to Whistler 2012...
    July can't come fast enough!

  10. #10
    Silence and Thunder...
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    Cactus must be tired.... I can't believe he stepped right in that troll poo......
    *phew!
    ...every day sends future to past...

  11. #11
    i can't type the letter s
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    Integrated headsets, no good. Internal headset or "Zero Stack", better.





    Me want meat, arrgh.

  12. #12
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    just tryin to be respectful is all. and yeah, im pretty tired. long day.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  13. #13
    Bodhisattva
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    You'll get nothing and like it !

    Life....the original terminal illness

  14. #14
    Rolling
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    I hear trolls have integrated headsets.


  15. #15
    trail fairy
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    WTF

    Integrated POO

    Is this for real, 1st post must be Gonzo

    OK I hear ya CC, but hey for all you newbies show some respect and do some research, there's a tonme of info in here and one if not the best data bases around, if you are real and talk of quality you'll soon get the picture then you can ask some intelligent questions we can take the piss out of

    Integrated keep it on ya spechy,Trek Crack n fails and what ever

    I'm outta here I hate the word integrated, reminds me of STI on mtb! s integrated = biggest marketing crap of the mtb century

    Chir..

    ps you trying to do Chris Kng outta business
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  16. #16
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    Chris King response to IH

    http://chrisking.com/pdfs/Int%20Head...0Explained.pdf

    BigLeg 82,
    Why not 81 or 83, (three to the fourth power or a prime number)? But, I digress.

    I can't believe your really serious, but if you are go to King's website and read the thoughts of an expert. Likely, your a roady with a plastic bike. Check out Serotta's website. No integrated headsets. And none coming any time soon.

    Cheers,

    Kane
    Last edited by zkampyman; 07-02-2008 at 10:05 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigleg82
    Hey all,

    I'm considering buying a Turner because I hear they are awesome on the hills, but I have one main hangup about how Dave designs his frames. Almost all of the best brands spec integrated headsets, so why doesn't Turner?? IHs are stiffer, more reliable, and allow us to run lighter forks with less steer tube. I have heard that Turner really pays close attention to the opinions of its customers, so is there the possibility of Turner making their frames with IHs in the near future?
    Turner does pay close attention to his customers and in this case, the customers have spoken against this awful invention.

  18. #18
    TLL
    TLL is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigleg82
    Hey all,

    I'm considering buying a Turner because I hear they are awesome on the hills, but I have one main hangup about how Dave designs his frames. Almost all of the best brands spec integrated headsets, so why doesn't Turner?? IHs are stiffer, more reliable, and allow us to run lighter forks with less steer tube. I have heard that Turner really pays close attention to the opinions of its customers, so is there the possibility of Turner making their frames with IHs in the near future?
    Best Brands? Not really.
    Stiffer? No.
    More reliable? No.
    Lighter forks? The fork actually has to be slightly bigger. Unimportant when you are running a 5-6 lb fork anyway.

    Def read the article that Chris King has on his website.

  19. #19
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    Hard work

    I work very hard, very very hard not to pigeon hole my customers into one kind of headset, or bottom bracket or front derailer. Other than a bulgy head tube as some might find that attractive I see no reason to go that route on a Turner Bike, none. Image buying a high end frame and rolling down to the local to pick up some critical parts so you can complete the swap of your old bikes parts to the shiny new frame. You will need a integrated headset and one off press in BB that is so cheap the frame ain't even threaded and an OE mostly E plate front derailer you have to toss the plate to use. No SRAM allowed, No King or Cane Creek 110, no choices. Kinda narrow minded don't ya think?

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts, as I do listen, but I listen to a lot of riders and have to distill the info into the next generation frames. As you can see, high end riders don't like integrated nothing. Integrated really means mass production ease.

    DT

  20. #20
    mtbr member
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    integrated

    If you are not riding a Turner, you are riding a integrated pos. I think that is all I have to say.

  21. #21
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    geez dt... why didnt you say that?
    No, I'm NOT back!

  22. #22
    Outcast
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    If the '09 RFX comes with an integrated EBM, I'll be first in line to buy one.
    ****

  23. #23
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    At least the next ones are coming with 1.5, so one can use the internal headset for geo change, should they want. On longer travel bikes 1.5 should be standard to allow a wider range of components and geometries.

  24. #24
    Team Sanchez
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    I tried the internal 0 stack on my Highline. It was a Sunline V.1 reducer. The bearings only lasted 9 months. I'll stick to the fullsize bearings of the King from now on, especially for more abusive type riding.
    Team Sanchez; "Always hittin the upper lip"

  25. #25
    Just roll it......
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    Whoah, touched a nerve, eh???

    Hey ya'll.....since you're so quick to jump all over BigLegs here, I thought I'd echo what Mouse Jockey said and give him the benefit of the doubt......I think he means a "zero stack" and not an "integrated headset".

    If so, that's a very different animal and from what I've seen of buddies with 1.5 headtubes, they very much like the bennies associated with the ability to run a zero stack while running a 1 1/8 steerer tube fork (66, totem, etc.) on those bikes to keep the front end lower. So, in that regard, I do see a couple benefits to running a zero stack headset on an 1 1/8 headtube. I wouldn't necessarily choose a bike based on it, but it's not a detractor in my eyes.

    On that note, I'm running an FSA zero stack (Cane Creek design) on my 6" bike for the past year and it's seen at least 100 days of riding on it with no issues. I do enjoy the lower front end while still running my fork at 160. Of course, I ride a mass-produced POS, but it does ride damn nice (IMO) and has taken a TON of abuse since I've owned it.

    Cheers,
    EB

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