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Thread: Turner Burner

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    Turner Burner

    Got to spend some time on a Burner today at Interbike. Felt really good, it was a good build, with carbon enve wheels, didnt weigh it but it was in the 27-28 lb range. Only issue I had with it was that I felt it was a bit firm on square edge bumps both climbing and descending, it didnt feel like it clawed its way up and over, more like it bounced up and over. Could have benefited from a dropper post as well.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Turner Burner-interbike-2012-001.jpg  


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    is that still a proto version or the final do you know/think? looks very good

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    Interbike postings have returned! Keep them coming Craig.

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    Krob and I were tag teaming the bikes, so look for a full, more detailed review from the master. It was still a prototype

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    Craigstr,
    Thanks for the post on the Burner, know you’re a Titus guy, so thanks again for the fun post. Do you think the "bit firm on square edge bumps both climbing and descending" has anything to do with the tune of the RockShox? In my limited experience, I've noticed RS being firmer/more progressive.

    Additionally, did you spy any other Turner models with significant changes?

    Thanks again.

    Cheers,

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    I'll get my full report up tonight on the All Mountain forum but I really dug the Burner. It climbed really well and was really fun on faster, semi-chunk like the Caldera descent. The bigger wheels weren't hugely noticely but I could feel some extra momentum carrying effect on climbing and pushing it in more rolling stuff.

    I suspect the hanging up on/skipping over square edge rocks that Craig mentioned was at least part shock tune, part just having stepped off a 29er 5inch travel Trance, and part just the way Bootleg Canyon brings out the worst in any suspension.

    I know the rear end could be made to feel better.... because my 5 Spot feels better than that. I rode it four days out at Cottonwood and Cowboy trails a couple weeks ago and was quite pleased with how it handled both the faster rocky flow of Cottonwood and the gnarlier, squared edged chunk of Cowboy trails.
    Last edited by KRob; 09-19-2012 at 02:51 PM.
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    KRob,

    AWESOME! Thanks a ton...it almost feels like Christmas. I look forward to your full report!
    Have fun at Interbike and thank in advance for the spy reports!

    Cheers,

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    Could be..

    Quote Originally Posted by jjkitt View Post
    Craigstr,
    Thanks for the post on the Burner, know you’re a Titus guy, so thanks again for the fun post. Do you think the "bit firm on square edge bumps both climbing and descending" has anything to do with the tune of the RockShox? In my limited experience, I've noticed RS being firmer/more progressive.

    Additionally, did you spy any other Turner models with significant changes?

    Thanks again.

    Cheers,
    Krob has more experience with the DW suspension. I am a die hard horst link guy, everything else feels a bit odd to me. It very well could have been a shock tune thing. That being said the Maestro on the Trance X 29 felt incredible to me.

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    Hi KRob. Can you post some pics of the Turner booth for those of us can't/won't/can't afford to go to Interbike? hehehe. Any other new model of Turner out aside from the Burner?

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    Had anyone got a picture of the Burner in size XL?

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    What happen to the Interbike Forum? I strongly believe MTBR messed up by getting rid of it. It was one of the cool features of MTBR - getting the low-down from the average person. Every year, I looked forward to reading folks impression on bikes, parties, babes, etc. Instead I am getting my interbike news from other websites and organizations. The official interbike news on MTBR is downright piss-poor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    The official interbike news on MTBR is downright piss-poor.
    Go to Pinkbike. Their mobile site is really nice if you are looking from your phone. Bikerumor has a lot of details as well.
    Last edited by 69erEverything; 09-19-2012 at 11:35 AM.
    99% of the problems and questions posted here would be answered if people actually walked into a bicycle shop and asked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    What happen to the Interbike Forum? I strongly believe MTBR messed up by getting rid of it. It was one of the cool features of MTBR - getting the low-down from the average person. Every year, I looked forward to reading folks impression on bikes, parties, babes, etc. Instead I am getting my interbike news from other websites and organizations. The official interbike news on MTBR is downright piss-poor.
    Agreed.

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    Yeah coverage is spotty, there were Pinkbike guys all over the place, we interviewed with them at DSP. Turner had a small booth, 4 bikes, nothing new except the Burner. Nothing really exciting at the show, although there were a ton of people and it now takes two levels of the Sands.

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    Spec's?? any info this? Thanks

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    Didnt see a spec sheet

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    . Only issue I had with it was that I felt it was a bit firm on square edge bumps both climbing and descending, it didnt feel like it clawed its way up and over, more like it bounced up and over.
    The chain was too tight.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    The chain was too tight.
    LOL. Good one..... and I know what you're saying (I think). The chain tightening that creates the pedaling platform for the dw-link may be the cause of this. I have noticed this to greater or lesser extent on every dw-link bike I've ridden, but I know it can be tuned out to some extent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    LOL. Good one..... and I know what you're saying (I think). The chain tightening that creates the pedaling platform for the dw-link may be the cause of this. I have noticed this to greater or lesser extent on every dw-link bike I've ridden, but I know it can be tuned out to some extent.
    You saw what I did there
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Got to spend some time on a Burner today at Interbike. Felt really good, it was a good build, with carbon enve wheels, didnt weigh it but it was in the 27-28 lb range. Only issue I had with it was that I felt it was a bit firm on square edge bumps both climbing and descending, it didnt feel like it clawed its way up and over, more like it bounced up and over. Could have benefited from a dropper post as well.
    over on the Knolly site, you "hated it". here, it felt really good. what's up?
    breezy shade

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    Well the firmness on the square edge bumps was enough to make me not consider it, so many other bikes out there that gobbled it up. The more I thought about it, the more I disliked it.

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    the RWC needle bearing helped lots on my dw Flux and current dw Sultan with the square
    edged stuff.
    Running a RS Monarch rear shock. This keeps bike up further in the stroke.

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    differnt strokes

    Craigstr I see you are a Titus brand fanboy, and they obviously have superior stuff IYHO, cool so ride your Titus and be happy, that is why you have a bike right?

    So where are the reviews of the Burner from the dozens of riders that rode them for 2 days? We had 11 Burners in the dirt for most of the time for 2 full days, and most were ridden by people that were truly impressed when comparing the Burner to the other 650s and trail type bikes. For those that want to actually ride one yourself, come to Moab next month and take one for a ride.


    Happy trails

    DT

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Craigstr I see you are a Titus brand fanboy, and they obviously have superior stuff IYHO, cool so ride your Titus and be happy, that is why you have a bike right?

    So where are the reviews of the Burner from the dozens of riders that rode them for 2 days? We had 11 Burners in the dirt for most of the time for 2 full days, and most were ridden by people that were truly impressed when comparing the Burner to the other 650s and trail type bikes. For those that want to actually ride one yourself, come to Moab next month and take one for a ride.


    Happy trails

    DT
    Well Craigster didn't like it, and he has +4 rep over you, so I'm not interested in a test ride. The others are begging Noel for a ride on the new 650Bilcotin....
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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    Outer Bike

    This is at the top of my list to try in Utah,,My intent is to ride all 650's, with the only real hang up being HT or FS

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    Very true...

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Craigstr I see you are a Titus brand fanboy, and they obviously have superior stuff IYHO, cool so ride your Titus and be happy, that is why you have a bike right?

    So where are the reviews of the Burner from the dozens of riders that rode them for 2 days? We had 11 Burners in the dirt for most of the time for 2 full days, and most were ridden by people that were truly impressed when comparing the Burner to the other 650s and trail type bikes. For those that want to actually ride one yourself, come to Moab next month and take one for a ride.


    Happy trails

    DT
    Dave,
    Didn't mean to offend you or your brand. I never said Titus stuff was better, just that horst link works better for me, my riding style, and where I ride. But you have to take the good with the bad, and as a consumer the Burner didnt work for me. Maybe with extended time and shock tuning it might work for me, but out of the box it was a no go.

  27. #27
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    I have 4 seasons on 2 generations of DW Sultans, and I am seriously considering switching to the Burner after riding it at Interbike. It was the only trail bike I truly felt like I could rally like the Sultan, but it was more playful in the air, plus it WANTED to be in the air. I was even riding the cheaper version with X9 and Arch EX's - no X0 and ENVE on mine to cloud my judgement

    For reference, I ride lots of rugged trails and do super-d and enduro racing on my Sultan. I want to put a 160 X-Fusion Vengeance on this thing and get as much rubber as possible. I think it could be a AM killer that pedals great to get to the downhill...
    Let me fix your bike @ ordinarybicycle.net in Louisville, CO

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Craigstr I see you are a Titus brand fanboy, and they obviously have superior stuff IYHO, cool so ride your Titus and be happy, that is why you have a bike right?

    So where are the reviews of the Burner from the dozens of riders that rode them for 2 days? We had 11 Burners in the dirt for most of the time for 2 full days, and most were ridden by people that were truly impressed when comparing the Burner to the other 650s and trail type bikes. For those that want to actually ride one yourself, come to Moab next month and take one for a ride.


    Happy trails

    DT
    I was wondering the same thing until I remembered past Interbikes and really only KRob and Tcheezy's reviews here. If you read the forums here it almost seems like Interbike didn't happen last week. Wierd!

    Bobo

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    So,
    What happened to the Interbike anyway
    Any other reviews from those who are impressed
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn View Post
    So,
    What happened to the Interbike anyway
    Any other reviews from those who are impressed
    No idea. My guess is that the bike business is pretty bad right now and companies are saving money by not going to the big trade show. Being Vegas that week must have value because some are going cheap and showing prototypes in hotel rooms. Cheaper than the $2200 10x10 booth on the floor or space at the Dirt Demo.

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    Try Mountain Biking and BMX news and reviews MyBikeStand.com
    Ian worked his tail off at the show. Better coverage then the big guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Craigstr I see you are a Titus brand fanboy, and they obviously have superior stuff IYHO, cool so ride your Titus and be happy, that is why you have a bike right?

    So where are the reviews of the Burner from the dozens of riders that rode them for 2 days? We had 11 Burners in the dirt for most of the time for 2 full days, and most were ridden by people that were truly impressed when comparing the Burner to the other 650s and trail type bikes. For those that want to actually ride one yourself, come to Moab next month and take one for a ride.


    Happy trails

    DT
    fanboi or not he's entitled to his opinion and his right to express it. i'm not a huge craigstr fan, but he just gave his opinion of the bike. no one's opinion is completely unbiased, just like any review by a homer, they all need to be taken with a grain of salt. no need to get your panties in a bunch, i'm sure there will be a lot of people who love the ride

    as far as 650b goes, i feel sorry for pacenti, where were all you industry guys years ago when he was the only one touting 650's benefits. now the big boys and builders like yourself are hopping on, long after he struggled to get his message out

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    as far as 650b goes, i feel sorry for pacenti, where were all you industry guys years ago when he was the only one touting 650's benefits. now the big boys and builders like yourself are hopping on, long after he struggled to get his message out
    meh. TurnerBikes doesn't need me to answer this, but I'm surprised you missed all of the interviews with DT about 3-4 years ago saying he would absolutely do a 650b as soon as Fox or RockShox came out with a fork. Kinda strange to expect a relatively small frame company to throw a 650 frame out there, when there was one fork available (White) ... that most people weren't familiar with, or just didn't want in general.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgan1819 View Post
    meh. TurnerBikes doesn't need me to answer this, but I'm surprised you missed all of the interviews with DT about 3-4 years ago saying he would absolutely do a 650b as soon as Fox or RockShox came out with a fork. Kinda strange to expect a relatively small frame company to throw a 650 frame out there, when there was one fork available (White) ... that most people weren't familiar with, or just didn't want in general.
    Ventana built a 650B specific FS frame....Kirk showed it at the NAHBS show in 2008.

    BikeLugs.com

    In my opinion, people like Kirk are on the cutting edge and other[s] have to wait for a more secure footing to make the splash into the format. I'm thankful he took the risk because the last two years have been some great riding on my Ventana 650 HT.

    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    Ventana built a 650B specific FS frame....Kirk showed it at the NAHBS show in 2008.

    BikeLugs.com

    In my opinion, people like Kirk are on the cutting edge and other[s] have to wait for a more secure footing to make the splash into the format. I'm thankful he took the risk because the last two years have been some great riding on my Ventana 650 HT.

    .

    and here is an email, directly from Ventana: "Hi Jeff, Although we are discontinuing El Bastardo frame and we had originally said we were not going to offer a 650b model (due to the lack of components), we have decided to introduce a new 650b full suspension frame now that Fox will be offering a 650b specific fork ..."

    I'm a huge Ventana fan. Always have been. Let's be honest though, everyone pretty much had to follow the lead of Fox and RockShox on this one... back at ya

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    Ventana built a 650B specific FS frame....Kirk showed it at the NAHBS show in 2008.

    BikeLugs.com

    In my opinion, people like Kirk are on the cutting edge and other[s] have to wait for a more secure footing to make the splash into the format. I'm thankful he took the risk because the last two years have been some great riding on my Ventana 650 HT.

    .
    Not really a fair comparison. Ventana manufactures their own bikes, so they can adjust the jig and build a handful of frames. Turner has to order minimum quantities, which is a lot more risky if no one buys them...

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    So far, Craigster still has more rep and didn't like it, so the Burner sucks.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobo_krkk_NIN View Post
    I was wondering the same thing until I remembered past Interbikes and really only KRob and Tcheezy's reviews here. If you read the forums here it almost seems like Interbike didn't happen last week. Wierd!

    Bobo
    DITTO.. I really miss Tcheezy's Interbike test reviews and coverage. Nothing like those days...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgan1819 View Post
    and here is an email, directly from Ventana: "Hi Jeff, Although we are discontinuing El Bastardo frame and we had originally said we were not going to offer a 650b model (due to the lack of components), we have decided to introduce a new 650b full suspension frame now that Fox will be offering a 650b specific fork ..."

    I'm a huge Ventana fan. Always have been. Let's be honest though, everyone pretty much had to follow the lead of Fox and RockShox on this one... back at ya
    I spoke to Sherwood in person about a year ago regarding this issue. He stated it would be easier for him to sell 650B frames when Fox or RS jumps in....but X-Fusion and WB Loop are up for the job regardless. I think it's easier for Ventana to offer a frame because they make them in house. So regardless of them "discountinuing" the frame they wouldn't turn down a sell. In fact, when I ordered my semi custom 650B hard tail, I was one of two people that had one.....not listed on Ventana website but if you want it bad enough you can get it. I guess that's the difference between leading and following.....finding a way to make it work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    So far, Craigster still has more rep and didn't like it, so the Burner sucks.
    Whats wrong with a bike wanting to assist a rider in skipping over obstacles? I remember back in the days when hardtail race bikes were the only bikes we had for all mountain type riding. It seems to me that the Burner may posess some of the more desirable characteristics of a hardtail. You know before the days of bikes that just plow through obstacles and require very little rider skill or bike handling skills....

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    We were impressed with the Burner.









    Me and my buddy were the first ones to take out the Burner bikes on day two of Dirt Demo. Yes DT, those local guys.

    I took the small Burner with Rock Shox components/suspension, Arch Ex wheels with Kenda Nevegal rubber. My buddy had the medium with Flow Ex wheels and Kenda Nevegal rubber. DT himself set-up my bike. I would have loved to see a dropper post on it and different rubber.

    First impression of the Burner was how efficient it was climbing on the smooth and chunky stuff. I didn't feel any skipping or stalling on the way up or down. Maybe the suspension was "broken-in" by the second day, it was set-up properly from the get-go, maybe because I ride Bootleg every week, a combination of these factors. If I had like a full day of riding the Burner, I could rule things in or out.

    So I asked my buddy who also has a room full bikes including a xc race bike, trail bike, AM bike and full-on DH bike. He liked the Burner climbing and descending. "Efficient" was the common theme for us when it came to the Burner. I would add that it was fun and efficient.

    Bottom line, if I were in the market for a trail/am bike, the Turner Burner will be on that list. Was it better than the RM Altitude, Scott Genius, Intense Carbine at the Dirt Demo? Hard to say right now without spending more time on each and going over every little detail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedsdoc View Post

    Me and my buddy were the first ones to take out the Burner bikes on day two of Dirt Demo. Yes DT, those local guys.

    I took the small Burner with Rock Shox components/suspension, Arch Ex wheels with Kenda Nevegal rubber. My buddy had the medium with Flow Ex wheels and Kenda Nevegal rubber. DT himself set-up my bike. I would have loved to see a dropper post on it and different rubber.

    First impression of the Burner was how efficient it was climbing on the smooth and chunky stuff. I didn't feel any skipping or stalling on the way up or down. Maybe the suspension was "broken-in" by the second day, it was set-up properly from the get-go, maybe because I ride Bootleg every week, a combination of these factors. If I had like a full day of riding the Burner, I could rule things in or out.

    So I asked my buddy who also has a room full bikes including a xc race bike, trail bike, AM bike and full-on DH bike. He liked the Burner climbing and descending. "Efficient" was the common theme for us when it came to the Burner. I would add that it was fun and efficient.

    Bottom line, if I were in the market for a trail/am bike, the Turner Burner will be on that list. Was it better than the RM Altitude, Scott Genius, Intense Carbine at the Dirt Demo? Hard to say right now without spending more time on each and going over every little detail.

    i love standover height , but damn, that small looks like it was custom built for a midget.

  44. #44
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    Any of the demos set up with the new 650b Fox at 160mm in the front?

    If so, would be curious to hear some rider feedback on that configuration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedsdoc View Post
    Bottom line, if I were in the market for a trail/am bike, the Turner Burner will be on that list. Was it better than the RM Altitude, Scott Genius, Intense Carbine at the Dirt Demo? Hard to say right now without spending more time on each and going over every little detail.
    Good review on the Burner. Great bike and certainly on my list as well.
    Did you get to ride the RM Altitude 650b and Scott Genius 700, Ed? Looking forward to your impressions on those too.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by vwvoodoo View Post
    I have 4 seasons on 2 generations of DW Sultans, and I am seriously considering switching to the Burner after riding it at Interbike. It was the only trail bike I truly felt like I could rally like the Sultan, but it was more playful in the air, plus it WANTED to be in the air. I was even riding the cheaper version with X9 and Arch EX's - no X0 and ENVE on mine to cloud my judgement

    While I doubt I'll ever be without at least one 29er bike in the quiver.....I think a FS 650B bike with at least 140mm of rear travel would be a nice addition ! I sure would like to know the geometry specs of the new Burner ! TIG.
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    Question to self: I just bought a Sultan a couple of months ago.... Why do I keep looking at the Burner !?!

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    It's because it's the new IN thing
    all previous good bike will become mediocre
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

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    San Diego area demo

    North of the Border bike shop will host a demo this Saturday for those wanting to try a Burner out. We will take a few Sultans and Spots if we can fit them in the van, but the whole fleet of Burners will be there, Sm-Lrg.

  50. #50
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    Dave, any info on geometry? Specifically TT length for the larges?
    Thanks

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    Dave,
    When will you be in Moab with the demos? I have and love the Sultan but thinking letting the wife try a Burner. We'll be there Oct. 6-13.
    ken

  52. #52
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    Burner fans

    My wife and i had two of the burners on day two, towards the end of the day. After shuttling all afternoon long, hitting both of the decents from the top, loving the techy side of option left but getting roped into option right as Tyler from Twenty6 kept wanting to do fast runs on his Intense Slopestyle....trying to keep him roped in was a good test for each bike we rode . On this particular ride i was on large burner for myself at 6' and a small for my wife who is 5'5", my wife btw is a super solid female rider who has a very decent skill set. Not a jumper or anything like that but certainly will try rolling just about everything. We value her input as well when making purchasing decisions.

    Familiar with how Turners ride and knowing what to expect in the suspension department, the test for me was based solely on differences in wheel size. I wanted to see if this rolled through the chunk any easier than my 5 Spot. My wife.....she was full on bike shopping....some chicks head to the mall, my wife is content in the dirt and loves new bikes. She's currently on an 08' RFX and was at Dirt Demo looking to replace it.

    Our first run down from the top on the Burners was option right for the faster of the two routes, the run starts of chunky has a couple of nice turns and i could tell right away that the 650 could still corner aggressively much like my spot. After the two corners the trail opens up and you could haul ass through a couple rocky sections, my tires weren't on the ground much through this section and this was certainly the section Tyler would start to make his move on me each lap. The 650 wheels rolled well through here and the only thing i really noticed was how solid Turner bikes feel in comparison to alot of the junk out there. No whiney linkages on Dave's bikes. So tracking and suspension characteristics felt perfect. I may have had a little too much air in the tires and too lazy to let some out....also didn't want to be the ONE guy who damaged the test set of ENVE wheels so i left them slightly over inflated. I was also thinking to myself the changes i'd make to the bike to make it a serious contender ( no bike at dirt demo is spec'd perfectly ). For me, a 34 Float 140 or 34 Talas 160 and a seat dropper would be welcomed additions. And a high volume tire other than a nevegal would be nice.... i hear Schwalbe is making a Hans Dampf, hopefully other options follow because this is certainly a limiting factor for guys looking to purchase 650b bikes now....the only two tires we can currently find is the Nevegal and some IRC fireblaster. Weak.

    Other than that, the bikes were sweet. We rode the decent down to the very bottom, below the parking area and then climbed back up towards the pump track , the bike climbed well on a couple of steep, butt in the nose of the saddle type climbs. And then a quick tromp through the pump track and no hangup on the first small double, it carved both corners well and made the small step up at the end without casing the landing. 650b can jump too.

    Regrouping at the bottom of pump track while sippng on astronaut food. My wife beaming, said she cleaned the entire run...no dabs for the first time of the day. I ask her was it the bike or because you just rode the downhill 10 times today ?? She says....def the bike. Without a doubt her favorite bike. Tyler is now interested in trying it. Personally, i could be content on one. Wheel size dilemma....i still think my spot or a couple of my other 26" wheeled bikes are still my favorites but i'm a grouch. This bike certainly has serious potential and i think for solid intermediate leveled riders who like to roll obstacles the slightly larger wheel certainly lessens the angular contact with boulders and debris keeping the bike rolling with less hangups than a smaller wheel, but still climbs, corners, and feels spunky like the smaller wheel. Maybe this 650 thing will catch on. I dunno, but i do know Turner knows how to build bikes, and yes...we'd like to order a small please.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Turner Burner-img_2462-1.jpg  

    Last edited by nwmtb; 09-27-2012 at 04:47 AM.

  53. #53
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    so, how does it compare to that other bike you're riding these days that has 2 different sized tires, neither of which are 27.5"?
    breezy shade

  54. #54
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    aahhh, opening that can of worms ?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwmtb View Post
    aahhh, opening that can of worms ?
    breezy shade

  56. #56
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    Come on, share....

  57. #57
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    i used to think Travis Brown and Trek were silly.....then a fella by the name of Sherwood Gibson said it's legit, so i opened up my wallet.....for the sake of science ; )

    this should be fun...eh ?

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwmtb View Post
    ....the only two tires we can currently find is the Nevegal and some IRC fireblaster. Weak.
    Plenty of new tires coming, and soon. It's too bad the Fire is so ridiculously skinny. Much more so than the 26 or 29 inch versions. My wife has had good luck with the Pacenti Neomoto up front.
    Whining is not a strategy.

  59. #59
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    [QUOTE=kosmo;9731353]Plenty of new tires coming, and soon. QUOTE]



    the only holdup.....looking forward to seeing all the offerings. Heard if Maxxis has anything in the works ??

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwmtb View Post
    the only holdup.....looking forward to seeing all the offerings. Heard if Maxxis has anything in the works ??
    Yes, Maxxis at Eurobike introduced the High Roller II in different Variations. One of them is the 27,5 x 2,4 Super Tacky, which means to have a serious DH-Tire for 650Bs. Ardent and Minion may follow ...

  61. #61
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    What is the weight of the frame and shock on a medium???? Also, geometry please! How am I supposed to spend countless weeks buttering my wife up to buy one of these when I have basic questions?

    Seriously, nice bike. I'm thinking of getting this over an Ibis HD 140 650B, and I currently ride a Mojo SL 26". Great job DT!

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    Rode a Burner this weekend and loved it. Rolled nicely over obstacles but was still maneuverable in tight sections. I had been looking at the Sultan for a while now, and now have a serious contender in the Burner. Way to go DT - thanks for adding another great piece to your line!

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    Hi David,

    When can we expect the full specs about the burner and availability?

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nwmtb View Post
    Heard if Maxxis has anything in the works ??
    Maxxis Adds 650B MTB Tires, New Minion DHR II, Olympic BMX Tread & Rainbow on the Road - Bike Rumor


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    DT - I'm seeing comments about a 67 HA and that it may be too slack. However, I've ridden your latest work of art and didn't seem to notice it that much. What's the final geometry, and how do you feel about the slackness? Are we focusing too much on one metric (HA) as opposed to the overall build? Thanks!

  66. #66
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    slackers

    The slacker head angles that have become more popular over the last couple years on bikes that are more trail than enduro racer / All Mountain are certainly hard for us older riders to get our heads around, but getting a chance to actually ride the bikes opens the eyes to a new level of stability. The interweb is a great place to ***** about stuff one does not know about. Of course these new bikes do take a different approach to cornering with an emphasis on countersteering/ hip steering, which is very different than the old HA require. The wider bars also help with this as one can use it to lever the bike down. I know the hard core tree threaders will think that this a set back, and maybe so for some but for most riders the added stability will far outweigh the challenge of learning a slightly new cornering technique.

    If you rode a bike and like it, than you know what to say to those e-whining.

    I really like 67 for the final HA on the Burner, i have ridden them at 66 to 68 and the 67 is the most neutral, none of the choices I tested were 'bad', but the 67 has the best feel As usual I will use a 73 SA. All sizes of Burner get 10mm added to TT when compared to the Spot and Sultan to partly offset the radical shortening of stems that is happening.
    CS will be 17.6" and it keeps the nose down great in rough climbs.

    DT

  67. #67
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    I'll admit I'm concerned by the slack head angle, mainly because I've never had a chance to try such a bike. I'm a "tree threader," (great term, that) by default, simply because that's the kind of trails we mostly have around here. I like the idea of a stable FS bike because I think it would nicely contrast/compliment my 650b Curtlo softail (70 degree head angle) which is a lively handler but a bit of a handful if I don't stay on top of it. Tons of fun for what it is, though.

    Is there a schedule of Turner demo opportunities online anywhere? As far as I can tell, Turner doesn't even have a dealer in Michigan anymore, so I doubt I'll get an opportunity to try one at a shop. I'm open to the idea of the slack head angle but I definitely want to try before I buy. Will there be a chance to test ride one in my vicinity someday?

  68. #68
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    I agree with DT on the head angle thing. Once you adjust your style, you can make the bike work anywhere. I put a 1.5 degree angle set on my 2010 650b Spot, added wider bars, shorter stem. I ride in the Northeast so am familiar with tight trails. Personally, I'd never go back to the old steeper (69 degree) bikes. Game changing stability benefits outweigh the razor sharp handling of old for me. The slacker bikes come alive at speed and once you get used to how they handle at slow speed you won't go back. On the other hand, not so sure on the bb height although admittedly have little experience on lower bb height bikes. While not against lower bb heights, I kinda like my ~14 inch bb ht. Again, lower may be better, I'm open to trying out the "new" school trail bike geometry. I'd assume like the slacker head angle you simply adjust your style. Anyone care to comment on their own personal experience with going from 14 inch to 13 inch bb heights?
    Drink beer all day

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBAD View Post
    Anyone care to comment on their own personal experience with going from 14 inch to 13 inch bb heights?
    I have no personel experience on lower bottom brackets but read a great review by someone that does on the 5Spot. By Kevin Bazar 2011 Turner 5.Spot | Blister Gear Review – Skis, Snowboards, Mountain Bikes, Climbing - The most honest, and in-depth reviews of ski, board, bike, and climbing equipment on the planet.

    There’s no reason for a company to produce trail bikes with 5-6” of travel with higher bottom brackets than their 8-inch-travel DH bikes. There just isn’t. Low BB DH bikes like the Turner DHR and the Specialized Demo are very well liked for their low center of gravity. If a longer wheelbase frame with a 13.5” bottom bracket can function better in decidedly rougher terrain than your average trail bike rides, there’s no reason to go over that same number on a shorter-travel frame. And it would similarly benefit high speed stability—a lot.

    Makes for interesting reading and I for one would be very keen to give the Burner a ride given the chance. (Would be great if DT could get a bike to Blister for a thorough testing)...

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanopatoni View Post
    I have no personel experience on lower bottom brackets but read a great review by someone that does on the 5Spot. By Kevin Bazar 2011 Turner 5.Spot | Blister Gear Review – Skis, Snowboards, Mountain Bikes, Climbing - The most honest, and in-depth reviews of ski, board, bike, and climbing equipment on the planet.

    There’s no reason for a company to produce trail bikes with 5-6” of travel with higher bottom brackets than their 8-inch-travel DH bikes. There just isn’t. Low BB DH bikes like the Turner DHR and the Specialized Demo are very well liked for their low center of gravity. If a longer wheelbase frame with a 13.5” bottom bracket can function better in decidedly rougher terrain than your average trail bike rides, there’s no reason to go over that same number on a shorter-travel frame. And it would similarly benefit high speed stability—a lot.

    Makes for interesting reading and I for one would be very keen to give the Burner a ride given the chance. (Would be great if DT could get a bike to Blister for a thorough testing)...
    Awesome review. If I could sum up why I love Turner frames in one simple statement, it would fall in line with this -

    "How my feet stayed underneath me, and the bike didn’t spring back from flexing in hard corners. The frame ain’t doing a damn thing but pointing where I put it. That’s where the poetry lies."

    That's what I love about these frames, the designs are tight and true. I haven't ridden a DW yet, but I just traded one of my TNT Spots for the 2012. Can't wait till it gets here!

  71. #71
    RPG
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    The slacker head angles that have become more popular over the last couple years on bikes that are more trail than enduro racer / All Mountain are certainly hard for us older riders to get our heads around, but getting a chance to actually ride the bikes opens the eyes to a new level of stability. The interweb is a great place to ***** about stuff one does not know about. Of course these new bikes do take a different approach to cornering with an emphasis on countersteering/ hip steering, which is very different than the old HA require. The wider bars also help with this as one can use it to lever the bike down. I know the hard core tree threaders will think that this a set back, and maybe so for some but for most riders the added stability will far outweigh the challenge of learning a slightly new cornering technique.

    If you rode a bike and like it, than you know what to say to those e-whining.

    I really like 67 for the final HA on the Burner, i have ridden them at 66 to 68 and the 67 is the most neutral, none of the choices I tested were 'bad', but the 67 has the best feel As usual I will use a 73 SA. All sizes of Burner get 10mm added to TT when compared to the Spot and Sultan to partly offset the radical shortening of stems that is happening.
    CS will be 17.6" and it keeps the nose down great in rough climbs.

    DT
    Ahem...how about the frame and shock weight? Not a weight weenie, just curious.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanopatoni View Post
    I have no personel experience on lower bottom brackets but read a great review by someone that does on the 5Spot. By Kevin Bazar a thorough testing)...
    That guy's a hack.

    What gets me is that there have already been bikes that have been made with BB heights well into the 12s. Specialized is the one I know best because I owned a few of them. These were 4-5" travel bikes with 12.5" BB heights. They railed. There's this kind of steadfast mindset if your feet hit something while climbing up over rocks or roots, the BB height is too low. Nevermind this little thing called rider input where pedal timing comes into play. No one is building up 30+lb trail bikes with big sticky tires with 5-6" inches of travel because they don't care about descents. Why compromise such an obvious contributor to descending stability on such bikes? It makes no sense to me.

    And worst of all, it's been done and I and at least one other very fast riding buddy held onto those bikes for quite a long time specifically because they were lower than anything else out there. It's not like this is some outlandish concept that pushes the boundaries of well.......anything.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  73. #73
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    Did I miss the spec sheet on these things? Numbers.....I need numbers.....
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    The slacker head angles that have become more popular over the last couple years on bikes that are more trail than enduro racer / All Mountain are certainly hard for us older riders to get our heads around, but getting a chance to actually ride the bikes opens the eyes to a new level of stability. The interweb is a great place to ***** about stuff one does not know about. Of course these new bikes do take a different approach to cornering with an emphasis on countersteering/ hip steering, which is very different than the old HA require. The wider bars also help with this as one can use it to lever the bike down. I know the hard core tree threaders will think that this a set back, and maybe so for some but for most riders the added stability will far outweigh the challenge of learning a slightly new cornering technique.

    If you rode a bike and like it, than you know what to say to those e-whining.

    I really like 67 for the final HA on the Burner, i have ridden them at 66 to 68 and the 67 is the most neutral, none of the choices I tested were 'bad', but the 67 has the best feel As usual I will use a 73 SA. All sizes of Burner get 10mm added to TT when compared to the Spot and Sultan to partly offset the radical shortening of stems that is happening.
    CS will be 17.6" and it keeps the nose down great in rough climbs.

    DT
    Is that with the 750g Nevs or the 520g Ra Ra I saw you pictured with on the proto bike.
    Like 29ers, that weight difference will make a huge difference to how it handles.

    I've been a critic because I'm confused as to what it is. It has more Trail[ stability]and probably longer wheelbase than the 5 spot, giving it more AM cred than the 5 spot, yet you ride it with lightweight Ra Ra and Wolverine tires?

    I'd be annoyed if I owned an expensive 5 spot as it has now effectively been displaced by a light Trail bike.

    I've got a 67 degree bike and I have trialled it extensively with full 650B 750g tires and it's a brilliant carver . But I much prefer the same bike at 66 to 66.6 with 26" 750g tires. It still feels crisp at those angles in 26"[ and that's with 780mm bars]. For a year or so now I have run my other steeper Trail bikes at between 68 and 68.5 degrees with 650g to 750g 650B. It's a big improvement over 26" , and at that head angle they feel crisp but not twitchy. To my mind this is where it's currently at for a 650B light trail bike.

    IMHO, 67 degrees would have been good for a 650B 5 spot and about 68 degrees for the 650B Burner .

    I can only assume the Burner is designed for next generation lightweight 650B Trail tires similar to the 2.25 Rocket Ron. At the moment it's pigeoned in heavy trail mode because of current lack of tire choice? I suspect with the current build weight it's more pitched at light trail/ marathon use in which the slack angle gives stability to sketchy lightweight tires like Ro Ro and Ra Ra ?

    That of course makes it very versatile if you want to put the heavier AM tires on and it can take the abuse?

    As to the future of the 5 spot? IMHO, this year it probably should have been slackened out to 66 degrees and the wheelbase increased to take it out from tight woodsy trail to a full AM contender, like the META AM.

    The Burner has taken over the multi purpose trail bike posn.
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 10-10-2012 at 11:58 PM.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    That guy's a hack.

    What gets me is that there have already been bikes that have been made with BB heights well into the 12s. Specialized is the one I know best because I owned a few of them. These were 4-5" travel bikes with 12.5" BB heights. They railed. There's this kind of steadfast mindset if your feet hit something while climbing up over rocks or roots, the BB height is too low. Nevermind this little thing called rider input where pedal timing comes into play. No one is building up 30+lb trail bikes with big sticky tires with 5-6" inches of travel because they don't care about descents. Why compromise such an obvious contributor to descending stability on such bikes? It makes no sense to me.

    And worst of all, it's been done and I and at least one other very fast riding buddy held onto those bikes for quite a long time specifically because they were lower than anything else out there. It's not like this is some outlandish concept that pushes the boundaries of well.......anything.
    Don't forget Spez bikes have low pivot posn and the accompanying relative low BB movement.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    Don't forget Spez bikes have low pivot posn and the accompanying relative low BB movement.
    I'm not sure I even know what that means.

    What is 'low BB movement?'
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  77. #77
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    What happens when you sit on your bike?

  78. #78
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    Chipmunks run out from under the tires, laser lights turn on and the theme from Stayin Alive plays.


    Why?
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  79. #79
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    Are you sure that's not all coming out from your ears instead?

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    I'm not sure I even know what that means.

    What is 'low BB movement?'
    It means you are a non-technical rider.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  81. #81
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    I'd love to demo a Burner compared to the 29er full sus bikes I've owned for the last several years. Currently only got a 29er HT setup SS so I'm keeping an eye out for what I'd like as a next trail bike.
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    Are you sure that's not all coming out from your ears instead?
    It's just the way jesus blessed me.



    Seriously though, what's special about a specialized bike regarding how it sags compared to a turner? A low pivot is going to make the bikes hang up a little more when hitting things...... That doesn't necessarily translate to 'low bb movement'. Two 5" travel bikes with the same BB measurement, set at 30% sag are going to be sitting in the same place.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Chipmunks run out from under the tires, laser lights turn on and the theme from Stayin Alive plays.


    Why?
    And I thought I was the only one. I upgraded my chipmunks for rabbits and went retro with the disco ball. Seemed more fitting with "Stayin' Alive"

  84. #84
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    I rode a Burner at Outerbike today. It was one of seven bikes I rode this weekend. It was the best bike for the trails in Moab.

    I also rode another 650b bike and did not like it at all.

    The Turner Burner and the Turner Sultan were the best tracking, best climbing and most confidence inspiring bikes I rode at Outerbike.

  85. #85
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    Just out of curiosity did you like the Burner for Moab better than the Sultan? One of these will be my next FS whip. I imagine the Burner as just a red one taller than my 5 spot without the lethargic feel of a 29er....

  86. #86
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    agree

    I also rode the Burner at Outerbike and totally agree,,it was more stable than other 650's and didn't have disconnected feeling of a 29

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by munstro View Post
    Just out of curiosity did you like the Burner for Moab better than the Sultan? One of these will be my next FS whip. I imagine the Burner as just a red one taller than my 5 spot without the lethargic feel of a 29er....
    I like both alot. I prefer the the Sultan. The Burner rolled almost as well and turned a little better. But the way a 29er steamrolls over stuff is important to me for long rides.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    I like both alot. I prefer the the Sultan. The Burner rolled almost as well and turned a little better. But the way a 29er steamrolls over stuff is important to me for long rides.

    In other words , ideally you should own both a 29er and a 650B ! TIG
    " A way to a deep freedom " - Tarja

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    The slacker head angles that have become more popular over the last couple years on bikes that are more trail than enduro racer / All Mountain are certainly hard for us older riders to get our heads around, but getting a chance to actually ride the bikes opens the eyes to a new level of stability. The interweb is a great place to ***** about stuff one does not know about. Of course these new bikes do take a different approach to cornering with an emphasis on countersteering/ hip steering, which is very different than the old HA require. The wider bars also help with this as one can use it to lever the bike down. I know the hard core tree threaders will think that this a set back, and maybe so for some but for most riders the added stability will far outweigh the challenge of learning a slightly new cornering technique.

    If you rode a bike and like it, than you know what to say to those e-whining.

    I really like 67 for the final HA on the Burner, i have ridden them at 66 to 68 and the 67 is the most neutral, none of the choices I tested were 'bad', but the 67 has the best feel As usual I will use a 73 SA. All sizes of Burner get 10mm added to TT when compared to the Spot and Sultan to partly offset the radical shortening of stems that is happening.
    CS will be 17.6" and it keeps the nose down great in rough climbs.

    DT
    The numbers look very good and I think is about time people started realizing that shorter stems with longer TTs are the way to go. Well Gary figured this out a while ago with his Genesis geometry. I am a little concerned about the HA though. I have a 2012 Sultan now which I think is about 69 degrees, Not sure how that translated in trail to a 650b as the fork offset is unknown to me. I will say that with a 51mm offset on the Sultan, it is as slack as I would ever want a bike ( I say that now at least). If I didn't have a TALAS on it, steep climbs would be miserable but as it is, I love the bike.

    I will add that the Rock Shox rear shock could have something to do with the square edge problem. I've never liked the way their shocks have felt to me in that regards.

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    I rode 7 bikes at outerbike, the Burner is the last one I rode, so I had the least energy for it.

    This bike (and other turner's) have no square edge problem. (I rode them with Rockshox front and back).

  91. #91
    Daniel the Dog
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    I find that my DW Link Turner gets hung up on square edge bumps. Regardless, a great bike and I look forward to owning a Burner...when will they come out?

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    I find that my DW Link Turner gets hung up on square edge bumps. Regardless, a great bike and I look forward to owning a Burner...when will they come out?
    If you get a DW bike to hang up where any other suspension design does not you are doing it wrong. If you are saying that some of your trails have tough steps that slow down any suspension design, I will not say another word.

    The axle path that a DW rear end takes is advantages to getting over exactly what you are claiming is a problem.

    I was just at Outerbike and rode DW, CVA, FSR and VPP bikes. DW takes the top spot in this scenario every time.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    I was just at Outerbike and rode DW, CVA, FSR and VPP bikes. DW takes the top spot in this scenario every time.
    .....every time you're not pedaling.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    I find that my DW Link Turner gets hung up on square edge bumps. Regardless, a great bike and I look forward to owning a Burner...when will they come out?
    You're using it wrong.....
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  95. #95
    bump and grind
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post

    The axle path that a DW rear end takes is advantages to getting over exactly what you are claiming is a problem.

    I was just at Outerbike and rode DW, CVA, FSR and VPP bikes. DW takes the top spot in this scenario every time.
    Yup, I agree. Climbing stair step like obstacles (including a set of 3 stair steps in my yard I hit every day) are noticeably easier on my DW spot than on either of my TNT RFXes, Single pivots (Heckler) or FSR's (stumpy). Now a DW Sultan, thats a stair eater.

  96. #96
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    Where's _dw when he's needed? A rearward axle path is also a forward axle path at some point.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    ...I was just at Outerbike and rode DW, CVA, FSR and VPP bikes. DW takes the top spot in this scenario every time.
    What about granny gear climbing? I ride FSR and the only DW bike I've ever demo'd was a Pivot 5.7. In low gear steep climbing in the granny gear the pedal kick back was ridiculous, and from what I've read it seems to be the same with all DW bikes.

    Are Turner's any different or should I just look elsewhere due to my riding style/terrain?

  98. #98
    Now with flavor!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by HubbaMan View Post
    What about granny gear climbing? I ride FSR and the only DW bike I've ever demo'd was a Pivot 5.7. In low gear steep climbing in the granny gear the pedal kick back was ridiculous, and from what I've read it seems to be the same with all DW bikes.

    Are Turner's any different or should I just look elsewhere due to my riding style/terrain?
    If they're sagged correctly, you won't get any pedal feedback on a dw turner (you shouldn't on a pivot either actually).

    The only time I've ever felt any kickback is when the shock is setup way too soft and you try to pedal when the bike is deep in its travel, like in a g-out.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    If they're sagged correctly, you won't get any pedal feedback on a dw turner (you shouldn't on a pivot either actually).

    The only time I've ever felt any kickback is when the shock is setup way too soft and you try to pedal when the bike is deep in its travel, like in a g-out.
    Well that's interesting, thanks!

    The demo dude set the bike up pretty quick so it's quite possible (and likely) that this might be the reason for the feedback I experienced. Now i can just go back to deciding between a Spot or a Burner. With so many 26" bits in the basement, the 650b is a tough sell for me.

  100. #100
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    FWIW, I've got a buddy who rode the burner at outerbike this past weekend. He didn't say he was getting pedal feedback but rather that it just kind of had an initial harshness on the first square edged slap he'd get into. I asked him how they were setup and he said it was at 20% sag. I don't know if that's something different about the burner in particular but my 5 spot rides pretty harsh at 20% sag too.

    So I don't do that.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

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