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Thread: Tubeless hype??

  1. #1
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    Tubeless hype??

    I have just put some UST Panaracer Fire XCs on my flux and filled them with stans (3oz per type).

    put a pin in one of the tyres and it is still burbling air after 20 minutes and several rotations.

    Does it need the extra pressure of my weight to force a seal or something - it doesn't seem to be doing it on its own?

    And the weight added to my flux is noticable - it has gone from 25lbs 10oz (25lbs without pedals) to 26lbs 4 oz, some of which is the UST tyres instead of my Conti Mtn Kings.


  2. #2
    switchback sculptor
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    um, you stabbed you own tire...

    did you shake up the stans really good before adding it to your tire?
    the little gunky bits help fill holes.

    i weigh 225 and haven't had a flat in three years.
    you could probably call me hype on tubeless!


    (btw, panaracers suck)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by erosive
    um, you stabbed you own tire...

    did you shake up the stans really good before adding it to your tire?
    the little gunky bits help fill holes.

    i weigh 225 and haven't had a flat in three years.
    you could probably call me hype on tubeless!


    (btw, panaracers suck)
    Seems to have sealed now after a ride.

    Maybe I need to put some weight on?

    I thought that on the Panaracers - had some Smoke/Cinder (or some name like that) years ago and punctured all the time, but a guy I see on the train to work who rides round here a lot (North Downs, Surrey Hills) loves them, and so does my mate in the Malverns, and I have lost confidence in the Conti after a bad slip on some Edges and the Kings not liking the mud round here much at all.

    I think I made a mistake getting the USTs though - heavy and a lot slower going than the Kings.

  4. #4
    rr
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    Go ride it around the block and then let it sit with the hole facing down so the sealant will fill it in, I haven't run one in awhile but I had good luck with the Fire XC's in UST.

  5. #5
    trail fairy
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    Overhyped maybe, its been around for years now though.

    I don;t bother over 2.3" tires anymore I think the benefits vs hassle are less, especailly with 2ply tires that you can run lower pressures at anyhow and with some smart configurations you can get some lighter weights in those sizes anyhow!

    Anyways my tubeless method

    1: always do at least the day before hand!
    2: Put some water in a bucket and mix up a batch of dish washing liquid until really bubbly, get vigorous.
    3: make sure all tire surfaces and rim are clean no dents etc.
    4: good rim strip, Stans Dt what ever it is
    5: clean valve these get sticky especially with Stans over time.

    Ok mount tire and goo, once on, then apply all that nice soapy stuff all the way around both sides of the rim / tire ya can do this before mounting as well to help a tight tire get onto the rim and settle the bead.

    Then spin the whole wheel on the axle in your hand wobbling from side to side this gets the stans or goo throughout the tire bead on both sides. again do vigorously don't be gentle, just don;t drop ya wheel lol.

    This and the bubbles of liquid should help seal you will see bubbles form at the bead and rim to see where the air is sealing!

    Then inflate with a good footpump to 30psi, from here go asy as it can get easy to over inflate and have tire and goo everywhere, up the pressure until fully sealed and tight, 40-50 psi depending on tire brand this is where it becomes a feel thing some brands can go without warning then its a s h i t mess everywhere and a busted bead, so 50psi max i a good seal at 40 I would settle for that.

    Spin the wheels again in ya hand via the axles then leave over night they will be nice and tightly sealed for the next days ride.

    Just deflate to desired pressure, 25 -30 psi go ride and enjoy Tube less..
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  6. #6
    dwt
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    IMO, Stan's is better for sealing beads than sealing punctures. So, if you are running a full UST set up and you really don't need a bead sealant, use an auto tire sealant which is designed to plug punctures up to 1/4".
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  7. #7
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    i'm tubleless and havent had a flat in over 1600 miles of biking. it may or may not be heavier than tubes but performance and convenience are second to none. i sure as hell wouldnt poke a hole in my tire tho.

  8. #8
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    I have had no problems getting my Panaracer Fire FR and Maxxis High Rollers to seal and hold air. No problem at all.
    But I have twice now pinch flatted the rear High Roller, (Yes the tire) and my 60/40 mixture of Stans/Slime tubeless and Glitter did nothing to seal it up. These holes weren't that big either.
    And before you say that I am running too low pressure well I run my rear @ 36psi.

    Luckily tires are easy to patch back home but cleaning out a flat tire with 2oz of sealant is fu*kin lame.
    I am still weighing the pro's and cons of dealing with tubeless with non ust tires.

    @Scoutcat
    There is questionable convenience to tubeless when running sealant if you have to spend 10 minutes cleaning it out of your tire when it doesn't seal out on the trail.
    It all depends how and where you ride IMO. My wife has flatted about 2 times in 4 years with regular tubes so there isn't much convenience there as well.
    Last edited by wormvine; 04-10-2010 at 09:44 PM.

  9. #9
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    In the year I have run tubeless I have had 4 sidewall tears and a large puncture center of tread that wouldn't seal. In the previous 10 years or so with tubes I only flatted maybe once a year bad enough that I had to patch it to get out. That said, I love tubeless! Just rolls better.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom93R1
    In the year I have run tubeless I have had 4 sidewall tears and a large puncture center of tread that wouldn't seal. In the previous 10 years or so with tubes I only flatted maybe once a year bad enough that I had to patch it to get out. That said, I love tubeless! Just rolls better.
    Where in the hell do you ride where you only get a flat once or twice a year using tubes? But can tear sidewalls and large punctures when tubeless???

  11. #11
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    my wifesbike is a thorn magnet and I lost track of how mant dang flats she's had. Switched her to UST about 800 miles ago and ZERO flats. When I changed out her 1st set of worn out ust's you could feel all the little thorns poking through the inside of the tire. I'm sold and never going back.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt
    IMO, Stan's is better for sealing beads than sealing punctures. So, if you are running a full UST set up and you really don't need a bead sealant, use an auto tire sealant which is designed to plug punctures up to 1/4".
    I will look into that, thanks.

    I am using Stans ZTR355 rims, not UST rims. Initially I thought these tight with the Contis then discovered the need to seat the beads in the centre channel in the rim to loosen them off to the point where you don't need tyre levers.

    Using the same technique with the UST Panaracers needs a tyre lever as they are well tight. I then had to squash the tyre down from the top to coax the beds out of the centre channel to the edges, at which point they sealed straight away.

  13. #13
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    I'm just mixing latex caulk with windex, stans has ammonia and latex, so it's just about the same, but far far cheaper. That way I can also use a lot more product if I feel the need for certain tires (like my 2.8" michelin).

    Otherwise, here in AZ, you will flat with tubeless. You will pinch the tire, you will cut the sidewalls, you will get gashes big enough that can't be sealed.

    At lower elevations, like 4000' and below, the protection from thorns and cactus spines is worth it though. If you aren't riding at those elevations, it's not much of an advantage due to the terrain that will still eventually eat your tire.

    It seems like riding the bike after converting (ghetto-tubeless in my case) really helps to get the tire fully "sealed", but ghetto-tubeless is just that and the tires possibly weren't originally designed to be tubeless. This means that you might need more sealent or you have to ride to get it coated nice and evenly, and even then if I leave the bike for an extended period of time (my RFX) it does leak down some, a shot of air obvioulsy fixes it right up and on a ride it remains fine. My intense/michelin combo on my highline is going great, the RFX has sat for at least a month though and has consequently leaked down.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  14. #14
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Otherwise, here in AZ, you will flat with tubeless. You will pinch the tire, you will cut the sidewalls, you will get gashes big enough that can't be sealed.

    At lower elevations, like 4000' and below, the protection from thorns and cactus spines is worth it though. If you aren't riding at those elevations, it's not much of an advantage due to the terrain that will still eventually eat your tire.
    Maybe not the right forum for this question, but I'm planning on a trip to Sedona this fall. In my quiver, I have one full UST wheelset, rims and tires, and was planning on bringing it. So I suppose I should be OK, but bring tubes along on every ride just in case?
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt
    Maybe not the right forum for this question, but I'm planning on a trip to Sedona this fall. In my quiver, I have one full UST wheelset, rims and tires, and was planning on bringing it. So I suppose I should be OK, but bring tubes along on every ride just in case?
    Yeah, bring a tube or two in case. If you're lucky you won't need it, but most of the tubeless guys around here do carry a tube, and better to have it and possibly not need it than need it and not have it. Also bring something to boot the tire if necessary. You can do a candy/power-bar wrapper in a pinch, but there are better solutions.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  16. #16
    Knollician
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    I'm just mixing latex caulk with windex, stans has ammonia and latex, so it's just about the same, but far far cheaper. That way I can also use a lot more product if I feel the need for certain tires (like my 2.8" michelin).

    Otherwise, here in AZ, you will flat with tubeless. You will pinch the tire, you will cut the sidewalls, you will get gashes big enough that can't be sealed.

    At lower elevations, like 4000' and below, the protection from thorns and cactus spines is worth it though. If you aren't riding at those elevations, it's not much of an advantage due to the terrain that will still eventually eat your tire.

    It seems like riding the bike after converting (ghetto-tubeless in my case) really helps to get the tire fully "sealed", but ghetto-tubeless is just that and the tires possibly weren't originally designed to be tubeless. This means that you might need more sealent or you have to ride to get it coated nice and evenly, and even then if I leave the bike for an extended period of time (my RFX) it does leak down some, a shot of air obvioulsy fixes it right up and on a ride it remains fine. My intense/michelin combo on my highline is going great, the RFX has sat for at least a month though and has consequently leaked down.

    Jayem,

    How is the caulk thing working out? Are you having any issues? Have you had it actually seal any punctures? Seems like an amazingly simple, cheap, and convenient solution for replacing latex. Probably would last longer without drying out as well.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  17. #17
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Also bring something to boot the tire if necessary. You can do a candy/power-bar wrapper in a pinch, but there are better solutions.
    There's this commercial solution - probably worth the cash.

    FWIW, I did a 3 hour ride on a rental last month in Sedona as a "scouting expedition" for my riding buds As you know, the rentals are tubes with slime. No flats, much fun. Results of the scouting expedition: 5 of us will be there next fall. What a gorgeous place! And huge! I also liked that it is more "trail bikey" that "freeridie" as Moab. More work up and across to earn your downhill pleasure. Lucky you.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    Jayem,

    How is the caulk thing working out? Are you having any issues? Have you had it actually seal any punctures? Seems like an amazingly simple, cheap, and convenient solution for replacing latex. Probably would last longer without drying out as well.
    I've been riding it on the highline for a while now, and I'm sure it's sealed up, I see "wet" areas once and a while where I figure it's done just that. I've found a few thorns that are already stuck in the tire, but I just leave them there, so yeah it's doing fine, no complaints. It's one of those things where it if works, you don't mess with it, so I don't exactly have a whole lot of experience or even have a set "ratio" yet, because it's working. The RFX on the other hand leaked down, but I didn't put a rim-strip in the rim (stupid mistake), the front tire is holding air, but the rear leaked all the way down. The thing is that it's sat there for more than a month with no riding, and it's ghetto-tubeless, they are intense tires, so I don't know if that makes a difference, but otherwise I think it's been working fine.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  19. #19
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    Jayem, I run Michelin DH32 and other similar burly tires, how much of sealing goop you put in these? Thanks.

  20. #20
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvette
    Jayem, I run Michelin DH32 and other similar burly tires, how much of sealing goop you put in these? Thanks.
    Yeah, that's the problem, I'm still in the beginning phase, partly because my michelin comp32 is holding air just fine and I didn't really catalog what I did well. What I tried to do was put maybe two-stans-bottles-worth of stuff in my comp32, and it was a ***** to seal the bead given how massive and stiff it is. The thing is that I've had the tire a LONG time (comp32s are one of the best front-DH tires IMO because they take forever to wear out), so it was already riddled with holes and the such. Since I'm doing ghetto-tubeless, I left the tire partially off the rim, emptied probably half a cup of windex in there, a few shots of caulk, then mixed it all up (takes a few minutes to start dissolving well) and then put the bead on and took it to the air compressor. If I was going to do it with a tubeless wheelset or from now on, I'd pre-mix it, put it in a little stans bottle, and empty it in through the schrader valve (with the valve removed of course).

    So sorry, I can guess, and I'd guess half a cup of windex and 3 "shots" of latex caulk?

    Anyways, it's fun to expirment.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  21. #21
    1:18
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    Thanks for the info. Agree with the DH32, they're insanely tough, grippy and durable, the only thing I don't like is the weight (obviously) and somewhat mealow grip in cornerning/offcamber terrain.

    If we'd be talking in Stan's cups, how much do you put in these burly tires? At the moment I have their sealant and cups, not homemade stuff.

  22. #22
    Motion activated
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    I love my comp32, it's the best front tire I've ever used for the Colorado front range.

    It's come time to replace it, but it seems they no longer make it. Where are you guys getting yours?
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  23. #23
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    Chain reaction cycles or other European online stores. FWIW, the C32/DH32 is rebranded with bold new graphics and a fancy name: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=48161

  24. #24
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    Thanks for the link. Are they only available in Europe/UK now? It would end up a rather expensive tire by the time I factored in shipped to the US.

    edit: Is this the same as the comp32? It's listed as a 2.6 now, but the 32 was rather small for a 2.8 so I guess it could be the same tire.

    http://www.michelinbicycletire.com/m...prdescent.view
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  25. #25
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    I guess you should be able to get them in the States too, maybe even easily than here in Europe.

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