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  1. #1
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    Turner Czar Drivetrain and fork - looking for input

    I just received my Czar. I was going to do a part swap. I currently have a 2x10 XTR crankset (38/26). The Turner website indicates that a Shimano 2x10 XTR crankset cannot be used. I was wondering what this issue is with XTR 2x10 crankset. I don't think I want to switch to 1x11 so I am wondering what other 2x10 cranksets everyone is using and what works well.

    I am also going to be using a 120 fork. I have seen a couple of threads on forks but looking for additional input on using the 120 fork on the Czar. I am hearing good things about the RS SID and would be interested in any feedback on the SID - stiffness, plushness.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Hi buddy, check the details on the site, because usually the problem frames for xtr crank sets revolve around the 40t option hitting the swingarm. (Xtr doubles come in bigger rings than xt etc)

    Btw I know nothing of turner, but have bumped into this issue with niners

  3. #3
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    I had the same questions for my Tallboy build. After weighing all options and reading everything possible I bought the Sid RCT3 120mm...and I'm going 1x11 over 2x10. Nothing but good reviews on the RCT3. I got it for 615 shipped yesterday...2014 model

  4. #4
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    Is it just the XTR? Or also the XT and SLX 2x10?

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    Is it just the XTR? Or also the XT and SLX 2x10?

  6. #6
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    It is just the XTR.

  7. #7
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    The 120 fork is great. I prefer it to the 100, but both have their place. 100 for pure xc race bike use, 120 for endurance racing and trail use. The 120 Fox is a significantly burlier chassis than the 100 which has obvious benefits, at the cost of about 6 ounces of weight, I believe.

    I think the SID sticks with the same chassis regardless of travel, so the 120 might be a bit flexy depending on your size and how you use the bike.

    Not sure about the XTR issue. I run XT at 38/24 on my Czar, and the fit and chain alignment are perfect. Clearance between the 38 ring and the chainstay is just right, and clearance is equal on both sides between crank arms and chainstays.

    I suspect that the issue is with chainrings bigger than 38t, but a quick call to Turner tomorrow morning will confirm this, before you ding up your new dream frame!
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  8. #8
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    The XT fits fine, but the Q factor of the XT and the XTR are not the same. We cannot recommend XTR unless it is a triple. We are spec'ing the Race Face Next carbon cranks with PF30 BB in our pro kits with Shimano drive train. I will admit that at least 2 riders have 'made it work' by careful spacing and a little grinding of the inside tips of the crankarms. Not something many would feel comfortable with on a new crank, but when swapping older parts to the Czar, they chose some custom fitting instead of buying another set of top shelf cranks.

    DT

  9. #9
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    One case of XT that doesn't work on the Czar: running poor-man's 2x10 on a 3X crankset. I have a Shimano M780 triple crank fitted with a 26T inner and a 38T middle ring and spacers in place of the outer ring. Although this fits fine on my Scott hardtail, it was way too close to run on the Czar.

    The 38T on a genuine 2x10 crankset is spaced further outboard and should be fine.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by InertiaMan View Post
    One case of XT that doesn't work on the Czar: running poor-man's 2x10 on a 3X crankset. I have a Shimano M780 triple crank fitted with a 26T inner and a 38T middle ring and spacers in place of the outer ring. Although this fits fine on my Scott hardtail, it was way too close to run on the Czar.

    The 38T on a genuine 2x10 crankset is spaced further outboard and should be fine.
    Precisely. This is the exact issue with the XTR m980 2x10 (38/26), it is a 3x10 crank with the outer ring removed. The XTR m985 Race is a proper 2x10 crankset but the smallest gearing is 40/28- no thanks on a wagon wheeler... This issue (including the PF BB requirement) is why I chose XX1 on my Czar and I'm more than pleased with the result.

  11. #11
    Daniel the Dog
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    Just go XT and call it good. If you think a few ounces makes a difference you are kidding yourself unless you enter world cup races.

  12. #12
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    I agree, but subscribing to that realistic train of thought would have everyone on $1500 FS bikes weighing 30 pounds and not $2800 Czar frames.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Just go XT and call it good. If you think a few ounces makes a difference you are kidding yourself unless you enter world cup races.

  13. #13
    Daniel the Dog
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    One part doesn't make a bike a 30 pound bike. Go XT or Race for the crank and everything else can be racer boy, hey look at me parts.

  14. #14
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    Until XTR comes out with a PF30, the raceface is a great alternative.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesinmud View Post
    Until XTR comes out with a PF30, the raceface is a great alternative.
    Although knowing Shimano, they will choose a 29.9 mm spindle.
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  16. #16
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    A couple years back I read a good article by a mechanic on setting up a "poor man's XTR" - essentially go XTR on shifters and FD, SLX (or XT) on cranks, RD, cassette. I've basically stuck with this with no complaints. The SLX cranks are great, and in fact a touch lighter than the XTs; the SLX RD is also great, but it is definitely heavy. The SLX brakes are also fantastic and cheap. I'll always go for XTR shifters - they are fantastic and built to last (although I have to admit the ones I bought last year aren't the same quality as the past - Shimano cheaped out on levers - switch to plastic).

  17. #17
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    I remember that older article. Art's has one such opinion, too: http://blog.artscyclery.com/ask-a-me...nd-your-money/

  18. #18
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    Built the czar up tonight. I went with XT crank and Fox Float CTD 120 w 51mm offset. It weighs in at 25.3 lbs. Turner Czar Drivetrain and fork - looking for input-image.jpg

  19. #19
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    I have 10 rides on the Czar with a Fox 120 CTD with 51mm offset. There have been no issues with the front wheel wandering on steep climbs.

    The handling has been incredibly crisp. It is very fast and precise in the corners; very stable in rock gardens; fast and stable on descents; and a very efficient climber that hugs rocky and loose terrain. This is the most agile quick handling 29er I have ridden.

  20. #20
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    Been putting in some good miles on my Czar since early December. Running a 100mm SID RCT3 with non-51mm offset, and after the 3 hour rocky sufferfest I'm sticking with the 100 (Large frame, 100mm stem -7, one small spacer underneath, 740mm carbon with 15mm rise and 9d sweep). I mainly race MTB marathons and consider myself a climber more than a fast downhiller although my background in desert and enduro motorcycle racing has me comfortable in the downs, too. A slightly taller steer tube spacer brings the handlebar up into what I consider a more relaxed all-around trail riding position but it takes away from my slightly more stretched out racer climbing position. A 120mm fork raises the front end too much for my needs no matter the axle to crown or stem/spacer configuration. I'm sure with more tinkering I could find a 120mm fork and stem combo that works brilliantly as others have. To each their own.

    I'm not a Turner fanboy by any stretch of the imagination. I am admittedly a DW Link fanboy: Iron Horse MKIII, Ibis Mojo, Pivot Mach 5.7 and almost purchased their 429C but their garish logos turned me off (plus Pivots are very common in my riding group). Would've went Ripley but the Czar's cable routing is better and I didn't want 120mm.

    DW Link is so easy to set up and the feel both in compression and rebound, in every mfg's variant, fits my riding style perfectly. Right now shock sag is 30%, but I may go to 25% for race day. The fork - set at 25% sag - and rear shock are set in Trail for rougher faster riding but in Descend the Czar behaves more relaxed due to the shock riding further in its progression at times. I'll put fork and shock in the stiffest settings for the long smooth fast fireroad sections but it's nice to have a T and D setting that make a noticeable difference.

    As for magazine tests I don't put much weight in them, but so far every one has been spot on. As a race bike and trail bike the Czar covers every base. Mine is build up as a 21 pound 1x11, but it's not a fragile skitterish bike. In fact I think tires are the only limiting factor for a Czar rider if everything else is set up in regard to sag and cockpit fit/feel. I view my bikes more as a tool to get the job done, but the Czar easily doubles as a fun trail bike to explore even with a 100mm fork.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by InertiaMan View Post
    One case of XT that doesn't work on the Czar: running poor-man's 2x10 on a 3X crankset. I have a Shimano M780 triple crank fitted with a 26T inner and a 38T middle ring and spacers in place of the outer ring. Although this fits fine on my Scott hardtail, it was way too close to run on the Czar.
    Just another data point: I installed a blackspire 36T super pro as the middle ring on an XT M780 crank. It fits but it's pretty close. There's 1mm of space between the teeth and chainstay. I assume that's enough.... ?

    The up side is that it puts the big ring (if running the triple as a double + bash) a bit closer to center of the cassette.

  22. #22
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    Matto6, take the air out of your shock and cycle the suspension To make sure the space is ok, then tape it up best you can and don't let your chain get too long ( chain suck is going to suck)

  23. #23
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    I agree w/ pharmaboy to cycle the suspension and inspect the clearance across the full range of movement.

    That said, I personally wouldn't proceed with only 1mm of clearance. Even with a nicely designed, stiff carbon chassis, that area is going to flex some. And if something ELSE goes wrong that causes more flex than normal (say, someday a pivot loosens or something) then you will have absolutely no margin for error. The LAST thing you want happening is a chairing teeth digging a trench in your chainstay.

    BTW, what BB are you using matt06?

  24. #24
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    Good point about measuring across the full range of suspension compression. The 1mm measurement was taken on a bike stand so suspension fully extended. The clearance increases as the suspension compresses; at 8mm sag, it's 2.5mm tooth clearance.

    BB is Wheels Manufacturing PressFit 30.

    PS: For comparison sake, the M785 double with 38T chainring has 2.5mm clearance while suspension fully extended.

    I've never experienced chain suck, but after reading about it I'm ready to go 1x11.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by matto6 View Post
    I've never experienced chain suck, but after reading about it I'm ready to go 1x11.
    Presumably you're joking, but just for clarity, the chainring clearance has nothing to do with chainsuck. Its primarily a function of the relative wear on chain & chainring and drivetrain cleanliness & lubrication. There's hundreds of discussions to find on the web about it.

    More to the point, the advent of clutch type rear derailleurs has made chain suck an endangered species, because there is now a strong force pulling the chain as it exits the chainring. Further to the point, one could make an argument 1x11 is potentially more vulnerable to chainsuck than 2x10 because the narrow/wide chainring is marginally more likely to "suck" the chain, at least for the 50% of the teeth that are wide. But that would be debating degrees of highly-unlikeliness: ultimately any drivetrain with a clutch derailleur and a chain/chainring combo that is in reasonable condition is unlikely to experience any significant chainsuck.

    Chainsuck was a common issue "back in the day" so consider yourself lucky to have never experienced it!

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