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Thread: tnt TESTED

  1. #1
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    tnt TESTED

    Hey fellas!
    We here at Go-Ride bought up a RF6 (6 pack) demo bike too.
    it's a medium with aDHX Coil and a Van 36.

    First off this is just a pre-test since the bike is new and we've only ridden it over the weekend,and i will update soon.It came with a 600 lb spring (way too stiff) and we did not check it till we were up in the mountains-doh! We were too busy fixing the other damaged parts from the dirt demo thrashing.

    OK back to the test.We climbed up 7 miles of middle-to- granny dirt road to acess a wickedly rough boulder strewn DH run.We also had a HL 6 pack with us.This bike is a small with a 400 lb spring so testing was difficult to compare.I did notice that the TNT bike seemed to mush less than the HL bike did while climbing up the road.This was especially noticeable in the granny,where the TNT bike has a little bit of chain torque to cancell out the oscellation of your body bouncing slightly as you pedal.The road got really rough and rocky.The TNT bike was active and conformed to the rock and climed over the terrain without losing momentum.So did the HL bike.Really they felt so similar it is hard to feel the difference.Natrually the spring rate and size come into play too much to be sure,but i think you'd have to own a HL bike and switch to a NTN bike to really know.They are that close.
    Descending,the 600 lb spring kept the rear end up too high in the travel to feel much braking influence.It did feel great over small and big hits and g outs.

    I don't want to get into the details of the ride till we get more time on it,and get it dialed in more.

    I have a close friend who had a medium 6 pack and we are going to do more back to back testing with him this weekend.

    Really i just wanted to let you all know that the real answers are in the works!! So far all looks good in Turner land.
    Krispy




  2. #2
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    Hey krispy, why not simply switch rear-ends back and forth to negate any setup differences. Don't mean to be picky or anything, but if you're gonna do it you might as well do it right. I'd also be interested to know your impressions of the Van36 on the Pack.

  3. #3
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    cool....sounds like Turners may be almost as good as Ventanas now ....almost

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    ... and if we just ...

    good idea in theory,except for re doing the cables,pulling the cranks,etc.The plan is to be able to jump off my buddies bike onto the TNT one and keep going on the trail.
    We will set up both bikes with the same rear shock spring.

    We may try that though.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    cool....sounds like Turners may be almost as good as Ventanas now ....almost

    Yeah,except Ventanas feel squishy in the middle AND the granny due to the ultra low pivot combined with the lower BB.....HA!!
    But the Ventana tandem i am assembling right now is the most beutiful electric blue paint job i have ever seen....

    Anyway,it's funny how on a single pivot bike the bb and pivot location can totally change the feel of the ride.
    The 5 spot has been the example DT has used for his wheelpath video,the 6 pack/RF6 has a higher BB,and the link is not as flat,and runs more sag.Therefore the difference between the HL and TNT is greater on this model.The new bike has a more rearward wheelpath during the 1st half of the travel.Good news to me personally. It's not rearward enough to notice feedback in the granny,but does give it a little oomph for getting up steeps.Once again,personal preferance.

  6. #6
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    Great to see some real world experiences here. I'm also glad to see some impartiality with respect to the reserved judgements.

    I most likely won't be in the market for a new bike for several years, so the debate is pretty moot for me, but at the least, I wished Turner made the new dropouts more aesthetically pleasing like the previous ones were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    cool....sounds like Turners may be almost as good as Ventanas now ....almost
    the new turners may be as good as a kona

  8. #8
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by klimt
    the new turners may be as good as a kona
    C'mon now.....let's not get carried away

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    Unfair

    So you're testing a small pack with a 400# spring and HL vs a medium FB with a 600# spring..... and possible a different fork? Nothing personal here, but I would consider a test like that worthless. Don't bother. Save yourself the trouble.

    The setups are so vastly different that it makes comparisons almost silly. One bike will either be way oversprung or the other will be way undersprung. They may be using different forks......and one frame will not fit correctly if the other fits fine. Forget about HL vs FB.

    The method that Crash mentioned would be very fair. Swap rears. It would keep everything EXACTLY the same, including tires which also make a big difference. It would allow the bike to be correctly sprung.

    Changing the rears should only take a few minutes. I can do it quickly. You are a bike shop....... sheesh. Pulling the cranks is quick. You wouldn't have to change cables since the shifters and brakes would remain the same. It would just cost you a few tie-wraps and would give you a real basis for comparison.

    Heck ..... If someone wants to lend me a TNT rear for my spot, I'll test them. We have a bunch of Spot riders in the area. Many of us ride together frequently. We could have a test day or 2 and get some real input. I wonder if DT would be willing to lend me a TNT rear for a week or 2. I'd do it in a heartbeat. We have medium and large spots here, so with 2 TNT rears, we could use 2 sizes of bike for different sized riders. It may even be possible to do a double blind test, but that may be tough.




    Quote Originally Posted by krispy@go-ride.com
    Hey fellas!
    We here at Go-Ride bought up a RF6 (6 pack) demo bike too.
    it's a medium with aDHX Coil and a Van 36.

    First off this is just a pre-test since the bike is new and we've only ridden it over the weekend,and i will update soon.It came with a 600 lb spring (way too stiff) and we did not check it till we were up in the mountains-doh! We were too busy fixing the other damaged parts from the dirt demo thrashing.

    OK back to the test.We climbed up 7 miles of middle-to- granny dirt road to acess a wickedly rough boulder strewn DH run.We also had a HL 6 pack with us.This bike is a small with a 400 lb spring so testing was difficult to compare.I did notice that the TNT bike seemed to mush less than the HL bike did while climbing up the road.This was especially noticeable in the granny,where the TNT bike has a little bit of chain torque to cancell out the oscellation of your body bouncing slightly as you pedal.The road got really rough and rocky.The TNT bike was active and conformed to the rock and climed over the terrain without losing momentum.So did the HL bike.Really they felt so similar it is hard to feel the difference.Natrually the spring rate and size come into play too much to be sure,but i think you'd have to own a HL bike and switch to a NTN bike to really know.They are that close.
    Descending,the 600 lb spring kept the rear end up too high in the travel to feel much braking influence.It did feel great over small and big hits and g outs.

    I don't want to get into the details of the ride till we get more time on it,and get it dialed in more.

    I have a close friend who had a medium 6 pack and we are going to do more back to back testing with him this weekend.

    Really i just wanted to let you all know that the real answers are in the works!! So far all looks good in Turner land.
    Krispy




  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    So you're testing a small pack with a 400# spring and HL vs a medium FB with a 600# spring..... and possible a different fork? Nothing personal here, but I would consider a test like that worthless. Don't bother. Save yourself the trouble.

    The setups are so vastly different that it makes comparisons almost silly. One bike will either be way oversprung or the other will be way undersprung. They may be using different forks......and one frame will not fit correctly if the other fits fine. Forget about HL vs FB.

    The method that Crash mentioned would be very fair. Swap rears. It would keep everything EXACTLY the same, including tires which also make a big difference. It would allow the bike to be correctly sprung.

    Changing the rears should only take a few minutes. I can do it quickly. You are a bike shop....... sheesh. Pulling the cranks is quick. You wouldn't have to change cables since the shifters and brakes would remain the same. It would just cost you a few tie-wraps and would give you a real basis for comparison.

    Heck ..... If someone wants to lend me a TNT rear for my spot, I'll test them. We have a bunch of Spot riders in the area. Many of us ride together frequently. We could have a test day or 2 and get some real input. I wonder if DT would be willing to lend me a TNT rear for a week or 2. I'd do it in a heartbeat. We have medium and large spots here, so with 2 TNT rears, we could use 2 sizes of bike for different sized riders. It may even be possible to do a double blind test, but that may be tough.
    what difference does testing both designs together make ? faux bar is the new best thing dt says so.

  11. #11
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    I've been running a 500lb spring on my old rfx, romic and RC, I'm about 150lbs loaded down. Trying to update the rfx to the new tnt version along with the dhx coil. What weight rider is your small pack with the 400 spring set up for?

    Hopefully I'll be able to do some back to back comparisons as well, to keep it fair I should probably run the new dhx on the old rfx first.

  12. #12
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    wow-i thought i was pretty explicit in saying that this was a first ride pre test and more would follow.
    True this test (so far)is wothless- i just was getting started.I just wanted to let the people here know that someone was truing to sort this out,not expecting people to say that this test was bunk and Konas are just as good.I have only been posting on the MFG boards lately since the DH board is so pathetic.Let's let this thread be fresh and not re hashed crap from the last 3 weeks.

    Why dont YOU go and buy a new rear end and tell me how it works.

    Anyway,back to positive thinking,We WILL be testing th bike with the right spring,testing it back to back with HL and most likely test this bike with the HL swingarm.

    More to come as soon as i get the bike back from a team rider who is out riding it right now.

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    I did notice that the TNT bike seemed to mush less than the HL bike did while climbing up the road.This was especially noticeable in the granny,where the TNT bike has a little bit of chain torque to cancell out the oscellation of your body bouncing slightly as you pedal


    Also glad to hear of some actual riding of the two, but it seems like if the TNT was less "mush" would'nt that have to do with the over sprung shock more than anything? i think that with the proper spring & size it would be a more accurate comparison & also a more enjoyable ride for you lucky guys that were able to nab one of these

  14. #14
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    Thanks Crispy for the info. Looking forward to the review.
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 10-25-2005 at 01:47 PM. Reason: It looks like it's been covered.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayce
    I did notice that the TNT bike seemed to mush less than the HL bike did while climbing up the road.This was especially noticeable in the granny,where the TNT bike has a little bit of chain torque to cancell out the oscellation of your body bouncing slightly as you pedal


    Also glad to hear of some actual riding of the two, but it seems like if the TNT was less "mush" would'nt that have to do with the over sprung shock more than anything? i think that with the proper spring & size it would be a more accurate comparison & also a more enjoyable ride for you lucky guys that were able to nab one of these
    Yes this is true.
    Maybe i should start over to be more precise.
    3 of us riding,a 140 lb rider on my left ridin a HL bike with a 400 lb spring.
    A 180 lb ride on my right on a TNT bike with a 600 lb spring,50 lbs too form,but within reason.Both bikes with 3 clicks Propedal on DHX coil shocks.Both with 6" forks providing similar geo.

    I ride between the 2 and watch their bikes climb over rocks and compare.

    In the middle ring the HL bike is moving a couple mm's at the shock with each pedal stroke. The ride can't feel it and doesn't know it is moving and says he can't feel it.The TNT bike is moving a little less but nearly the same. With a couple clicks more Propedal the bobbing stops.The riders notice it's a little easier climbing now.

    in the granny grear the HL bike keeps working the same way.

    The TNT bike in the granny in not really bobbing much,even with less PP.It does still move over rocks.

    So far this is the only real testing that is worthwhile.

    I'm sorry that i even mentioned anything else.

  16. #16
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    Krispy -

    You are a star, and I am a big fan of your riding.

    Briefly, I wanted to comment and agree with you that the new rearward axle path is a plus.

    The thing that puzzles me most is that the brake caliper angle wrt to the ground changes as the suspension cycles. I'm curious to hear what subjective effect this has in your testing, under maximum braking conditions.

    My guess, not having ridden a TNT frame, is that the difference in feel will be negligible - that the rest of the system will just equilibrate slightly differently.

    Best,

    Tommy

  17. #17
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    The 400 spring felt great to me(on a DHX) i'm 130 lbs.It's a little soft for the owner,he's goin to bump up a little bit.
    400 comes stock on a small,500 on a medium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krispy@go-ride.com

    Why dont YOU go and buy a new rear end and tell me how it works.
    Actually, I'm working on that as we type.

    I hope your tests go well.

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    thanks krisp, it's been a tough time here in the forum lately, seems to be a influx of negative energy. Don't understand why, the crew at Turner and the dealers have always been honest and dedicated. Online personality clashes are a bummer, but the true profesionals always shine through.

    It's all about respect.

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    Krispy,

    Thanks for the feedback. I'm looking forward to hearing about how the new Pack rides as you get it sorted out.

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    Thanks for making the effort man...

    Quote Originally Posted by krispy@go-ride.com
    Hey fellas!
    We here at Go-Ride bought up a RF6 (6 pack) demo bike too.
    it's a medium with aDHX Coil and a Van 36.

    First off this is just a pre-test since the bike is new and we've only ridden it over the weekend,and i will update soon.It came with a 600 lb spring (way too stiff) and we did not check it till we were up in the mountains-doh! We were too busy fixing the other damaged parts from the dirt demo thrashing.

    OK back to the test.We climbed up 7 miles of middle-to- granny dirt road to acess a wickedly rough boulder strewn DH run.We also had a HL 6 pack with us.This bike is a small with a 400 lb spring so testing was difficult to compare.I did notice that the TNT bike seemed to mush less than the HL bike did while climbing up the road.This was especially noticeable in the granny,where the TNT bike has a little bit of chain torque to cancell out the oscellation of your body bouncing slightly as you pedal.The road got really rough and rocky.The TNT bike was active and conformed to the rock and climed over the terrain without losing momentum.So did the HL bike.Really they felt so similar it is hard to feel the difference.Natrually the spring rate and size come into play too much to be sure,but i think you'd have to own a HL bike and switch to a NTN bike to really know.They are that close.
    Descending,the 600 lb spring kept the rear end up too high in the travel to feel much braking influence.It did feel great over small and big hits and g outs.

    I don't want to get into the details of the ride till we get more time on it,and get it dialed in more.

    I have a close friend who had a medium 6 pack and we are going to do more back to back testing with him this weekend.

    Really i just wanted to let you all know that the real answers are in the works!! So far all looks good in Turner land.
    Krispy




    Krispy
    Thanks for trying to give us the gen on the two designs krispy. You've done a lot more than the rest of these trolls have under their bridges and I for one appreciate the effort. Ignore the flames, get a fireproof suit before you post next time, and remember that the only time the troll wins is in the Shrek movies...

  22. #22
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    Thanks for the post, any info is appreciated!

  23. #23
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    Thanks Guys.
    How silly is it to get upset about internet arguments!?!
    And i almost got sucked in.

    Oh well,i'll log off and ride my 575 home now. hehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    It may even be possible to do a double blind test, but that may be tough.
    A double blind test would be tough. Both the rider and the person giving him the bike to ride would have to be "blinded" as to which bike was which.
    Registered Dietitian, Cycling Coach, Ascend Nutrition and Coaching

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  25. #25
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    Thanks krispy, I fully understood your points and will be waiting for your new update tests eagerly. I like all the extra info your feeding us like an order of "extra krispy" please!

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    Double Blind Test

    I'm not sure I'd be up for that. I did a single blind test on a gap jump I endoed back in June and my neck and wrists still haven't recovered.
    Everybody dies, but not everyone lives

  27. #27
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    Good stuff Krispy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero
    Krispy -


    The thing that puzzles me most is that the brake caliper angle wrt to the ground changes as the suspension cycles. I'm curious to hear what subjective effect this has in your testing, under maximum braking conditions.



    Tommy
    it should not change.. this pic might clear yr mind..
    Attached Images Attached Images

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by klimt
    the new turners may be as good as a kona

    Crap. Now I need to come up with new material.



    I got nothin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Actually, I'm working on that as we type.
    Why would anyone in their right mind be intyerested in a comparison test done by a decrepit old whiner lacking in fitness, skills, and sense?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by reality czech
    Woof, woof, Grrrr, Bark woof!
    I see the Temporary Trolls are warming up for Halloween.
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  32. #32
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    this is bound to be great reading weather its good or bad news for the new rear. personally, i thank you and yer team of testers for making the effort. its obvious your working to get the bugs out of a difficut test so some real anwsers will make themselves know to those who care to read them. id stand and applaud but a 11 hour day in the shop prevents me from doin that.
    No, I'm NOT back!

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    Quote Originally Posted by reality czech
    Why would anyone in their right mind be intyerested in a comparison test done by a decrepit old whiner lacking in fitness, skills, and sense?
    Let's see. You joined MTBR today.

    What..... No political humor? You make me laugh, again. Thank for the humor.

    Get a life. You're pathetic.

  34. #34
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    I agree with your photo, the suspension will not freeze up, as you say.

    However, when the caliper changes angle with respect to the wheel, both in reference to the wheel's point of contact with the ground, something happens.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobflyer
    it should not change.. this pic might clear yr mind..
    Huh? What is that supposed to mean?
    <><

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Let's see. You joined MTBR today.

    What..... No political humor? You make me laugh, again. Thank for the humor.

    Get a life. You're pathetic.
    What does political humor have to do with your unsuitability for doing a comparison between the two frames? Let's just stick to bikes, ok old man?Now back to the question why would anyone want to see a comparison done by the likes of you?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck
    thanks krisp, it's been a tough time here in the forum lately, seems to be a influx of negative energy.
    Negative energy??! Not on the Turner forum. I thought an influx of negative energy was what made Ellsworths 110% efficient - kind of like an anti-matter drive, in reverse...or something. There now; the balance in the Force has been restored - back to the good ol' days of tormenting TE.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    I see the Temporary Trolls are warming up for Halloween.
    Another one added to the Ignore list. I love that feature

    btw..... your tire is going out to you in the morning!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Another one added to the Ignore list. I love that feature

    btw..... your tire is going out to you in the morning!
    I'm sure everyone is interested in an update on that fellow's tire but let's get back to the question. Why would anyone beinterested in a bike comparison that is done by an old unskilled wretch like you?Really, wouldn't a comp done by someone who rides well and can actually notice differences betwenn frames be much more valuable?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    this is bound to be great reading weather its good or bad news for the new rear. personally, i thank you and yer team of testers for making the effort. its obvious your working to get the bugs out of a difficut test so some real anwsers will make themselves know to those who care to read them. id stand and applaud but a 11 hour day in the shop prevents me from doin that.

    Only 11? (says the retired guy)

  41. #41
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    and 10 more today. trainin the new guy so i can go on vacation and ride my ass off in az! weeeeeee! back off with the retiree braggin stuff pal or ill chop the legs off yer rocking chair. see if i wont! hehehe
    No, I'm NOT back!

  42. #42
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    Don't listen...

    Quote Originally Posted by krispy@go-ride.com
    Thanks Guys.
    How silly is it to get upset about internet arguments!?!
    And i almost got sucked in.

    Oh well,i'll log off and ride my 575 home now. hehe
    Keep going Krisp, just do the tests as you see fit, and if others have requests for doing tests with changed rear ends and springs, do them after if you have the inclination and time. You are doing yomen's work here, as a dealer of "faux" and "HL" designs, your insights would be fair.

  43. #43
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    No good No news

    Well unfortunately it's pouring rain and snowing above 8000'.We went out with the dualing 6 packs last night hoping to beat the storm,and rode in the dark and the rain.Going slow in the dark with water all over your glasses is a poor way to get more testing in other than that it kept me off my ass in the wet leaves covering the muddy trail.Lots of mud clearance is so nice,once again no new news there.

    More rain coming all weekend.

    Otherwise,a few more people have been out on the bike,and they all have said how much fun the bike is,and how it's the sweetest 6" heavy duty trail bike they've been on.No new news there! More reinforcement that HL or not this bike is a keeper.

    Hopefully soon more real testing will continue.

  44. #44
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    Thread Hijack

    Screw the HL vs. TNT comparison, Krispy. So far, nothing indicates that the change is a deal breaker.

    What I want to know is when is the RF6 vs. Delerium comparo coming?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo
    Screw the HL vs. TNT comparison, Krispy. So far, nothing indicates that the change is a deal breaker.

    What I want to know is when is the RF6 vs. Delerium comparo coming?


    Awwwwwwww, now were talking, add a La Bruja, Specialized SX trail, and maybe a Nomad, that would be some good reading!

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumstix
    Awwwwwwww, now were talking, add a La Bruja, Specialized SX trail, and maybe a Nomad, that would be some good reading!
    Agree, add to the list an Intense 6.6, Ells moment......
    Hey has anyone ridden a NICOLAY???

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relayden
    Agree, add to the list an Intense 6.6, Ells moment......
    Hey has anyone ridden a NICOLAY???
    I ride a NICOLAI...if that's what you meant. Helius ST.

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