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  1. #1
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    Is Turner going DW Link for 09'?

    Read from another forum in MTBR that Turner is going DW Link for 09'? Sounds strange, but is this true?

  2. #2
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    I believe DT has respect for the DW suspension system, but the Turner bikes are pretty dialed. I'd be really shocked if this were true.
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  3. #3
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    Nope.

  4. #4
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    I agree that the Turner bikes are dialed, but I could see a move to newer technology happening.

    DT ditched the Nitrous, is ditching the Highline, and is completely overhauling the RFX for 09'. Seems like change is afoot at Turner, in some fashion at least.

  5. #5
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    I think there is no need for major change/departure from what works really well, a few tweaks maybe as the entire line continually evolves.

  6. #6
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    I'm in favor of a DW Turner if it drops the price below $2000 so that Jaybo can have one.
    ďLife is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.Ē

    ― Albert Einstein

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I'm in favor of a DW Turner if it drops the price below $2000 so that Jaybo can have one.
    Nice gesture....however, one word of caution: I fear the allure of a DW link Turner may be more than Davide can withstand. Be forewarned


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Nice gesture....however, one word of caution: I fear the allure of a DW link Turner may be more than Davide can withstand. Be forewarned
    Shudder...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyN
    I agree that the Turner bikes are dialed, but I could see a move to newer technology happening.

    DT ditched the Nitrous, is ditching the Highline, and is completely overhauling the RFX for 09'. Seems like change is afoot at Turner, in some fashion at least.
    Have any idea how the RFX will be overhauled?

    Will the tubes be bent or will it have a new suspension design ala DW Link?

  10. #10
    No, that's not phonetic
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    It's been like 2 whole months since the last "DT is going DW??" thread. I was in serious withdrawals.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  11. #11
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    rumor is dt is gonna rebadge a run of santa cruz nomads and call em the turner behappy.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  12. #12
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    Its just a big pile of the steamy brown stuff.......... If DT is changing, he can keep a straight face real well when 6 riders are quizzing him during a breather on a ride the other weekend...

    Sounds to me like a huge knitting circle talking a whole pile of do do
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  13. #13
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    If not Turner then where's DW going?

    Ellsworth? (at least then the efficiency claims would be closer to true )

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtr444
    Have any idea how the RFX will be overhauled?
    Seriously? It's still on page 3. Here's a hint: Next generation rfx will have ISGS tabs, 1.5 headtube and maxle?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hesh to Steel
    With people liking mongoose and trek bikes now, what's next in this crazy world? People disliking the bottlerocket?!

  15. #15
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    DW-Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by xtr444
    Read from another forum in MTBR that Turner is going DW Link for 09'? Sounds strange, but is this true?
    For me this rumor would be a Dream Come True!!! Youíd get the best of both worlds. A beautifully crafted USA built bike with great geometry and the best suspension design currently available. After spending the last few years riding and racing DW linked Lead Donkeys Iíve come to really enjoy and appreciate the DW link design. The DW link does it all. It climbs like a goat with no peddle feedback and it descends like no other design with a very plush and stable feel. I've also realized how much I missed riding a bike with the craftsmanship of a Turner. For what itís worth, put me on the list for a White X-Large DW-Spot with a painted rear-end!!!

  16. #16
    Nicole? Papa?
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    I'm coming (way) late to the party, but can someone explain to me what a DW link is and why it's supposed to be the best rear suspension set-up going?

  17. #17
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    and where was it said turner is doing the DW thing?

  18. #18
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    For all the answers, please search on "GroundHog's Day"
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeTee
    I'm coming (way) late to the party, but can someone explain to me what a DW link is and why it's supposed to be the best rear suspension set-up going?
    Check out this site for all the technical details of the DW Link. www.dw-link.com

  20. #20
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    penned by dave weigel to isolate the rear from pedaling forces and other negitive traits of trail use. its the best cuz the marketing guy says it is. ive yet to ride 1 so maybe i should shut the hell up.
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  21. #21
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    CC, Santa Cruz is going DW???
    Now that IS news!
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  22. #22
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    dammit! i need more sleep. thats a vpp, isnt it?

    here ya go.
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    No, I'm NOT back!

  23. #23
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeTee
    I'm coming (way) late to the party, but can someone explain to me what a DW link is and why it's supposed to be the best rear suspension set-up going?
    Because the man himself says so here: clicky
    Last edited by SCUBAPRO; 05-12-2008 at 10:37 AM.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    dammit! i need more sleep. thats a vp, isnt it?
    whateva, a 4 bar (HL, VPP, DW, Maestro, etc.) is a 4 bar; yes? Each has their own pros and cons as there is always a compromise. You just can't have it all despite what the marketing folks say in their dissertation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foamzilla
    If not Turner then where's DW going? Ellsworth? (at least then the efficiency claims would be closer to true )
    Since the Horst Link patent is expiring soon, perhaps Specy would be interested in picking up what IH dropped.

    You gotta see my dw-E bike. It is 100.1% efficient on pavement relative to my 6-Pack.
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  25. #25
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    This is good news. Turner frames just don't look as good without some extra sticker(s) proclaiming the associated suspension patents involved.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    penned by dave weigel to isolate the rear from pedaling forces and other negitive traits of trail use. its the best cuz the marketing guy says it is. ive yet to ride 1 so maybe i should shut the hell up.
    I don't know about the "Marketing Guy" but I'm stating itís the best suspension design I've ridden yet. I've owned Single Pivot, Horst Link, VPP, and DW. In my opinion ( Yes we all know the joke about opinions) it's hands down the best. Unfortunately there is not a manufacturer currently utilizing the DW Link that I would want to own. Come on Dave I want to buy another Turner!!!!!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    dammit! i need more sleep. thats a vpp, isnt it?

    here ya go.
    THat should bring Derby here in a hurry with some supernatural notions of the operation.

  28. #28
    trail fairy
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    No need to fix what aint broke!

    2nd 3rded 4thed

    DT dialled!

    now looks like a
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  29. #29
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    DW Link is a Crutch. I want a 30.9 seat tube so I can run a real crutch--A Speedball
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  30. #30
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    I'm surprised so few Homers have ridden a DW or Maestro bike.

    I have a Giant Reign X1 that had a DHX 3.0 on there. It honestly felt better in that state than all other bikes I've ridden with PUSHed DHX shocks. By far way better on the square edged hits.

    Now that I have a Roco TST r on there, it's not even funny how much smoother Maestro is than other suspension designs.


    Regardless of performance, there's something to be said for a simple, lightweight, dialed, and reliable bike like the RFX in its current form. I think I like the way the RFX brakes with the single pivot on there, more than Maestro. Maestro feels a tad floaty for my tastes when braking hard.

    There's also the fact that a faster bike isn't always "more" fun. My bike is almost TOO fast right now. I'm constantly having to slam on the brakes to make corners I used to just coast into. The bike has really no sensation of speed at all, so I'm always getting way over my head and killing the flow. Single pivot bikes seem to easier to slow down and control with your body english, where as the Maestro just keeps accelerating regardless of what I try to do.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foamzilla
    I'm surprised so few Homers have ridden a DW or Maestro bike.

    I have a Giant Reign X1 that had a DHX 3.0 on there. It honestly felt better in that state than all other bikes I've ridden with PUSHed DHX shocks. By far way better on the square edged hits.

    Now that I have a Roco TST r on there, it's not even funny how much smoother Maestro is than other suspension designs.


    Regardless of performance, there's something to be said for a simple, lightweight, dialed, and reliable bike like the RFX in its current form. I think I like the way the RFX brakes with the single pivot on there, more than Maestro. Maestro feels a tad floaty for my tastes when braking hard.

    There's also the fact that a faster bike isn't always "more" fun. My bike is almost TOO fast right now. I'm constantly having to slam on the brakes to make corners I used to just coast into. The bike has really no sensation of speed at all, so I'm always getting way over my head and killing the flow. Single pivot bikes seem to easier to slow down and control with your body english, where as the Maestro just keeps accelerating regardless of what I try to do.
    Foamy

    Im a big fan of the Regin X its a great bike! no arguments from me, its not just about the suspension, TBs are about experience, the build, quality CS, the man hiself etc etc, not a corporate hes putting back, we have contact here, there's many reasons for brand loyalty, and not horing

    I really like DW bikes, Ive wanted a Sunday right up with the DHR, I still ultimatley love the DHR above all others for more reasons than performance, and Im not the first one to jump on just because Sam wins everything.

    Ive ridden the MK3 and really like that bike, I woulda put my friend on one but she went with a Maestro, no one listens to me My buddy has one of the most pimped out IH7s around its a stunning bike, but I would still choose a HL over one, am I blind no, its just what I like, others choices are no more wrong than mine, be boring if we were all the same, inclu bikes, in the most we keep our blind faith committed in the Turner forum, while some don't sem to understand that yet remain loyal to there own brands doh, I think Turner Homies still aprecciate other brands, occasionally we deliver some Homer humor to stir the pot.

    Just my morning rant on why I want to see Turner stay the course and not be swayed by the next big marketing thing, if it works there's usually a good reason, but its never wrong to put it out there

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  32. #32
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Foamy

    Im a big fan of the Regin X its a great bike! no arguments from me, its not just about the suspension, TBs are about experience, the build, quality CS, the man hiself etc etc, not a corporate hes putting back, we have contact here, there's many reasons for brand loyalty, and not horing

    I really like DW bikes, Ive wanted a Sunday right up with the DHR, I still ultimatley love the DHR above all others for more reasons than perfromance, and Im not the first one to jump on just because Sam wins everything,
    Ive ridden the MK3 and really like that bike, I would put my friend on one but she went with a Maestro, no one listens to me My buddy has one of the most pimped out IH7s around its a stunning bike, I would still choose a HL, am I blind no, its just what I like, and in most we keep our blind faith committed in the Turner forum, while still aprecciating other brands, occasionally we deliver some Homer humor to stirt he pot.

    But just my rant on why I want to see Turner stay the course and not be swayed by the next big marketing thing, if it works there's usually a good reason, but its never wrong to put it out there

    My 2c
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    I agree. I was getting at the fact that having a smoother and faster bike hasn't really made riding any more fun for me.

    Even though the Reign x could ride circles around an RFX in a DH race, I think I may have more fun on the RFX in much the way some people prefer to ride a BottleRocket instead of a full DH rig. Not as high performance, but more fun to some people.

  34. #34
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foamzilla
    I agree. I was getting at the fact that having a smoother and faster bike hasn't really made riding any more fun for me.

    Even though the Reign x could ride circles around an RFX in a DH race, I think I may have more fun on the RFX.
    I concur number 1

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  35. #35
    "Its All Good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    I concur number 1
    pppppfffffftttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foamzilla
    Even though the Reign x could ride circles around an RFX in a DH race
    I'm not much for the technical things, but surely the objective of a downhill race is to get to the bottom as fast as possible. Riding in circles around other bikes would surely slow one down and therefore be a fruitless exercise?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    pppppfffffftttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

    Can't win

    Now if we we concurring on RX vs HL or DHR then well ya don't take a tooth pick to a gun fight..

    The RX is pretty tight on the downs, oh we we didn't even get into the pre 07 RFX with 66s, still Tman on [RX] kicked my arse on a Riverhead DH once, and 2nd time we had same times
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tidybeard
    I'm not much for the technical things, but surely the objective of a downhill race is to get to the bottom as fast as possible. Riding in circles around other bikes would surely slow one down and therefore be a fruitless exercise?
    Stop poking holes into my swiss cheesey arguements!

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Foamy

    Im a big fan of the Regin X its a great bike! no arguments from me, its not just about the suspension, TBs are about experience, the build, quality CS, the man hiself etc etc, not a corporate hes putting back, we have contact here, there's many reasons for brand loyalty, and not horing

    I really like DW bikes, Ive wanted a Sunday right up with the DHR, I still ultimatley love the DHR above all others for more reasons than performance, and Im not the first one to jump on just because Sam wins everything.

    Ive ridden the MK3 and really like that bike, I woulda put my friend on one but she went with a Maestro, no one listens to me My buddy has one of the most pimped out IH7s around its a stunning bike, but I would still choose a HL over one, am I blind no, its just what I like, others choices are no more wrong than mine, be boring if we were all the same, inclu bikes, in the most we keep our blind faith committed in the Turner forum, while some don't sem to understand that yet remain loyal to there own brands doh, I think Turner Homies still aprecciate other brands, occasionally we deliver some Homer humor to stir the pot.

    Just my morning rant on why I want to see Turner stay the course and not be swayed by the next big marketing thing, if it works there's usually a good reason, but its never wrong to put it out there

    My 2c
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    I understand brand loyalties very much and Iíve always said the best bike in the world is the bike you enjoy riding. Hereís my question, what if Turner put out a DW Link bike and still keep his full line of TNT linkage bikes? Would you then be more receptive to a DW Link or would the Homer consider DT a sellout?

  40. #40
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfink
    I understand brand loyalties very much and Iíve always said the best bike in the world is the bike you enjoy riding. Hereís my question, what if Turner put out a DW Link bike and still keep his full line of TNT linkage bikes? Would you then be more receptive to a DW Link or would the Homer consider DT a sellout?
    Um for me its more than just the linkage, technology!

    Look of the bike, not prettiness etc but to has to look right to me, do I need the ride requirements that more supposedly advanced techologies offer?

    Debatable, most people can't extract the abilites out of there bikes as it is me included.

    Comparing directly the MK3 and IH 7, I prefer the rides of my Spot and RFX over both, but then I specced them to suit me!
    I would have Regin if OEM was my only options without question, but bot the G and IH would need some attention to specc for me to be happy and live with!

    If DT was producing the options you talk about, then no doubt the quality and execution would be awesome.

    I dunno Im of the opinion of love the one ya with, not wishing for maybe's, thats what landing on yer head and braking ya neck does makes ya appreciate what ya got

    Plus I'd prefer to add a HL/DHR than replace what I have chasing rainbows, omo

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  41. #41
    "Its All Good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    and where was it said turner is doing the DW thing?
    I too agree here with JC, where is the source of this knitting circle rumour coming from?
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  42. #42
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    if Turner put out a DW Link bike and still keep his full line of TNT linkage bikes?
    I guess that would depend on how each rode. There's no guarantee DT's DWs would be worlds better than his TNTs, or vise versa and I wouldn't buy either base purely on the technology.

    So the question is If DT built a better bike would I buy it, or would I keep riding his previous designs to avoid admitting anything can be improved?

    Gee Idunno can I think about that?
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  43. #43
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    If you look kinda crosseyed at the chainstays

    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    dammit! i need more sleep. thats a vpp, isnt it?

    here ya go.
    don't they say "Crutch-link"?
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    So the question is If DT built a better bike would I buy it, or would I keep riding his previous designs to avoid admitting anything can be improved?
    LMAO - but that's kind of what some of the responses are like.

  45. #45
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    I like my Turners better than the DW link and Pivot bikes I've demoed, but they weren't set up exactly the way I like. I didn't sense enough potential 'better-ness" to consider making a switch.

    I did buy into the "better than sliced bread" talk about VPP and bought a first generation SC Blur. That bike never did it for me and ended up being replaced by an Ellsworth Epiphany that I liked better, which was replaced by a Sultan that I like best.

    I would be very, very interested to see what Dave Turner would do with a DW design. I'm not holding my breath, but we were all surprised when the TNT rear end came out, so we might want to never say never.

    One thing I've discovered is that I don't like suspension to stiffen under power. That makes for good fireroad climbing, but not good tech climbing in my opinion. The VPP bikes I've ridden seemed to do this a lot. I don't think I noticed this very much with DW bikes, but I never had a chance to do much climbing with them.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder
    ... I didn't sense enough potential 'better-ness" to consider making a switch..
    Bob, I think you hit the nail on the head there. I've ridden dw linked bikes for extended periods and have one set-up according to my likes and there are pros and cons to the dw.

    Just as an example, here's my brief comparison of an IH 6 Point and my Six Pack:

    Preface: Both use Mission Control damped forks, same stem and handle bars, and both have Pushed DHXc.

    CLIMBING: The 6Point is a bit harder to climb but that is likely because it is 3lbs heavier and 1.5lbs of that is in the front tire. On rocky tech climbing, the 6Pack is more compliant as the rear end on the dw does slightly stiffen up under power. The stiffening of the rear is actually not such a bad thing as it prevents the rear end from diving into dips..

    Landing DROPS: they both feel the same.

    BRAKING: Braking in rough, the Six Pack has slight advantage as the rear feels more active; I can more easily lock up the rear on the 6Point indicating a slightly less active rear end while on the brakes.

    SQUARE EDGE: The 6Point does take on square edge hits better (does not hang up on square edge-high speed hits).

    CORNERING: 6Point corners slightly better probably due to lower BB (it currently sits at 13.75BB while my pack has a 14.1BB).

    Considering everything about the two bikes, I'd pick the Six Pack based on build quality and lighter weight. If they were both made by Turner and weighed the same, it would be a toss up. I'd be happy with one or the other.
    Last edited by SCUBAPRO; 05-16-2008 at 10:17 AM.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfink
    LMAO - but that's kind of what some of the responses are like.
    Homer!

  48. #48
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Folks seem to migrate both directions. Acadian, Marshall Willanholly, and others sold their dw's and ride Specialized now for instance. Others have gone the other direction.

    I've tried every suspension design out there and I don't see the point to switching based on a sticker on the chainstays.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Folks seem to migrate both directions. Acadian, Marshall Willanholly, and others sold their dw's and ride Specialized now for instance. Others have gone the other direction.

    I've tried every suspension design out there and I don't see the point to switching based on a sticker on the chainstays.
    not anymore..

  50. #50
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    Hey, I'll buy one. If DT and DW work on it, it'll be the best DW ever and one worth owning. I can't wait much past Interbike so if ya gonna do it, let's do it. I gotta get another bike soon and I want something really new and cool.

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    I'd buy one

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfink
    I understand brand loyalties very much and Iíve always said the best bike in the world is the bike you enjoy riding. Hereís my question, what if Turner put out a DW Link bike and still keep his full line of TNT linkage bikes? Would you then be more receptive to a DW Link or would the Homer consider DT a sellout?
    Any excuse for a new frame eh?

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Folks seem to migrate both directions. Acadian, Marshall Willanholly, and others sold their dw's and ride Specialized now for instance. Others have gone the other direction.

    I've tried every suspension design out there and I don't see the point to switching based on a sticker on the chainstays.
    I used to sell the giant maestro bikes, and they lived up to the hype in terms of suspension performance.

    The problem with the IH bikes was the piss-poor initial iteration with the super-long top shock bolts and other issues. Then there was the crappy 5th element action, not to mention that the first batches were supposedly valved incorrectly (but even a "correctly" valved 5th feels like crap compared to something that provides good suspension performance). These are the reasons I stay with a turner and that I didn't try to buy a 6-point or whatever kind of bike they were selling. A good number of these issues got ironed out as they moved on, but other issues (alignment, incorrect parts used at the factory, manitou shocks with different sized bushings that wore out faster, etc) just showed that any issues on the DW-link bikes weren't unique, they were more indicitive of IH as a company. I know a bike that DT designs will have the proper pivots, rocker-arrangement so you aren't bending shock bolts and ovalizing pivots every ride, adequate stiffness and alignment, and so on. If I had bought a DW-link bike instead of a turner would I still be riding it 3-4 seasons later? Based on my experience no way. The IHs were just not constructed to be that kind of a bike that keeps going on season after season.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  53. #53
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acadian
    not anymore..
    Ok, I'll bite. What now? That polished was so purdy.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Ok, I'll bite. What now? That polished was so purdy.
    That's a giant question; Luc please fill us in.

  55. #55
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    It's been a long day. Tired. Too much going on. Confused.

    Is it 2006 again???

    --MW

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Ok, I'll bite. What now? That polished was so purdy.
    Sold the Polished Enduro SL a while ago. it only took me a few rides to realize that the Enduro wasn't for me. Probably the worst pedaling bike I've ever owned, especially when going uphill. With the AFR shock it wasn't so bad, but the bike was worthless on descents. Mounted with the proper shock, the bike worked well on descents, but sucked up all my energy on uphills...after riding the Enduro I quickly realized why some people need lockouts on shocks. something I never needed on the dw*links I owned. Even with a proper shock, the FRS tends to get bogged down on square edge hits.

    I recently got a 08 Giant Trance X and really like that bike. Pedals as efficiently as the dw*link (which is to be expected) and I really like the overall suspension characteristics of the Maestro. The Trance will be replacing my Stumpjumper. May I also point out that the rear end of the Trance is much stiffer than the Stumpy.

    well there you have it....

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acadian
    Sold the Polished Enduro SL a while ago. it only took me a few rides to realize that the Enduro wasn't for me. Probably the worst pedaling bike I've ever owned, especially when going uphill. With the AFR shock it wasn't so bad, but the bike was worthless on descents. Mounted with the proper shock, the bike worked well on descents, but sucked up all my energy on uphills...after riding the Enduro I quickly realized why some people need lockouts on shocks. something I never needed on the dw*links I owned. Even with a proper shock, the FRS tends to get bogged down on square edge hits.

    I recently got a 08 Giant Trance X and really like that bike. Pedals as efficiently as the dw*link (which is to be expected) and I really like the overall suspension characteristics of the Maestro. The Trance will be replacing my Stumpjumper. May I also point out that the rear end of the Trance is much stiffer than the Stumpy.

    well there you have it....
    How did the weight of the enduro compare to your current Trance? I wouldn't doubt that the trance would be a better bike in terms of not bogging you down as much (I definitely love the maestro action).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    How did the weight of the enduro compare to your current Trance? I wouldn't doubt that the trance would be a better bike in terms of not bogging you down as much (I definitely love the maestro action).
    I think my Enduro SL was around the 30llbs mark...the Trance I haven't weighted but I think it's around 27lbs (have it built pretty solid with a pike and strong parts). yeah...I love the way the suspension work on that bike. Pedals super well and rips on the DH. I hear Push has a pretty good tune for the Trance X, but I want to ride it stock for a few weeks before I do an suspension tunes.

    the bike that is replacing the Enduro in my stable is a SC Nomad. Yeah not the best pedaling bike in the granny gears, but it still pedals much better than my Enduro did. And it's a weapon when going downhill...love the geometry of that bike and it simply feels like a mini DH bike. Probably the bike I feel the most confident on right now.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acadian
    I recently got a 08 Giant Trance X and really like that bike. Pedals as efficiently as the dw*link (which is to be expected) and I really like the overall suspension characteristics of the Maestro. The Trance will be replacing my Stumpjumper.
    I love the Maestro stuff. The Reigns have been among my IBike favorites the past few years. In fact, if dw would license it I would probably like his stuff more.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I love the Maestro stuff. The Reigns have been among my IBike favorites the past few years. In fact, if dw would license it I would probably like his stuff more.
    Oh yeah, but is it in accordance with the Fundamentals of Vehicle Dynamics by Gillespie, and Tony Foale's motorcycle book?
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  61. #61
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    I'm sure the Giant and dw lawyers will weigh in on that very topic shortly.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I'm sure the Giant and dw lawyers will weigh in on that very topic shortly.
    Perhaps but isn't giant dw's maestro?
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    SQUARE EDGE: The 6Point does take on square edge hits better (does not hang up on square edge-high speed hits).
    That's why you should have kept that Avalanche shock ....

    Nice comparison, by the way.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Folks seem to migrate both directions. Acadian, Marshall Willanholly, and others sold their dw's and ride Specialized now for instance. Others have gone the other direction.
    I'm still on a dw-link bike for downhill racing. I've been riding a 6Point too, but I'll be selling that shortly to make room in the garage for a new project.

    cbHarping is the one who has been on Specialized lately, although she is selling her Enduro SL.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Willanholly
    I'm still on a dw-link bike for downhill
    Forgot to mention that I'm also still on my original Iron Horse Sunday for DHing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Willanholly
    IcbHarping is the one who has been on Specialized lately, although she is selling her Enduro SL.
    what is she getting next?

  66. #66
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    The arms race is so confusing.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971
    That's why you should have kept that Avalanche shock ....
    +1
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    The arms race is so confusing.
    Hence why I hope DT don't buy into all the hype, everyone will be back on RFX's and spots in 09, you heard it here first
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Hence why I hope DT don't buy into all the hype, everyone will be back on RFX's and spots in 09, you heard it here first
    Well thats because it will be a Masculine RFX for 09.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  70. #70
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    Dejavu all over again - seems to remind me about the rumors prior to the TNT. Bottom line is no one will know until DT shares his current thoughts.

  71. #71
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    Where did this suggestion originate?

    The conspiracy theorist in me thinks - if it wasn't even a possibility, wouldn't DT just shoot it down straight away?

    Yours,

    Mulder xxx

  72. #72
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    sometimes he likes to see us all squirm.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  73. #73
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    Very amusing is it not that no one can seem to come up with a real source as to where this knitting circle rumour has come from......
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  74. #74
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    There are a lot of good bikes out there, but for me my 05 flux and now 07 spot were as good as any other bike in their respective "classes" and offered superior durability and maintenance. On either bike, I'm a happy middle age career-minded weekend warrior old school XC interests rider. DW-link is just another whatever to me.

    But in the market for bikes as a whole (in my guestimation), that kind of stuff sells. People want tech and differentiation. A lot of friends are picking up Giants (Trance X or Reign) this year. A DW-link Turner could turn a lot of heads and maybe open some additional wallets. So I could see why there could be hypothetical interest.

    I can see the start of a grass roots advertising campaign.

    Nobody cares if you ride a DW-Link, but they will want to have sex with you if you're on a DW-Link Turner.

  75. #75
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    I have heard DT is going to license DW. (rumor?) That's not a bad thing.
    I have rode DW twice. The first time was not all that great due to my poor setup. The second time a pro set up the bike (sag) and it was really amazing. CLimbed like a scalded Monkey and rocked the downhill.
    I see DW in my future.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Hence why I hope DT don't buy into all the hype, everyone will be back on RFX's and spots in 09, you heard it here first
    Thank god Mr. Leitner didn't buy into the whole rear suspension hype for mountain bikes back in 1991. Thank god Hayes didnít buy into that whole hydraulic disk brake system hype back in the late 90ís. Thank good Rockshox didnít buy into that whole through axel back in early 2000. I could go on and on with crazy ideas that are now standard on mountain bikes. Look, mountain biking is a rather high-tech sport and it will continue to progress. Iím not saying that people need to jump on every bandwagon that comes by, but people should be open to new ideas and advances not instantly shut them down because of band loyalty. I can't wait to ride my new White DW-Spot in 09!!!!

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeTee
    Where did this suggestion originate?

    The conspiracy theorist in me thinks - if it wasn't even a possibility, wouldn't DT just shoot it down straight away?
    You mean like he did the last two or three times someone started this rumor?
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    You mean like he did the last two or three times someone started this rumor?
    He also said he wasn't going to release a 29er several times before rolling out the Sultan. So I wouldn't be surprised if DT released a single DW linked frame to test the waters, and I don't know why anyone should get their panties in a wad if he does. Now if he pushed DW through the entire Turner line up that'd be reason to grab the pitchforks and torches.

    Ratfink, aren't you somewhat of an insider within the Turner crowd? Me thinks you know something we don't.

  79. #79
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    They all lined up in single file line, taking turns at watching girlies behinds.............
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  80. #80
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    Will the new DW link RFX have Gravity Dropper cable guides as well?

  81. #81
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    There is simply nothing wrong with developing two, well executed suspension designs under one brand name.

    To that end, I find it very curious that DT has not chimed in with any contrarian dialog on this thread.
    Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  82. #82
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    I just can't wait to see a DW bike with bushings!

    On the other hand, it may never happen.

    DW link may require some bent tubes, which of course are not even in DT's vocabulary.

  83. #83
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    I know nothing more than anyone else on this board and I don’t want to mislead anyone into thinking I do. I’ve never had an in-depth conversation with Dave regarding his view of the DW-Link or even if he’s considered revamping some of this line. I joked with both Dave and Greg up at Sea Otter that I’d be the first one in a very long line if he ever built a DW Link bike. It’s been a few year since I was on a Turner and I really miss the quality and Dave’s detail to geometry. What I don’t miss is the 1991 Four Bar linkage design. I loved and rode Turner Horst Link bikes for many years until a new sponsorship deal for the team lead to me trying a DW-Link bike. Even though the quality of the new trail bike left a lot to be desired the suspension was spot on. I only jumped on this thread because of all the conversations I’ve had with rider from around the world regarding how cool it would be if Turner’s were offered with a DW-Link. You would be surprised how many people would buy a DW-Linked Turner and I’m not talking first time buyers. The biggest issue I see with Dave offering a DW-Link Tuner is the likely negative reaction from a few of the core Homes that are very active on this site.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    There is simply nothing wrong with developing two, well executed suspension designs under one brand name.
    [/Fo] If Santa Cruz can have both single and virtual pivot bikes, so can Turner [/Fo]
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfink
    The biggest issue I see with Dave offering a DW-Link Tuner possible negative reaction from a few of the core Homes that are very active on this site.
    Bingo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ďLife is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.Ē

    ― Albert Einstein

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfink
    Thank god Mr. Leitner didn't buy into the whole rear suspension hype for mountain bikes back in 1991. Thank god Hayes didnít buy into that whole hydraulic disk brake system hype back in the late 90ís. Thank good Rockshox didnít buy into that whole through axel back in early 2000. I could go on and on with crazy ideas that are now standard on mountain bikes. Look, mountain biking is a rather high-tech sport and it will continue to progress. Iím not saying that people need to jump on every bandwagon that comes by, but people should be open to new ideas and advances not instantly shut them down because of band loyalty. I can't wait to ride my new White DW-Spot in 09!!!!
    All valid points though I don't see how those examples are hype, most of those examples you use were around for along time and were natural progessions when those companies took there ideas to the market they were leaders of exisiting technology they trickled into MTB, Disc brakes had been around for years on moto bikes, Horst L had been Involved in Enduro and MotoX bikes for years so he knew what he was doing in applying his skills to cycling, RS and suspenion well that had been around for centuries Im not sure how those ideas were hype, or how I suggested they were! Not taking anything away from those companies they are Legends but keep it in context, easy to qoute a sentence.

    My expression of hype was more about marketing rather than the technology, I was not saying DW was hype if it read that way,my aploogies I wasmtalking about jumping from one thing to another, we have posts here about costs, delays issues, and all sorts and the list goes on, sometimes not fixing whats not broken is a very successful formula,all these wish lists have draw backs, and evoultion not revoultion is sustaining! But what would I know Im just the un silent majority

    Besides Im not shooting down anything new, if you read my points correctly you would know Im a fan of both DW and Maestro, but also of the bushing and Fbar/Fauxbar TNT of Turner, everyone is the winner!

    Had it not been for my current situation I would more than likely be racing a Sunday this season, now don't take that out of context either and go judging me cause there are many reasons for that, many decisions believe it or not are not just about the bike!

    Youre opinion just as important as mine, Im sure DT is sitting back looking at the numbers and looking at wether this idea would be well recieved or not, through this thread and feedback from his clients and dealers, we are only a small part of the world here www..

    My .002c for what its worth regardless of the future everything changes, least I have the knowledge that I may still be able to ride my Spot in 10yrs rom now like CC doing having fun on his Stinger

    Anyway I just look forward to riding again some time peace out
    Chur
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Very amusing is it not that no one can seem to come up with a real source as to where this knitting circle rumour has come from......
    First rule of the knitting circle is we don't talk about the knitting circle
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfink
    The biggest issue I see with Dave offering a DW-Link Tuner is the likely negative reaction from a few of the core Homes that are very active on this site.
    I don't think Fo, rr or aqua will have a negative reaction to a dw turner.

    On a serious note: I hear what you are saying Rat. I concur that a Turner designed dw linked bike will be awesome.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    To that end, I find it very curious that DT has not chimed in with any contrarian dialog on this thread.
    Who ever thought we'd see Dustard anxiously awaiting DT's every word? Homer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfink
    The biggest issue I see with Dave offering a DW-Link Tuner is the likely negative reaction from a few of the core Homes that are very active on this site.
    If DT simply added a DW frame to his line up I don't think you have nearly the reaction he got when he went from the ICT to the TNT, and even that didn't seemed to hurt sales much. What percentage of Turner's market share is actually held by the "core Homers" anyway? It can't be much.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfink
    You would be surprised how many people would buy a DW-Linked Turner and Iím not talking first time buyers. The biggest issue I see with Dave offering a DW-Link Tuner is the likely negative reaction from a few of the core Homes that are very active on this site.
    Ditto...there's a high level of quality we've come to expect and experience through Turner bikes. I doubt that if anything else were to come down the pipe it would be less than perfect, it still would be a Turner. I would buy one in a minute, actually I'm holding off getting a RFX until I see what the new one is going to be. I have enough to ride until then.

  91. #91
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    What percentage of Turner's market share is actually held by the "core Homers" anyway? It can't be much.
    I'm sure the “Core Homers” are not a large share of his global market, but they are a very LOUD and ACTIVE share of his market. I’m quite sure that the "Core Homers" have generated quite a bit of sales for Dave through there shared passion of Turner Bikes.

  92. #92
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    The rumour mill is amazing....

    The one I heard today was that, TSCheezy has sold all his Turners, including the one he just built up over the past weekend and has bought a Helius CC, Helius AM, Helius FR and a Helius ST.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Iíve always wanted to try a bike with DW link but stuck with my 6pack due to build quality, geometry and overall ride. After 4 years on my pack Iím getting ready for a new ride. That said, if DT decides to bring a DW link RFX to the market I will take the leap and buy one, no questions asked.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    I don't think Fo, rr or aqua will have a negative reaction to a dw turner.
    Easy there! I did not mention anyone or single out any Homer.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfink
    I'm sure the ďCore HomersĒ are not a large share of his global market, but they are a very LOUD and ACTIVE share of his market. Iím quite sure that the "Core Homers" have generated quite a bit of sales for Dave through there shared passion of Turner Bikes.

    Being loud and active on the "Turner forum"is what its all about chillin supposedly and having good times! and in the most from my point of view 98% in here is jest hanging out just having fun with the bros and how I take it, I apply and make up my own mind mostly, generally most of info posts stuff shared here is of a helpful nature! There seems to be a few who want to make more of this behind the scenes and thats sad.

    If being loud and active on the Turner Forum and having fun is such a bad thing and being passionate about said brand then it is a sad day, and global warming has indeed reached beyond the south and north pole's!

    Everyone has an opinion, I don't understand why its always comes down to them and us when someone disagrees, or Homer this, Loud or Active, and others who bring the hate from elsewhere, like Ive stated a number of times my opinion is just that and eveyone else is just as correct!

    Now back on topic so I might learn something..

    Chur.
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Now back on topic so I might learn something..

    Chur.
    You might want to start by learning how to chill-out! I did not say that being LOUD and ACTIVE on this site was a negative thing, quite the opposite. I stated that the "Core Homers" have likely increased Turner sales over the years. You are the only one in this thread that seems to be taking it personal.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfink
    Easy there! I did not mention anyone or single out any Homer.
    Yeah but those three are The Core Homers; you know...
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    I don't think Fo or aqua will have a negative reaction to a dw turner.
    I agree, Fo and Aqua as core Homers would no doubt jump on the bandwagon regardless of design, in fact I'm pretty sure Aqua will be sporting the new DW link RFX later this year, Fo will wait for the special "Homer" edition with GD cable guides and I9 spare spoke holder.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Fo will wait for the special "Homer" edition with GD cable guides and I9 spare spoke holder.
    ROTF
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    ...the special "Homer" edition with GD cable guides and I9 spare spoke holder.
    Great idea! Perhaps DT can incorporate the I9 spoke holder in the one nine rfx.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

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